12:00 AM Eastern
Because it couldn’t possibly be as bad as today was.
Here’s what’s amazing (aside from, you know, blowing a huge lead late) - the Blue Jays have lost 15 of their last 21 games, and not a single one of those losses has been by more than three runs.
One of the reasons this run has been so excruciatingly tear-your-hair-out frustrating for Jays fans is that of those 15 losses, nine have been by one run or in extra innings, three have been by two runs (in regulation) and the other three have been by three runs.
There is absolutely no question that the Blue Jays should legitimately have won their last seven straight games. This isn’t excuse-making - they’re full measure for all the losses - this is just explaining why this has been so hard on the fans. They’ve literally been giving games away.
Here’s today’s brief edition of The JaysTalk, for your listening pleasure:
Tomorrow’s finale of the homestand pits Brett Cecil against Jeff Niemann in a battle of rookies. I’ll have first-base coach Dwayne Murphy on in the pre-game show talking about Rickey Henderson’s impending induction into the Hall of Fame, and I’ll have Cito Gaston on The Blue Jays This Week to talk about the same thing. Now I just have to find someone to talk about all the Roy Halladay stuff to lead off TBJTW - it’s not going to be Doc, though.
I wanted to say, too, that the vast majority of the comments that I went through during the game today were well thought-out, rational and reasonable. I really appreciate that.
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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Hey Mike, assuming Halladay doesn’t get traded this week and you are the GM of the team this offseason. You have 2 options (assume money isn’t an issue).
1) Trade as many veterans as you can (Halladay, Rolen, Downs, Overbay, Frasor) to replenish the farm system and get some young players to build around Lind, Hill, Snider, Marcum, Cecil, Romero, etc.
2) Try to improve the team and try to compete for a playoff spot in 2010.
Personally, I’d go with option 2. You said it best, the recent stretch of losses have all been close games and they could have easily won all of them. They could have easily taken 3/4 in Yankee stadium with 2-3 timely hits late in the game. You only rebuild if you think the team is overmatched by the elite teams or the core pieces are past their primes.
The team has a ton of pitching depth. It’s just a matter of upgrading position players and finding a true clean up hitter.
MW: I would go with option 2, for sure. But I’m worried about Rolen’s ability to put together back-to-back healthy seasons.
- PramitAnother idea for you: Lets say Halladay stays through 2010 and enters free agency. I know in the past you’ve said there’s a big risk to be paying a pitcher $20 million a year when he’s in his late 30’s, so would at all be possible to have some kind of a front ended contract (the opposite to Vernon’s deal) where he’s paid the bulk of his money would be paid in the early years of his contract. Then as he gets older (let’s say past 35) his annual salary would decrease. I’m thinking along the lines of the contract the Red Wings gave Henrik Zetterberg (minus the 12 year term).
1. It would make sense on a number of fronts. First, as he gets older, he not be as dominant as he is now and eventually become a solid 2 or 3 guy in the rotation. The team wouldn’t want to tie up too much money in a guy who isn’t the dominant pitcher he once was.
2. If they ever wanted to trade him in the future, the contract wouldn’t be such a burden on any other team taking him.
I’m not expert on contract rules in the mlb. Would this even be allowed? Also, has this ever been done before?
MW: It would definitely be allowed, I’m not sure it’s ever been done to that extent - but why would Halladay be interested in doing that?
- PramitHey Mike,
What do you think are the best stats to look at how good a team actually is, other than the win-loss record? I look at things like ERA and WHIP, for pitchers, and runs per game, OPS, and hitting with runners in scoring position, for hitters.
Would you look at those? Are there any that I look at that you wouldn’t? Also, are there any other stats that you pay attention to, in order to determine how good teams are? Thanks!
P.S. - I love the new Noon Hour Baseball Programme. I know people don’t thank you enough for all the hard work you do for the fans, with the blog (the posts and especially reading and answering the comments) and the pre/post-game shows, and now the new show, so thank you a ton! Keep up the great work!!!
MW: I appreciate it. I look at all the things you’ve mentioned, except for hitting with runners in scoring position. Run differential is a big thing, too.
- Justin from ArdtreaMW: You misunderstood, or maybe I wasn’t clear - I meant that the offer was $12 million for two years (which is what I wrote), not $12 million per year for two years. As for all those links, they all point back to the same report on si.com which was completely untrue. Just because a whole bunch of different places jump on the same bad report doesn’t make that report any less bad.
The first one that i copied and pasted was from sportsnet…
i know you’re not suggesting that your employer lied to us right??
As for the other part (delgado offer) I’ll give that a misunderstanding consideration
MW: The one from Sportsnet quoted the report from si.com - which was erroneous.
- RealityCheckMike, your sentiments are dead on. Its not the losses themselves, its the fact that so many of the losses could have or should have been wins. Its amazing how competitive the team has been, consistent in games, and yet losing nearly all of them.
But I have compliled a couple of stats below that i think will blow the readers as well as your mind.
in their last 17 innings of extra inning ball, the blue jays have NOT scored.
over that time, they have gone a collective 6/58!
ladies and gentlemen, your 2009 toronto blue jays!
MW: Wow.
- General ZodHey Mike,
I just read that Wladimir Balentien was DFA’d by the Mariners. Any chance the Jays try to aquire him? He’s only 25, I think, and though he has been absolutely horrible in his 450ish major-league plate appearances (.625 OPS), he has been very, very good in his 2,400ish minor-league PA’s (.871 OPS overall and even this year a .938 OPS, I know it’s the PCL). What do you think?
MW: I don’t know - I wouldn’t want J.P. to be picking up some other team’s retread for nothing. That seems to annoy the fans.
- Justin from ArdtreaHey, Mike, great blog as always. I think all of us Jays fans were very frustrated today at this train wreck of a game. My poor 11 year old daughter had to sit through all 12 innings and we’re going again tomorrow for the free Webkinz.
Anyway, I was really upset at the booing of Wells today as well. He hit 2 for 2 and looked like he was turning it around but to get booed for the flyout when they were up 8 runs…. come on.
It seems that the Jays are finding ways to lose and have lost their confidence. Between the blowout of Tallet in the 6th, Accardo in the 8th and Downs in the 9th with no run production in between was very exasperating. Watching the Jays blow it with the questionable strike 3 to Hill in the bottom of the 12th just made me want to tear my hair out. You’re absolutely right… even the road trip before the all star break were all lost by 2 runs or less. If the Jays would have pulled in 4 or 5 of them, they’d be 2 or 3 games over .500.
With respect to Friday night’s attendance, probably a number of factors are at play that kept people away. Friday night games tend to bring out the rowdies getting drunk in the 500s which actually keeps the serious fans away (I won’t take my daughter to the Friday night games for that reason). The team is no longer a playoff contender playing a team who was here three weeks earlier and who are not playoff contenders (yet), and there is a garbage strike in town.
The ticket prices are in line with everywhere else in the majors. I’ve been to six of the parks this year and the minimum I’ve paid is $7 for the Angels (which was a special and is usually $20). These are for the same 500 level type tickets that I get in Toronto. Normally I pay $14 - $24 for the same quality tickets I get for $9-11 in Toronto.
Anyway, keep your head up, Mike. It is after all, a game. It’s a fantastic game, but still a game, nonetheless.
MW: Indeed, but my head’s not slipping because of the actual games.
- TimMike.
I attended the game today with my son’s pee wee ballclub.It was brutal but at least the offence was better.As I hate to see them go,I think a good deal for Doc and Rolen is best for the future.The Jays have great pitching for the future and adding to it only makes it better.
On another note,Our boys got their caps signed by Matt Garza which was very cool but one young lad missed out because Matt had to go.He took it like a man and sucked it up.He’s a good kid and it disappointed me after my son told me that although this kid don’t have alot but is good to everyone and just a allround good guy.I was wondering who I could contact with the Jays who could get him a autograph and probably make a Jays fan for life.It would be greatly appreciated by this young man I’m sure.
MW: I wouldn’t know who exactly to contact. I wonder, maybe the marketing department?
- terryMike
I got side tracked about the kid on aour peewee team but I also wanted to add my 2 cents about Vernon Wells. This season was predicted as a bridge to 2010.The great start got everyone’s expectations high and now Wells’ struggles are being used as an escape goat.Vernon ,although maybe overpaid,has been a very big part of this club for awhile.Even after the injuries last season he put up good numbers.Everyone has down years and hopefully this is Vernon’s only one.Fact is,this team is not good enough to win the tough AL East.However, I see alot of potential in the young pitchers and with a few tweeks, this club may still contend next season.I’m really amazed how everyone gets down on the Jays yet fan support is low at the park.I live 3 hours away and have made 2 games so far this season.The stupid Leafs haven’t done #@@% for40 years and could put a team of monkeys on the ice(and most years they have) and still fill the ACC.They say Toronto is a hockey town but I wonder why.The fans put up with mediocrity in hockey forever.At least the Jays have had a few winning seasons lately and back to back World Series wins within my lifetime.
