Comments on: These 25 Will Not Return http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/ Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:56:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Ian from Whitby http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38314 Ian from Whitby Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:38:07 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38314 remember Mike Barlow in 1979. MW: Cool. I know the name, but I can’t remember having ever seen him pitch. - Ian from Whitby Hi Mike, I was only 9 back then but I was still an avid Jays fan. Barlow was not the most effective reliver but I saw him pitch live once at Exhibition Stadium vs the California Angels. He pitched a very quick and tidy 1-2-3 9th in a Jays victory. It was a three game sweep with Rod Carew going 0 for Toronto that series. For some reason, I remember that. From what I remember, it was a rarity for Barlow to have a clean inning. I should look him up for old times sake. MW: That game was on August 3rd, 1980, when Barlow picked up his first of five saves on the season in a 3-1 Jays win. Carew went 0-for-8 over the last two games of the series after a 2-for-4 night in the opener. remember Mike Barlow in 1979.

MW: Cool. I know the name, but I can’t remember having ever seen him pitch.

- Ian from Whitby

Hi Mike,

I was only 9 back then but I was still an avid Jays fan. Barlow was not the most effective reliver but I saw him pitch live once at Exhibition Stadium vs the California Angels. He pitched a very quick and tidy 1-2-3 9th in a Jays victory. It was a three game sweep with Rod Carew going 0 for Toronto that series. For some reason, I remember that. From what I remember, it was a rarity for Barlow to have a clean inning. I should look him up for old times sake.

MW: That game was on August 3rd, 1980, when Barlow picked up his first of five saves on the season in a 3-1 Jays win. Carew went 0-for-8 over the last two games of the series after a 2-for-4 night in the opener.

]]> By: Carl Harvey http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38276 Carl Harvey Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:03:35 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38276 Hi Mike. I often listen to, and enjoy, your radio program, although I have yet to call. (You definitely do know your baseball.) Similarly, this is the first time that I have responded to your -or anyone's- blog. By way of introducing my question...last week, I believe it was, you said to a caller that Alex Rodriguez was 'maybe the best hitter ever'. To your credit, you didn't make the sweeping pronouncement that Alex Rodriguez definitely was the best hitter ever; you rarely make sweeping pronouncements, which is something I like about you. Anyway, on a recent television broadcast -it might actually have been the All-star game- Tim McCarver said that Albert Pujols was the best hitter in baseball (which opinion I know you subscribe to). He said, specifically, that Alex Rodriguez was formerly the best hitter in baseball, but that it was now Pujols. As much as I agree that Albert Pujols is currently the best hitter in baseball, and as much as I think that your remark about Rodriguez is plausible and not at all ill-conceived, I have to think that given their respective peek career years, Barry Bonds has the more awesome hitting statistics when compared to A-Rod. Other aspects of their careers seem to run parallel: obviously the steroid allegations (in Bonds's case, cast by others; in Rodriguez's, self-confessed); their apparent unlikability with respect to members of the media, and even their own teammates, etc. I just thought I would ask you, when you are not up against the radio clock, which of the two you considered to be the greater hitter, as well as all-around player. Thanks for indulging my inquiry (if indeed you choose to do so!). MW: I consider Barry Bonds to be the second-best hitter in baseball history, behind only Babe Ruth. Thanks for choosing my blog to be the first on which you've ever commented! Hi Mike.
I often listen to, and enjoy, your radio program, although I have yet to call. (You definitely do know your baseball.) Similarly, this is the first time that I have responded to your -or anyone’s- blog.
By way of introducing my question…last week, I believe it was, you said to a caller that Alex Rodriguez was ‘maybe the best hitter ever’. To your credit, you didn’t make the sweeping pronouncement that Alex Rodriguez definitely was the best hitter ever; you rarely make sweeping pronouncements, which is something I like about you. Anyway, on a recent television broadcast -it might actually have been the All-star game- Tim McCarver said that Albert Pujols was the best hitter in baseball (which opinion I know you subscribe to). He said, specifically, that Alex Rodriguez was formerly the best hitter in baseball, but that it was now Pujols. As much as I agree that Albert Pujols is currently the best hitter in baseball, and as much as I think that your remark about Rodriguez is plausible and not at all ill-conceived, I have to think that given their respective peek career years, Barry Bonds has the more awesome hitting statistics when compared to A-Rod.
Other aspects of their careers seem to run parallel: obviously the steroid allegations (in Bonds’s case, cast by others; in Rodriguez’s, self-confessed); their apparent unlikability with respect to members of the media, and even their own teammates, etc.
I just thought I would ask you, when you are not up against the radio clock, which of the two you considered to be the greater hitter, as well as all-around player. Thanks for indulging my inquiry (if indeed you choose to do so!).

