6:15 PM Eastern
FIRST THINGS FIRST – CAST YOUR VOTE FOR TOM CHEEK!!!!! The voice of the Blue Jays, of baseball and of summer in Canada is on the ballot to get onto the final ballot for the Ford C. Frick Award for Broadcasting Excellence, an honour that would get him into the broadcasters’ wing of the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY. It’s up to us to make sure he gets his due. Go to www.facebook.com/baseballhall, go to the “poll” section and please vote for Tom. Do it every day. Thank you.
Now then………………It’s been a pretty busy afternoon so far, huh? I was on The Game Plan, talking to Alex Seixeiro, when the news came out that Roy Halladay had actually been spotted in a hotel in Philadelphia, and since then it’s been one report after another, with a lot of reporters doing a lot of digging.
Here’s where we are: It appears as though the Blue Jays, Phillies and Mariners have agreed on a three-way trade that would send Halladay to the Phils (4 1/2 months too late if you’re a Phillies fan), and a package that includes Mariners’ prospect Phillipe Aumont and Philly prospects Travis D’Arnaud and one of Michael Taylor or Dominic Brown to the Blue Jays. Many believe that Cliff Lee is the main piece going to Seattle. Lee’s agent has said that Cliffy wants a contract extension of his own, but Lee doesn’t have what people refer to as “leverage”, since he doesn’t have a no-trade clause.
Who are some of the others who might be included in this deal? Well, we know the Mariners have had interest in Lyle Overbay in the past, and could use a first baseman. They also don’t have any lefties in the bullpen, so Scott Downs is a solid option for them. Seattle has two big-armed young righties in Brandon Morrow (whose future could be in the bullpen or the starting rotation) and Mark Lowe (the M’s “closer of the future” until this year’s eemergence of David Aardsma). They’ve also got Carlos Triunfel, a shortstop who turns 20 in February and who was their top prospect going into the 2009 season – a year in which he got fat, broke his leg, tore up his ankle and treated the Mariners to an array of attitudinal issues.
We have heard about the Phillies’ prospects since July – Taylor, Brown, lefty J.A. Happ, righty Kyle Drabek. The Jays had also been interested in young shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson, but they both moved to the Indians in the deadline deal for Cliff Lee.
Lee is the mystery piece here – no one seems to be sure that he’s actually in the deal. The Phillies do need to clear money in order to fit Halladay in, and they need to give up something significant in order to pick up Aumont and whatever other prospects are necessary to get the deal done, but does it have to be Lee? One wonders why the Phils didn’t simply non-tender Joe Blanton in order to free up a bunch of money. And isn’t the point to have both Halladay and Lee for the playoff push? After all, if they’d had Halladay instead of Lee this fall, they still wouldn’t have won the World Series.
That said, Lee does seem to be the guy about whom everyone is talking.
There are still so many details to work out, even if the player package has been agreed upon by all sides. Halladay has to hammer out an extension with the Phillies and everyone has to pass their physicals (which may be an issue if Triunfel is involved). There’s almost no way we get an official word on this until Wednesday at the absolute earliest. But it appears as though the pieces ARE in place, the blockbuster is set to bust, and the Alex Anthopoulos era has truly begun.
Of course, it could all still fall apart. Alex hates leaks, and for good reason.
I can’t say what I think about the deal until the entire package is revealed, of course, and really we won’t know how the Jays did until at least three or four years down the road. After all, Aumont’s arm could fall off, so many things could happen. But I am excited to see that there are some top-level prospects being included. Still, prospects are just that. Aumont and Taylor may be future stars, as may Morrow and Triunfel, but they may not be. The Phillies, without question, get the best player in this deal and (if it’s Lee), the Mariners get the second-best. The Jays could wind up with a huge payoff down the road, though, and that road might not be too long – Taylor finished last season in AAA, and some say he could be a big-league lead-off man as soon as this season, and Aumont spent time in AA last season at the tender age of 20. Remember, too, that Aumont pitched in that great Canada-USA game at the World Baseball Classic in March, working out of a bases-loaded, none-out jam by getting David Wright on a little looping liner to short, then striking out Kevin Youkilis and Curtis Granderson.
It’s going to be a fun couple of days as we wait for this thing to become official, but we now have our first semi-concrete look into the future of the Blue Jays – how bright is it? We shall soon see.
I’ll get into a discussion of Halladay’s Blue Jays legacy once the trade is officially made, but suffice it to say that this guy gave the best years of his career to a team that couldn’t surround him with enough of the right pieces to knock off the Beasts of the East. This is no whiny superstar begging out of a bad situation; this is a guy who gave up free agency TWICE to stay with the team that drafted him, and wasn’t going to do it a third time. Hopefully we get a farewell tour from the good doctor in 2016 or so, after the new contract with the Phillies expires.
I was going to put up a post today with my opinions on the Jays’ moves of the weekend, and chances are you’ll get more depth from me in the comments section (which I’ll get around to soon, I promise – it’s going to be a busy night with both the Halladay stuff and me finishing off the Fat Elvis Finals that are currently tied a game apiece) – but briefly:
-I couldn’t believe the Jays didn’t non-tender Jose Bautista, but was even more amazed to see that they brought him back at the same price; a worthwhile gamble and one obviously agreed to ahead of time.
-Likewise Raul Chavez, a surprise non-tender, but then coming back on a minor-league deal to put himself in the same position in which he was last spring (which worked out awfully well for him).
-Joey Gathright on a minor-league deal when there were other suitors is an awfully nice get, so long as they use him properly: Fourth or fifth outfielder and fantastic speed off the bench. My great fear is that Cito Gaston becomes so enamoured of Gathright’s wheels that he makes him the team’s lead-off man despite that sterling .327 career OBP.
-John Buck is a nice stopgap catcher; cheaper than and almost as good as a guy like Miguel Olivo. There really wasn’t much out there.
More to come, very obviously – and there’s a good chance I’ll be on the Fan590 from 9-10 AM Tuesday to take your phone calls with Mike Hogan. Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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Hey Mike,
Even though we’ve all known this time was coming for months now, it’s very difficult not to feel shaken-up a little bit. While there are certainly a ton of great players out there, and a ton more on the way every year, it’s difficult to imagine the Jays with another guy quite like the Good Doctor.
I won’t comment on the deal itself (as we don’t know who’s going where, and it won’t really matter much for the Jays for at least a couple of years), but, if you get a chance to talk to Roy in the near future, let him know that there are a bunch of us out here that fully appreciated every inning he pitched for our guys, and that we’ll miss him greatly, but that we wish him all the best.
This is going to feel very weird to type, but, Go Phillies Go!
(I won’t soon forgive myself for not making it back to Canada this past year to watch him pitch live one more time.)
MW: They’ve only very rarely had a guy like Halladay in the past (Clemens, maybe Stieb) – guys like him just don’t come along that often.
- BrandenIt sounds like a good way to go. I’m glad Halladay isn’t pitching in the AL. I’m especially glad he isn’t pitching for the Yankees or the BoSox. The prospects sound fine. It was a trade that had to happen and I’ve been all over this board saying that we had to trade him.
But I have to say I feel a little sick…
MW: Chicken soup is good for that.
- isabella reyesHi Mike
You said above that the Jay’s may get either Taylor or Brown. Which one would you rather see in a possible deal?
MW: They both look like studs, but Brown is probably the slightly better prospect. But it seems the Jays won’t get either one.
- AdamHopefully this trade works out better than the David Cone trade. What’s Marty Janzen up to now? That is the last big deal where the Jays sought prospects in exchange for a stud player.
Legacy wise, Halladay is the best Jays pitcher ever. He pitched in a hitter’s park in the super-talented AL East. His consistency and excellence are unmatched in the game.