MW: I would actually buy a ticket if the Leafs put a team of monkeys on the ice.
- terryA hard one to take tonight Mike. I saw a funny thing today and I am kinda’ curious about it, and you are great with the rules.. Chavez received the ball, during the at bat, and he ran out to the pitcher while their was a man on 3rd.. Both pitcher and catcher had a small pow-wow with each other with thier backs away from the runner that was on third.. Is that ball still live, because the closest guy to the plate was a hot-dog vender.. Mike I know this sounds trivial but if that runner had of took off, I am pretty sure, if he picked is spot he would of scored.. Mike, I do realise it is 90 ft between home and 3rd but he has got a 8ft. lead-off, ball-park, and if the battery turn thier heads, I say give it a shot.. Marco did a funny deal from 1st to 2nd.. I know you know that one, but I am real curious about that situation I am talking about, and wether it is feasible.. Mike, this is just another quirky part of baseball that we all love.. Thanks Mike..
MW: If the runner took off, he would HAVE scored - but it wouldn’t have counted because before the catcher goes out to the mound for a pow-wow, he calls time.
- FLIPPERHey Mike,
If you’re JP do you even make a counter offer? I would love Toronto to make their demands and stick to them. If there are really so many teams in on this, somebody has to accept what the Jays ask for. In my mind you’re not really being wowed if you have to lower your demands. It’s tough enough for management to rationalize this deal but even tougher if they “settle”.
Thanks
MW: I wouldn’t be completely inflexible, but I’d guarantee I get what I want one way or the other.
- Jeff (from Germany)A string of bad luck with all these close games, or are you starting to put more stock into the “Jays don’t know how to win” angle? Of course, one would have to ignore the first 41 games or so.
Any possible explanations for the bizarre streakiness of the team?
Thanks Mike!
MW: They were playing way over their heads those first 41 games, but they’re playing just as far beneath their capabilities now. I can’t really explain it.
- RoryHi Mike,
I was intrigued about your comment that the Jays biggest offensive failing is that we don’t walk enough. I agree to a point. The Jays don’t seem to work the pitch count much… this would have been nice against Garza in particular because he kills us, but wasn’t the Denbo approach all about working counts?
Denbo took a lot of flak and Tenace’s approach was hailed as a key to our hitting success. Now the batting has reverted to it’s meek 2008 ways and his approach does’nt seem so great. I still think the Jays biggest offensive flaw is the lack of a dominant hitter.
So…why don’t the Jays try to get a young “dominant” hitter and a solid starting pitching prospect for Halladay?
I understand the need for getting multiple prospects, but getting a great hitter would fill a large gap now and for the future?
MW: They have a young “dominant” hitter in Travis Snider, and they’d love to have another one, but they have to take the best package in the overall. I’d love to see them pick up a bat like that in a Halladay deal, and they very well might.
- OzRobFirst, thanks for the blog and the “Jays Talk”…That said I actually don’t want to watch the Jays on
TV..I usually listen to the radio as I don’t get as upset which makes my Wife happy.
I was rather surprised to see Scott Downs come into the game to “close” after the previous adventure. Wondering why Jason Frasor wasn’t brought in this time for the close.
I know that Scott Downs is the official closer but…..And, I shudder when Shawn Camp starts to warm up….
MW: Camp has actually done a terrific job lately. Since the end of May, Camp has thrown 31 innings, allowing 34 baserunners (just one home run) and 22 strikeouts. Opponents are hitting .209/.290/.282 against him, which is phenomenal. So stop shuddering. Why was Downs sent out for the 9th? Because he’s the closer, and you don’t take a closer’s job away after one loss.
- DougLooks like Marcum will be back soon and McGowan will be lucky to be ready for spring training but what is the status of Litsch and Robert Ray.
MW: Litsch had Tommy John in May, so he’ll be lucky to be back for Spring Training. I don’t know what’s going on with Ray.
- DomenickThis was almost too ugly to warrant a comment.I thought Cito left Tallet in too long when he was obviosly tiring but given the big lead at the time I guess it made sense to leave him in as long as possible.Too many other things went wrong to blame Cito for the loss.I think this game does show that we need Tallet back in the bullpen as soon as a replacement starter is available.
MW: Why? Tallet had been in the bullpen for two weeks and they didn’t use him once.
- PaulI think the Jays really miss Scott Downs in the eighth inning setup role and will have to manufacture a closer from within. If you were to pick a list of top three candidates to try that role, who would they be. My first choice would be Brandon League. He scares the hell out of me but perhaps, and this may be a reach, he implodes when he’s pitching in less meaningful games. Many closers don’t do as well when they pitch in non closing situations. Maybe League can run with the role and just let his talent get him through. His numbers are not too bad this year, just 14 walks in 46 innings and a 1.22 WHIP. My second choice would be Casey Jannsen. He was unbelievable in a setup role and while that doesn’t always translate in closing success he’s my second choice. My third choice would be Brian Burres. Just kidding. My third choice would be to go with a commitee of Richmond versus right handed batters and Downs versus left handed batters. Honourable mentions to McGowan, Cecil, Accardo or Frasor. I don’t like any of those roles for those guys but young starters have successfully converted to closers before like Jason Isringhausen. I really only like League and Jannsen in those roles. What do you think? What are your top three candidates from within the organization?
MW: I think Downs is fine, but if you needed to replace him, it’d be Frasor, League and Accardo.
- DomenickMike, just hear the Phils rejected the Jays offer for Halladay, because they don’t want to give up both Happ and Drabek as part of the deal. Are they crazy???? What part of Halladay for 2 playoff runs dosen’t make sense for them?? We all know prospects don’t always turn out right? If I’m the Phils GM I make this deal in a heartbeat!!
MW: Most teams tend to overvalue their top prospects.
- Blair MartinGreat rock bottom moments in Blues Jays history:
1983: Tippy Martinez picks off 3 Blue Jays and Len Sakata hits a three run HR off of Randy Moffit
1984: Joey McLaughlin stands dejectedly on the mound after giving up a game ending HR. Soon after he is run out of town, as the fans call for Dave Geisel to close games
1987: 7 straight losses to close out the year, season ending injuries to Ernie Whitt and Tony Fernandez, as the Jays lost to the Tigers
2006: A West Coast Trip in which the Jays lost 3 of 4 to Oakland as BJ Ryan gives up a game winning dinger
2009: Jays blow leads of 8-0 and 9-1 en route to a 10-9 loss to the Rays. This time its Scott Downs who serves up 9th inning dingers to Pena and Aybar
A real low point today. Nothing more really can be said.
MW: You forgot 2009: Jays blow an 8-3 lead in the 8th and a 10-8 lead in the 11th and lose 12-10 in Baltimore to cap an 0-9 road trip.
- Steve-O From WaterdownMike…
a) Is that fellow Drabek being talked about related to former Pirate and Yankee, Doug Drabek?
b) A little while back on Jays Talk, I just caught your closing remarks and you said something about the reason you’re a stickler for proper English and grammar usage, is being the son of an English teacher or professor. Was that mom or dad Mike?..Not being nosy just that my late dad once told me this story about English and grammar and you’d probably enjoy it.. My dad left Memorial Univ. in St. John’s Newfoundland in 1939 to enlist in the British Navy at the onset of WWII, not the Canadian Navy because Nfld. didn’t join Canada until 1949 and was still a British colony. There weren’t really “Newfie jokes” then, but my dad and fellow Newfoundlanders (the greatest percentage of volunteer enlisters) were somewhat looked down upon. But once the ship’s captain saw my father’s literary and clerical skills, he was asked to do the ship’s books and to write letters back to the captain’s wife because the captain of the lauded King’s Navy couldn’t “put two words together”… I think my dad carried that toughness for usage down to us kids and I’m glad he did…Sorry for the soliloquy Mike, but my dad meant the world to me and I tend to ramble on.
MW: A - Yes, he’s Doug’s son. B - I know you do. My mother was a teacher.
- chris m.Yikes your blog from a couple of days ago with respect to the negativity and constant bashing etc. really worked! I guess a firm talking to is all it takes Mike to get some reasonable and rational comments! Great to see and pleased for you as to the day after very well thought out comments to boot!