MW: I consider Barry Bonds to be the second-best hitter in baseball history, behind only Babe Ruth. Thanks for choosing my blog to be the first on which you’ve ever commented!

]]> By: mark in caledonia http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38275 mark in caledonia Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:01:02 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38275 Mr Wilner i have top take exception to a few points you made above in my post about vernon wells and rios. yes its true wells has not always hit 260, but looking at his best years, he hit 317 with a 359 obp in 2003. Guys who make Arod or texiera type money consistantly hit 40-50 home runs annually. JP may not have been the catalist of the wells deal, but as GM im sure he advises ownership if a deal like vernon's is good for the long term health of the club. With Rios you said not great power but not minimal. So 18-20 home runs a year and a 330 obp equates to a 10 million dollar contract. Bottom line is that JP runs for cover and isnt held accountible when poor contracts like BJ Ryan are his baby. He makes the excuse that BJ doesnt like his role with the club so we release him. I guess when free agency starts after the 09 season, JP can look at the photo of him and ryan at the press conference back when the deal was signed and reminise. Until JP is shown the door, the Jays will continue to look up at model franchises such as New York, Boston and Tampa. Better hope Baltimore doesnt figure it out MW: I continue to be amazed at the regard some have for the Rays. A model franchise? They've had ONE season above .500 in the history of the franchise! And I'll wager most Jays fans wish that JP would run for cover every once in a while. Mr Wilner

i have top take exception to a few points you made above in my post about vernon wells and rios. yes its true wells has not always hit 260, but looking at his best years, he hit 317 with a 359 obp in 2003. Guys who make Arod or texiera type money consistantly hit 40-50 home runs annually. JP may not have been the catalist of the wells deal, but as GM im sure he advises ownership if a deal like vernon’s is good for the long term health of the club.

With Rios you said not great power but not minimal. So 18-20 home runs a year and a 330 obp equates to a 10 million dollar contract.

Bottom line is that JP runs for cover and isnt held accountible when poor contracts like BJ Ryan are his baby. He makes the excuse that BJ doesnt like his role with the club so we release him.

I guess when free agency starts after the 09 season, JP can look at the photo of him and ryan at the press conference back when the deal was signed and reminise.

Until JP is shown the door, the Jays will continue to look up at model franchises such as New York, Boston and Tampa. Better hope Baltimore doesnt figure it out

MW: I continue to be amazed at the regard some have for the Rays. A model franchise? They’ve had ONE season above .500 in the history of the franchise! And I’ll wager most Jays fans wish that JP would run for cover every once in a while.

]]> By: reyes http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38256 reyes Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:04:20 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38256 Interesting article. Only one Jay on the list and one dishonourable mention. The Mariners dominated. Well's defensive decline has been pretty thoroughly documented. I seem to remember talk of it last season as well. I, too will be sad to see Scutaro go. If he is traded and Rios is traded as well, who will hit lead-off? MW: Johnny Mac? Probably Jose Bautista. Interesting article. Only one Jay on the list and one dishonourable mention. The Mariners dominated.

Well’s defensive decline has been pretty thoroughly documented. I seem to remember talk of it last season as well.

I, too will be sad to see Scutaro go. If he is traded and Rios is traded as well, who will hit lead-off?

MW: Johnny Mac? Probably Jose Bautista.