More than anything, his departure makes me sad that, despite Halladay’s dominance every fifth day, in his absence from the mound the Jays could never play with enough consistency to be in a pennant race, even once. That’s a waste. The Jays will go a long time before they have so talented a pitcher.
- AsherMike, I am having a hard time trying to figure out why Dominic Brown is more highly regarded than Michael Taylor. Everything that I have read about Taylor is that he is a huge talent, 5 tool player, hits for average, huge power, great speed and rocket for a arm. Some of the Philly media are holding their breath that the Phil’s don’t include him in any deal. But some media outlets are reporting that the Jays want Brown. In your opinion how does Brown compare with Taylor?? Thanks
MW: See above. There’s a real difference with Taylor doing what he did at 23 and Brown doing what he did at 21.
- Chris PalmquistHi Mike
I would like your thougts on my way of making the baseball playoff setup a little fairer for everybody
I have heard every argument for balance schedule one division more teams what do you think of this one.. The only argument would be travel but I dont think that would be all that difficult So one East time would have to play one West team maybe two 6 more games
Heres my proposal Keep the unbalanced schedule
All four playoff teams would form Division Tom Cheek for the 2010 season
so New York Boston California and MIneesota one division
The Mike Wilner division would consist of the next three best teams and the two worst teams
Detroit Texas Seattle Cleveland Kansas City
Buck Martinez division would make up the rest
Tampa Toronto Balltimore Seattle Oakland
They could start working on the schedule the day after the regular season
This setup would make every game for every team meaningful right through September without adding teams to the playoffs
Everyone would be battling not only for the division championship and wild card but for next seasons slotting
The lower teams would continue to fight to try and stay out of the second division where seemingly the competetion would be tougher
It would change from year to year and I think would be realy exciting wether you had a 200 million dollar payroll or 55 million
We as blue jay fans would be looking at a whole different scenario for the upcoming season and quite frankly a whole lot more fun
In Closing I think it would keep way more fans interested in thier local teams longer
Tim Stacey
MW: But why not have every team in the league have the same chance at a playoff spot? That means balancing the schedule and getting rid of the divisions.
- Tim StaceyMike,
If the 3 rumoured prospects are true then this is a horrible trade for the Jays. Aumont is generally ranked 6 to 9 in the Seattle system and plumetting fast, he is no longer starting and is projected as a bullpen arm. D’Arnaud is anywhere from 4 to out of the top 10 in the Phillies system depending on the report. He wasn’t even on the radar as a top Phillies prospect until they traded 4 guys consider better than him to the Tribe. Taylor is the best prospect in this trade but still way behind Brown and Drabek in the Philly organization. I respect your opinion and work alot, but you are blindly optimistic if you think these guys are top level prospects. This looks like a rookie GM got absolutely schooled in first major MLB move as he traded a future hall of famer for three guys that aren’t even top 100 MLB prospects according to Baseball America…
Brutal…
MW: Sigh
- DanIf it’s only Michael Taylor, Phillipe Aumont and Travis D’Arnoud, then this is disappointing because I was hoping to see at least one guy who has had some good service in the majors like Happ or Morrow. But maybe there is more to this. Perhaps an extra prospect and Overbay to Seattle as they have had some reported interest in Lyle.
MW: Morrow has too much service time to be of interest to the Jays, and Drabek has a much higher ceiling than Happ.
- DomenickMike,
I read somewhere that Drabek was going to be included in the deal. Apparently, Drabek is some kind of super pitcher prospect. What are your opinions? Is he as good as a prospect as David Price was?
MW: Brett Cecil is as good a prospect as David Price was (kind of). Drabek has a shot to be a front-of-the-rotation guy, but Price was a first overall pick out of college.
- KeithVery sad to see Roy Halladay leave Toronto the best player in my opinion ever came to Toronto!
Mike, the young players that we are getting back are they starters? Or we still don’t know what they can really do!
This is a very hard move for Alex.A but, I rather get something than nothing!
MW: They never would have wound up with nothing. They guys who are coming back have the potential to be elite players.
- Jayz FanIsn’t it all a bit strange about Cliff Lee? There would certainly be a good 1-2 punch there if he remained.
And why oh why did the Blue Jays need to bring back Jose Bautista? Surely there is somebody else that could better use the playing time, somebody maybe 10-15 years younger. It might be a good idea if he was pegged for a strict utility role but Cito will probably have him in there for 130 games. Will 2010 carry on from 2009? You have to wonder.
MW: I hope 2010 is different, in that I hope Travis Snider will get a legit shot and we won’t see the Dave Delluccis, Kevin Millarsand Russ Adamses of the world. I don’t think there will be anyone playing in the majors next season who is 10 years younger than Bautista, never mind 15.
- Rob MMike:
Sounds like a good deal for Jays depending on which prospects we get. Give AA a ton of credit for being able to put together such an interesting and complex deal.
I also find it interesting that three of Pat Gillick’s team are involved in such a huge swap.
Keep up the great work, I love listening to your insight and comments and look forward to hearing you 2morrow.
glen
MW: The Gillick connection is definitely cool (two of JP’s teams are involved, too!).
- Glen CooperGood day Michael, It’s been a while. I Going to make another pitch to get you to join Twitter. If only just to let people know when you have updated the blog. You’re my go to source for reliable Jays info and excellent analysis. But sometimes I forget about you and come on you’re missing out on some hilarious Dirk Hayhurst tweets. Even Bob Elliot tweets, what is it you and Griffin have a anti-twitter pact?
Anyway, it will be very interesting to see how this deal shapes up when all is said and done. Let’s hope it doesn’t fall apart.
Thanks Mike
MW: There’s no anti-Twitter pact.
- Chris ThompsonMerry merry, happy happy.
A bittersweet day. Aumont and Brown would be a good start to any deal; it will always be strange to see Halladay in something other than Blue Jays’ colours.
Favourite moment: 9/27/03: Halladay gunning for a club record 22nd win. Jays lead by a run in the 5th: With 2 out, Jhonny Peralta dashes for the plate as a pitch got away from the catcher. Halladay races in to cover the plate and tags out Peralta. Then Halladay pumps his fist emphatically and roars in one of the few on-field shows of emotion I’ve ever seen him display.
Of course, he pitched a CG for the win.
Can you narrow down your one favourite moment?
MW: One? That’s really tough to narrow down. A couple of years ago, when John McDonald grabbed a ball up the middle and flipped it to the second baseman (Scutaro?) who fired it to first and Halladay actually laughed on the mound watching it – that was cool. So was the line drive off his forehead to Scott Rolen for an out in Pittsburgh last year.
- AdrianHey Mike,
I think we should remain hopeful about the Doc trade.
There are some intriguing talents who just happen to be Canadians in Seattle. Don’t you think the Jays would want outfielder and B.C. native Michael Saunders as well? Morrow, another guy mentioned in the trade, has a great arm. And Brown is a top 50 Baseball America prospect. Hopefully, we’ll get some volume in the deal, refurbishing a depleted farm system.
Getting Buck, however, is a real bummer. He’ll be a season-long reminder that we’re a sinking second division club — a 220 hitter who never takes a walk and a so-so receiver.
Everyone else in the East has improved. The Yanks with Granderson. Boston with Lackey. Baltimore with Millwood. Tampa Bay finally has a closer (Soriano). We’ve just lost two of our top five players from last year — Halladay and Scutaro.
It’s going to be a long season.
MW: I would think the standings would be more of a reminder that the Jays are a second-division team. Buck’s not going to hurt anybody. The danger of going for volume in a deal is that in so doing, you’ll generally lose out on value.