Is it only me or do others get frustrated watching Downs when he is in the game! Not with respect to his actual presence or pitching but just the slow work between pitches! His walk abouts, rubbing the ball and resin bag throw downs drive me nutty! I realize for sure all players - especially pitchers have their little things they do!
Maybe it’s just me due to the fact when I played I was a catcher and just waiting on guys like that used to drive me insane. Real knee and back killers! I feel the pain just watching him!
He has great stuff and watching him when he does work a little quicker seems to me anyway, to be far more effective.
How great is this to have the dome! Can you imagine how many games may have been postponed or lengthy delays the Jays would have had this summer if not for that!
I doubt now very much Doc is going anywhere else this season. If there were any real or close deals to be made and all in the organization were aware it, Cito would have had him back on the mound for at least his warm-ups or a batter or two in the 10th inning the other night! That for me was the real tell all as to Doc and his future here as a Jay! At least for the rest of this season! Too bad really, as he would have looked great in a Red Sox uniform the rest of the way!
Games like yesterday happen! The great thing about baseball is you don’t have time to dwell on it or have to wait a week or so to get back out there and turn things around!
Keep up the great work Mike! Take care.
Thank you.
MW: Downs’ between-pitch routine doesn’t bother me - he still works faster than Jason Frasor. As I said, I go back and forth on this, but right now I feel as though Halladay will be traded.
- Bob from BurlingtonEverybody wants a winner. Even Toronto Maple Leaf fans?
To get an overview of the situation take a look at the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Series_winners
Jays are tied for 14th as far as World Series’ wins are concerned.
Minnesota, Cleveland, Baltimore, Chicago Cubs, Kansas City, San Diego, Seattle, Milwaukee and Washington [Montreal] have never even been to the World Series finals since the Blue Jays won it all.
Oakland, the Dodgers, Pittsburgh, SF and Detroit have not won since the Blue Jays won the World Series.
I consider myself a baseball fan — one who believes this is the BEST team sport in the world — and a Blue Jay fan. Yesterday was hard to take — but this is not the first time this has happened.
Remember — the Jays beating Philadelphia in the World Series 15-14.
Great win for the Jays — a real toughie for the Phillies.
Go Jays. Stay Roy!
MW: But aren’t the Leafs third all-time in Stanley Cups?
- Gary RHi Mike
Great interview with Joe Maddon.
I was at the last two games with Tampa and they were painful.
A few questions for you.
1. Why did Cito take League out after the 7th inning? Why didn’t the Jays use any of their bullpen pitchers more than one inning.
2. You mentioned if Halladay is traded, you would see the Jays trade Downs, Frasor, Rolen and Overbay. I thought Frasor and Downs are relatively cheap and are worth keeping. If you trade these people, you will need to replace them. Who would you bring to replace the afore mantioned players?
Thanks
Francis
MW: 1 - League has had issues with his second inning of work this season, and you have to be able to count on Accardo and Downs to hold a four-run lead. 2 - Downs and Frasor ARE relatively cheap, but Downs and Frasor are both free agents after 2010. Who would replace them? Casey Janssen and probably one of the kids who comes over in one of the deals.
- francisHello Mike
I have a suggestion for your blog. It may not fit in with the budget restraints of your show or maybe, you prefer to do this by yourself. My suggestion is to hire someone who wants to learn your business and let them delete some of the silly, rude, crude and unreasonable comments before they get to you. I appreciate all your work and I worry that all this work must have a negative effect on you and your off time. Keep up the good work. I feel like you are the only person in the media who is the voice of reason.
MW: I try. I don’t know if it’s fair to ask an intern to go through the comments.
- StanI have heard yourself and other’s complain about the lack of attendance so I decided to go to the game on Saturday to show my support. Except for the final outcome it had all the ingredients you could ask for. (Batista was the player of the game in my mind). Yes, the home team lost a heartbreaker but for me this game had it all and I was glad I was there. Purists may have hated it but I believe they are in the minority.
So will I be going back anytime soon? No
Here’s why
Parking $20.00
Bottle of WATER $ 4.00×4 (extra inning game)
Bottle of pop $ 4.50
Hot dog $ 6.00×2
Cup of Beer $ 9.50
Ice cream bar $ 5.00×2
Admission $66.00×2
The cost of getting to the game from Hamilton and the hassle of trying to get in and out of the area after the game is also a consideration. Thankfully you can turn on the radio for the post game show to kill the time while stuck in traffic.
Total $196 (I didn’t count the extra 2 waters)
Now, I don’t know about you Mike but this is a cost I could not absorb more than once a month. I bought a field level seat because you had made it a reference point to buying a leaf ticket.
I saw some couples with 2 or 3 kids and I shudder to think what they paid for the family day out.
MW: It cost you $66 a ticket?
- JimMike can you confirm something for me?
A source I have from one of the local scribes has given me some very interesting information.
Paul Beeston had too step in this morning and vetto a trade that J.P. was considering for Halladay.
I can’t give you all the details and the team that was involved shall remain private.
The offer was six left handed relief pitchers. J.P. was all over it,until Beeston got involved.
MW: This is a joke, right?
- dan harrisonI see that Rios was drafted as a 3rd baseman back in 1999. Do you think the Jays would ever consider throwing him back at 3rd?
MW: I don’t know where you saw that. Rios was drafted as an outfielder.
- BrentYou are absolutly right. Today could not possibly be worse than yesterday. Even if they lose by 100 runs, yesterday still just plain sucked.
Note to all the commenters out there; please, please, please check your spelling and grammer. It’s just sad.
Thanks Mike for everything, especially correcting the misinformed, it’s quite entertaining.
P.S. How do you feel about the nickname “The Baron of Blue Jays Baseball?”
MW: I don’t think I like that very much, though I appreciate the effort. But T.J., it’s tough to rip on other commenters for the spelling, no?
- T.J.Hello Mike….Just a few comments…I’am one who puts the blame on the players not JP…JP’s only mistake was that he signed guys like Frank Thomas,BJ Ryan,traded for Overbay and signed Wells and Rios to long term deals in the era of PED’s.Iam not saying these athletes are or have been on the juice but it certainly makes you wonder…..you cant blame JP for that!!….JP is smart getting the Yankees involved in the Doc sweepstakes ironically announced soon after the Phillies rejected the Jays asking price of Drabek and Happ…..that move raises the asking price from the Phillies….could you imagine the Phillies facing Sabathia,Burnett,and Halliday in a three game series……that is assuming that the Phillies were to get past the Dodgers!!…Mike would you trade snakeface for Hughes…
MW: A three-game series? Yes, I would trade Snakeface for Hughes.
- Mark from ThoroldYou bring up a good point about the Jays being unlucky over their last 21 games. Further on that point the Jays are 11-18 in one run games and 4-10 in extra inning games. No major league team has lost more games by one run or in extra innings than the Jays.
Perhaps there is a silver lining to the recent funk. While we as fans cannot really give up on the team unless they have an awful August (all by 9 games against the AL East I believe) finishing in the bottom 15 of the majors may suit the Jays better for a run in 2010. By finishing 16-30 in the Majors the Jays will only lose a 2nd round pick if they choose to sign a Type A free agent. This would allow the Jays to upgrade at the LF/DH platoon that we’ve seen all season by signing someone like Aubrey Huff or V-Mart(or Jason Bay/Manny if you want to dream). This might result in a slight increase in salary but any free agent move would have to be supplemented by Overbay moving, as much as I like the guy, to not block Snider. In addition with Scutaro and Barajas projected as Type A and B free agents respectively the Jays would either be compensated for their leaving, or as was the case with Orlando Cabrera be saved the over inflation of Scutaro’s salary because the lack of a market. Same with Barajas. If the Jays choose to let go of Scutaro for the two first round draft picks perhaps they could pursue Jack Wilson who as a Type B free agent doesn’t cost the Jays a draft pick. As a result you have 3 first round picks, one in the top 15 and a fourth if Barajas signs somewhere else. Sure there are a lot of “hypotheticals” but finishing in the bottom of the league this year might put the Jays in a better position to contend next year and the future.
- BrendanI guess the Phillies didn’t just reject a trade offer either???
MW: There seems to be more truth to that one. But because one report is incorrect doesn’t mean they all are. Maybe you shouldn’t comment here anymore.
- RealityCheckMike,
Penny for your thoughts on the roundtable discussion they have streaming on tsn.ca between Dave Hodge, Damien Cox & Steve Simmons. They called the way JP has handled this a “permanent mark on the franchise”…”a fiasco”…JP has an “inability to tell the truth”.
