8:00 PM Eastern
They said it couldn’t be done. Heck, I said it couldn’t be done. But it has been. Vernon Wells has been traded.
I can’t tell you how many times I went on the air this season and said that, even with a successful 2010 under his belt, Wells was untradeable without the Blue Jays picking up a massive amount of money, but there were the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, looking to get something done after missing out on Carl Crawford and Adrian Beltre, among others. The Halos will stick Vernon in centrefield, and in the middle of their line-up, as they try to regain what was their rightful place atop the A.L. West standings.
This is a deal that the Angels wanted to make a few years ago. Remember, the hottest rumour right before Wells signed his seven-year, $126 million contract was that J.P. Ricciardi had a terrific offer on the table from the Halos, but trading Wells would have been seen by the fans as another indicator that the Jays were becoming the New Expos, after they’d made a piddling offer to Carlos Delgado a year or two before.
In return, the Jays get Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera. Napoli has big-time power and crushes left-handed pitching, but his catching deficiencies are such that Angels skipper Mike Scioscia never wanted to give him a real opportunity behind the plate with Jeff Mathis around. He played a lot of first base after Kendry Morales went down with a broken ankle, and could fit nicely into a platoon there with Adam Lind this season, if that’s how the Jays choose to go. Napoli can also catch a couple of days a week, behind J.P. Arencibia, and do some DHing, as well.
The 29 year-old is coming off his career high in home runs (26) and doubles (24), but a career-low in OBP (.316), and his batting average and slugging percentage were lower than they’d been since his rookie year of 2006. Even with the overall weak numbers though, his OPS was still better than the league average, and he raked lefties to the tune of .305/.399/.567.
Napoli is still under control for two more years, and he filed for arbitration with the Angels, submitting a demand of $6.1 million. The Angels countered with an offer of $5.3 million, a number that the Blue Jays are now stuck with. It’s expected the Jays will try to sign Napoli to a multi-year contract.
As for Juan Rivera, he’s a 33 year-old, strong-armed corner outfielder who is just OK. He doesn’t get on base particularly well, nor does he have a whole lot of power. Rivera is going into the final season of a three-year, $12.75 million deal, and he’ll make $5.25 million this year before becoming a free agent. Alex Anthopoulos is familiar with Rivera from his days with the Expos, so I’m not sure if he’s a guy the Jays really wanted or if he was just thrown in there to balance the money, as Edwin Encarnacion was in the Scott Rolen deal.
So what does this mean? Well, it means that it’s a new era in Blue Jay land. A guy who has been a Blue Jay ever since he was a teenager is gone. As much as people got on Wells for not living up to the massive contract, his name is all over the Jays’ all-time record book – in the top 5 in almost every category. He spent parts of a dozen seasons in Toronto, the last nine as the everyday centrefielder and usual third- or fourth-place hitter. Some fans will celebrate the Jays getting out from under the rest of the contract, but if you buy the company line that “the money will be there when it’s needed”, then it really wouldn’t have mattered how much he was making. The bigger story is that one of the longest-serving Blue Jays and, yes, one of the most productive players in Blue Jays history has been dealt.
Wells didn’t deserve the vitriol he got from so many on the fans on a regular basis for the last three years. He was a very productive player when healthy, which wasn’t often enough recently, but the contract he signed four years ago didn’t change the kind of player he was. He was never going to be an offensive superstar, putting up Pujols/Rodriguez numbers, and that’s what was expected once he signed that deal. It’s too bad that his contract coloured so many people’s view of him.
I have known Vernon for a dozen years, and even though I don’t really “know” him, I know that he loved it here and didn’t understand why the fans turned on him so hard in 2009. I know that his teammates always respected and deferred to him, and once Delgado left, they all saw him as the team leader, even if he wasn’t especially loud and demonstrative.
So what happens now? Well, the Jays are definitely better in centre field now, defensively, with Rajai Davis out there everyday. Wells was one of the best in the business once, but a combination of the pounding of the turf and that hamstring injury a few years back took their toll. One wonders if there’s a move coming for a third baseman to allow Jose Bautista to stay in right, which would put Rivera on the bench, but it’s probably more likely that Rivera plays right and Bautista goes to third, as planned. And John Farrell doesn’t have to worry about making room for Wells in the middle of the line-up because that’s “where he’s supposed to hit”, which is a good thing.
Also, with that $86 million off the books, one would think a multi-year deal with Bautista would become a lot more palatable to the bean-counters.
I wish Vernon luck in Anaheim, I think he’ll do well there, though I wonder how long he’ll stay in centre with the presence of Peter Bourjos, and I look forward to seeing him when the Halos come to town. I’m looking forward to seeing how the new guys fit in with the Jays, there are a lot more options for Farrell now with Napoli joining Adam Lind and Edwin Encarnacion as part of the 1B/DH combo, and if they’re willing to let Napoli be the back-up catcher then it might really open up the roster since they won’t have to carry Jose Molina.
UPDATE: One thing I neglected to mention in the original post that just occurred to me: I’m going to miss seeing Vernon out on the field after every Saturday afternoon game, before the Junior Jays came down but after the field had been set up for them, running the bases with his sons Jayce and Christian. I always liked seeing that.
More to come as things progress, I’m sure!
88 Responses to “Vernon Wells to the Angels for Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera”
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I, too, wish V-Dub all the best. I’m thrilled about this trade, but I was disgusted by the behaviour of a lot of Toronto (so-called) fans. I saw him get heckled half to death on Dog Day, while he and his wife and sons were walking their dog around the warning track. If it wouldn’t have landed me in jail, I would have punched that SOB right in the face. I don’t care how much money a guy makes, you don’t harass children.
- LJLove this deal. Wells was done here as far as I was concerned. He had a great run and a very good 2010, but he was on the down side at 32 and 4 more years at that much money would have been hard for anyone to stomach.
I now say sign Felipe Lopez to man 3B until Brett Lawrie is ready in June. The Jays have enough picks so they can afford to give one up to sign Lopez.