- stevei for one am sad to see doc go…
that being said, i am excited for
the upcoming year and looking forward
to seeing the jays compete
it’s exciting times to be a jays fan
and am hoping AA is cherishing his
opportunity
come on february…
- little dHey Mike,
No doubt, this has been a big day for the Jays.
Though, not that this isn’t shaping up to be quite a deal, but I am struck with how foolish the Phillies have been about getting Roy.
Last year – though no one really knows what Riccardi was asking for – it seemed like the Jays were asking for Drabek, Taylor/Brown, Gose? i think, and maybe Donald. The Phillies instead chose to deal for Lee, costing them Jason Knapp, Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson.
Now they turn around and trade Lee for Halladay and so its rumored Aumount.
So, in order to get Halladay, Aumount and Ben Fransico the Phillies have traded Jason Knapp, Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, D’Arnauld
Drabek, and Taylor. Thats their #1,2,3,4,8,10 and 11th best prospects (according to Sickels)
Seems like a costly do-over for the Phillies when the original incarnation of the Halladay deal would only have cost them their #4,2/6, 11 and 17th best prospects.
I know baseballamerica has a different evaluation, but Sickels has the top 20 for free, but the point i think remains: the Phillies made a big mistake by not pulling the trigger last year.
All this though is dependant on the deal actually going through though which is as of now not yet official.
MW: Don’t forget, too, that the Phillies give themselves a much better shot in the World Series if they pull the trigger last year. They also get Tyson Gillies and Juan Ramirez, it appears.
- Daveone question: do the jays do this deal if aumont is not canadian? it just seems as though paul beeston is enamoured with having canadians (aa, aumont, and perhaps the other prospect saunders). I’m all for canadians but as a bonus, talent should be first and foremost.
MW: Turns out the Jays aren’t getting Aumont.
- Rahim Sunderjimike I find it amazing that you can find a positive out of a negative. Blue Jay’s brass has shut down ANY interest in this team that was thinly watched at best; and you look forward to prospects? Try to fill the seats now Alex! To quote Jerry Howarth on the future of Blue Jay’s fan base “yes sir,their she goes”.
MW: You’d have preferred keeping Halladay and getting two first-round draft picks in 2011? Also – more people attend Blue Jays games than any other sporting event in Canada. How’s that thinly-watched at best?
- dave f.Hi Mike, how about Phillies Happ??..I heard he was in the deal.
MW: Nope.
- Ganesh S.Mike,
Who in your opinion is the better pitching prospect of the two: Phillipe Aumont or Kyle Drabek? Which one would you like to see the Jays get for Halladay?
MW: I don’t know, they both seem pretty studly. I’d have been happy with either one.
- Jeff G.hi Mike Rich Griffin just endorsed the Halladay trade eve tho it isn’t official isn’t that a bit odd?
MW: No – what’s odd is that he was going with Happ and Brown for a while there.
- sharonHey mike,
I grew up in toronto and have been a die hard blue jays fan since day 1. Today is the end. I am cutting all ties with the jays and am finoshed with the team forever. I love your work and reporting but sadly since your only following the jays, I will cease to read your blog and listen to you from hear on out. Good luck in your broadcasting career!
MW: Sigh.
- NitinEven though the trade is not official, it seems to me the Jays are not getting enough from the trade. They should be getting at least 4 players if not 5 between the Philies and the Mariners. What I really don’t like,if the rumours are true is that we have to pay 6 million of Roy’s contract. Something is wrong when we have to pay to get rid of the best pitcher in baseball. It seems to be a Toronto thing. We always seem to pay money to get rid of someone. Get serious Paul and Alex. After the trade you have to go after a few free agents, not superstars but there are a few quality players that are available. This would create some credibility with your fans,otherwise your crowds will still be down. You cannot snow the baseball fans anymore.Only the Leafs can get away with that.
MW: I don’t think they’re trying to snow the fans at all. The money thing is a bit confusing, but it shows that the Jays are willing to pay to get what they want, no?
- AngeloThe poison that baseball has become. Yankees,Red Sox and everyone else. Forget the Blue Jays trading Halliday, we no they are second class citizens. But what the Phillies did must be a bitter pill to swallow for their fans. They aquire Halliday but trade Lee Baseball is no longer about every team having a chance to win and when your average fan realizes this people will stop buying tickets as i did 20 yrs ago. Same on baseball with no salary cap.
MW: You stopped buying tickets 20 years ago? Man, you missed out on some good Blue Jays baseball.
- david mackinHey Mike,
The latest rumour that appears fairly credible is that the Jays actually land Kyle Drabek. I’m happiest about this mostly because the Phillies have been so resistant to giving him up. I have two questions from this. I know he’s good but do you think he really is as good as the Phillies have built him up to be? And, while Drabek and Michael Taylor look like they’re in the deal, this isn’t the same deal the Jays reportedly asked for in July(particularly with no JA Happ). I know it’s hypothetical but do you think the Phillies would have agreed to this same deal in July and would JP have gone for it?
MW: The Phillies wouldn’t trade Drabek in July, though it might have been different if they were getting Aumont back.
- ChrisI know Roy had to be traded and getting full value was impossible. But receiving just prospects (no matter how good) just doesn’t feel like enough to see the franchise walk away.
And what’s with the Jys having to eat 6M large as well???
Good luck Roy, you were the best.
- GaryI’m listening to Mike Wilner on the BullPen with Mike Hogan and LOL’ed@the first few callers. They rather have JA Happ? After watching him in the playoffs and walking in the go-ahead run in the 8th that basically seals it for the Dodgers and they want this guy? Ok granted that’s just one inning but I still don’t see this guy as anything above a #3 starter. Michael taylor and Kyle Drabek are as good as we are going to get for Roy Halladay aand they’re pretty good. Sure, they’re prospects but the ceiling is high on these guys. If we were to get established MLB players in return, they won’t be as young and at best they’ll be middle of the rotation-type guys and middling average major leaguers. Nothing is guaranteed with prospets but even if just ONE of these guys fulfill their promise it’ll be a good trade for the Jays for what’s essentially one year of Roy Hallday.
MW: You make a lot of good points, but basing your opinion of J.A. Happ on one inning of one game is ridiculous.
- badbloodMichael … who would you rather have, Drabek or Happ? Will Drabek be in the mix for ’10?
MW: Drabek, and probably not.
- CaseyHi Mike,
Wasn’t there supposed to be some really big news at the winter meetings? News that had nothing to do with a trade. I forget which reporter mentioned this… Do you know what I’m talking about?
Also, Halladay is set to sign an extension for 3 years, with one or two “vesting options”, what are those?
Thanks,
Diego
MW: There was supposed to be some “big news” that came out of the Meetings, though I can’t remember who talked about that (one of the Prospectus guys?). There was an announcement about centralizing stats-keeping, I think, and another this week about a special committee for on-field matters, and also the sale of the Rangers. A “vesting option” is an option that ceases to be optional when certain criteria are met.
- DiegoMy comment for now is thank goodness we got Drabek instead of Happ. For all you fans that wanted Happ, he would be at best a 5th starter in the AL East. Please educate yourself.
MW: You say this with such authority – what are you basing it on?
- tony43I’m with McCown all the way on this one Mike, and if memory serves you felt the same way last fall.
It takes a lot of baseball knowledge, PLUS a lot of money, to even have a chance to compete in the AL East, and if Rogers is not willing to get involved, SELL THE TEAM. The fans bought into a building period of some years duration; do they actually think the fans will buy into it again? I don’t, and I am/was a fan. They should have gone for it this year (and every year), kept Roy, tried to resign him, and gone after free agents, trades, whatever necessary to prove to him (and to us) that they were serious about contending for the foreseeable future. I’m sure Rogers wants to see more people in the stands and hear more buzz around the team- here’s a tip- PLAY MEANINGFUL GAMES LATE INTO THE SEASON.