To me, for a guy like Dave Hodge, who has worked the Toronto sports scene for 40+ years to call Ricciardi as “the guy least capable of dealing with the media of anyone I’ve seen”…he’s later called a ‘dime-store’ general manager.
Anyhow, I think those comments are much more based-in-fact (on their record) than the stuff the Rogers-owned media (including this very site) churns out.
Sorry if this isn’t deemed to be rational & reasonable, but I think it is.
Yours,
Winston.
MW: It’s rational and reasonable to react to what people say on TV. It would be nice, I have to say, to have seen those guys down at the ballpark. Of the three of them, I think they’ve probably been to four or five games between them this year, and it’s all Simmons.
- Winston TuttleMichael,
It seems like we’ve learned a couple of things during JP’s tenure:
1) Moneyball principles aren’t enough to compete in the AL East
2) Increasing payroll isn’t enough to compete in the AL East
Tampa’s success comes from being a player development machine. Certainly, I think JP has done a good job in regards to developing young pitching.
My question is, as a philosophy, has the organization adopted a more aggressive player development strategy? Do you think JP’s view on that has evolved over time?
I was a little surpriseed when the Jays drafted so many Canadians this year. Hopefully that wasn’t a PR thing.
MW: 1 - J.P. has not behaved like a Moneyball guy. 2 - It’s not? Check with the Red Sox. What do you mean a more aggressive player development strategy?
- Uncle Benmike, you have made comments that people hate JP and that’s why they want him fired. actually mike, what people hate is losing, and they want him fired for his decisions. he was given 80 mil, wells and rios under cheap contracts and the BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL and he blew it. JP is married to these players. It’s time we have a different perspective. we need a GM who has a different philosophy on how to build a winning team. this team needs more speed and more power. players like overbay and rolen should be moved immediately.
here’s what another GM might have done last offseason if JP had been fired:
trade bj ryan: he was coming off a good year and given that the jays were cost cutting and bj wasn’t part of the long term future why not trade him and unload that contracts and get a prospect in return
trade overbay and rolen: both these guys have little power and short term contracts. unload that money and respend it elsewhere. they should be traded even now but JP wont do it.
release bautista: this guy is overpaid for a backup. jmac is your backup infielder as well as inglett
call up buck coates: this team has little speed. he could have been used in numerous pinch hit situations and outfield defense. don’t you think he makes that catch that inglett missed?
trade rios/wells: ok wells is probably untradeable but rios does have some value and a team might have bit. at some point you have to evaluate whether rios is going to be part of a championship or not. I don’t think he will and I think he is more likely to decline than improve. It isn’t worth the risk of that contract.
sign a DH: snider was only 20-21. to think he would dominate is just foolish. let him play a full season at AAA. what was the rush. numerous dh types like hinske and branyan were available.
you see there are lots of moves that could have been made but JP has shown an unwillingness to make any moves.
MW: There are always lots of moves that could be made, but no G.M. makes them all. I don’t know that trading Rolen and Overbay last winter at the valley of their value would have been wise, but I agree with you on Ryan.
- jacobyI really dont know why hill is batting second. how many games has cito lost for the jays based on his crazy lineups? why would you have your best power hitter batting second?
MW: Hill’s not their best power hitter, Lind is, and he’s hitting third, where he should be.
- jacobywhy dont we usually hear a trade that involves major league players why is it mostly minor league prospects? and do you think the jays will pay for big fa to contend and to convince roy to stay and will you do that if you were the GM?
MW: When you’re trading from a non-playoff team to a contender, that contender isn’t going to give up players from its major-league roster because it simply wants to bulk up for a playoff run - that’s why you’re only hearing about prospects. The Jays don’t seem to be in a position to put up big bucks this off-season.
- nickthis is in reponse to I think willrain who attacked me on my comments on JP signing mench.
First I never said that hinske wasn’t luck. In fact I said it was luck and that’s what good gm’s do. They sign guys with potential to short contracts.
I erred in that mench was not 35 and in fact was 30. but the problem I have with what JP did is that mench was playing in the minors for texas and JP traded for him and then gave him a ML spot! was he tearing it up for texas? JP seems to sign guys that are released from other teams and give them ML spots. why was delucci called up? was he tearing it up in AAA? noooo.
but comparing hinske and mench there are a few issues. first using their overall stats is irrelevant since both were going to be used as platoon players. I couldn’t figure out why mench didn’t play that well but there were a few red flags. first off hinske was only 1 year removed from a good season, mench it was 2. also if you look at career home/away stats you see that hinske is fairly consistent, but mench had a serious drop in ops on the road. so that means most of his stats he put up in texas stadium. on the road he sucked for his whole career. that’s not a guy I want. also what is really glaring is that he had never hit a home run in toronto! you cant just look at total stats you have to look at specific stats to give you an idea of how that player will play on your team in your ballpark.
- jacobyThat strike 3 call on Hill in the 12th? was about as bad as the results of the last 2 games. How are these umps not held to a higher standard than that. But then again, so should the players.
MW: You have to protect the plate in that situation.
- dan from elmvalemike, you have repeatedly made comments like “29 other teams didn’t sign him…” you seem to be implying that there were 29 smart gm’s and 1 dumb one who got lucky. actually I take the opposite approach. If you sign a guy that nobody wants and he performs then that makes you smart. you can call it lucky but luck is a function of putting yourself in lucky situations.
nobody wanted carlos pena. that makes the rays gm smart for signing him.
nobody wanted andruw jones. that makes the rangers gm smart for signing him.
nobody wanted frank thomas a few years ago. that made the beane smart for signing him. same for jack cust.
were all these guys lucky? of course! that’s the point. it is pointless to whine and complain about how other teams got lucky when you didn’t want to take the chance.
I would rather sign a player cheap who is low risk and high reward, than give a boat load of money to a player like aj burnett who everybody wants. that is a recipe for disaster
MW: And yet, you’ll rip Ricciardi for signing a bunch of players to low-risk, high-reward contracts because they didn’t work out.
- jacobyHi Mike
I think you mentioned when you were talking to Vernon Wells and he admitted he has trouble seeing tbe ball . Pat Tabler today said the same thing.
How do you fix a problem like that?
Francis
- francisWilner,
How long does it take for the roof to open and close? As the weather has gotten better throughout the day, who decides if the roof should open?
MW: 20 minutes, and I’m not sure.
- BobbyMW: I don’t understand why so many people believe that Ricciardi saying that Halladay won’t sign an extension has blown his chance of making a good trade. It’s a ridiculous assertion.
It’s more rediculous that you find this riduculous. When every buyer knows the seller HAS to sell, clearly the seller is at a big disadvantage.
MW: I didn’t know you could force a fielding error.
Players like Suzuki and Crawford with a lot of SPEED force fielders to hurry their plays, which often lead to errors.
MW: You know that’s not going to happen. I continue to think it’s awesome that J.P. gets roasted by the fans for lying, and roasted equally by the fans for telling the truth.
He is not being roasted for telling the truth. He is being roasted for not keeping his “Grand Canyon” shut!
MW: Every buyer knows the seller has to sell, but the seller has a full calendar year to sell, and there are lots of buyers in line. Check and see how many more times Crawford and Suzuki reach on errors relative to the rest of the league.
- Cito ManOh,for heaven’s sake.They didn’t win those games because they didn’t play well enough to win.
It’s the typical loser’s lament.
Fact is that this team can’t get it done in the close games.
And you can blame the hitters who time after time fail late in games and extra innings.
MW: What, exactly, is the typical loser’s lament? It’s a real shame the Jays only have hitters who are capable of hitting in the first five or six innings of a game.
- david998yo wilner
why u delete my comments i have not sworn or anything, all i have done is ask these things
1) You said that the fan that asked rios for his autograph at the event and rios cursed at the guy was not an average fan (and i believe that the guy calling him a bum was right)
2) I asked about how JP was at drafting i said below average and u disagreed, what great draftin has he done
3) Almost everyone under the sun believes that JP should be fired except u, why is that
please answer all the questions this time because you seem to only answer 1 of my questions when i ask
MW: I delete the comments that are rude, insulting or obscene. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t going to deal with those anymore. As to your questions: 1 - The kid who asked for the autograph was a kid who is often sent up to players by aggressive adult autographs collectors/sellers to ask for dozens of autographs or more. 2 - I think his draft record is pretty good and I’ve gone over it dozens of times. Quickly, though - Lind, Hill, Snider, Marcum, Romero, Cecil, Rzepczynski, Janssen, Litsch and the players that brought over Scutaro, Accardo, Tallet, McDonald and Overbay. 3 - Again, a question I’ve answered dozens, if not hundreds, of times.