MW: Signing Lopez wouldn’t cost the Blue Jays a draft pick.
- Shawn in CaledonThis is the saddest day in the history of the Blue Jays. Vernon was just on the fan last week talking about how loyal the Blue Jays were to him and finishing his season here. What happened Mike? Why did AA turn his back on Vernon? I cant see VW asking for a trade…no way. I am sick of this club going backwards. I have no interest in watching anymore with VW gone…he was amazing.
- JamieHey Mike,
Great blog. Wells will definitely be missed. He really seems like one of the classiest players in the bigs, there for Toronto and his hometown. He always played 100%, even though some fans didn’t seem to think that was enough. Enjoyed watching his calm and collected leadership all of these years, not to mention some incredible fielding, hitting, and speed back in the day.
Thanks for all your service Vernon! You will be missed!
- CoryI’ll miss Vern, he gave good interviews & struck me as a stand-up guy. Saw him in the minors a long time ago & have always wished him well. Hope he gets a chance at a ring (or two) in Anahiem!
- NickSure looks like a salary dump to me. I don’t see the return here helping the team. I really like Vdub on a personal level but think this is a good longterm move with Gose, etc, choppin at the bit. While I wish Vernon good luck, I think its a good organizational move.
- steveNobody saw this coming. Once again AA has stymied the rumour industry.
- kateMike, next time you see AA, tell him I will personally wash his car once a week for the duration of the 2011 season.
This trade is amazing, he is unreal.
- DannoMackFrom a fan perspective (not a bean counter`s), I will really miss Vernon. He always carried himself with class and his numbers don`t lie… he is in the Jays` record books as one of the franchise`s all time best! Good luck in Anaheim Vernon!
- AlanI’m sad to see him go, but it is a necessary move if the Jays want to continue to grow.
The money is now freed up and I believe it will be spent wisely by AA.
Hopefully they can turn the Wells $84 million into $70 to $75 million for Bautista and Napoli and pocket some cash for a future signing.
Manny Ramirez anyone?
- T.J.Wells as most Jays fans will recall, absolutely kills against the Rangers. His stats last year vs his hometown team were incredible. In 10 games 8HR .382 avg 1.147 SLG and .500 OBP. I guess he really enjoys sticking it to his BFF Young. That will endear him to the Angels fans.
I would not be surprised if AA pointed V-dubs stats out to the Angels GM, to help get the deal done.
- RezI’d also like to wish Veron luck, he’s a solid center fielder despite his contract. I like this move because Napoli gives us depth at the C and DH position and he’s another card to play for Ferell. I hope we use this money to sign Bautista.
- shawnWow. You have to believe that there is something else in the works or all of the “The money will be there when we need it” comments lack credibility and seem a little hypocritical. However, Vernon was set to make an incredibly obscene amount of money and is in possession of eroding skills.
- D Robert LapradeHey Mike,
- AJwhat would you say is the likelihood of Vernon joining the Level of Excellence 10 years down the line
Mixed feelings:
It is very sad to see Wells go (also sad to see that he wasn’t able to live up to his potential the past few years because of injuries, etc.). I hope in the long run he is remembered fondly.
It’s also exciting to see a trade made that many people said “couldn’t be done.” The trade seems to be in Toronto’s favour based on reactions of baseball writers.
It would be nice if Rivera pulled a Bautista, living up to the high expectations that were once laid on him, but I’m not holding my breath on that one.
- FredMike, what are you hearing about the Money going back to the Angels. Some reports say zero, Heyman at SI says $5M, some say yet to be announced.
- TDotttUh…wow..
I’ll admit that I’ve gotten on Vernon (although I wasn’t one of those mouth breathers that booed him)in the past but it wasn’t because of his giant contract, it was for the extended periods with a distinct lack of production. After the 2009 season where he flat out stunk, he bounced back with a 2010 oWAR of 4.4. But how on the sweet brow of the Oracle at Delphi did A.A. unload his contract on the Angels and actually get assets in return?!?
Again, I’m a fan of Vernon and I never begrudged him the money he was being paid but this trade defies logic. It remains to be seen what the Jays will do with this new financial flexibility. Assuming nothing changes between now and the start of he season, attendance will be even crappier than last year.
- Rob TJust incredible. I can’t wait for the next move by AA; each move seems to top the next. It seems everything around the Jays/baseball has been on the positive for the last 15 months; decent return on Halladay, Morrow trade, Escobar trade, Cito out and John Farrell in, beefing up the scouting department, good international free agent signings, freed from Vernon’s albatross contract, lots of draft picks in a deep 2011 draft, willing to go over slot in the draft now, trading a surplus decent pitcher (Marcum) for a potential stud (Lawrie), improving to a top 5 farm system, another wildcard slot coming in 2012…it’s been good.
Only thing is I’d have liked to have seen Manny here. Oh well.
- Flaming MoeJays get 4 yr 84 mill off the books
Wells 32 yrs old
.280, .329, .475 career
Napoli – Catcher/IB, 29 yrs old – 6 Million salary
.251, .346. 485
Juan Rivera, 32 yrs old
.280, .328, .461
1 yr, 5.25 Million on his last year of contract
What the hell is LA thinking? Rivera is essentially the same player Wells is
for $18 less this year, and no commitment past this year.
Napoli is as good an offensive player than Wells now and 3 years younger.
What a brilliant move by Anthopolous
- jmaronThis came out of nowhere unlike the Halladay trade.
After looking at it I think the Jays came out pretty good. And there won’t be cash involved going the other way which is incredible – quite a feat for AA.
On paper the numbers of Napoli and Rivera doesn’t jump out compared to Vernon’s but this is mostly a business move for AA. I think at the very minimum it’s a fair trade considering there’s no money involved and Vernon’s very heavy backended contract. if anything it’s a good one for the Jays.
