There is no logical way to explain this away other then the fact that most teams believe this to be true..Yes there are a few exceptions but one of the guys who believed you could have a lousy running high OBP first basemen has been fired (Riccardi) and the new guy in charge wants to dump him (Overbay)..

All his stats save the first season as a Jay, are quite similar..When he was healthy, his stats over the last few years are quite similar..

Now that I look at it, do you realize Overbay led the team in SO in 2008 with 116? or how about 95 in 2009?..The most SO per at bat then any Jay with more then 100 AB..Yea this guy contributes immensely..

MW: Sigh.

He doesn’t really hit for power (15HR) but he hits some doubles(35)..He has a good OBP but he doesn’t run well (nada SB) or score many runs (57)..

How can you justify putting someone who isn’t a very good runner in the top 3 of your lineup?..

His average vs. lefties in 2009 was .190..But he did OK in the 4 hole (102AB/.283avg/4HR..So what do you do with this guy?..He isn’t quite good enough to be a regular (.190 against lefties) but too good to be a bench player..He just doesn’t fit in Toronto’s lineup..

Lind would look good at 1B and I think they should seriously consider Ruiz at DH next year..So where or what do you do with this guy?..

MW: It’s interesting that you’re only taking into account his 2009 numbers. Why do you think Lind would look good at first? Have you ever seen him play there? I really like what Overbay contributes, and it doesn’t matter to me that he’s not a good baserunner - there are lots of speedy guys who aren’t on base nearly as often as he is. That said, he’s a free agent after 2010, so his value to the Blue Jays is higher in trade than it is on the field for them.

It seems that TBR, BOS, NYY, DET, LAA, STL, PHI, SDG and pretty much everyone else in baseball seem to have a first basemen that hit for power..NO WAY that is a coincidence..

The Jays should rid themselves of this 7 million dollar stiff and put a power hitter (Lind) on first base where he should be..

Its Cito’s fault? In 75 games before Cito took over in 2008 he had..6HR/28RBI/31runs/.404SLG..The The year before that was even worst but he had a bad hand so he had an excuse..

In 2008, Gibbons had Overbay in the 5th, 6th or 7th spot on a regular basis..

He finished 2008 with 74 runs, 15hr and a BA of .270..Not much of a difference at all after Cito took over..If anything, slightly better..

MW: I actually tend to think of myself as more acute than obtuse, but that’s just me. Yes, there are plenty of first basemen who hit for power, and some who don’t. The team that won the World Series two years ago had a first baseman who hit 18 home runs but got on base like an animal (assuming animals get on base a lot - I think they do). And who else’s fault is it that Overbay’s on-base was wasted at the bottom of the order? There’s only one guy who makes the line-up. Also - surely you jest if you’re saying that Overbay’s 2008 was the same as his 2009. His ‘09 OBP was 14 points better and his ‘09 SLG was 47 points better. Maybe the reason we don’t see eye to eye is because you don’t look at important things like that.

MW: The Yankees never tagged him and play continued.

But wouldn’t he be called out for going off the basepaths then?

MW: Nope, once you are involved in a play at the plate, if it’s not resolved with a tag or a safe call and play continues to the point where another pitch is thrown before an appeal is made, the run counts.

Certainly Overbay isn’t a bad player..

He is a first basemen and traditionally first basemen are power hitters…I just don’t think he contributes enough on this team to earn big money..

Take a look at some of the first basemen in the AL..

Pena TB 39hr/100RBI/.537SLG
Teixeira NYY 39/122/.565
Cabrera DET 34/103/.547
Morales LAA 34/108/.547

13th Overbay 16/64/.466

I just don’t think a good OBP for a guy hitting 6th in the lineup is good enough..If he is in the 6 hole who is going to drive him in?..

He had 57 runs last year good for 81st in the AL..So what difference does a good OBP mean when you don’t score??

Just wondering…

Hopefully Beeston isn’t involved in the day to day operations but like you said, he is responsible..

Is is just as responsible for the state of the Jays in the late 1990’s as Gaston was..He just gets a mulligan and I’m not sure why everyone wants this guy back in charge considering his record with the club when he left..

