94 Responses to “Halladay Deserved Better”

1. 1.
   July 25th, 2009 at 12:56 am
   

   mike,

   i love halladay so much and it saddens me to think of losing him. it doesn’t make sense that roger’s cant open up the purse strings to bring in some more offence next year. why do you think roger’s refuses to spend some money and take a shot at it in 2010?

   MW: There’s no apostrophe. I don’t think it’s so much a refusal to spend money, I just think that when you have corporate ownership, it’s less likely to see a shot taken where the door is open to a potential loss of a lot of money. The shareholders don’t tend to like that.

   - jonathan
2. 2.
   July 25th, 2009 at 12:57 am
   

   my prediction of 90 losses is coming out nicely. I am the first and only person to make this prediction and you can congratulate me when it comes true. I will be happy to come on your show as well. the jays have to go 25-40 rest of the way to accomplish this goal and I think they can do it. when you have kevin millar batting cleanup you know your chances are good. I think the jays have given up on the season.

   of the last 7 jays wins, romero has 4 of them. good luck if he starts to slump

   MW: Why would it make you happy to have the team of which you’re allegedly a fan lose 90 games?

   - jacoby
3. 3.
   July 25th, 2009 at 12:58 am
   

   Mike. There is absolutely no way the attendance was less than 25,000. It looked like at minimum 33-4K. Also, I agree with you on the drunk ‘fan’ disorders. The amount of nonsense yelled at Wells and Rios was absolutely RIDICULOUS. Aren’t you supposed to come to the ballpark and cheer on your team? I know it’s been tough to do that lately (especially with this horrendous offense minus Lind/Hill) but are Rios and Wells really going to have to listen to that crap every home game for the next few years? I know you say that the psychological factor of the boos and what not shouldn’t affect professionals but considering how loaded it is lately I wouldn’t be surprised if Wells’ mental game has taken a serious hit.

   MW: It’s funny. The Jays have Wells for another five years after this, and it appears as though the fans are trying to destroy whatever shred of confidence/self-respect he has left, almost to ensure that Wells will be awful for the rest of his contract. I’m not saying he should be cheered for going 0-for-4, but it is getting ridiculous. The crowd looked bigger to me, too, but I can’t imagined the Jays would have fudged the number lower.

   - Renegade
4. 4.
   July 25th, 2009 at 1:32 am
   

   The organization, from the outset of the preseason (prior to the run the team went on in the early summer), has said that 2010 is really the big year, especially once Marcum and McGowan come back into the rotation. While McGowan may never be back, especially after his knee surgery, I don’t understand how the Jays can basically promote 2010 in spring training and then completely give up on it by trading Halladay. It makes no sense – nothing has really changed in the overall sense of things since Dunedin (except maybe we know that Rios and Wells will never be the lynchpins we thought they would be).

   MW: We don’t know that, we just know that they aren’t right now. But that might have had something to do with it, along with the fact that Travis Snider didn’t hit the ground running, B.J. Ryan blew up real good, McGowan’s future is in doubt and Jesse Litsch is out of the picture as well.

   - Aaron
5. 5.
   July 25th, 2009 at 1:35 am
   

   Unfortunately while JP has been strong at spotting talent and pulled off several gems during his tenure…….he hasn’t spent money well. It is hard not seeing a connection between millions being thrown at Wells, Thomas, Ryan and Rios and an apparent cut in payroll. JP may do a better job somewhere else…..but he has failed here in this job. Pitching injuries can’t be an excuse these guys going out there are doing pretty well. I hope there is a rational change soon he just seems wrong for this job. You probrably don’t agree

   MW: I don’t. I don’t see that he’s failed here. He’s built a very solid team – one that should have been great the last couple of years but wasn’t.

   - Jeff
6. 6.
   July 25th, 2009 at 1:37 am
   

   Chin up Mr. Wilner. Don’t let the nuts get to you.

   At the very least the negative comments, callers, and booers shows that they, in some small way, care about this team.

   There are a great many of us that appreciate this blog and take time commenting and really appreciate that you take the time to reply to our posts.

   If that’s the last we have seen of Doc as a Jay it was a pleasure to watch him work.

   If the Jays can get Drabek, Happ and Brown you have to do that deal don’t you?

   Thanks Mike

   Chris

   MW: I’m not as sold on Drabek as many others seem to be, but that’s a nice package. Brown could be a ways away – I want Michael Taylor, too.