- DanielHey Mike,
What do you think about trading Wells to the Giants for Barry Zito. The Giants need offense and I think Wells would do well there with the change in scenery. Zito could work with Arnsberg and hopefully that could help him become successful again. Zito could help mentor all the young lefty starters we have and if Doc is traded he would be some one who has been in a major league rotation for more that one season. Money would not be an issue because both contracts are very similar.
What do you think?
Thanks
MW: I’d MUCH rather have Wells than Zito with those contracts.
- Paul B.and u should go on PTS this week
MW: I’ll go on anytime they ask.
- DanielSo apparently the Phillies countered with Happ, Carlos Carrasco, Michael Taylor, and Jason Donald.
Gosh, that’s a good offer, isn’t it? Carrasco isn’t as highly regarded as Drabek but he’s got darned good peripherals at AAA and he’s only 22. (He’s likely also a better driver.) Michael Taylor is a monster with high averages and good power at every level. Jason Donald’s not hitting well this year but he has before and he’s as good as any middle infield guy the Jays have at Vegas.
The Jays could really use Taylor. How is this offer any worse than what they wanted in Happ, Drabek, and an outfielder much further from the majors than Taylor?
MW: Apparently is the key word there. That’s a solid offer, but it’s not a fantastic blow-me-away type of offer, which is what the Jays need to get. There’s still five days to go, too.
- Rick JonesMike,
I heard a report that the padres were maybe going to shop adrian gonzalez and heath bell at the deadline,
How about
To Toronto Blue Jays
-Adran Gonzalez
-borderline pitching prospect
To San Diego Padres
-Roy Halladay
-Lyle Overbay
MW: Why would the Padres do that? That’s not the direction in which they’re headed.
- JazzUnless baseballreference.com is incorrect. It states that Rios was drafted as a 3rd baseman.
See link attached.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?query_type=year_round&year_ID=1999&draft_round=1
MW: Weird. The cube says he was drafted as an outfielder, and that’s how I remember it at the time.
- BrentMike,
I find It starnge that you defend Jp the way you do, and never seem to challange him when he throws good players(especially a class act like Roy Halladay) and Adam Dunn under the bus. If a fan was to throw Roy Halladay under the bus you would dismiss them immediatley. Isn’t that contradictary. It’s also mind blowing that you cannot understand why people are fed up with this guy. You make it seem as though JP has done no harm and the fanbase are the ones with horns on their heads. Mike JP jas probably got to be one of the most disruptive GM’s in the league.
From the indictment of Alex Rios earlier in his tenure about his lack of home run production, to the indictment of Adam Dunn to the indictment of Roy Halladay. A definite contrast from a class act in Gillick.
MW: I completely understand why people are fed up with J.P., believe me. I just think those people are misguided, and buying too much into other people’s agendas. I don’t see at all how Ricciardi either indicted Halladay or threw him under a bus.
- ThomasMike…a)Don’t know if you saw A.J Pierzynski’s antics in the dugout showing up his pitcher? (I think it was Gavin Floyd) Very childish, but not surprising coming from him.
b)A little math if it’s not too much of a bother. What’s Brandon League’s era minus his blow-up vs. the Marlins the night Doc got hurt?
MW: A - Didn’t see it. B - 3.72.
- chris m.Nice game, all around. Doesn’t change my future expectations, but a couple of hits when needed, and a couple of add-on runs, just nice. League was nice too, even though I know he doesn’t know where the ball is going, either.
Frasor’s post game on sportsnet was too true.
Q: How do you put the recent tough losses behind you?
A: Necessity, or else the next two months could be really tough.
That about sums it up for me. Now they go back on the road, where Vernon can resume his quest for the away games batting title! (Don’t tell him there’s no such thing, it’ll break his heart.)
MW: You can hear more from Frasor on The Blue Jays This Week tonight!
- Greg WHey Mike,
So I am curious what you think of the apparent offer of the Jays to the Phillies. 3 high end young guys with a lot of years of control. Seems like the Jays would do pretty well if they could get philly to take it. I am a huge Halladay but in all honesty this may be the best move for the team at this time.
I am curious though why no one seems to consider that if Halladay does decide to leave in a year and a half (from whichever team he’s with) that team will get a 1st round pick and a sandwich pick. Wouldn’t that account for 2 high end prospects right there? So really its just an added prospect and granted some guys that are closer to major league ready.
Personally I would think that with all of the young pitchers the Jays seemingly have that an offer of Drabek, Marson, Brown and Taylor should be enough for the Jays to jump. Jays have been searching for a catcher since forever and Arencibia’s season this year is not encouraging.
Just my 2 cents but I would be curious as to what you would see as fair value for the greatest BLUE JAY (in and out of uniform)
Dave
MW: The draft picks do account for extra picks, should whatever team Halladay is traded to not sign him, and I guarantee you the Blue Jays are keeping that in mind in their discussions with other teams. As for Marson, I like him, but is he really that much better than Brian Jeroloman?
- DaveLooks like it will be the Phillies or nobody!
“According to Ken Rosenthal, the Dodgers and Indians are in serious discussions about a trade that would send both Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez to Los Angeles in exchange for James Loney, a young starting pitcher, and prospects.
The deal still faces significant obstacles due to the caliber of players involved, but the Dodgers clearly want to strengthen themselves for a strong postseason showing.
Rosenthal names Class AA third baseman Josh Bell, Class AA outfielder Andrew Lambo, Class AAA starter Scott Elbert and Class AAA right-hander Josh Lindblom as prospects who are being discussed. All of the prospects are in the Dodgers’ Top 10, according to Baseball America, with Lambo coming into the season as the Dodgers’ top prospect.
It’s unknown if the Dodgers would part with Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw in a deal to acquire the Indians’ superstars.”
MW: So it was only going to be the Phillies or the Dodgers? That’s news.
- Renegadei read in the comments section that the jays need 2 gd moves to be very good in what areas? and can you give an example in a trade scenario or any other? and will they need the 2 moves and to keep roy?
thank you
MW: I can’t give you an exact trade scenario, but the Jays would be much, much better off if they were getting offense from the LF/DH (non-Lind) spot and from behind the plate. Yes, they’d need to keep Halladay to be great.
- nickAnd just wondering, why haven’t we seen Hayhurst since July 8th, MLB still shows him on the 25 man roster… am I missing something?
MW: Guys get lost in the bullpen all the time.
- Greg Wyo mike
yo mike
what do you think we could get for wells. Since JP signed him to a contract that was stupid to sign almost any player to(especially one with injury, and consistency issues) he is basically immovable. Is there any chance we can dump him or no. I was thinking that maybe the yankees would take his contract if we agree 2 pay like 1/3 or half of it.
Also, u wondering if the Giants would still do Lincecum 4 Rios (joke)
MW: It’s not worth trading Wells if they have to pay that much of his contract. He’s worth half to 2/3 of his contract.
- DanielMW: 1 - J.P. has not behaved like a Moneyball guy. 2 - It’s not? Check with the Red Sox. What do you mean a more aggressive player development strategy?
1.JP sure has drafted like a moneyball GM with all the college players he’s drafted.
2. You’re right, I should have contextualized my point to say you have to spend on par with the Red Sox or Yankees to compete. The Jays haven’t or won’t.
By more aggressive player development I mean scouting more in international markets, the way Gillick and company mined the Dominican market. Also, diversifying the draft portfolio to have a higher mix of high school players and college players.
BTW - What was your opinion of all the Canadians the Jays drafted this year?
Thanks.
MW: 1 - He did, but then he changed his strategy. I think it’s cool that they drafted so many Canadians, but I hope they can play.
- Uncle BenMW: I don’t know - I wouldn’t want J.P. to be picking up some other team’s retread for nothing. That seems to annoy the fans.
It will stop annoying the fans when he picks up someone that is actually worth picking up.
MW: Yeah, Scott Downs is terrible. So’s Marco Scutaro.
- isabella reyesJust in. Marcum pulled after 2 IP for 51’s. Soreness?
MW: Hope not!
- Renegade“this is in reponse to I think willrain who attacked me on my comments on JP signing mench.”
A dispute is not an attack.
“mench was playing in the minors for texas and JP traded for him”
Hardly a trade - he only gave up cash. Mench had ben signed to a minor league deal - as Carlos Pena among many many others have over the years. that in itself is not a guarantee a player has nothing to offer. in fact, it’s possible Hinske was on one when he made the Rays but I’m uncertain on that.