I bought tickets to an average of ten games over the last twenty five years, and am in no rush whatsoever to repeat that trend. I am sure I am not alone (and I wish them luck with season tickets and suites).
If this is Beeston’s idea, it’s a bad one, but this bizarre farewell year for Cito is a bad idea as well.
Your thoughts Mike?
MW: I’m not as upset as you are. I would have liked to have seen them keep Halladay, trade some youth for high-priced talent and sign a couple of free agents, but they didn’t feel as though they could get good enough quickly enough to make Halladay stay, so this is the only other course of action.
- RobHi Mike,
First off, I love your show. Whenever my father and I come back from a game we always listen to you.
I just wanted your opinion on the Halladay deal and I know it’s not done yet but from the talks, do you think we are getting enough back?
Also, from the guys that we are getting back in the deal, how many of them will actually crack the Jays roster this year?
MW: Out of Spring Training? Maybe only Wallace, but likely none of them. What do I think? The Jays did very well, given the circumstances.
- JordonAre you as sick as me listening to Bobcat cut up Anthopolous for not spending $120 mill this year like the Yankees, and how that means the jays are doomed to fail for years to come? Did he honestly expect the jays to sign Beltre, Bay and Lackey then poof!, win the World Series? I honestly think the jays are working the best possible deal they can get here, and it is absolutely necessary to get this team to where they need to be.
MW: I haven’t actually heard Bob on any of the Halladay stuff. I should listen more.
- Chris B.I am looking at the trade again and I see the Phillies and Jays coming out pretty well. Actually it’s 2 separate trades not a 3-way(Jays/Phillies and Phillies/Mariners). Why the news media report it as a 3-way I have no idea. There’s nothing from Toronto going to Seattle and vice versa.
Which leads me to Seattle – what were they thinking? They get 1 year of Cliff Lee and traded away their top prospects (Lee is likely to test the free agency market after next season). Reminds me of the Bedard trade with Baltimore. Look at all the good young players the Orioles have now as a result of that trade. They did get Figgins tho, a player Wilner was high on but I’m somewhat lukewarm after the 2009 playoffs.
If this trade turns out well for the Jays, we will have to thank the Mariners because if they hadn’t come in and taken Lee off the Phillies hands and trading away their top prospects, the Halladay trade with the Phillies would probably not go through.
The Phillies lost a couple of high prospects but bailed themselves out with good ones from Seattle. In the end they got Halladay with an extended contract who is a workhorse and better pitcher than Lee.
MW: I think the Mariners see a window to take the A.L. West now, which is why they were willing to give up so much for Lee. You’re right, though, it’s not a three- or even a four-way trade. It’s a group of separate trades, though none could have been made without all the others happening.
- badbloodHey Mike,
So the supposed Drabek, Taylor and d’Arnaud for Halladay is not a 3 team trade. The Jays are not receiving anything from the Seattle Mariners which I think is terrible. Drabek is good and so is Taylor, but dosen’t Toronto have 2 or 3 catching prospects in the minors and how much better d’Arnaud compared to them. I also heard that Toronto will be paying $6million of Halladays contract next year.
RECAP, we are trading and paying for Halladay to the Phillies (who have also been able to extend Halladay for another 3 years) for 3 prospects.
This trade can not proceed unless the Jays also get Aumont in the trade. If this trade goes through the way it is, Rubén Amaro is Execiutive of the year…again and perhaps the greatest GM in history. He will essentially loose nothing to acquire Halladay. In other sports, teams expect other teams to give something up just to talk extensions. One of the Mariners prospects need to come back to the Jays!!!
Halladay for Drabek, Aumont, Taylor and a prospect.
MW: The trade is going to proceed without the Jays getting Aumont, it seems. The Jays like Drabek more.
- Max LI am glad I am not a Phillies fan (OK, maybe of fan of number 99, HA!) because I would be furious with the GM. This is the package that was too expesive in July. Now that they lose to the Evil Empire in the WS, the GM is flailing to win back support by doing what he should have done months ago and also giving up Lee, which is stupid.
I will say one thing, I hope the media is happy that they got what they wanted. they took the Halladay story and beat it to death so ba it put his wife in tears and forced the GREATEST pitcher the Jays have ever had and backed him into a corner. I blame the U.S. media for most of the hype, they are always trying to pry great atheletes off of Canadian teams.
Thanks for the work Mike and Happy Hanukkah to you an yours.
MW: Thanks, but nobody backed Halladay into a corner – he wanted out. You should talk to the commenter above you, though. He thinks Ruben Amaro should be executive of the year.
- T.J.Mike,
I can’t help to think this reported 3 prospect deal isn’t enough. It may be splitting hairs, but when you trade the best pitcher in baseball you need more than 1 blue chip prospect in Drabek, an outfielder and a project in the the catcher they got. To me we needed to see something more along the lines of what Anaheim was reported to be offering, or at least get another arm from the M’s in the deal.
MW: What Anaheim was reported to be offering was probably not on the table once they found out there was no Halladay extension coming, and those were guys who already had 3+ years of major-league service time. The Jays get two massively blue-chip prospects in the deal, plus a first-round catcher. It’s a good haul.
- Chris in HamiltonWhat are your thoughts on Brett Wallce?
MW: Phenomenal hitter.
- ScottMike,
First let me say that I hate any deal that takes Halladay off the Blue Jays. That said, I understand that the deal HAS to be done. And if it HAS to be done, I think that getting 2 of the top 26 ranked prospects(Taylor & Drabek) when our organization doesn’t have a single prospoect in the top 50 is a good deal. If the reports are correct I really do not uderstand the cash that is part of it, but then again, maybe 6 mil is what we had to pay to get some good prospects and keep Halladay out of the East!
I am quite excited about getting a prospect like Taylor, a 6’6″ 250lbs player who hit .320 and stole 21 bases last year in the minors. Sounds a lot like a Dave Winfield type player, hopefully it works out even close to that way. Drabek from the reports I have seen has a chance to be a front of the rotation pitcher. The catcher reported is an A ball prospect and is too far away to project.
I am angry about this trade though. But, my anger is directed at those who failed to produce a team that Halladay would have re-signed with. Not the current management that is trying to fill cupboards that are bare (sound familiar?).
MW: Sorry that you got excited about Taylor.
- TomaWith a few names still up in the air, I’m hesistant to pass final judgment on the deal, however, it does look like a solid return from my perspective. Nothing will be worth losing Doc in the near-term, but it was unfortunately, a deal that looked to be inevitable. Kudos to AA for keeping things close to the vest, but most importantly thanks to Doc for his time here. A phenomenal player to watch, and by all accounts a phenomenal person off the field as well. We just lost arguably the greatest Jay of all time. ALready looking at my travel plans to T.O. for the weekend the Phillies come to town. Someone start painting a “32″ on that ring of honour. The ink should still be wet on Doc’s retirement papers when the Jays decide to honour him and put him alongside those other greats.
- WDMHi Mike….in the Star today they listed Halladay’s accomplishments and showed who holds the club record. For most of the categories, Dave Stieb’s name kept coming up as the leader. Who should be remembered as the best Jay starter?
MW: Stieb was great, without question. So was Halladay. Given the eras in which they played and the offenses with which they had to deal, though, I’d give the nod to Halladay.
- mikeMike,
Looks like doing any observations on this trade are useless until it is actually done, since it is chaging every with every update. One question though, is this Brett Alexander Wallace the same 6’2″ 205lbs Brett A. Wallace that was drafted by the Jays in 2005 in the 42nd round? Same B-Day so I assume it is
MW: Yes, it is.