Also Angel Stadium is more of a pitchers park, and the numbers aren’t bad considering that. However, Napoli SO’s a fair bit – but that’s common with a power hitter and 30+ HR’s is a very realistic expectation in his new ball park.
Vernon will be missed. I didn’t think he deserved the treatment he got from most fans – I moslty blame JP. Plus Vernon would play hurt and not make excuses for it – a class act in my book. I hope he won’t be booed too badly by the fans when he returns to play against the Jays.
- mortBest of luck to Vernon, he was a class act during his time with the jays, and also a very productive player. Unfortunately, he was never going to live up to the expectations that contract produced.
Also, you have to be extremely impressed with the job AA has done thus far in Toronto. Even Mike must admit that he is clearly doing a better job as the GM than JP ever did.
- rickI will miss VW. I think he was a super person, great family man and team mate, and like you, wish him the best in LA. It was also very unselfish of him to waive his no-trade clause.
That being said, I like the trade. The Jays are a stronger team. Napoli alone put up VW’s offensive numbers and Rivera as a fourth outfielder isn’t such a bad thing.
Napoli played a lot of 1B after Morales was hurt. Maybe he could move over to 3B, which is out biggest need at the present time. As a catcher, you’d expect him to have the arm for it.
- bluejaysstatsgeekmichael,
- darrell bishopthat guy vw was a total class act ever since the day he got here.
personally, will definitely miss the professionalism he demonstrated day in day out yr. after yr. after yr.
all the time in the world for vernon. no doubt.
but a deal that had to be done.
so it was.
see you later vernon.
Anthopoulos just earned another stripe. No way this trade could have happened before the Nats and Bsox spent zillions on Werth and Crawford. All of a sudden Wells contract became …fair?
- StavrosGood for AA for realizing the opportunity, but I’m looking forward to the day when we can open up the books and actually buy some good young players. Prince at first base would be nice…
Straight forward remark:
I don’t understand such positive reaction Mike. In a league with no salary cap and a team who’s owner says “the $ will be there when needed”, you’d think it wouldn’t be such a big deal carrying a contract such as VDub’s. In my opinion Vernons at least a B+ player and I assume he’s a top notch sports figure in TO. I don’t understand the euphoria. Enlighten me please.
For the record I’m not trying to come off as an a$$. I truly would like to know.
Mike in Barrie
- Mikeand michael,
- darrell bishophow about the rays?
very very interesting if the reports are true.
sign manny & johnny d.?
and assuming with the vernon returns coming the jays way, napoli and rivera not much room now to add to the roster in terms of position players except maybe chavez (or some other) to play some 3rd for us.
but still would love to see another youngish frontline starter to replace marcum.
probably not in their plans though unfortunately.
we’ll see i guess……
Good job Vernon – I am excited about Napoli and the new direction. Vernon is a good player but has not been the same (especially on the bases and in the field) since he hurt his hamstring.
I hope that there is no rallying cry to boo him when he returns. You wouldn’t think there would be but you never know… as Toronto fans we sometimes just don’t get it. (Why did people boo Scutaro?)
He was a class act, had one bad year surrounded by several very productive seasons and nothing but grace on and off the field.
It’s too bad he couldn’t win here in Toronto, but all the best and good luck out in Anaheim Vdubs!
- GregHi Mike. Could you post your quasi-Jays talk that you had Friday night?
- AaronMike,
Why is signing Jose B, now such a priority. Why not continue with trying to get as many young, high ceiling talent as possible. I’d let Jose play out this year and take my chances.
- AnthonyI was driving when i heard this trade! What a shocker! I too, think Vernon was a great guy, and I would never boo him. While at times, he would seem locked in and crush balls, (that’s what she said) my wife and I could predict that he would get a low and away breaking ball w runners on or bases loaded… And he always swung creating a weak pop-up or grounder or K. Frustrating.
I will remember how he carried this team defensively and offensively, but that was a few years ago.
After all the shock and awe, I will have to say kudos on AA for getting out of the contract.
- EdI really liked Vernon as a guy and as a player in Toronto and he will be missed here. Good luck with the Angels Vernon. We’ll get your spot on the level of excellent ready for you when you retire.
That said, AA is quickly becoming one of my favourite GMs in sports right now. This move opens up so much money for the future and can be used in a variety of different ways. Davis now has a spot to play everyday (which explains the 2 year deal), Snider now has a spot everyday and Bautista (if they sign him long term) has his spot in the outfield. Rivera is a one year guy who’ll walk at year end and Napoli is a perfect backup catcher who can play against lefties at first base. I love this trade long-term. Alex did good again.
- Mike PAA – Shift the pro scouting staff to amateur scouting – no one will trade with the Jays for a while.
VDub – No one here blames you for saying yes to ‘THE CONTRACT’. You’ll rake it in AL West.
- Jake in ThornhillWHAT????
AA TRADES THE WELLS CONTRACT?
THE RAYS SIGN DAMON & MANNY??
FOR 7 MILL?????????
DID I WAKE UP IN BIZZARO WORLD???
HELP ME MIKE, I THINK MY HEART IS GOING!!
I THINK A CELEBRATORY COMEBACK FROM ROBBIE TO HONOUR THE HOF INDUCTION WOULD OUTRIGHT KILL ME!!
BIZZARO WORLD!!
- FabioSo long, Vernon. We’ll miss you. What this move does for me is showcase AA’s brilliance and his commitment to the plan. I’m a little surprised there weren’t any prospects in the deal but it still works. Look for Juan Rivera to be traded at the deadline for younger, more controllable players as he’s in the last year of his contract.
I still wouldn’t give Bautista a long term deal until he proves he can do it again, though. Go to arb, play nicely, and try to sign him to a long term deal once he duplicates his success. If that doesn’t work out, trade him mid-season for a couple of studs and have the best farm system in the bigs.