“. first using their overall stats is irrelevant since both were going to be used as platoon players.”
Agreed.
Mench’s career OPS v. LHP was .900 and his 2007 OPS in that situation was .901
Hinske’s career split vs. RHP is .805, and in 2007 it was .708
“but mench had a serious drop in ops on the road. so that means most of his stats he put up in texas stadium”
That great split vs LHP in 2007? Yes it was also a season in which he split heavily better at home - it was also a season in which he played in Milwaukee.
He also has a career OPS of .929 in Toronto, in 82 career at bats. Yes, Texas is a homer friendly park, but there’s no point in over analyzing trying to find support for your claim.
Why is it so VERY difficult to admit that some flyers (Hinske, Pena, Downs, Carlson) work out and some (Mench, Hee Seop Choi among others for the Rays and many many others) don’t?
No one is going to defend Dellucci, or Wilkerson. I have no problem at all admitting JP picks up and clings to entirely too many retreads.
but as it happens, Mench was a perfectly reasonable and defensible move which just so happened to have not worked out.
You DON’T NEED Mench in order for your original point to stand - so why feel “attacked” and why go to such great lengths to cling to him when you could wax eloquent about Brad Wilkerson and David Delucci and be spot on?
- WillRainMW: I completely understand why people are fed up with J.P., believe me. I just think those people are misguided, and buying too much into other people’s agendas. I don’t see at all how Ricciardi either indicted Halladay or threw him under a bus.
I don’t think my opinion of Ricciardi–although it may well differ from yours–is ‘misguided, and buying too much into other people’s agendas’. In fact I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant to say is it? You don’t believe do you, we’re such mindless nongs that we buy everything anyone in the media might say and believe it just ‘cos it’s in the paper? My dislike and distrust of JP Ricciardi is based solely on what I’ve seen of his demeanour and performance
MW: I do think that the vast majority of those who loath JP are as you state.
- isabella reyesHey Mike
“The stupid Leafs haven’t done #@@% for40 years and could put a team of monkeys on the ice(and most years they have) and still fill the ACC.”
The Leafs have made the final four in the NHL four times since the Jays’ last playoff appearance. Their overall record over the past 16 years is significantly better than the Jays. They have been below .500 once since the 97-98 season.
MW: I thought you were the stat lady. I would have thought that you’d see counting overtime/shootout losses as ties for the purposes of calculating .500 to be counter-intuitive. When you count all their losses as losses, the Leafs were 34-48 last season, 36-46 the season before, 40-42 the year before that. In ‘05-’06 they finished .500, and they were 45-27-10 in the pre-lockout season (2003-04), which was the last time they had a winning record.
- stats ladyJim wrote: “The cost of getting to the game from Hamilton and the hassle of trying to get in and out of the area after the game is also a consideration. Thankfully you can turn on the radio for the post game show to kill the time while stuck in traffic”
Jim:
You can save on parking cost and the traffic hassle by parking at the Islington subway station (free parking weekends and holidays) and buy a day pass for $9.00 to take the subway to and from Union Station. It is about a 45 minute trip one way.
Unfortunately you will not hear Jays Talk because of the poor reception, but you can listen to it from the blog once Mike posts it.
MW: There are ways to get around a lot of the costs if one is willing to be a little creative. Take the GO Train, bring your own food, buy a hot dog from the carts outside, those sorts of things.
- Ian D. ElsasserMW: It would be nice, I have to say, to have seen those guys down at the ballpark. Of the three of them, I think they’ve probably been to four or five games between them this year, and it’s all Simmons.
So because they don’t go to enough games, they are not knowledgeable enough to evaluate JP’s performance. That’s a ridiculous response to some valid criticisms of JP’s stewardship.
____________________________
For all those people who think that line-up construction has an material impact on runs scored I’m sure they are all glad to see how much the Jays’ offense had improved since Rios and Wells have been moved down in the order. It’s been great to see the improvement.
MW: I didn’t say that they aren’t knowledgeable enough, but they’d certainly be more knowledgeable if they were actually down there talking to the people about whom they were talking.
- alexI really hope the Dodgers don’t land Victor Martinez, as I’d like to see him become a Blue Jay.
I was thinking that Barajas, Tallet & Casey Jansen or Bobby Ray would be enough to get him. But, I’m not sure anymore. What do you think the Jays would have to send to the Indians to land Martinez?
(Btw, I think Bobby Ray’s nickname should be the “Minister of K”. Not sure if he’s much of strikeout pitcher, tho.)
MW: That offer wouldn’t even be in the neighbourhood of enough to get Vic.
- RomeMike,
It’s been a while since I’ve been here so forgive me if I am being redundant. I think the Jays are in a win-win situation. If they make a trade or two(Halladay, Rolen) they should get some good young players in return. If not, they keep the BEST starting pitcher in baseball. They already have a good core of players in Hill, Lind, and yes, Wells and Rios. With the pitchers coming back in 2010, and maybe turnarounds from Wells and Rios will be great with Halladay anchoring the staff. I do agree that Rolen playing this good for much longer is a lot to ask so I would sell now. Do you think that Brad Arnsberg get the credit he deserves? Everbody talks about Dave Duncan, Leo Mazzoni, and Stottlemyer back in the day. Arnsberg has been nothing short of amazing this year with what he has to work with. I am still excited listening to games and hearing the young pitchers develope and look forward to next year regardless of what happens at the trade deadline. Thanks and great job.
MW: I’m very reluctant to give coaches too much credit. Most of it is on the players.
- Texas Justin“2) I asked about how JP was at drafting i said below average and u disagreed, what great draftin has he done”
Since 2002, the Jays are among the top 3 teams in putting drafted players on their major league roster, both if you count all players, or if you count only important players.
The other two in the top 3 being Boston and San Francisco.
Using a cut off of 50 IP and 75 AB as minimums, only the Giants have put more players in the majors, and there are 5 or 6 teams who have produced important major leaguers and the Jays are among them.
A year or more back, someone at Beyond the Box Score (IO think) did an analysis of win-shares produced by each team’s draftees and the Jays were in the top 5 on that list too - and that was before a lot of recent production by Jays’ home-grown players.
- WillRainHi Mike,
I’m disappointed in the Toronto fans who continually boo Vernon. When David Ortiz was struggling with the Red Sox earlier in the year, the Sox fans kept his spirits up and he’s finally started to come around.
Lighten up Toronto fans! We’re not going to see any improvement if you constantly put added pressure on Wells!
- Larry KondoHi Mike,
Please forgive my negative post yesterday. I was caught up in the aftermath of a blown lead, but I am now sane.
Anyhow, given that Brandon League is thought of by many as the closer of the future and given that he has been, for the most part, very good this season, what do you think of putting him in the closers role the remainder of the season just to see what he can do? I think it is time. I don’t think there is anything to lose since the Jays are most likely out of the playoff race. League could handle the closing duties and Fraser and Downs can work the 7th and 8th as set up guys. What do you think?
MW: If Downs is healthy, I don’t have a problem with him closing for the rest of this year and next.
- Ian from WhitbyHi Mike; which of the following would you rather have bat cleanup for your team if you were a major league GM:
Pat Schmoody, Tom Young or Jason Niven?
MW: Tom Young.
- ZackMW: It cost you $66 a ticket?
Yes
And going back for Aug 9th only because of the reunion weekend (Wife hopes Pat Borders is still around)
Two tickets for Aug 9th vs Orioles
Section 219 $66.00 apiece plus charges = $142.50 for 2
Are you surprised at this? How do you feel about the other charges I mentioned? Are they reasonable in your opinion?
MW: I am surprised, but you didn’t have to buy one of the most expensive seats in the house. The other prices are all reasonable for a major-league sporting event or a movie (except parking is cheaper at the movies and there’s no beer).
- JimYou once said the good things J.P has done would far outweigh the bad things he has done..
So I did a little research..Here is what I found..
Trades..
Good trades: Nothing really stands out but I like the Brian Tallet for Edward Buzachero trade..Tallet has been a decent starter but much better in the bullpen..This Buzachero character is out of baseball..
Decent trades..Here is where you will find most of his trades..
Ted Lilly for Bobby Keilty..Lilly pitched Ok for Toronto.. Keilty was a utility guy but nothing special..
Glaus for Rolen..Glaus was better last season but Rolen has picked it up and made up for it..However, Rolen has one more year at 11mil..Glaus is a free agent next season..
Hillenbrand for Accardo..Hillenbrand’s ship has sunk and picking up a decent arm for him was pretty good..
Bad trades..