- Tomamichael,
- darrell bishopas it’s been sounding like all the details & particulars of this 3 team deal are not yet finalized, it kinda seemed to me that perhaps there might possibly be more coming the blue jay way. (beatles) but i know you know that…..
maybe one of those seattle prospects, perhaps another minor leaguer from the philly organization.
but i guess it’s sounding like what is being speculated on is what the deal is.
if so i’ll tell you what, i’m not going to sit here & judge whether this is a good deal for the jays or not. obviously no way of assessing that at this point is there?
but i think there does seem to be one thing that’s pretty certain. this philly gm kinda made out like a bandit in a way did he not?
cause’ the recap here isn’t all that hard to summarize it seems.
he gets halladay. an upgrade from lee most would agree. and gets the signed contract extension he coveted. he gets the jays to pay whatever it is, $6m of the contract.
and he gets 2-3 prospects back from seattle for the 3 he gave up to get halladay.
can you imagine micheal if 1-2 of those particular players turn out to be better than the ones he gave up.
could happen. they’re apparently pretty high organizational prospects from the mariners is sounds like.
so, replaces a starter with a better starter & locks him up long term, $6m gets put in his britches to help pay for it & in the end maybe gets all his prospects or gives up just 1 in the end in quantity.
anyway, cudos to the guy i guess.
he did good………
Mike,
You said that you hoped that you would get a farewell tour from the Doc when his contract wuth the Phollies expires in 2016. Obviously, you didn’t read that it was only a 3 year deal, which has been reported everywhere.
I thought you would be up to date on that. I guess not.
MW: At the time, I had thought it was a three-year deal with two vesting options, which could have taken it to 2015. Oh, well.
- DerekIt was always a joy to watch Roy pitch, and it was never a late night. ;-) Just a shame that his excellence was wasted by a management group that couldn’t build a team around the best pitcher of this decade.
MW: They often built a very good team around him, it was just never good enough.
- JohnThe era of lower expectations has arrived. Any players we get from Philly/Mariners will be prospects with a 50/50 chance of being decent MLB players.
We signed Buck but don’t even think Jason Bay would ever sign in Toronto (the rational posters on this blog knew this along time ago…eh hem *cough*)
MW: How did you come to 50/50?
- Stevemichael,
- darrell bishopso the flip of the one pick to perhaps get this brett wallace kid out of oakland sounds like it’s a good way to go for the blue jays if actually happening.
just read a few scouting reports on the guy. man, he sounds like just what the doctor ordered.
high ave./great on base %/ has power/can knock in runs.
the one report i read thought that he was the best hitter in the entire 2008 draft that yr. nice…..
and the kid came from the st. louis organization. so have to believe he came to the a’s organization in the holliday trade last yr. correct?
obviously the philly prospect going the other way from us is a real good one as well. at least in the a’s eyes……..
with supposed rumors being true. do you think the jays could of got a better package like a no 1 overall pick or so from teams other than the phillies but they were mandated by halladay’s no trade clause and his wish to go to philly?
MW: Teams that are interested in Halladay don’t have first overall picks to throw around, for starters, and it’s “could HAVE”.
- nickIt’s not official but it appears to be Travis D’Arnoud, Michael Taylor and Kyle Drabek. I did some internet research like a lot of Blue Jay fans are probably doing and have found that most experts see a higher upside with D’Arnoud then Lou Marson. That’s exciting! Everybody knows Drabek’s unlimited potential. Rumours suggest that Taylor will moved to Oakland for Brett Wallace and that can potentially satisfy a huge hole that the team has at the corner spots. I’m not crazy about Overbay or Encarnacion. Whether it is wrong or right to commit to a rebuild, this is a city that will definitely support it as the fans in this city will watch a winner not great players. The attendance did not significantly increase when Halladay or Clemens were on the mound. Wins will dictate success for this organization.
MW: Yes, they will.
- DomenickHey Mike,
Plenty has and will be said regarding the Halladay trade. Just wanted to add that I loved the tribute and especially hearing Tom Cheek call some of the Doc’s biggest games as he wrapped up the 2003 Cy Young. It gave me chills.
MW: Thanks! I was really happy to be able to get some of Tom’s calls in there.
- CoryHi Mike,
I was going to write “waiting for trade to be announced” but who knows when you’ll post these and it will be out of date.
1) Catching: A three headed monster of Buck, Castro and Chavez (depending on who’s in LV). I’ve got a bad feeling about this… Will the D justify the bats or is this just a case of ignoring the BA and focusing on any offensive positives these guys could bring.
2) Earle Weaver and others always tried to bring rookies in platoons first. Is that a possibility with Wallace at 3rd? With EE or JB?
3) Random question; did you happen to see Pirate Radio? Very strange movie; some parts great, some parts brutal. The trailer is very interesting slice/dice from the film.
Thanks, trying to stay warm in Edmonton.
MW: 1 – It doesn’t matter, they’re all just placeholders. 2 – Wallace can hit lefties, there’s no need to platoon him. Cito probably will, though. 3 – No, I haven’t. I heard bad things about it, but I’ll probably check it out when it comes to DVD/On Demand.
- Wilhey mike;
Good to see halladay fianally get a chance to win or at least play in the post season, drebek, taylor, and d’arnaud and hopefully another prospect from seattle would be nice, but why pay 6 million on the old contract? trading halladay is enough and the phillies are in a better fiscal situation than toronto. Wish we would keep overbay as this is his contract year and he will play better rest assured, like john buck but why not offer rod barajas a contract, he hit 19 hrs and would come cheap? gathright and bautista returning is great and if wells can have a respectful season we may be able to trade him and his grandiose contract to the yankees! like the gonsalas and johnny mac signings, hopefully anthopolous can sign some hitting-delgado is available and would fill the viod nicely left by halladay- only if he’s cheap and platoons with randy ruiz at dh. overall anthopolous is diong what ricarrdi could not, fix the team and make it semi competitive with a look to future contention. thanks for the halladay tribute mike and i’m voting for mr cheek, keep up the astute work.
- robert.sIf the Jays wanted d’Arnaud, who is a minor-league catcher and seems no better or worse than the two we already have in the system, has he been acquired like Taylor was to flip one of the kiddie catchers to another team—maybe packaged with a major-leaguer like Encarnacion or Overbay? If Wallace plays in 2010, then surely one of those two is surplus to requirements.
MW: I don’t think you can have enough catching on the way up – we have seen tons of Jays’ catchers of the future miss completely, so I don’t know that D’Arnaud was picked up to flip. I do, however, believe there are plenty more deals to be done this winter.
- isabella reyesWell this is a sad day, but it had to happen. I’m not dissapointed by the return, I like the Wallace trade as well.
Do you see the Jays looking for another outfielder via trade or someone like Ryan Church now?
Overbay’s days must be numbered…
Is the acquisition of an experienced starter to eat up innings on the readar now, as I’m assuming Drabek will start in Vegas?
Thanks
MW: I’m assuming the same of Drabek, though he might go to New Hampshire for a bit. I think they’d like a veteran guy to be on the staff, but not someone at whom they have to throw any money or years. I would like to see the Jays bring in a Church or a Jack Cust, for sure, but the deals have to make sense for them financially and term-wise.
- ClintHey Mike – Brett Wallace was actually drafted by the Jays in 2005. 42nd round. I guess AA has a great memory for players huh? I’d really like to see him at third base – do you think Butterfield is up to this challenge?
He makes the roster out of spring training, or June at the latest.
MW: I don’t think the fact that they’re dealing for Wallace has anything to do with the fact they wasted a draft pick on him four years ago. I have never seen him play, so I don’t know where his defense needs to improve, but he won’t find a better guy with whom to work than Butter.