If you believe that Aaron Hill and Adam Lind will rebound, things look peachy for 2012 and 2013. I see the 2013 / 2014 Jays as the following:
C: Travis D’Arnaud / Carlos Perez
1B: Adam Lind
2B: Brett Lawrie
SS: Aediny Hechavarria
3B: Aaron Hill
LF: Raji Davis
CF: Anthony Gose
RF: Travis Snider
DH: JP Arencibia
SP: Kyle Drabek
SP: Brandon Morrow
SP: Deck McGuire
SP: Ricky Romero
SP: Brett Cecil
CL: Zach Stewart
- ronRP: David Purcey
RP: Shawn Camp
RP: Josh Roenicke
RP: Jesse Litsch
RP: Mark Rcepzcynski
RP: Aaron Sanchez
Mike,
You said, “with that $84 million off the books”. The truth is, we do not know if the Angels are paying ALL of Wells’ remaining contract. For you to make that assumption is completely irresponsible as a journalist. For all we know, the Jays could be picking up half of the contract, if not more. Do you really think the Angels would pay $84 million over 4 years to a player who has had major injury problems and is no longer a great center fielder? As you said, he was never a superst5ar to begin with. Odds are the Jays are picking up a nice chunk of the cash.
Here is a quote from the AP story about the trade…
“Neither general manager, Tony Reagins of the Angels nor Alex Anthopoulos of the Blue Jays, would specifically say whether any money was included in the trade to offset Wells’ salary. Instead, both GMs danced around the question, simply saying it was announced as a 2-for-1 swap.”
Neither GM confirmed ANYTHING about the money.
I don’t expect you will post this, because I am criticizing your journalism, but I know you will read this and that is all that matters to me. Just try to confirm your facts in the future. Otherwise, you do a good job.
MW: Of course I’ll post this, but you’re completely wrong. First off, I had the trade before I wrote the blog post, confirmed by a source as a 2-for-1. Had I not had it myself, I would have used words like “reportedly” or “possibly”. Second of all, while neither GM answered directly whether any money was involved, they both did say that the entirety of the trade was as it was announced, two players for one player. No money changed hands, the commissioner’s office was not needed to approve the trade, as would have happened had there been more than $1 million cash changing teams. I did make a math error – it’s $86 million, not 84 – and I’ll go correct that now, but otherwise I appreciate the utterly unfounded criticism.
- RandyVernon is a class act and has never deserved any personal criticism, what-so-ever.
The no-class bums (in and out of the stands) who look for any chance to unfairly vent on athletes (just because a lot of money is involved) should just shut-up and go get themselves a real life.
Never-the-less, I can already hear the Bobcat applauding this deal and confirming that you just can’t continue giving one guy 25% of the team payroll and expect good team chemistry, a serious chance at improving the bottom line or even a WS win.
This truly impossible deal (according to all the self proclaimed experts)just had to be done and AA has taken, therefore,a huge step towards a potential GM/Executive of the year accreditation.
However, without Wells’ salary as a noose around the Jays’ proverbial neck, I’m just wondering (but hoping – not) if AA has any remorse that this couldn’t get done any sooner?
For example, would the Jays have been more interested or prepared to seriously offer for Beltre, Crawford, Manny, Lee, et al or even keeping Marcum?
Those kind of signings might be good for 2011 but not so much for future years. I’ll have to hope AA won’t be tempted to overspend on what has just been a truly spectacular saving.
So,for the record, I’m not in favour of a long term deal for Bautista, especially at over $10M per year.
A one year deal is fine (hoping for the arbitrator to agree at the Jays’ $7.6M level, of course) and keeps Bautista as a “tradeable” commodity.
Could there be any more valuable trading chip than the Sept/09 and all of 2010 HR leader?
I can’t think of any other evidence of good leadership than AA being able to stay consistant with his plan of locking up the very best of the very young guys for as long as possible and hope he can keep, “just being AA!”
- BRI believe the deal is great for both clubs. Vernon is closer to home now which may also be why he waived the no-trade clause. Wells was a company man and true Blue Jays fans like myself thank him and wish him & his family all the best with the Angels.
What continues to impress me more is the way young AlexA goes about quietly taking care of business outside of the media spotlight. Quite refreshing compared to JP.
It’s should be a very dynamic and interesting team on the field this upcoming season! GoJaysGo.
- Leonard EngSad day! Vernon Wells was my favorite Jay.
- DanOne must wonder were the leadership will come from now?
(Halladay,Marcum,Wells)
All gone!
Hopefully Hill,Lind and Bautista can be the faces of the franchise moving forward.
Understand the trade from a baseball perspective. None the less still a very sad day!!
Good Luck with the Angels!!
You will be missed!!!
I think this is obviously a great move for where the Jays are at in terms of team cycles. However, I’m a little bit miffed by all the internet celebratory chatter – it’s not like Jays are now a better team.
I guess what’s really bothering me is the over hyped love-in for Alex Anthopolous. When JP took over from Ash, he basically did exactly the same sorts of things AA has done. For example, he moved the Mondesi contract.
I just basically want to crap on everyone’s parade I suppose
- PaulMike – congrats on appearing on Rogers Sportsnet. I don’t know if that’s a first for you or not, but you did a heck-of-a-job. I hope they use your services much more this coming season. You deserve it and the baseball coverage would be greatly improved with your insight included.
Good trade for the Jays and frankly, if the Angels don’t mind the money, it will be a good trade for them too. I think Vernon will benefit from a change of scenery and from having some pressure taken off as to being the “man”.
Sad to see him go, like it was to see Doc go, but it’s the right move at the right time for the Jays.
