Comments on: Just A Mess http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/ Covering the MLB with a focus on the Toronto Blue Jays Wed, 30 May 2012 13:18:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: Thomas http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70603 Thomas Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:05:50 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70603 MW: I think “finding a way to win” is a myth, created by media types over the years as part of the old-time effort to build athletes into super-human and heroes, neither of which things they are, much like the myth of the “clutch hitter”. If good teams could actually find ways to win, they would win a LOT more often than they do. Remember, a 90-win team loses four out of every nine games it plays. Mike the concept of a team that consistantly finds ways to win is absoultely non fictional. This concept often speaks to a Well managed team of extrodinary, unthinkable coaching and playing talent like Phil Jackson, Micheal Jordan and the Bulls , Or Glen Sather Wayne Grexsky and the oilers, Pat Riley Magic and the lakers etc. The Object of greatness does not only exsits within the atomspere of the basketbal court, ice rink or field but also on paper in the board room and in classroms. These such humans beings have been blessed with the ability to always perform the unthinkable and the unimaginable in whatever it is they do. MW: You're talking about the greatest of the greatest in their respective sports. MW: I think “finding a way to win” is a myth, created by media types over the years as part of the old-time effort to build athletes into super-human and heroes, neither of which things they are, much like the myth of the “clutch hitter”. If good teams could actually find ways to win, they would win a LOT more often than they do. Remember, a 90-win team loses four out of every nine games it plays.

Mike the concept of a team that consistantly finds ways to win is absoultely non fictional. This concept often speaks to a Well managed team of extrodinary, unthinkable coaching and playing talent like Phil Jackson, Micheal Jordan and the Bulls , Or Glen Sather Wayne Grexsky and the oilers, Pat Riley Magic and the lakers etc. The Object of greatness does not only exsits within the atomspere of the basketbal court, ice rink or field but also on paper in the board room and in classroms. These such humans beings have been blessed with the ability to always perform the unthinkable and the unimaginable in whatever it is they do.

MW: You’re talking about the greatest of the greatest in their respective sports.

]]> By: Doug D http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70585 Doug D Sun, 29 Apr 2012 02:10:59 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70585 I did use the adjective "vague" intentionally, meaning he didn't make much of an effort. Vain would work too, since he was not successful in catching the ball. MW: I have never seen the word "vague" used in that context. I did use the adjective “vague” intentionally, meaning he didn’t make much of an effort. Vain would work too, since he was not successful in catching the ball.

MW: I have never seen the word “vague” used in that context.

]]> By: Joe http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70583 Joe Sun, 29 Apr 2012 02:02:15 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70583 Mike, I don't think "ways to win" is much of a myth. Mostly, it involves a dangerous offense with consistent contributions, and a reliable bullpen. The latter keeps you in games, and throws fewer of them away. The former takes advantage of some of those chances and converts them into wins. Right now, the Jays' bullpen is not reliable, and our offense is anything but consistent. Indeed, it has only been tolerable because of a higher than normal rate for runners in scoring position. Which tends to revert to the mean. It will still take until the All-Star break or so to figure out where we may need to cut bait on the offensive side (Lind is definitely in focus there as one possibility, as AA has acknowledged), and also to get a better sense of which parts of the bullpen are OK/ not. Of course, bullpens are notoriously chancy things at the best of times, which makes it a difficult evaluation. But that's why they pay AA the money they do. MW: I don't want to debate semantics, but that's not what "finding a way to win" means. What you describe is "building a winning team". Mike, I don’t think “ways to win” is much of a myth. Mostly, it involves a dangerous offense with consistent contributions, and a reliable bullpen. The latter keeps you in games, and throws fewer of them away. The former takes advantage of some of those chances and converts them into wins.

Right now, the Jays’ bullpen is not reliable, and our offense is anything but consistent. Indeed, it has only been tolerable because of a higher than normal rate for runners in scoring position. Which tends to revert to the mean.

It will still take until the All-Star break or so to figure out where we may need to cut bait on the offensive side (Lind is definitely in focus there as one possibility, as AA has acknowledged), and also to get a better sense of which parts of the bullpen are OK/ not. Of course, bullpens are notoriously chancy things at the best of times, which makes it a difficult evaluation. But that’s why they pay AA the money they do.

MW: I don’t want to debate semantics, but that’s not what “finding a way to win” means. What you describe is “building a winning team”.