- Charles AttardMike,
Toronto is on the verge of losing the greatest sports talent ever in this town
I watched him pitch 15 or 16 times live. He didn’t win them all but his talent never dwindled in any outing.
“Doc’s pitching we’ll be at the pub for victory drinks at 9:20″.
What a professional, this guy never let us down.
Some of his best Gems, were the no decisions. I wish I had seen him pitch every game. (Never forget the Burnett comeback thrashing)
This is a reason sports will see a decline because it is now a businesss. There will be a lot of empty seats and one will be mine.
Keep up the good work Mike, talk to you in April.
MW: Sports is NOW a business? I guess you’d prefer the players be indentured servants as they were 40 years ago.
- LindsayI for one really like this deal if in fact we are getting Drabek, Wallace from the A’s and D’Arnoud but I have read some scouts takes on each and I’m a little concerned.
I’ve heard the Phillies hype Drabek like he’s the next best pitcher but I have read scouting reports that say he’s “a #3 starter” and I’m concerned about the fact that he has had Tommy John Surgery. Your thoughts?
Also I have heard that Wallace is to much of a defensive liability to put him at third base. Is this true? If so and he can only play 1st base what are the chances that Overbay gets traded in the offseason?
I still think (hope) that Drabek can team up with Cecil, Romero, R-Zep, and give us a scary good (not to mention young) rotation. And thats not even including Litsch, Marcum, McGowan, Stewart, Mills, and Reider Gonzalez all of whom are possible starters.
MW: I have heard that Drabek is at least a #3 starter – or so the often-wrong prognosticators say – and the fact that he’s had Tommy John doesn’t bother me at all. At least he’s gotten it out of the way! The Jays would like to deal Overbay regardless of where Wallace plays.
- JaysonForgot to ask your take on the pitching for next year. What do you see as the most likely starting 5 for 2010? Where are Marcum, McGowan projected to be next year? And why don’t I hear more about Litsch being in the future of this club? I really liked him in the back end of the rotation in 2008. Will he be healthy for spring training?
Really appreciate the blog and what you do for us Jays fans during the winter. Keep up the good work Mike.
MW: Litsch won’t be healthy by Spring Training – maybe the all-star break. I think the rotation (right now) for 2010 is Marcum, Romero, Rzepczynski, Cecil and Richmond or Purcey.
- JaysonI remember 4 other superstar 3 for 1 trades involving Canadian teams. To me they were not bad but in all cases the team that got the superstar triumphped. Not that the BJs had a choice.
Your thoughts on this one vs.?
Rusty Staub for Ken Singleton +2.
Gary Carter for Hubie Brookes +2.
Roger Clemmons for David Wells +2.
MW: It’s WAY too early to compare this trade to any of those.
- CJFantastic tribute to Doc, Mike!
At this point, what’s the pitching matchup for Opening Day ’10 looking like vs. the Rangers? Harden vs. Romero?
MW: Thanks! And it could be, but I think Marcum gets the nod.
- JordieMike,
I’m pretty angry about the fact that the Jays are kicking in $6mil for Halladay’s salary. So we trade away one of the best pitchers in baseball but still have to pay for the Phillies to take him? What?
If they Jays had to do that, they should have gotten an additional prospect or two back or perhaps the Phils could have thrown in Blanton (since no one wants him at around $7mil anyways) instead of paying the straight up $6mil. The cost to the Jays would be about an extra $1mil and the Jays get an innings eater for a young rotation.
I just don’t understand the Jay’s interest in big DH/1B types. They have Snider and soon, Wallace. How many 1B/DH types can you have on a team? Lind, Snider, Wallace…..
The Jays lack solid young athletic players with good speed and this trade doesn’t address that. What I hope to see is possibly Downs/Accardo/Overbay/Encarnacion/Tallet/Camp traded to address that. They might as well have a full fire sale as opposed to a wishy washy team for 2010.
MW: I don’t think you can get anything of value back for most of those guys, and I think Snider is a fine outfielder. As for Blanton, it’s a good point. I’m guessing the Phillies didn’t want to throw him in, because you’re right – he’d basically be a free inning-eater for the Jays.
- JoachimHi Mike,
I think the thing that made this trade workable from the Phillies’ standpoint is/was Halladay’s willingness to sign yet another below market deal. The Phillies are basically getting a ridiculous bargain both in terms of annual value and term. Amazing.
If Halladay would have hit the open market after the coming season I’m thinking he most likely would have become a $23-25 million a year guy with at least a guaranteed five year term (i.e., assuming he was healthy).
MW: More than likely.
- Jamiemichael,
and 1 other observation to make re: the phillies & their gm & a job well done etc..
this seems to be as perfect an example as you’ll find of doing very well when dealing from a place of strength.
a classic example as far as i can see. or at least sure looks that way in the end doesn’t it?…
MW: The Phillies, it appears, wind up with Halladay, Aumont, Gillies, Juan Ramirez and $6 million for Lee, Drabek, Taylor and D’Arnaud. I wouldn’t say that’s a perfect example of doing very well when dealing from a position of strength.
- darrell bishop1. I like the deal. Always liked Wallace. I was hoping he’d land to them in his draft year. (Gotta wonder what kind of bonus it would have taken to sign him out of high school. My guess is less than the 6 million they’re paying Doc. lol. But anyways.)
2. I’m sure AA’s got more things in the works, but as it stands now it looks like Vegas could have some nice starting pitchers and a good first baseman, catcher (and possible DH if Dopirak doesn’t stick.)
3. On that note: where does Dopirak sit now? He didn’t make BA’s recent top ten. I’m guessing that’s because he’s 25, but he has had a good last two years and looks pretty close to my couch scouting.
4. Who will be our leadoff and two hitter this year? Maybe McCoy (if he can play short) in one of the spots? Vernon? The Jays have got a lot of 3 through 9 type bats Mike.
5. I’m agreed in hoping Gathright isn’t our 1 or 2. Friggin’ Cito man. He’s a scary dude for this type of team. Joey Gathright might be our new Kevin Millar. How does a Gathright/Snider- Cito-style-quasi-platoon sound to you?
MW: 1 – Seeing how he slipped to the 42nd round, he was never going to sign out of high school. 2 – Who’s the first baseman? I’m assuming Wallace plays third in Vegas. 3 – The Jays don’t seem to think all that highly of him, but he’ll get a look in the spring along with Ruiz. 4 – McCoy isn’t going to be a starter, and likely won’t make the team. I’d expect that Jose Bautista would be the lead-off man, though it could be Joey Gathright. 5 – Terrible.
- peteSorry to keep pestering you, but here’s my really-fun-to-watch-but-never-going-to-happen-opening-day-but-maybe-in-September-but-probably-not-because-of-relatively-obvious-defensive-deficiencies- line-up:
1.McCoy SS
2. VW CF (smelling a come back!)
3. Lind LF
4. Snider RF
5. Hill 2B
6. Ruiz DH
7. Wallace 3B
8. Dopirak 1B
9. Arencibia C
Could set MLB record for errors. But they’d be fun to watch at the dish.
MW: Don’t hold your breath.
- peteMike,
There has to be a way for you to sort through the submitted comments and only post those that have even the slightest value to your readers. Some of the inane comments that come through must leave you shaking your head, but as a readers I’m tired of having to sort through reams and reams of jibberish to get to the 5 or 6 quality comments and replies. Please, please, please – for the sake of your readers with half a brain, ignore some of these dimwits.
Cheers, and happy holidays.
MW: Believe it or not, I do delete the inane ones.
- RobMW: Sports is NOW a business? I guess you’d prefer the players be indentured servants as they were 40 years ago.