Jeff
- Jeff MMike, for all the loyal listeners & callers who call in to Jays talk last season, maybe even for the 2009 season as well, I think you owe them an apology. Knowing your hard stance of being right all the time, this may be hard for you but I will explain. I am a regular listener of Jays talk last season & apart from when you had a few shows all to Cito bash, I had the radio on the ‘on’ position more often then not. Not agreeing to the manager’s moves & criticizing them is one thing, but there is having a show all about bashing him & egging callers to do it. There’s a difference…
Anyways, there must have been over 75-100 callers (estimated), maybe more who have brought up getting rid of or trading Venon Wells all for you to shoot them down saying that it’s impossible to trade him & that he’s stuck here. It’s not so much that you said this & it good for you to have an opinion but it’s how you shut down callers pretty much any talk of it all season long, sometimes rudely…Callers who want to make it a lengthy discussion aren’t allowed to since in your eyes, he was ‘un-tradable’…Listeners put the time to call in & its not right to treat them as you did, citing that it can not happen, as if it was ‘Fact’…You would say things like ‘Well, there’s no point in talking about it because it isn’t going to happen’..or somewhere along those lines, & you would move on to the next topic or next caller…If a radio host shoots down callers almost immediately when they bring up a topic because you think it’s far from the truth or impossible for it to happen, you better be right about it or that it is a ‘Fact’. I feel for these callers because I’m sure they remember & they are probably not happy with how you treated them. So, for all these loyal callers, I believe an apology would be nice. If not, that’s ok too since IT is you & wouldn’t surprise anyone but you’ll probably get a lot of angry callers calling in this season OR more listeners will just have the radio at a different station OR just wait till the next morning & listen to Jeff Blair(a great baseball man) who does treat callers with more respect.
As for Venon Wells??…He has been nothing but a class act. When he returns to T.O, I will be at the game giving him a standing ovation as everyone should. It’s obvious this trade gives the team tons of financial flexibility moving forward & a great move by Anthopolus. But by no means this is cause for celebration. Just a note, people forget, he was making something like 3-6 Million in the front portion of his contract. Even though he was under performing for the overall massive contract he signed, it was a bargain if fans just consider how much he got paid in the first couple years of this contract. Fans are so near sighted that they only look at the 22ish Million he is due this year. It’s easy to say he’s not worth it but how about the first couple of years when the Jays got a bargain basement price for Wells??…Another note, he was nice enough & willing to back load his contract so the Jays can try & contend at the end of Riccardi’s tenure. Hope fans don’t forget what Vernon has meant & done to this organization the last decade. I haven’t.
MW: I appreciate that you like Blair more than you like me, that’s cool, and you’ll hear what you want to hear, and that’s OK too, but I’ll submit that I wasn’t rude to the majority of callers who suggested the Jays could trade Wells, given the 2010 he was having. Dismissive, maybe, because I honestly didn’t believe it was possible (and I doubt it was before the Werth and Crawford contracts were signed this winter), but not rude – unless maybe it was the 7th or 8th caller in the same show asking the same thing. But I suggest you go back and read the beginning of this post.
- BluejaysfanI wish the Vernon to do well as a person in California, but hope he doesn’t resurge to 2006 offensive levels.
I didn’t like his comment about being excited to go to a place where there’s an expectation of winning. I’m pretty sure that we all expected him to think that the Jays could win. Look at this season – we won 5 more games than the Angels and have a realistic chance of winning more than them again this year.
This is an incredible move by A.A., sparing us the bitterness and acrimony that would have followed over the last four, highest paying years of that ridiculous contract in Wells’ declining years.
Best move he didn’t make – snapping up the geriatric duo Tampa Bay style. Sure they got ManRam cheap, but I don’t think we want that guy anywhere near the young, emerging core of the Jays. Plus, I wouldn’t want to see Damon limping around with his lame arm, tying up a corner outfield spot.
I would like to see A.A. take a flyer on Chavez. What is the best way to sign him to major-league deal but lose as little money as possible through waivers if he doesn’t work out? I think that it will be hard to get Chavez on a minor league/non-roster invitee kind of deal. At 32, we could use him for a year or two until Lawrie and/or Hechavarria move up.
MW: Even if the Blue Jays are a better team, and win more games in a season, than the Angels, LA of A still has a better chance of “winning” – meaning making the playoffs – the way things are currently constructed.
- ToddI like Shawn in Caledon’s Felipe Lopez suggestion. Very versatile option that could legitimately have a bounceback year. I think that he could be had for $3 million or less.
- ToddFirst Marcum then Wells depart for considerably less salary in return. This belies Beeston’s contention that the Jays can spend to Bosox level. Clearly, the Jays are about cheap Sportsnet programming not winning. When the currrent cheap labour on the teamstart qualifying for arbitration or free agency will they be moved for more cheap labour? Unless we see some movement with this financial flexibility the only ocnclusion is that Beeston and AA are being paid to generate low cost summer programming for their employer.
MW: Please name the last Blue Jay who was moved because he was too expensive after qualifying for arbitration or nearing free agency. I certainly wouldn’t be able to do that, I don’t think.
- modestprodigyI’ll echo the words of thanks and good wishes to Vernon! A definite class act. Good for A.A.; shedding that contract was necessary if not practically impossible.
What drives me bonkers are the fans jeering the deal that Vernon was given, yet relish the opportunity to sign Bautista a similar, juicy deal based on a single outstanding year.
I’m not for or against signing Bautista, just irked by the apparent brain-numbness of some of my fellow Jays fans.
- GerryWill miss VW and the team will miss his leadership. With such a young team, who is gonna be the leader in the clubhouse? No Marcum, no Doc, no VW, no Buck? Getting rid of such a huge salary is only positive if its re-invested to keep this team competitive. We’ll see what other moves Alex has up his sleeves. Go Jays!
- LilloMike
- TerryTerrific move on the Blue Jays part.Although I have a ton of respect for Vernon and think he is still a top notch major leaguer,this is the best for the club at this time of rebuilding to contention.All the best to Vernon and I also hope he gets a ring in 2011….but not beyond as I expect to see our Jays contending by then!
He deserves nothing less than a standing O when he returns. Never dogged it, never mouthed off, and was likely a better leader for the young guns in the clubhouse than Cito ever was. He just had the rotten luck of having a really good agent, who convinced a sub-par GM to tremendously over-value him. And who among us wouldn’t want to be paid a little extra above what we’re worth?