]]> By: Joe http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70581 Joe Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:27:21 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70581 It is often said of good teams that they "find a way to win." I'll suggest to you that some of the negativity you're getting from callers is because they see a team that seems to find ways to lose. It's early in the season, and could still turn around. It's also true that getting very good starting pitching is a hopeful sign for the future. But the fans are going to remain unhappy until they see a team that seems to find ways to win. We aren't there yet. It's OK to acknowledge that. Even as you also stay that knowing what needs to be fixed, or whether the team can find a way to fix it themselves, is going to take until at least the All-Star break. So, both you and they are right - and all we can do at this point is grab some popcorn, pull up a chair, and see... MW: I think "finding a way to win" is a myth, created by media types over the years as part of the old-time effort to build athletes into super-human and heroes, neither of which things they are, much like the myth of the "clutch hitter". If good teams could actually find ways to win, they would win a LOT more often than they do. Remember, a 90-win team loses four out of every nine games it plays. It is often said of good teams that they “find a way to win.” I’ll suggest to you that some of the negativity you’re getting from callers is because they see a team that seems to find ways to lose.

It’s early in the season, and could still turn around. It’s also true that getting very good starting pitching is a hopeful sign for the future. But the fans are going to remain unhappy until they see a team that seems to find ways to win.

We aren’t there yet. It’s OK to acknowledge that.

Even as you also stay that knowing what needs to be fixed, or whether the team can find a way to fix it themselves, is going to take until at least the All-Star break. So, both you and they are right – and all we can do at this point is grab some popcorn, pull up a chair, and see…

MW: I think “finding a way to win” is a myth, created by media types over the years as part of the old-time effort to build athletes into super-human and heroes, neither of which things they are, much like the myth of the “clutch hitter”. If good teams could actually find ways to win, they would win a LOT more often than they do. Remember, a 90-win team loses four out of every nine games it plays.

]]> By: I Ellyn http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70580 I Ellyn Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:39:26 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70580 Thank goodness there are still 142 games left. So if the Jays go 86-56 over the next 142 games, they are very likely to make the post-season. This is only possible if JoeyBats' and AL26's lumber to wake up from their slumber. Thank goodness there are still 142 games left. So if the Jays go 86-56 over the next 142 games, they are very likely to make the post-season. This is only possible if JoeyBats’ and AL26′s lumber to wake up from their slumber.