It’s my understanding that indentured servants became free agents after working for a specified amount of time, unlike players bound by the reserve clause.
But re the point you appear to be making re those hard done by souls toiling on the diamond – we should all have been so lucky forty years ago. Name one ballplayer who quit because he could make more money doing something else. Virtually all of them hung around well past their prime because they knew they were getting bigger money than they could ever earn in any other ocupation.
But then how many professionals, business executives and other high earners – despite their talent – decided the life of a pro ballplayer wasn’t for them because of the low potential earnings – guess we’ll never know, but I suspect the number would not have been large.
Of course players were relatively underpaid forty years ago, some more than others; but I think the argument could be made that every single one of them is now GROSSLY overpaid – except maybe Pujols… and Halladay.
MW: It all depends on where you’d rather see the money go. In pro sports, the workers ARE the product – if the money didn’t go to them, it’d just go line the deep pockets of the owners even more deeply. Certainly if Roy Halladay wasn’t making $20 million per year, tickets wouldn’t cost any less.
- KenJeff Blair just said on the Fan 590, that the Jays are shopping Snider for a pitcher? R U kidding me, what are they thinking now???? I thought we were rebuilding???
MW: The Jays aren’t shopping Travis Snider.
- tony43Not to take anything away from Halladay, but Lee has been an excellent pitcher the last couple of seasons and had significant success in the post-season with the Phillies.
So if you are working for the Phillies flagship station today, do you really see a lot of bonus to Halladay vs. Lee on this team? I’m sure that question has come up in Philadelphia in the last couple of days. A lot.
I’ve heard bits and pieces about long term contracts that the Phillies don’t like and Lee may have wanted. But Lee is younger than Roy and may make up ground on him over the age of Roy’s contract, as Halladay enters the later part of his 30′s.
I guess what I’m asking is, does Philadelphia really gain much here?
MW: Yes. Yes, they do.
- Rob MWhere does Ruiz fit in the Jays plans? I thought he played quite well last year when given a chance.
MW: I don’t think he really fits at all right now, which is a shame. He deserves the opportunity to fail.
- luckyvagHi mike.
who is gonna be the starting pitchers next season???
i love each time you’re on the fan!
Happy chanuka!!
MW: I’m going to say Marcum, Morrow, Romero, Rzepczynski and Cecil.
- mikemichael,
- darrell bishopfor gosh sake my friend how much better could the phillies possibly have done here?
upgrade a very good starter to most probably the best starter in mlb… receive $6m to pay towards him for this upcoming season.. receive & facilitate the opportunity to tie up the incredible asset for 3 more yrs…
give up 3 prospects but get 3 in return.
geez i don’t michael. what more could you reasonably expect to get in return to get this done if you’re the phillies?
i guess we’ll just agree to disagree on that one……
MW: I can’t imagine they’d sign Thames to play first base.
Thames hits lefties very well and would be a great platoon partner with Wallace at 1B.
MW: Brett Cecil is as good a prospect as David Price was (kind of).
Now there’s a rational and reasonable comment. So that’s the kind of analysis you are looking for. :-)
MW: Thames does hit left-handers with a lot of power, but what makes you think he can play first base? And Cecil’s minor-league numbers were almost the same as Price’s going into 2009, which had been mentioned a couple of zillion times last winter – that’s what I meant by that.
- stat ladyHey Mike, When will Drabek be in the starting rotation and does Wallace have any chance of making the opening day roster?
MW: 2011, but we may see him in the majors this year, and yes.
- Davemichael,
it sure would be very nice to add snider & wallace to lind & hill as everyday players for next seasons line-up.
and wouldn’t it be fantastic if we could see arencibia or jeroloman make a concerted push & forcing the organization to make room for him on the roster with a great spring training next yr. (while we wait for the other new kid d’arnaud to hopefully come along thereafter)
there’s 5 spots spoken for.
and i wouldn’t unconditionally dismiss young encarncion from this mix quite yet either. only 24 right? with some nice things in his game to offer going forward. that’d be 6 spots spoken for. and no one else to realistically take a spot in the organization by the end of next spring training is there michael?
if not, just 3 more spots to go.
and now with drabek in the fold & close to being ready it sounds like and some well deserved payback on the luck side of things coming the jays way (ie. marcum, mcgowan, litsch) also add romero, cecil, r-zep, purcey, ray & mills.
accardo, league, roenicke, downs, fraser down in the pen pitching is seemingly going to be taken care of going forward.
we’re good to go come 2010. heck they might be alotta fun to watch next yr.
who knew?
MW: I think they will indeed be a lot of fun to watch in 2010. Likely won’t win more games than they lose, but fun to watch.
- darrell bishopHi Mike,
Jays become contenders in 2013 with crop of rising young stars. Hallady returns in 2014 at trade deadline to lead us to the World Series.
That would be fitting.
MW: Sounds good to me, but I’d say 2012.
- OzRobMike..
a)It won’t be fun for any team, not just Toronto, to go into Fenway for a four game series and have to face Lackey, Beckett, Lester and any one of Bucholz, Dice-K or Wakefield…The best AL rotation Mike, would you agree? (if healthy, of course)
b) Do you think it was more of the Jays needing a prospect at a certain position (Wallace) than anything they didn’t like talent-wise with Taylor?
MW: A – I might take Sabathia/Burnett/Vazquez/Pettitte. B – Nope, it was that Wallace is the bomb.
- chris m.They are obviously serious about rebuilding. This means that they won’t be rushing anybody into the lineup so I don’t think that Brett Wallace will make the team right away. Am I close Mike or will Overbay’s spot be taken by Wallace as Overbay gets traded.
3B Jose Bautista
1B Lyle Overbay
2B Aaron Hill
LF Adam Lind
RF Travis Snider
DH Randy Ruiz
CF Vernon Wells
C John Buck
SS Alex Gonzalez
MW: If Overbay goes, then Ruiz or Encarnacion might get a shot to pay first until Wallace is ready. You have forgotten (perhaps intentionally) about EE in your line-up. I would say he’s there instead of Ruiz, playing third while Bautista is in right and Lind DHs.
- DomenickMike, I kinda got ill when I saw Halladay put on that jersey. How about you?
MW: Nope.
- SteveMW: I think the rotation (right now) for 2010 is Marcum, Romero, Rzepczynski, Cecil and Richmond or Purcey.”
Thanks for giving Marcum the proper credit. Im gonna love watching him lead the staff next year and hope he comes back strong.
Though, something im peturbed about with this deal is the flipping of Taylor for Wallace. I for one am not sure its justified, but watching AA talk about the trade on the jays website he does state Wallace will be looked at as a first baseman.
Where does this leave Dopirak? and David Cooper? These two assets are now depreciated as a result of the Wallace deal. So the aquisition of Wallace merely adds to the depth at one position, which, just so happends to be the only position we have star prospects in.
For a guy (Taylor) who could have stepped up in 2010 and provided solid contributions from a position of need (LF/RF) -both of which he plays well- it seems like obtaining Wallace is not as valuable as it would seem on first glance. Sure the Jays could trade Cooper and/or Dopirak, but it would be for pennies on the dollar. And using them as DH’s is a waste since DH is the easiest position to fill on any roster.
Though as a positive I am glad we aren’t getting Aumont since all reports seem to indicate he’s more of a relief arm due to his inability to refine his secondary offerings. Point in case is that the Jays just got a similar hard throwing sinker/slider guy for free in the Rule 5, though he isn’t Canadian, relief pitchers aren’t nearly as valuable as starters.