Also, class move by AA to keep such a mammoth deal under wraps, rather than publicly shopping Wells via Sportscentre.
- AndrewHey Mike,
Here’s an interesting idea I’d like to bring up. Say Pujols and the Cards don’t work out an extension. Wouldn’t the Jays be a great position, financially, to sign him? Assuming that ownership is willing to spend plus the money that we save from trading Wells I see not attempting to sign Pujols a sin.
- KevinThis is the greatest day of my life!!! just kidding, but I am giddy to the fact that Vernons contract is no more~! I now believe more moves are coming. Not sure what the field will look like come early april, but im excited no less! Wilner, you looked good in the suit last night on connected!!!
- DaveOK, so I’ve read all the analysis and watched AA’s eyes during the interview with JCampbell and now I’d be surprised if Napoli and Rivera even start the regular season!
Unless Napoli platoons with Lind at first, Rivera with Snider in LF (which seems like the most useful options for them all) the two new guys could just as easily end up somewhere else.
McCoy and EE have become very expendable now. AA’s comment about flexibility is the key and it would seem that virtually everyone could be up for grabs as there are no serious contract restrictions to prevent some pretty bold moves.
Chavez at 3rd is also worth a try, especially on a minor league deal, and I’d prefer to see Bautista stay in right ( since I recall many suggesting that it’s not like he’s a Golden Glove candidate at 3rd)field so the Jays can take advantage of his arm strength.
GO Jays GO!
Two posts in one day from me just shows how exciting the Wells deal really is for us armchair GM’s!
- BRThe only thing I see here is that Vernon Wells albatross of a contract is now gone.On a personal level I liked Vernon, but he was never going to live up to the contract he was given. I wish him well in Anaheim. From a business standpoint, the Jays are rid of two monster headache contracts in Wells and Alex Rios in the last 18 months which will give the club flexibility in the years ahead, This is not a salary dump, rather it is a situation where you can have two or maybe even three good players for what you would have paid Vernon. I doubt Rivera or Napoli even finish 2011 with the Blue Jays.
One last thought, please quit blaming J.P. Riccardi for the Wells contract. That was Paul Godfreys doing. Every blog I read, the fans are giving J.P. the business over something he didn’t do.
- Jim in OhioWho would the jays get back from that trade rumor in 2006 for VW from the Halo’s?
- jeffWhen people talk about this trade freeing up resources (financial) to allocate elsewhere, they are dealing in pure conjecture and speculation. We heard the same rumblings about the money saved, when Burnett opted out of his contract, being allocated to the annual budget.
What if a year from now, the payroll is still 50 million dollars. The point is no one at this point knows what direction Rogers is going to go with this team financially.
- BrentYou state that Wells will be playing center but I have heard that Bourjos is manning center with Wells and Hunter going to the corners. Do you see the Angels actually keeping Wells in center?
- Dave JThis message if for the BlueJay fan..mike does not need to apologize for anything, every critic/pundit and personality in every avenue of baseball…believed that Vernon was untradeable..period. The fact that AA actually got the deal done…without picking up any monies is amazing..Mike, don’t fret the haters or winers…you are the best that baseball has in T.O…
- lukeLuke
Re MW’s comment on my last email it should be noted thta if you rid yourself of player sbefore they qualify you dont have to worry about ridding yourself after the fact. The fact is the BJs claim (as Beeston does regualrly with McCown) that they are prepared to spend to compete. The evidence since Rogers took over is to the contrary. Unfortunately given McCown’s man crush on Beeston he never questions him on the veracit yof his statement. Thenpoint is Rogers is in the programming business and the BJs provide cheap summer programming. Therefore unlike the Steibrenners Moreno etcd they are not about winning.
MW: Please name the last player the Blue Jays have moved before he qualified for arbitration for fear he’d become too expensive.
- modestprodigyAs has been said in print on through this blog, Vernon was a class act around here the entire time and certainly through the lows of trying to live up to that contract; what looked like a good one for all when it was signed.
Those kind of albatross contracts are still being signed today in MLB today.
Now I know they took back some contracts in trading him but what I don’t understand is why not replace Vernon’s massive contract with the 2M that Manny accepted in Tampa?
I’m actually not a big fan of his antics but as it stands today, the Jays take another step back and will be among the most nameless, faceless and lacking in personality teams in all of baseball.
Even though we still would likely finish a distant 3rd in the East, at least we could dream a bit, have some fun at the ballpark and know we just had to out up with him for a year or two :0)
I know what we’re trying to build towards, but this move would not have sidetracked that goal. The short term pain never seems to translate to long term gain around here.
- GaryMike,
Do you think that AA will be more or less likely to sign Bautista long term now?
Also, what win total do you think it would take for us to take a run at a big free agent next year, ie. Fielder, Pujols, Papelbon?
James
- jamesVW was a classy guy, no doubt about that.
- PaulI’m not going to miss those pop ups with runners in scoring position though.
Has anyone noticed that the Anthopolous era is looking a lot like the Gord Ashe era?
MW: No one who is actually paying attention.
- Jason KimI think it’s a good trade for both teams. Wells is above average in field and has the potential to improve to his better days at the plate. But he cracked under the pressure of a big contract. The angels have more money to throw around the contract may not be as big a distraction there. I expect wells to have a very good year next year.
MW: Wells certainly did not “crack under the pressure of a big contract” – he had two very good years and one poor year in the three years that the contract was in effect.
- daveNot sure why Jays fans are so excited about this deal. It’s a salry dump pure and simple. Napoli will improve our depth at catcher and first and he’s a secent offensive player. Rivera is nothing more than a throw in. All this talk of having extra money to work with no is just speculation. The Jays are going to continue to have a hard time attracting free agents to this city and a hard time putting fannies in the seats. We’ve yet to see them spend the money necessary to put a winner on the field. Let’s watch and see….