]]> By: Ian from Whitby http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38242 Ian from Whitby Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:07:47 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38242 Michael, When was the last time the Jays had a submarine pitcher? Does that delivery put more or less stress on the arm? MW: I can’t actually remember the Blue Jays having an honest-to-goodness submariner. Mark Eichhorn was a sidearmer. It definitely puts less stress on the arm. - Uncle Ben I remember Mike Barlow in 1979. MW: Cool. I know the name, but I can't remember having ever seen him pitch. Michael,

When was the last time the Jays had a submarine pitcher?

Does that delivery put more or less stress on the arm?

MW: I can’t actually remember the Blue Jays having an honest-to-goodness submariner. Mark Eichhorn was a sidearmer. It definitely puts less stress on the arm.

- Uncle Ben

I remember Mike Barlow in 1979.

MW: Cool. I know the name, but I can’t remember having ever seen him pitch.

]]> By: Bob from Burlington http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38240 Bob from Burlington Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:26:36 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38240 Mike - have you ever seen a baseball documentary entitled, "When It Was A Game"? It has been on the Movie Channel for a bit. I "PVR'd" it a while back and watched it last night. It is a bunch of original 8mm & 16mm movies that were shot by players and fans. Super quality and even in colour! Some of the footage is from way back in 1938. It really is a great piece and only 70 minutes in length. Gives you goose bumps at times as you can really feel the passion these guys had for the game, and when they speak of baseball and the effect it had on so many! Truly, "The Great American Pastime"! If you have not allready, I strongly suggest you check it out. I guarantee you will be pleasantly surprised by it all. Enjoy the time off - who could expect you to to the daily noon hour slot when the Jays are on a west coast swing anyway! I caught the Overbay interview - nice job (as usual). Take care and thank you. Mike - have you ever seen a baseball documentary entitled, “When It Was A Game”?

It has been on the Movie Channel for a bit. I “PVR’d” it a while back and watched it last night.

It is a bunch of original 8mm & 16mm movies that were shot by players and fans. Super quality and even in colour! Some of the footage is from way back in 1938.

It really is a great piece and only 70 minutes in length. Gives you goose bumps at times as you can really feel the passion these guys had for the game, and when they speak of baseball and the effect it had on so many!

Truly, “The Great American Pastime”!

If you have not allready, I strongly suggest you check it out. I guarantee you will be pleasantly surprised by it all.

Enjoy the time off - who could expect you to to the daily noon hour slot when the Jays are on a west coast swing anyway! I caught the Overbay interview - nice job (as usual).

Take care and thank you.

]]> By: steve http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38233 steve Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:26:15 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38233 Hey Bat Man, riddle me this: if Doc for two shots at the World Series (the remainder of his current contract) isn't worth as much as the Jays believe he is, how do they expect to get more for him in the off-season, when he'll only give a potential trading partner a one-season shot at the big prize? I realize there is propaganda value in J.P. saying there is a slim chance to trade Doc before the deadline, but doesn't he have to make his big move now? He already has a lot of egg on his face for letting Burnett walk and getting almost nothing in return. MW: They don't expect to get more for him in the off-season. Hey Bat Man, riddle me this: if Doc for two shots at the World Series (the remainder of his current contract) isn’t worth as much as the Jays believe he is, how do they expect to get more for him in the off-season, when he’ll only give a potential trading partner a one-season shot at the big prize?

I realize there is propaganda value in J.P. saying there is a slim chance to trade Doc before the deadline, but doesn’t he have to make his big move now? He already has a lot of egg on his face for letting Burnett walk and getting almost nothing in return.

MW: They don’t expect to get more for him in the off-season.