   - Chris Thompson
7. 7.
   July 25th, 2009 at 1:42 am
   

   Jays’ again showed why they continue to lose. They are really struggling, exasperatingly so, in advancing runners on second with no outs. It happened a couple of times against Cleveland and happened again Friday night. Don’t like Cito’s managing style… never did …and by not having his team advancing the runner to third, either by bunt or preferably by hitting to the right side of the field, this team looks like a team with very little fundamentals. Thanks Cito. Alan Ashby commented during the broadcast how frustrated that he is about the same lack of execution.
   You commented on the post-game that the Jays’ biggest problem is that they need more hitters that walk. Totally disagree. This team’s biggest problem for the last two seasons have been the lack of hitting with runners in scoring position. Getting hitter who walk more would not cure this major affliction. The Jays’ need guys who can hit… not walk more. Overbay is Mr. Walk and he drives me crazy. He should be looking to drive the ball and drive in runs, not trying to work for a walk.
   Frankly, the Jays’ biggest problem has been the lack of production of Wells and Rios. Not because they don’t walk enough.

   MW: Sure because they don’t walk enough. It’s all part of the bigger picture. The more a hitter walks, the more disciplined he is, the more prone he is to grind out an at-bat and make a pitcher pay for a mistake. As much as Overbay frustrates you, he’s second on the team in OPS against righties, behind only Adam Lind. If the Jays had nine Lyle Overbays working against right-handed pitching, they’d be really, really good. Against lefties, not so much.

   - Kelly Pfeiffer
8. 8.
   July 25th, 2009 at 1:46 am
   

   Mike,

   In defense of the attendance (although I am not sure you will debate this).

   Even though Tampa Bay isn’t the same team now as they were in the previous 12 seasons, they are not a big draw.

   Interestingly enough, other teams don’t see the Jays as a big draw – they are 30th in the league in average road team attendance.

   Combine the 25th ranked Jays home attendance and the Rays 26th ranking in road attendance, on a Friday in the middle of a summer when many folks get out of the city – I would have not have expected any more.

   Your premise is that people should have been there because a) it’s Roy Halladay and b) it could be his last game.

   Well, a) I agree – if you appreciate great pitching, its a game to consider attending.

   With respect to b) we don’t know if it’s his last start or not – he is still a Blue Jay until the end of 2010, it looks like 50:50 if he leaves.

   Imagine the hoopla if it could have been his last start 6 weeks ago, and it kept getting pushed back and he was never traded. People who bought just because its one last chance would have felt ‘had’.

   Maybe I’m in the minority, but the flex pack of 7 home games for my dad and I are selected based on these factors – in this order:
   - Saturday game
   - date in schedule vs other life committments
   - quality of opponent/rivalry
   - opponent’s previous season win/loss result, etc.

   We obviously don’t know the rotation – tomorrow we have Brian Wolfe, which is fine by us. We like to see Doc pitch, but we are Blue Jays fans above any individual player and show up regardless.

   Yes, fans could buy a week or two ahead of time to schedule a game that has Doc starting, but people aren’t going to rearrange their schedules much to see a 500′ish team. They will with hockey, they might even with basketball, but not much of a chance for baseball.

   The population base you speak of is large, but changing. There are fewer kids at the games I attend – even the Jr Jays Saturdays don’t have as many kids as maybe 10 years ago. They play other sports, follow international leagues (eg. socer, etc).

   I agree with virtually everything you say, and in some ways I don’t fully understand where you are coming from on this whole attendance thing.

   You can feel secure in your job as there is enough baseball talk to sustain your station and shows- something that cannot be said for many of the regular Joes.

   Keep up the great work!
   Sorry for the novel

   MW: No problem. I understand your points, but all I was trying to say was that last night should have been an event. It was the only start that could have been Halladay’s last at home as a Jay if this trade happens. If he doesn’t get traded, then yes, we’ll go through it again next year. But this was one that should have had an enormous walk-up.

   - AK47
9. 9.
   July 25th, 2009 at 1:47 am
   

   Michael,

   Keith Law who is much smarter about these things than I, said on ESPN that he thinks the Jays are going to be pretty good next year and instead of unloading Halladay should consider going for it.