- Craig MI have 3-year old and a 9-year old. When we went to a game last year, we sat in the outfield and it was Vernon that the kids remembered and cheered for. He was one of those classy players you could encourage the kids to cheer for. I’m not sure you could say that about 90% of the ball players these days. I think the Jays will miss him more than we know, for his classy leadership. Playing through injuries without complaints, sucking it up when the fans dump on you, those are intangible qualities in the locker-room that are hard to replace. Let’s hope Bautista wasn’t a one-year wonder, and that’s he’s playing clean, so the kids can have another great ball player to cheer for, cuz that’s what it’s really all about.
Scott
- ScottGood luck with the new gig,VW.
Jeez, a steady stream of all things baseball is just a month away. YAAAHOOOO!!!!
- shoelesslouMike,
Someone here commented the Wells contract was more a Godfrey deal than a Riccardi deal. Can you shed any light on that?
- jmaronHey Mike. I got back from the winter tour where I met JP Arencibia, Jesse Litsch, Scott Richmond, and Ricky Romero. There was a very good mood to the day and they signed autographs for over 2 hours. Jesse enjoyed getting his photos taken with babies.
- Matt in BChaters:
- paulit is BECAUSE AA can make moves like this that “the money will be there when we need it.” Showing that he respects the fact that he is spending other people’s money will make it easier to convince them when the time is right to make a move.
Queston: since it looks like were really going to see the young talent soon how far off do u think the gose’s, lawrie’s, and stewarts are?
- jasonI’m happy AA was able to pull this off. It’s a fairly large accomplishment considering that a majority of the money is owed in the next 4 years.
That being said, I’m tired of people praising VW for playing through his injuries. How exactly did he help the team by playing hurt when his performance was subpar while injured? If his play helped the team, I could understand, but he was beyond awful when he played hurt and took up a spot in the middle of the order (while not producing any offense in many cases … especially with RISP). While I could say the manager is just as much to blame for throwing him out there day in and day out when he was incapable of performing at a quality level, it was VW who insisted on playing rather than take the time required to heal properly. Not only did he set back his only healing process, he took up a valuable roster spot that may have been filled with a healthy, productive player.
I’m glad VW and that horrible contract are gone … and I’m not ashamed to say it. My rose coloured glasses are off. The only move that made me happier than this trade was the retirement of Cito. Now maybe this team can finally build with the young talent they have available and a manager who seems to be willing to actually manage a team.
Good job AA. Keep up the stellar work!
- mdcI don’t think you can compare Vernon Well to anyone, He will be missed, I am disappointed, that we could not afford both Bautista, and VW. Humbug. I would have traded EE in a heartbeat, and backed up Arencibia with Buck. Give all the time to Arencibia. ANd I would have kept our former SS too.; Yunel is ok. The other guy was solid.
- BarbMy respect for AA has just gone up another notch.I liked Vernon but not his contract.Now the Jays have a few more millions to spend more wisely.I hope they lock up Bautista but not for more than 3 years.We don’t want another Wells type contract.
- PaulDon’t see why this trade, straight up, if Wells were only due 40 or 50 million, would be horrible?
But Napoli has to go to first, and Arencibia plays, or Molina gets unloaded.
- WillIt’s difficult to see the marquee players be shipped elsewhere, and as much as an optimist that I am, I still believe alot of this moving and shaking is to help Rogers Media bottom line and to offer a substandard team on the field.
It’s true that Napoli will be a great asset against LHP, which the Jays seem to desparately need.
It’s a hit on leadership. With Halladay and Wells gone, so goes the old Jays. The most senior members on the team are Frasor (2004) and Aaron Hill (2005).
- TimHow come you stopped replying to every post? That is one of the main reasons that your blog is the best on fan590.com! Dont take that away :) Us fans like to hear your expert opinion on our baseball questions/comments/concerns.
- Han SoloI don’t want to get in the way of the love-in with AA but I will. While the trade undoubtedly makes sense financially, it only reinforces my skepticism about Rogers’ readiness to spend, regardless of the party line that AA has been feeding us (“the money will be there when needed,” or some such mantra). The bottom line is that it’s yet again a salary dump. The other simple fact is that AA has consistently and very methodically been making the Jays worse, not better, for the last few months with promise of some mystical time in the future when they will be “competing year after year.” WHEN AND HOW?
If the Wells trade had been made in isolation, I would have been the first to applaud it. The problem is that it’s been part of a pattern: get rid of a salary (Burnett, Halladay, Rolen, Rios and many others), promise to re-invest the money, do nothing. The very idea now of discussing what to do with Bautista is ridiculous. Of course, you sign him. Guys like him don’t grow on trees even if it turns out last year was a fluke. What differentiates teams that win from teams that whine is that the former take risks and do get stuck from time to time with a Clement, a Pavano, and, yes, a Wells, while the latter brag about their fiscal prudence. The very fact that we have to think back to Burnett or Ryan or Rolen as isolated examples of Rogers’ largesse proves my point. If you want to win consistently in MLB, particularly in this division, you have to spend ALL THE TIME.
AA has presented a false dichotomy: either we spend a ton of money or we do what I’m doing, i.e. rebuilding slowly. In a big market like Toronto, these two “alternatives” overlap — you do both. You can’t always be going for “next year.” If things go right in a particular year, you have to be in a position to take advantage. The Jays are setting themselves up to do the exact opposite in 2011 — dumping salaries and replacing them with Dotels, Rauches and Pattersons. Besides, the “gene pool” for those who care about baseball in this city is diminished every year that isn’t “next.” It’s kind of like tomorrow never comes.