]]> By: mark in caledonia http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38228 mark in caledonia Tue, 28 Jul 2009 06:57:43 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38228 Mr. Wilner We have had many discusions on the radio in regards to JP and his handling of signing players to overpriced contracts. I have focused in on five players for 2010. Looking at these players, a great case is made for JP being fired after another failed season in Toronto. Lets start with Vernon Wells. A 260 hitter with a 310 obp. At 21 million in 2010, accountibility must lay on the shoulders of the man who gave such a ridicious contract to such an average hitter over his career. I have heard your agruement that the jays paid market value for him at the time he signed the deal, since when does hitting 260 equal out to 21 million a season. lucky vernon doesnt hit 300 now. Now the next guy isnt even on the roster now. Great move JP. BJ Ryan, another signing for supposed market value. 15 million for a guy who is now able to sit home and do nothing. A team like the jays can ill afford to make mistakes of this nature. What does JP do, releases him and says BJ wasnt happy in his role. Suck it up BJ and pitch when we tell you. JP makes excuses for BJ to deflect his own mistake with another horrible contract. Next is Rios. At 9.7 million in 2010 for a guy with minimal power and poor K to walk ratio, Rios is no better than a 6th or 7th hitter in a contending lineup. If its true that JP could have had lincecum for rios years ago, he should be fired on that non move alone. But then again, why would anyone want a 23 yr old cy young award winner when you have Rios who hits 15 home runs per year and a sparkling 330 obp. Next is Rolen. A solid player over his career, but clearly on the down side. with the year he is having now is the time to move his huge contract for 2010(12 million). Again i have no faith in JP that he will move this asset for more than a fringe prospect or wait until rolen gets injured and his value goes into the tiolet. Lastly is halladay at 15.75 million in 2010. This is the deal that JP must make now. The longer he waits, the less halladay brings in return. I agree that he must get blown away with what will come back, but waiting to long will only back JP into a corner as the baseball world is all eyes on the Toronto GM. Other teams know JP's history with moves and a team like Philly knows JP will slip on a banana peel once again. having talked about the 5 guys i mentioned, a rough total number in salary for these guys is at 73 million give or take. A team like the Jays can ill afford mistakes like these and JP has not shown in 8 years that the jays can play a meaningful game in september. How long until jays brass allows this mismanagement to continue People can make the excuses that they play in the AL east and cant contend with boston and the yankees, but make less mistakes with personnel, ie frank thomas, vernon wells, bj ryan, alex rios, and draft better younger talent. Let me ask you this. What has JP riccardi ever won before the blue jays?. MW: About as much as Roy Halladay and Carlos Delgado - the two greatest long-term players in franchise history - have. Obviously there are holes in a lot of your points. You refer to Wells as a .260 hitter. I didn't realize that his numbers from this year were the only ones that counted. And anyway, the guy who is behind that signing no longer works for the Blue Jays. Rios' "minimal" power is likely to get him 18-20 homers this year. Not great, but hardly minimal. There's no great return in the offing for Rolen, no matter who the GM is. Ryan was a horrible contract, it's true, but it was a good gamble at the time - the kind of gambles that teams that are chasing the big boys have to take in the hopes they'll work out. As for Halladay - JP has to get blown away, but he has to get blown away in the next three days? Mr. Wilner

We have had many discusions on the radio in regards to JP and his handling of signing players to overpriced contracts.

I have focused in on five players for 2010. Looking at these players, a great case is made for JP being fired after another failed season in Toronto.

Lets start with Vernon Wells. A 260 hitter with a 310 obp. At 21 million in 2010, accountibility must lay on the shoulders of the man who gave such a ridicious contract to such an average hitter over his career. I have heard your agruement that the jays paid market value for him at the time he signed the deal, since when does hitting 260 equal out to 21 million a season. lucky vernon doesnt hit 300 now.

Now the next guy isnt even on the roster now. Great move JP. BJ Ryan, another signing for supposed market value. 15 million for a guy who is now able to sit home and do nothing. A team like the jays can ill afford to make mistakes of this nature. What does JP do, releases him and says BJ wasnt happy in his role. Suck it up BJ and pitch when we tell you. JP makes excuses for BJ to deflect his own mistake with another horrible contract.

Next is Rios. At 9.7 million in 2010 for a guy with minimal power and poor K to walk ratio, Rios is no better than a 6th or 7th hitter in a contending lineup. If its true that JP could have had lincecum for rios years ago, he should be fired on that non move alone. But then again, why would anyone want a 23 yr old cy young award winner when you have Rios who hits 15 home runs per year and a sparkling 330 obp.