Jayson Werth for Jason Frasor..I’m gonna call this one a bad deal..Werth was great in the playoffs last year and has 21 Hr this year..He is a former first round pick and the Jays just gave up on him too soon..Frasor has been a decent reliever but I’d take a 20-30 Hr guy any day of the week..
Most of his trades have turned out relatively even or inconsequential…Not sure where the Overbay trade would fit in but as it stands right now, he is better then Bush, Jackson and Gross..
Signings..
Good..Scutaro,Downs,Barajas and the Halladay and Hill extensions..The Burnett signing was ok but not great..
Bad..B.J Ryan, Frank Thomas,Wells,Rios and Overbay..
He signed many more players but most of them either didn’t cost much or didn’t have much effect on the team..
Drafts..Hill,Marcum,Lind,Romero and Snider look to be his best picks..19 of his picks have played at least one game in MLB since 2002..Purcey and Russ Adams look to be his worst picks but we won’t know for a few more years..Not bad but you could say the same of Ash..
Overall his 8 seasons here have been average..He inherited a team with payroll issues and will leave the team the same way..
A perennial non playoff team hovering around .500 won’t make people want to do cartwheels in the parking lot and fork out dough to watch them..
His downfall has been his mouth..Too many plans, excuses and too much lip service has put him in the bad books..He has drafted and signed some good players but lacks vision and creditability..
MW: I can’t believe the way you’ve assessed some of the trades. Kielty for Lilly is only decent? Adam Peterson for Shea Hillenbrand for Jeremy Accardo? Those are three excellent trades, and so was the one to get Scutaro (who wasn’t a signing). Jayson Werth for Jason Frasor was a bad deal? You do realize that Werth left the team to which the Jays traded him as a free agent long before he became a 20+ homer guy, right? You’re like most of the JP haters - you want him gone because you don’t like his personality and image, not because of his work.
- ray bwillrain:
I don’t know what’s with your obsession with my posts. you should try coming up with your own thoughts rather than going through my posts with a fine toothed comb trying to find something to argue about.
I stand behind my comments. mench’s ops outside of arlington was a little of .700 which is horrible. although it was a low risk, it was also low upside so it was a complete waste of time.
MW: This comment made me laugh as hard as I have ever laughed about anything that’s ever been posted here.
- jacobyyou deleted my post again. you asked me a question, I answered it. I have no idea what you find wrong with it.
MW: I deleted it because of the rudeness - “it would help if you actually read the post”.
- jacobyyo mike what moves do you think will take place this offseason
I think that halladay will be moved by the offseason, or by at least 2010 deadline
also, I belive at least one of these guys will be moved this offseason but hopefully more. They are Rios, Wells, Overbay. do you see any FA replacements
Finally, what agenda do you think there is about firing JP, I believe that you are too paranoid about people wanting JP fired, and his record speaks for itself. You make it sound like some sort of conspiracy to why a large majority of jays fans want JP out
plz answer all question not just 1
thx
MW: I also think Halladay will be moved by next year’s deadline at the latest, but I don’t know that any of those others you mentioned will be traded this off-season if Halladay isn’t moved this week. JP’s record does indeed speak for itself, and that record shows that he’s built a very competitive team in a very competitive division, which wouldn’t indicate that he should be fired.
- DanielMW: Hill’s not their best power hitter, Lind is, and he’s hitting third, where he should be.
Hill has 24 hr and lind has 20 hr. who was talking about moving lind? Hill should be batting 4th or 5th where he would come up with more runners on.
MW: For someone who just complained about somebody else going through his comments with a fine-toothed comb, you continue to be hilarious. That response that you selected and then whined about out of context was in response to a commenter SUGGESTING THAT HILL BE HITTING THIRD. I have really had enough of you.
- jacobyMike,
Who are your top 3 AL Cy Young nominees so far?
MW: Halladay, Halladay and Halladay
- SHANEApparently Adrian Gonzalez is not untouchable. Don’t you think the Jays should go after him? I’m assuming the package would have to start with Cecil and Snider, would you do it?
MW: Nope.
- Hollywood Hulk HoganThree questions Mike,
1. What do you think the chances are that the Jays will be involved in a multi-team team if they trade Halladay?
2. a) Have any of Eliopoulous, Paxton or Jenkins signed and b) when’s the deadline for the Jays to sign them?
Thanks.
MW: 1 - Very low. 2a - Nope. 2b - mid-August.
- JamesIt drives me crazy when people quote Moneyball without really understanding what was written. Moneyball described a GM who excelled at finding undervalued players (which J.P. is actually very, very good at). The book was not about just drafting college players, OBP etc. What the book was saying was that MLB teams were not correctly valuing these assets, so there was an advantage there for the taking. The important thing is that what is undervalued is fluid and subject the change.
This is what Griffin and so many don’t understand. For example, they state that J.P. has dropped his Moneyball ways by drafting high school players. Maybe, just maybe, the Jays are drafting more high school players because the college advantage has run its course because so many other teams are drafting college players!
By the way, the Rays are not a player development machine. They drafting in the 1-5 positions for what seems to be a millenium. And they still screwed up on multiple choices.
J.P. has actually done a very good job, better than most realize. He has drafted extremely well and has found numerous undervalued players. The Jays are in tough with the Yankees and Red Sox and that is all there is to it. They would win any other division in baseball.
Peace (glad to get that off of my chest).
MW: Happy to oblige.
- Johnyo i was looking at the 2011 FA list, are there any players that you are looking that the JAys could make a play for anyone, or who the jays would be interested in if they become a FA (1b, 3b etc..)
i feeling Carlos Pena if he leaves TB, or Werth
MW: I’ve answered that question a few times already.
- DanielMike,
When you say you think that some people’s opinion is misguided because they are buying into other people’s agenda. Mike that sounds pretty arrogant and like you take people that has been following this team for years to be idiots. It also sounds like you are taking shots at other well respected media types that have differing opinions on JP than you do, sort of like Toth took shots at you that time and you were not to amused.
Mike if you cannot see that JP has displayed arrogance and has lacked much professionalism and has msde franchis hurting errors (BJ Ryan, Frank Thomas, Vernon Wells, Corey Koskie), in many instances in his tenure than that’s your peroggative, Just don’t be disrespecting the fanbase who has the opportunity to stay just as informed as you through vechiles such as the inernet,satellite, digital cable and other resources of knowledge.
MW: I understand that there are many “resources of knowledge” but again, I think that anyone who looks at Ricciardi’s tenure - you know what, I’m not going to repeat myself for a 300th time.
- ThomasHello Mike
I was at the game where the Jays blew the 8 run lead and you are right, why do fans boo Wells when he just went 2 for 2 and on his third at bat, he popped up. I think people here just get on a negative roll on both Wells and Rios. I also hear a lot of negative comments on Overbay when attending games, calling him Overpaid.
I am on a Travis Snider watch, waiting for him to get a call up. Though he is only batting around .227, he is getting a hit pretty well each game, walks and an RBI. A good sign, I wish there is a place where you can see his OBP stats. Is there such a site for minor league players Mike, where you can see all his stats?
Another question - how ready do you think Angel Sanchez is for big league play?
MW: Go to milb.com for all the stats on any minor-leaguer. Angel Sanchez has already played in the major leagues, with KC. He’s not a high-upside prospect.
- francisMW: Yeah, Scott Downs is terrible. So’s Marco Scutaro.
I’ll give you Scott Downs. But Scutaro wasn’t released by Oakland, he was traded. We were talking about retreads, not trades weren’t we?
MW: Scutaro was traded as a 32 year-old lifetime utility player for two non-descript minor-leaguers. He might as well have been released. Definitely a retread.
- isabella reyesHello Mike,
Why do I keep hearing (not from you)that JP won’t trade Halladay to teams in the Jays’ own division? Dan Shulman was just heard on CBC Radio that Halladay wouldn’t be going to Yankees, for that reason. That’s silly, right? If the Jays trade Halladay for prospects, they won’t be contending this year or next. So what difference does it make if Boston or the Yankees get him?
MW: The Jays have no problem trading Halladay in the division, but they would make the Yanks, Red Sox or Rays pay a premium.
- Evan WhiteMike,
Perhaps you’ve touched on this before, so apologies in advance if this has been mentioned.
The Phils are obviously not interested in a Drabek + Happ package, but it appears they would be willing to deal Happ?
I’m just confused, as to me, trading one player who is on your active roster as an SP and is contributing for another (albeit better) SP doesn’t make a lot of sense for a contending team.
You would assume Philly is trying to shore up their starting pitching by trying to acquire Halladay, so it confuses me why dealing Happ seems to be a possibility, when that in itself will hurt their rotation.