]]> By: Jeff S. http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70578 Jeff S. Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:24:31 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70578 The media, of course, focussed on the obvious - Lawrie's throw, Arencibia's throw, and the hits given up by the relief pitchers. You have touched on something not mentioned on TV or in the newspapers, namely John Farrell's decisions. Managers are often second guessed with reference to pitching changes, and I have disagreed with some of Farrell's decisions in this area, but no one can predict when a good pitcher will have an "off night" (and make the manager look bad), or when a mediocre pitcher will impersonate Cy Young (and make the manager look like a genius), so I will reserve my comments for something that is far more predictable (and that you have hinted at, but not explicitly stated). I watched every regular season Blue Jay game last year (either in person or on TV), and I watched every spring training game in Dunedin this March and early April. I think I can give a very accurate evaluation of Rajai Davis. He is a mediocre hitter and a mediocre fielder, but is one of the best base runners the Blue Jays have every had. (The only one who definitely would be considered a better base runner was Rickey Henderson, but he is just barely an ex-Blue Jay since he only played 44 games with us during a 25 year major league career. Besides, while Henderson was better at stealing bases, as far as scoring from second on a single with two out is concerned, Davis would beat Henderson every time.) I don't understand why John Farrell has so badly misused Davis. Last night, when Arencibia was on second and the score was tied 3-3 late in the game, I said to my wife "For sure, Farrell will put Davis in as a pinch runner because this type of situation is the reason Davis is on the team". Having mapped out my managerial strategy for the rest of the game, I added "And Mathis will catch in the 9th inning, which is perfect because he's a better defensive catcher than Arencibia anyway". As you know, I was wrong (as usual). Arencibia stayed in, and was thrown out in a very close play at the plate. (He might have beaten the tag by a finger or two, but Davis would have been high-fiving in the dugout before Ichiro's throw reached the plate.) Not only would the Arencibia/Davis run have given us a three run lead, but the inning would have continued with runners on first and third. Also, while we can't be 100% certain, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the more experienced Mathis (if he were catching in the 9th inning) would even have made a pickoff attempt at first, let alone thrown the ball into deep right field. Farrell's misuse of Davis didn't stop in the top of the 9th inning. In the bottom of the inning, with two out, nobody on, and Encarnacion at the plate, Farrell had Davis in the on-deck circle, presumably to bat for Thames because a left-hander was pitching. Now, Thames was relatively hot on Thursday night, and had been red hot so far in the game (3 hits in 4 at bats including a home run), so I would not have pinch hit for him anyway (even against a left-hander), but using Davis in this role (for which he is poorly suited) would have eliminated him from a pinch running role later in the game (for which he is superbly suited). Since Encarnacion didn't get on base, Davis didn't pinch hit, and thus Davis was still available to pinch run in extra innings, or so I foolishly thought! To my utter disbelief, Farrell (in what could only have been a moment of madness) sent Davis into left field as a defensive replacement in the top of the tenth. First of all, Davis is no better defensively than Thames is. Secondly, Davis was now not available as a pinch runner should a pinch running situation arise. Thirdly, Thames, our best offensive player in the game, was now no longer in the game. Since the Mariners scored four runs in the top of the 10th, it no longer mattered, but suppose they had only scored one run (a much more likely scenario), and we had a chance for a comeback in the bottom of the 10th. Who did Farrell think would be pitching for the Mariners? It would, of course, be their closer Brandon League who is right-handed (and actually pitched in the bottom of the 10th anyway, even though it wasn't a save situation). The only even remote possible excuse I can think of for what appears to be gross stupidity on the part of John Farrell is that Thames somehow got injured at the end of the top of the 9th inning (and this mysterious injury was not noticed or reported by anyone). If this remote possibility was the case, then Farrell should have replaced Thames with Ben Francisco who is right handed like Davis, but is a slightly better hitter than Davis, and a considerably better left fielder than Davis. This, of course, would have left Davis still available for pinch-running should another opportunity have arisen. Do you have any explanation for Farrell's misuse of Davis? Other than possibly premature senility, I am at a loss to explain it. MW: Using words like "stupidity" and "senility" don't help your cause at all. You can make a very rational and reasoned argument without resorting to those kinds of insults, and you almost did. Your other mistake is in assuming that Davis and Thames are equals defensively, which isn't the case at all, and that Francisco is a better left fielder than Davis, which is also false. As well, Davis wasn't sent into left field as a defensive replacement in the top of the 10th, nor was he on-deck in the 9th to pinch-hit. He had been inserted in the game in the 9th for defense, with the Blue Jays up 5-3, after Thames had homered, which was the correct move. The media, of course, focussed on the obvious – Lawrie’s throw, Arencibia’s throw, and the hits given up by the relief pitchers. You have touched on something not mentioned on TV or in the newspapers, namely John Farrell’s decisions. Managers are often second guessed with reference to pitching changes, and I have disagreed with some of Farrell’s decisions in this area, but no one can predict when a good pitcher will have an “off night” (and make the manager look bad), or when a mediocre pitcher will impersonate Cy Young (and make the manager look like a genius), so I will reserve my comments for something that is far more predictable (and that you have hinted at, but not explicitly stated). I watched every regular season Blue Jay game last year (either in person or on TV), and I watched every spring training game in Dunedin this March and early April. I think I can give a very accurate evaluation of Rajai Davis. He is a mediocre hitter and a mediocre fielder, but is one of the best base runners the Blue Jays have every had. (The only one who definitely would be considered a better base runner was Rickey Henderson, but he is just barely an ex-Blue Jay since he only played 44 games with us during a 25 year major league career. Besides, while Henderson was better at stealing bases, as far as scoring from second on a single with two out is concerned, Davis would beat Henderson every time.) I don’t understand why John Farrell has so badly misused Davis. Last night, when Arencibia was on second and the score was tied 3-3 late in the game, I said to my wife “For sure, Farrell will put Davis in as a pinch runner because this type of situation is the reason Davis is on the team”. Having mapped out my managerial strategy for the rest of the game, I added “And Mathis will catch in the 9th inning, which is perfect because he’s a better defensive catcher than Arencibia anyway”. As you know, I was wrong (as usual). Arencibia stayed in, and was thrown out in a very close play at the plate. (He might have beaten the tag by a finger or two, but Davis would have been high-fiving in the dugout before Ichiro’s throw reached the plate.) Not only would the Arencibia/Davis run have given us a three run lead, but the inning would have continued with runners on first and third. Also, while we can’t be 100% certain, it’s extraordinarily unlikely that the more experienced Mathis (if he were catching in the 9th inning) would even have made a pickoff attempt at first, let alone thrown the ball into deep right field. Farrell’s misuse of Davis didn’t stop in the top of the 9th inning. In the bottom of the inning, with two out, nobody on, and Encarnacion at the plate, Farrell had Davis in the on-deck circle, presumably to bat for Thames because a left-hander was pitching. Now, Thames was relatively hot on Thursday night, and had been red hot so far in the game (3 hits in 4 at bats including a home run), so I would not have pinch hit for him anyway (even against a left-hander), but using Davis in this role (for which he is poorly suited) would have eliminated him from a pinch running role later in the game (for which he is superbly suited). Since Encarnacion didn’t get on base, Davis didn’t pinch hit, and thus Davis was still available to pinch run in extra innings, or so I foolishly thought! To my utter disbelief, Farrell (in what could only have been a moment of madness) sent Davis into left field as a defensive replacement in the top of the tenth. First of all, Davis is no better defensively than Thames is. Secondly, Davis was now not available as a pinch runner should a pinch running situation arise. Thirdly, Thames, our best offensive player in the game, was now no longer in the game. Since the Mariners scored four runs in the top of the 10th, it no longer mattered, but suppose they had only scored one run (a much more likely scenario), and we had a chance for a comeback in the bottom of the 10th. Who did Farrell think would be pitching for the Mariners? It would, of course, be their closer Brandon League who is right-handed (and actually pitched in the bottom of the 10th anyway, even though it wasn’t a save situation). The only even remote possible excuse I can think of for what appears to be gross stupidity on the part of John Farrell is that Thames somehow got injured at the end of the top of the 9th inning (and this mysterious injury was not noticed or reported by anyone). If this remote possibility was the case, then Farrell should have replaced Thames with Ben Francisco who is right handed like Davis, but is a slightly better hitter than Davis, and a considerably better left fielder than Davis. This, of course, would have left Davis still available for pinch-running should another opportunity have arisen. Do you have any explanation for Farrell’s misuse of Davis? Other than possibly premature senility, I am at a loss to explain it.