Next is Rolen. A solid player over his career, but clearly on the down side. with the year he is having now is the time to move his huge contract for 2010(12 million). Again i have no faith in JP that he will move this asset for more than a fringe prospect or wait until rolen gets injured and his value goes into the tiolet.

Lastly is halladay at 15.75 million in 2010. This is the deal that JP must make now. The longer he waits, the less halladay brings in return. I agree that he must get blown away with what will come back, but waiting to long will only back JP into a corner as the baseball world is all eyes on the Toronto GM. Other teams know JP’s history with moves and a team like Philly knows JP will slip on a banana peel once again.

having talked about the 5 guys i mentioned, a rough total number in salary for these guys is at 73 million give or take. A team like the Jays can ill afford mistakes like these and JP has not shown in 8 years that the jays can play a meaningful game in september. How long until jays brass allows this mismanagement to continue

People can make the excuses that they play in the AL east and cant contend with boston and the yankees, but make less mistakes with personnel, ie frank thomas, vernon wells, bj ryan, alex rios, and draft better younger talent.

Let me ask you this. What has JP riccardi ever won before the blue jays?.

MW: About as much as Roy Halladay and Carlos Delgado - the two greatest long-term players in franchise history - have. Obviously there are holes in a lot of your points. You refer to Wells as a .260 hitter. I didn’t realize that his numbers from this year were the only ones that counted. And anyway, the guy who is behind that signing no longer works for the Blue Jays. Rios’ “minimal” power is likely to get him 18-20 homers this year. Not great, but hardly minimal. There’s no great return in the offing for Rolen, no matter who the GM is. Ryan was a horrible contract, it’s true, but it was a good gamble at the time - the kind of gambles that teams that are chasing the big boys have to take in the hopes they’ll work out. As for Halladay - JP has to get blown away, but he has to get blown away in the next three days?

]]> By: Cjohnson http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38220 Cjohnson Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:38:51 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38220 I think it will be a shame if/when Scutaro is traded from the Jays. His attitude and sense of humour are infectious, I was at the game on Sunday and they showed him on the main screen doing his weird handshakes with all the coaches, they were all cracking up and it seems like great fun for everyone. He will be missed, and he's having quite the season on top of all that! Same goes for Rolen of course, I've grown accustomed to him at third base, and he seems like somebody with good character. It's sad to see some of my recent favourites on the trade block, knowing they'll be playing for other teams more likely than not, and I'm sure any player with a family regrets having to relocate as well, for the most part. I wish that Toronto could have had more success with their current lineup, would've loved to see them all back next year I think it will be a shame if/when Scutaro is traded from the Jays. His attitude and sense of humour are infectious, I was at the game on Sunday and they showed him on the main screen doing his weird handshakes with all the coaches, they were all cracking up and it seems like great fun for everyone. He will be missed, and he’s having quite the season on top of all that!

Same goes for Rolen of course, I’ve grown accustomed to him at third base, and he seems like somebody with good character.

It’s sad to see some of my recent favourites on the trade block, knowing they’ll be playing for other teams more likely than not, and I’m sure any player with a family regrets having to relocate as well, for the most part. I wish that Toronto could have had more success with their current lineup, would’ve loved to see them all back next year

]]> By: kate http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38219 kate Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:55:56 +0000 http://blog.rogersbroadcasting.com/mikewilner/2009/07/27/these-25-will-not-return/#comment-38219 Mike, Wells and his contract will be coming back from this road trip. I was interested in David Shoenfield's comment on espn.com ("major leaguers with the least trade value") that Wells has "deteriorated rapidly as a center fielder (the fielding data on fangraphs.com rates him as one of the league's worst outfielders this season)." Do you agree? MW: Yes, he has. I don't think he's one of the worst in the league, but those numbers are pretty compelling. Mike,

Wells and his contract will be coming back from this road trip.

I was interested in David Shoenfield’s comment on espn.com (”major leaguers with the least trade value”) that Wells has “deteriorated rapidly as a center fielder (the fielding data on fangraphs.com rates him as one of the league’s worst outfielders this season).”

Do you agree?

MW: Yes, he has. I don’t think he’s one of the worst in the league, but those numbers are pretty compelling.

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