MW: Please don’t get caught up in the “traditionally” argument. You’re right - OBP is wasted lower in the line-up when there’s nobody down there to drive the runs in. But it’s not Overbay’s fault he was hitting lower in the line-up (most often 7th), it’s Cito’s.

Is there a reason why Beeston is here other then what he did 16 years ago?..Its funny how you always point to the president as someone not involved in the teams on field personnel but you don’t mind pointing to Godfrey for the Wells contract..

How can the president not be held accountable for the on field product?..It IS his responsibility..He hired the man in charge and if he does well he looks good if he does poorly he is the smuck that hired him..

Beeston hired Gillick and that was an astute hiring but he also put your favorite whipping boy Ash in charge..He won 2 world series for the Jays but also was around for some terrible post world series teams..Just as Gaston was..Lets not forget, Beeston left this guy in charge even though he was past his due date..He was around for Gaston’s second hiring as many have said he pulled the strings on this one..

According to many newspapers Beeston was the main negotiator in the losing of the 3 top Jays picks in 2008..

Gaston hasn’t been perfect but as you have said in the past, the manager may only be responsible for 5 games won/lost over a season..

Yes he didn’t play Lind in the field often but yet Lind had a breakout year at the plate..Sure he played Millar at 3rd base a few times against the Sox but they won the game didn’t they?..

Maybe Lyle Overpaid will mercifully get traded and Lind will assume first base..

By the way, Overbay may have a good OBP but he is still ranked 45th in career OBP among active players..He is also ranked near the bottom in HR, RBI among first basemen..If he was such a good player why is Alex trying to get rid of him?

MW: In the end, the President bears the ultimate responsibility for everything, but he’s not - or shouldn’t be - involved in day-to-day operations. It’s his (or her) job to hire the right people for he baseball ops department and then stay out of their way. I’m not sure where you got that Overbay figure, but if it’s true, that would put him in the top 5% of all active players. Please tell me how that’s a bad thing. He’s being moved because he only has one year left in his contract, and it’s a year in which the Blue Jays won’t be contending. That’s what you’re supposed to do with players like that - move them for assets that will be part of the team when it’s ready to win. And the Blue Jays winning the games in which Kevin Millar played third base does NOT make playing Kevin Millar at third base a good idea.

This offseason, do you think the Phillies again make a run at getting Halladay? Would anything strike fear into the Yankees (or Red Sox) more than potentially having to face Roy in the WS?

MW: Lots of things would, I’m sure. I hope the Phillies try again, though.

The other player who I suspect is having a slow recovery is Overbay. He admitted the previous year that his hand bothered him through the 2008 season. Each year he had posted better power numbers until the hand injury in 2007. I think it is high time that batting gloves be designed with hand safety in mind.

MW: Every time Wells was asked if he was healthy, and he was asked a lot, he said he was fine. But you can’t write off his season to the wrist entirely, because he still performed on the road (.300/.335.444) and he still hit righties as well as he ever has (.278/.322/.425 in ‘09 as compared to .272/.317/.461). You can blame the wrist for the drop-off in power, but that’s it.

I don’t think Ken Burns knows the Jays exist. I seem to remember watching his baseball series and catching a fast ‘in 1992 and 1993 the Blue Jays won the World Series’ mention and then moving quickly along to the strike. But my memory might be at fault here.

Nobody will dispute his terrible record in the mid 90’s..But to assess his record from more then 10 yrs ago, is a bit of a stretch..

Lets not forget that was Paul Beestons sans Gillick era..He hired Ash and left the team in a terrible mess but for some reason, he gets a mulligan..

If Gaston is going to be evaluated for his lousy record 10 years ago then we should do the same for Beeston right?..If you feel Gaston should go then why should Beeston stay?

I think Gaston did a decent job with pitching he was given..If he had the 2008 pitching staff combined with 2009 offence, maybe the Jays do something this year..But the Jays were unable to put it all together..

MW: You did actually watch the games, though, right? You noticed the moves that Gaston made to try to win ballgames? I think you’re confusing Beeston with someone who is actually in the baseball operations department, for one. Yes, he did hire Ash, which was a mistake, but Presidents don’t have won-loss record, they preside, it’s their thing. As for evaluating Gaston based on 10 years ago - is there a reason that he’s here other than his record from 16 years ago?