Looking at this from the Angels’ point of view, it’s all quite simple: they were going to spend a lot more money on Crawford and believe that Vernon’s much smaller contract (yes!!!) is an upgrade on Rivera, while they don’t think much of Napoli. They care about winning. The Blue Jays care about their “fantasy baseball” budget. I am not blaming AA for this. In fact, from that point of view, this is a great trade. But how does it reassure us that the Blue Jays’ ownership is seriously interested in competing? We were told that the Burnett/Rios contract savings would be channeled back. They never were. Are we to believe that will happen after this trade? Whether or not Rogers’ hand is directly behind this, I don’t know and I don’t really care. Until he proves otherwise — and perhaps he will — AA is becoming another BB without the OBP and without the weak division. Except that Billy Beane has been very straight with the fans about what Moneyball is really about. If AA isn’t going to do it himself, then the sports media in the city should stop gushing about him and call a spade a spade. At least those media not owned by Rogers.
- AlexGreat trade by AA. The main argument I keep hearing is that the contract shouldn’t be a problem since Rogers is claiming the money will be there. However, if I am not mistaken, AA has always said they will ask for the money when they are ready to compete. By dealing this contract away it allows them to be more flexible and reach the verge of competing much quicker.
- Wesley LeongI don’t understand all the comments from people on this blog and by people like Richard Griffin suggesting that Mike Napoli isn’t much use.
Napoli has a better career ops than any Jay player by more than 50 pts (about 50 pts higher than Wells as well). He’s 29 years old and is a catcher, not a great one mind you, but not so horrible that he can’t play the position.
Rivera is essentially the same hitter as Wells and while he can’t play much defence, he is a useful piece on a team that lacks offensive talent.
I’ve been a little on the fence about AA because I wasn’t thrilled by some of the young players he targeted. But, he just keeps doing smarter and smarter things – like this trade and piling up draft picks in the top 100.
- jmaronHi Mike,
- RoryI am sorry to see Vernon go – one of my favourite Blue Jays to watch play, and I appreciated his attitude off the field as well.
My question involves the money issue. I suppose it is nice to save $80 million (at the cost of a very good player), but has the front office shown that they know how to spend this money? I know they have had some good small-budget signings, but they are not going to sign 40 John Bucks. It seems they already had enough money for the draft, so what are they going to do with the cash? It seems to me these big money, long-term contracts rarely work out. I cannot remember the last one for the Jays that really worked out for the full length of the contract. Clemens to a degree. But the past is littered with many failed or at least only half-successful attempts: Erik Hanson, Frank Thomas, Corey Koskie, BJ Ryan, AJ Burnett. What do you think are some of the (relatively recent) big-name signings the Jays have made that were considered an unqualified success? And how about for the league in general? (Not re-upping your own players, but actually signing another team’s free agent). And, in your opinion, is this how the Jays will spend the savings, on a big name? What would you do with it?
Thanks Mike!
michael,
- darrell bishopkind of hilarious but indeed telling.
big trade. big news. bam! 79 blog posts & counting in january coming your way at a time when the game of baseball in this town is very much on the backburner based on time of yr.
kind of like fans here going down to the ballpark for a game in recent yrs michael.
the baseball fans in this city are certainly lurking in the weeds. just need a real good reason to come out it seems.
apparently they’re still out there. that’s the good news i guess….
Hey Mike, Is Vernon a better centre fielder than Torii Hunter? or should the Angels be moving him to a corner outfield spot?
- Randymichael,
- darrell bishopmlb’s teams 40 man rosters are usually made up of players with a decent shot to make the majors. at the very least, players the organization wants to protect it seems.
the jays 40 man roster has a couple names i’m not too familiar with for some reason.
farina, carreno, mastroianni and sierra.
of all the names i’ve heard discussed as possibilities for the big team in the next few upcoming yrs.
those are 4 i haven’t heard all that much talk about.
maybe sierra but not really those others.
what’s up with these guys?
michael,
- darrell bishopand one other thing while i’m on a roll here that i think is worth being mentioned.
sure, we’re all pretty much on board with the decisions & moves that young a.a. is making these days to take this organization forward.
i think that’s for the most part pretty unanimous here in blue jay land.
but let’s not get too ahead of ourselves here on him really pulling one out of his hat on making this trade happen.
it certainly takes 2 to tango as they say but let’s not honestly think for a second that he really pulled the wool over the angels organizations eyes on this one.
they either wanted wells & this contract or they didn’t.
were obviously very able & willing to take 4 more yrs & $22+m per yr. in our vw or they weren’t.
i’m pretty sure a.a. didn’t somehow convince them that he was a real bargain. i think they know what they are getting. no doubt. just willing to roll with it is all.
but you do have to ask for the order. we need to at least give a.a. that much here.
so very well done in that regard obviously.
now, let’s see that with all this new found team salary space if a.a. can get jose b. signed up to a new 7 yr. $126m contract extension….
Hi Mike,
I really enjoy reading your feedback to comments fans leave on your blog.
I know the live blogging during the season takes up most of your time and this is valuable offseason time to spend with your family.
Will we ever see the “ol’ Mike blog” where you’ll provide feedback on the rational comments?
I personally get more out of it then the live blogging to be honest.
- AKMW: Wells certainly did not “crack under the pressure of a big contract” – he had two very good years and one poor year in the three years that the contract was in effect.
When your getting paid money like he was your not allowed to have a poor year.
MW: Unless, of course, your (sic) a human being.
- daveFrom 2007 – 2009 he never hit more than 20 home runs in any of those years nor did he have more than 80 RBS. Is that what you would term “very good” they are really just average or a little better than average numbers. His pay was for a much better than average numbers. So before shooting down a post why don’t you review your own comments first for a change
MW: Because, stunningly, I look at things in context.
- daveI think MW should have to buy a big “I’m Sorry” Cookie for everyone he frogged on the air for suggesting a cash free VW trade.
I do not know why everyone is getting so worked up … it’s just sports. Good bye and good luck Mr. Wells.
- E-VadOn another subject, because I’m just curious, are you actual friends with any Jay? Like go to Hill’s place for a BBQ friends? Going sailing with Johnny Mac friends? Like visting BJ Ryan in the retirement home friends? He’s still an expensive Jay isn’t he?
Let’s see AA trade Ryan’s contract! That would be impressive…
- E-Vad