MW: Using words like “stupidity” and “senility” don’t help your cause at all. You can make a very rational and reasoned argument without resorting to those kinds of insults, and you almost did. Your other mistake is in assuming that Davis and Thames are equals defensively, which isn’t the case at all, and that Francisco is a better left fielder than Davis, which is also false. As well, Davis wasn’t sent into left field as a defensive replacement in the top of the 10th, nor was he on-deck in the 9th to pinch-hit. He had been inserted in the game in the 9th for defense, with the Blue Jays up 5-3, after Thames had homered, which was the correct move.

]]> By: Ben http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70572 Ben Sat, 28 Apr 2012 17:03:10 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70572 Two comments I heard yesterday: "You’re not a fan if you only love a team when they win." (comment on this blog). "There's no evidence anybody wants to talk about the Raptors" - Bob McCown (or words very close to that effect). I think what that means is, a) A lot of fans need to learn how to enjoy every game, not just the 10-1 blowouts in our favour. There was 8 and 2/3rds of good entertainment yesterday for a minor amount of suckage. The Baltimore games were all close - I got my money's worth. b) When the fans stop calling into moan and complain, that's probably when the Blue Jays organisation needs to start worrying. There's a lot of 'passion' out there this year. Unfortunately 'passion' in a sporting context sounds a lot like a load of whingeing cry-babies most of the time. Two comments I heard yesterday:

“You’re not a fan if you only love a team when they win.” (comment on this blog).

“There’s no evidence anybody wants to talk about the Raptors” – Bob McCown (or words very close to that effect).

I think what that means is, a) A lot of fans need to learn how to enjoy every game, not just the 10-1 blowouts in our favour. There was 8 and 2/3rds of good entertainment yesterday for a minor amount of suckage. The Baltimore games were all close – I got my money’s worth.

b) When the fans stop calling into moan and complain, that’s probably when the Blue Jays organisation needs to start worrying.

There’s a lot of ‘passion’ out there this year. Unfortunately ‘passion’ in a sporting context sounds a lot like a load of whingeing cry-babies most of the time.

]]> By: Doug D http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70571 Doug D Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:45:39 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70571 When Arencibia overthrew first base, a fan in RF made a vague attempt to grab the ball while it was in play. I've been watching the Jays since mid 1980's and I don't think I've ever seen a fan interference call on a thrown ball. Have you? MW: Vain, and no, I don't think I have. When Arencibia overthrew first base, a fan in RF made a vague attempt to grab the ball while it was in play. I’ve been watching the Jays since mid 1980′s and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fan interference call on a thrown ball. Have you?

MW: Vain, and no, I don’t think I have.

]]> By: irrational fans http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70570 irrational fans Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:09:42 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70570 Jays Talk is starting to sound like open lines at Coast to Coast AM. Don't let them get to you Mike. Facts matter. Jays Talk is starting to sound like open lines at Coast to Coast AM.
Don’t let them get to you Mike. Facts matter.

]]> By: Bert http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2012/04/28/just-a-mess/#comment-70569 Bert Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:14:35 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/?p=1501#comment-70569 Jays-10-10 record .. same as Tigers .. 1/2 up on Boston .. Look at Angels - 6-14 and Phillies 9-11. It should be an interesting season . Bautista may heat up soon . Plus Snider is almost ready ..Should Jays bring him up? MW: Snider hurt his wrist on Thursday night and will miss at least a week. Jays-10-10 record .. same as Tigers .. 1/2 up on Boston .. Look at Angels – 6-14 and Phillies 9-11.

It should be an interesting season . Bautista may heat up soon .

Plus Snider is almost ready ..Should Jays bring him up?

MW: Snider hurt his wrist on Thursday night and will miss at least a week.

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