MW: I think you’re a LOT higher on Dopirak and Cooper than the Blue Jays are. I wouldn’t call either one of them star prospects, and neither of them has the potential to achieve even close to what Wallace should. The Taylor/Wallace swap was simply a matter of getting their hands on a super-stud offensive prospect, to add to Snider and Lind.
- DaveDoes AA look like “Stone”(Andy Garcia) from the Untouchables or what???
MW: I don’t see the Andy Garcia thing.
- tony43I just searched this blog and didnt see anything, so what do you think of the Taylor/Wallace flip? I know nothing about either of them just what I quickly read as the rumours were flying around wildly, to me from what Ive read I would rather have kept Taylor than someone who seems likely to be a first baseman when you have Lind who they apparently dont like in the OF and could probably (maybe theyve looked into this and it didnt work) convert to a first baseman.
I (and probably only I) would have been happy to see Snider/Wells/Taylor in the OF to be perfectly honest with Bautista warming the pine waiting for his turn.
MW: I’m sorry, but I’ll always take the big, huge game-changing bat – even if he plays first base and doesn’t steal bases.
- SleepyMW: I’m not as upset as you are. I would have liked to have seen them keep Halladay, trade some youth for high-priced talent and sign a couple of free agents, but they didn’t feel as though they could get good enough quickly enough to make Halladay stay, so this is the only other course of action.
Given the chaos of last season, I think the Jays would have to pay way over market value to get any ‘talent’–ie players who are good enough that a few teams want them–to want to come and play here. When Doc was a Jay position players and other pitchers could feel they were playing with a bona-fide Hall of Famer who practically guaranteed the team a win when he pitched. It’s going to take a lot of extremely hard work over more than a couple of years to turn this crew into a team that could attract important free agents. The trade route could help but it can’t address the central problem. The team is in disarray and the fans are very likely going to stay home and (maybe) watch on tv. The TO crowd is an unnaturally quiet one at the best of times. Get an ongoing 9-11000 down there and the kids may find it very demoralizing.
Rogers are going to have to put their hands in their pockets for a while and pass out 2-Dollar Tuesdays and Free Wings Fridays and whatever else they can do to get the butts in the seats.
MW: There won’t be an ongoing 9,000 – 11,000. The Jays will likely average between 20,000 – 23,000 in attendance this season, and it’ll only go up from there.
- isabella reyesHey Mike,
What’s the timeline for getting Drabek up to the Jays? Is he expected to start next year in Vegas, or could he make the Jays out of Spring Training?
MW: He’s expected to start next year in New Hampshire, but will likely start in Vegas, and while he could make the Jays out of Spring Training, they’re far likelier than not to have him spend the whole year in the minors.
- Jack OHi Mike,
Something tells me – or is it just my imagination – that Alex Anthopoulos isn’t exactly thrilled with Travis Snider. I’m not sure why. Given that Snider was the best prospect we’ve had in a few years, I would have expected AA to bubble with enthusiasm over him. If AA doesn’t want to fit Snider in to his long term plans, would he trade him straight-up for another bona fide prospect? I wouldn’t be shocked.
AA knows he has to restock the farm system, and there’s probably no better time to do it than now. My worry is that apart from salary relief, players like Overbay and Downs won’t bring the kinds of impact prospects we need. There is another player who has considerable trade value – Ricky Romero. Should AA trade Romero in the right deal? Keeping in mind that we’re building for 2012 or 2013, why not rebuild completely?
I’d be interested to know what you think, Mike.
MW: In the right deal, he should trade anyone. But as far as Romero specifically goes, I would say that he’s behind Morrow, Cecil, Rzepczynski, Drabek and maybe Stewart in overall long-term goodness, so I would have no problem with him being moved for something very nice.
- NathanThis trade will make for an interesting story when the Jays meet the Phillies in the 2010 World Series.
Am I right or am I right?
Right…?
MW: Rational and reasonable. I said rational and reasonable.
- Matt McLeanMichael,
Isn’t the story that’s lost in the Halladay deal, the amount of money Roy left on the table to get this thing done?
Joe Sheehan:
“Halladay’s contract is so far removed from his market value that it looks like an error. Remember, he had to approve not only the contract, but the trade to the Phillies that precipitated it. He made the choice that he wanted to be with the Phillies so much—and wanted to be with them immediately so much—that it was worth it to him to leave $60 million, $80 million, maybe $100 million unclaimed. There is no way anyone could have predicted this even a few weeks ago. This is the kind of decision that a player gets to make for himself and his family. Halladay gets to play for a contender in 2010 and gets to do so with a team he wishes to play for, one that holds spring training near his Florida home, and he valued those things more than the marginal dollars foregone by not testing the market. I don’t judge him for it, but I do think we should all be stunned by how much money this man left on the table. There is no precedent for it in sports.”
MW: Three times now, Halladay has forgone free agency to sign contracts well under market value.
- Uncle BenHi Mike,
I just read something in Shi Davidi’s piece that the only way Halladay would have stayed and resigned with the Jays is if they would have signed 3 or 4 significant free agents this offseason. This new info probably came from Beeston, as he had that face-to-face sit down dinner with Roy (and agent) back in October.
This got me thinking that where the Jays maybe blew it with Roy was first during the ’08 season when, despite having the best pitching staff in the majors, the Jays refused to acquire any significant offensive help. Management chose to let the team twist in the wind with Mencherson until it was too late. Probably because they were eating Frank Thomas’ salary. But this may have showed Roy a lack of serious committment to winning.
Then in the ’08/’09 offseason the Jays let Burnett walk and rather than reinvest the cash back into the team or attempt to improve in some other way they did nothing – just pocketed the cash saved from Burnett instead. This may have been further indication that the team was not serious about doing what it takes to win.
Roy obviously wasn’t cool with that lame strategy for the ’09 season and wanted out. Good on him. Shame on the Jays.
MW: Halladay bought what J.P. was selling, but the team didn’t follow through for him, for sure.
- McLovinMike – did you pick up on the fact that Wallace has now been involved in trades for Holliday and Halladay in one season ?
Do you think that AA missed an opportunity to get more value from Philly due to the fact they were able to secure him to a contract extension ? Since AA played ball and conceded to help Amarro with his budget problem – the $6 million that bugs me and many other Jays fans – could he not have asked for more on the condition Philly got Doc for 3 years ? I would have liked to see AA nab Aumont (sp?) the Gatineau kid as well at the 3 prospects. Do you think that was possible ?
MW: If it was possible, it would have happened.
- TouchemallJoemichael,
- darrell bishophow dismissive of me to not include vw in the jays nucleus going forward in my previous post.
i guess i was getting caught up in the future & projecting a little too much with the potential young nucleus being assembled by the organization.
so add him to the list too. we should want to anyway i’m thinking. after all the chance of him rebounding has proven to be certainly as likely as not (when observing his career thus far)
cause’ when he’s good, he garners a spot on a strong majority teams in mlb. and pretty sure ours.
so…. just 2 spots to fill i suppose in the big picture going forward now…………
Hello, Mike
I am completely on board with this deal, except for the $6 000 000, which I don’t think you have touched on.
What, we can’t compete with the Yankees and Red Sox, so we’re helping the Phillies do so? The Phillies didn’t want to pay the premium for having Halladay vs Lee, so we’re picking it up?
In my old neighborhood, this is called a “shakedown”.
Seriously, I am very upset about this. I had to give up my season tickets a couple of years ago, because I couldn’t afford them. Right now, if they Jays jack ticket prices before they get a winning record (which means two seasons, minimum), I am inclined to say “adios”.
MW: I don’t think they’re raising ticket prices. If the Jays only save $9.75 million instead of $15.75 million and it gets them two elite prospects plus D’Arnaud, I don’t have a problem with the money.
- Mark L.