Since Drabek isn’t yet in the majors, it would seem to make more sense to trade him instead, since the Phillies seem to be going for a win now approach.
Any insight?
MW: Happ is their 5th starter, Halladay would be a major upgrade.
- ColeHey Mike,
I agree with you completely. The Vernon bashing is completely unnecessary. A player can not seem to have a bad year in Toronto. Or maybe just Vernon. I cant remember Rolen being booed last year when he was hitting poorly all year until he corrected his approach at the plate, and he’s technically making more then Vernon last year, and this year.
Toronto fans drive me nuts because enough of them in the stands are not diehards and well it’s nice to see them help fill the stands, it isn’t fun watching them heckle our players. Last year it was all about heckling the other team’s players (which I was totally fine with), I never heard negative attitudes towards the various underachievers (Stairs, Rolen, Overbay).
What did Vernon do to anyone, he’s a quiet guy, a gentleman, and he doesn’t decline to autograph (a la Alex Rios). He works his tail off to improve, and I am pretty sure next year won’t result in the same struggles.
Sorry for the venting, it’s been a long home stand for me, of ups and downs, mostly downs, and I have started to go to jays games just for the pure enjoyment of baseball, and less interested in pennant watching.
Final note, Vernon passed Tony Fernandez yesterday for 3rd in hits as an all-time blue jay, do you think theirs any chance he catches Delgado?
MW: There’s no question. Wells is here another six years, he’ll pretty much have the record book to himself when he’s done.
- paoloHi Mike,
Can you tell me what happened with Robert Ray? I follow the Jays minor league systems closely and he appears to be healthy, but hasn’t pitched since he was up with the big leagues.
As well, what chance do you think Tim Collins and Daniel Farquhar have of making the big leagues in the next two years?
MW: Ray is hurt - ribcage, I think. The next two years? It’s decent.
- Clayton KolleeHi Mike,
There is so much conjecture and speculation going on about the Jays right now that things are starting to get confusing.
What do you think is JP’s status? Is he going to stay on or will he be out of here when his contract is up? I don’t think he’ll ever be fired and don’t think he should be, but his own comments the other day seem to suggest he won’t be in the Jays long term plans.
So…if he is going to trade Halladay and, as many suggest, conduct a general clean out sale and revamp, what are the Jays thinking in letting a guy who won’t be your future GM determine your immediate future?
I don’t get it. It leads me to think that this will be JP’s last season and that most of the trades will take place in the off season by a new GM.
MW: Really, the only one who can answer that is the new President.
- OzRobMike…I’m not a Wells-basher or any Jay-basher as you can tell from my past comments. But the “sweater guy” from Friday night and one of your responses to a blogger about this guy left me a little puzzled. You stated that Wells just sucks at home, he doesn’t suck. At the risk of stating the obvious and trying to sound like a wise guy, which is not my intention, the game Friday night was at home and Wells was 0 for 4 with 2 K’s, further contributing to his .170 avg. at home. And it’s just not reality for disgruntled fans to yell “You suck but you’re great on the road.” Now having said all this, I wasn’t there first hand like you Mike, so my opinion is probably worthless. I’m sure it wasn’t the word suck that bothered you, because it’s used here and on Jays Talk aplenty, and if you found it in bad taste, you would not use it or allow commenters to use it.
MW: No, it wasn’t the use of the word “suck”. But to say that any big-leaguer sucks is a little nuts. Regardless, though, to run down onto the dugout, and scream “you suck” basically right into a guy’s face - seriously, what kind of human being are we talking about?
- chris m.Don’t you think Phillies offer- 4 prospects- looked very fair ?
Don’t you think Beeston is in charge of the Halladay trade far more than Ricciardi?
Don’t you think it’s shameful that Sunday’s Dog Day out-drew Halladay’s last start by almost 6,000?
MW: 1 - Fair, maybe. Enough? No. 2 - Not even a little. 3 - Yup.
- Chasmichael,
while listening to the post game show yesterday on the dock in muskokaville with my trusty transistor radio (the weather was much better up north this weekend there than in the city it sounds like) i continually found myself being somewhat amazed by the consistency & commonality of the calls re: one v. wells.
of course it’s not hard to understand the frustration aspect of it by the ball fans of this town. but what gets me is they all seem to be in unison & to steal a term from your profession, “burying the lead.”
cause the real story here isn’t the fact that he’s not good it’s that he’s maybe the worst hitter in mlb at his home park this particular season & challenging for a batting title on the road in the same.
to me, that’s the true frustration pending here. and to add to this very quizical develpoment that we’re all enduring is the fact the opposite is not ocurring. cause’ logic to me dictates he’d most probably be very good at the comforts of his home field & challenged on the road.
i find this most bizarre i must say.
MW: Join the club.
- darrell bishophey mike,
i don’t know much about other teams prospects so the names that people are throwing around mean nothhing to me. i was wondering if you could give me an idea of what the jays would have to offer to get halladay if the situation was reversed. so what would the jays need to offer if they were in the phillies situation. thanks
MW: Wow, good question. I’d think the Jays would have to offer Cecil, Snider, Rzepczynski and a lower-level prospect.
- benMW: This comment made me laugh as hard as I have ever laughed about anything that’s ever been posted here.
glad to oblige!
- jacobyMW: For someone who just complained about somebody else going through his comments with a fine-toothed comb, you continue to be hilarious. That response that you selected and then whined about out of context was in response to a commenter SUGGESTING THAT HILL BE HITTING THIRD. I have really had enough of you.
I have no idea what you are talking about. “that response that I selected” WAS MINE! I wrote in post 35 “why is hill batting second?” which “commenter” are you talking about? who said hill should bat third? it wasn’t me. no where did I say hill should bat third. I said in post 77 he should bat 4th or 5th. I was “whining”? what are you talking about?
MW: Wow, you’re right. I apologize. You didn’t say Hill should hit 3rd, you simply said “why is their best power hitter batting second?” You didn’t deserve that reaction there, though you have certainly deserved it for a great many of the comments you’ve left here, which is more than likely why you got it.
- jacobyre comment: 73
Ted Lilly had an era of 4.64 as a Jay and a whip over 1.4..His best year was his last before free agency..His ERA was 5.56 in 05′..Not sure how you would call an ERA close to 5.00 a good thing or a good pitcher..I think your assessing the 2009 Lilly..He wasn’t that good in Toronto..
Accardo didn’t make the team out of spring training..But they got something for nothing and it was a good deal and I noted that..
As for Hillenbrand..The guy was an idiot but the trade was good for Riccardi..I’ll give you that one..But I didn’t include a few things such as the release of Carpenter or the fact that Randy Wells is looking pretty good for the Cubs..Both of these guys could be here or at least he could have got something for them..
How about keeping Shanon Stewart over Reed Johnson?..Where is Stewart these days?..Johnson batted .303 for the Cubs last year..Yea these are some excellent choices..Lets break out the party hats, Riccardi for Mayor!!
As for Werth..You forgot to include the fact that he had 16Hr in 87 games in LA..That was the first year after the trade..He struggled a bit after that but looks good now..Not unlike Adam Lind..No way Riccardi gives up on Werth if he was his pick..
I didn’t say his trades were awful but I think you like Riccardi and glorify all his good trades but fall short on some of his bad dealings..
Did any of his so called excellent trades put the Jays over the top ?..I’d say no way..That is the bottom line right?..Results
MW: Results don’t occur in a vacuum, though. They didn’t give up on Werth - he was out of options and wasn’t going to make the team. Lilly might not have been an all-star during his tenure in Toronto (actually, he was his first year here), but he was a solid starter and they got him for Bobby Kielty.
- ray bHalladay will be traded no question. There is zero upside to keeping him at this point. And with all the hype, he’s been mentioned as being the best pitcher in baseball. He’s very good buy not the best in all of baseball.
MW: Who’s better? And there’s plenty of question as to whether he’ll be traded, and there’s definitely some upside to keeping him.
- dave_12MW: Who’s better? And there’s plenty of question as to whether he’ll be traded, and there’s definitely some upside to keeping him.
Keep him and get nothing for him when he leaves via free agency
Any of the following pitchers are as good if not better than Halladay
CC Sabathia,Tim Lincecum Johan Santana Cole Hamels ect. But as usual around a trade the hype machine has elevated Halladay as the best by a huge margin over these guys which is ridiculous
MW: Keeping Halladay now doesn’t mean keeping him through the entirety of next season and letting him walk for two first-rounders. No one has elevated Halladay over those other guys by a huge margin.
- dave_12