   He also said he’d try to unload Rios as it would clear salary and, unlike Wells, Rios, who would be more valuable in CF, wouldn’t be that hard to deal.

   Thoughts on either point?

   MW: I agree that Rios would be far easier to deal than Wells, no question. I also agree that with Halladay and the right couple of off-season moves, the Jays could be very good next year.

   - Uncle Ben
10. 10.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:59 am
    

    I haven’t commented in a while because i’ve been unable to watch most of the games due to work comittments and I feel I shouldn’t be commenting on a game I have not seen all the way through because thats ignorant, however I feel the need to comment on the situation right now.
    The Jays right now seem to be caught in the middle or like McCowan has put it paralysis and this I agree with. The team is just middling, what’s good is weighed out by what isn’t so good. Wells is a great player who is unable to live up to his contract, Rios has all the talent in the world but can get his head together and realize the talent, Hill and Lind show promise for the future, Overbay and the DH/LF spot bring that down (Overbay is good don’t get me wrong but on most teams he’d be a platoon player or bench player unless they had a lot of power bats at positions other than 1B) Rolen is solid addition to the team and puts a contender over the top with a elite glove and solid bat but on this team he goes to waste same with Scutaro. The pitching is great when it’s healthy but given recent events are all the rooks that show promise this year going to have their arms fall of next year. I realize they aren’t as good as they started out and the team is better than it is now…but that’s still middling. I don’t think this is the type team JP and Cito want to put on the field, I don’t know any GM who would. However like you said JP isn’t the worst GM out there nor is he the best, some moves pan out, others don’t. Seems pretty average to me. Rogers as an owner doesn’t force the budget really low like with the small market teams but they don’t spend to compete with the teams they have to beat to win. So average spending on the team, and of course average performance seems to be enough to keep average attendance, at least 50% capacity more often than not. It’s worked for the leafs for years, why go for more when this will do. Seems pretty the Jays are a team in the middle of the road that’s from top to bottom, to the average fan, settling for the same thing year after year. What I wonder is if above average Doc, leaves the average jays, and average attendance goes down, if the average fans finds they have an average income that doesn’t allow them to purchase merch. If the average man on the street cares more about Toronto FC than the Jays, and the bottom line hits rock bottom along with the diehard fan’s faith in the team. Will Rogers finally realize average isn’t enough? Meh I give it a 50/50 shot.

    - Smitty
11. 11.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:02 am
    

    I would like to say that I am pleased with what JP has done over his tenure in Toronto. There have been yearsidn’t have injury troubles w where if players played to potential, and if we de’d be contenders. All of his major trades and signings BJ, AJ, Molina, Glaus, Overbay, Hillenbrand, Thomas and the extensions to Wells and Rios, I feel were all good moves (at the time). However, not all turned out for the best which can’t be expected. With that being said I feel should go in another direction. Its time to start a new chapter, which will start with the naming of a permanent President and what I would assume would be a new general manager.

    JP has done a good job, but we didn’t accomplish our goal of making the playoffs. Hes had his chance its time to move on without him.

    - Greg
12. 12.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:12 am
    

    By my account, that is twice in the last three games the Jays had a man on second and no outs and couldn’t move him to third. That’s why this team is not very good and the Rays are better. The Rays find many ways to generate runs. The Jays offense is based mainly on a multi hit inning or the odd homerun.

    Walks, stolen bases, sacrifices, forcing fielding errors? I guess someone forget to tell these guys that these are all legitimate offensive tactics.

    MW: I didn’t know you could force a fielding error.

    - Steve
13. 13.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:19 am
    

    The truth of the matter regarding the GM is that JP is an excellent advanced scout, and thats what he should be. He has a great eye for identifying good prospects, namely pitchers..though his major league managerial decisions have been a trainwreck (ie giving franchise crppling contracts, which he promised not to do)

    MW: There’s only one crippling contract, which I believe J.P. wouldn’t have done if he’d been given his druthers, and regardless, he couldn’t have imagined that his payroll would be cut by 20%.

    - jp
14. 14.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:22 am
    

    I agree with you on the brutal disrespect of some fans. The booing and vitriol is getting out of hand and embarrassing. I’m disapointed, yes, feeling a bit like the Jays may not make the playoffs for a long time so long as they are in in the AL East – but come on people!

    I don’t care if Wells is make a trillion a year, does he really need to endure so much disgusting disrespect for not hitting a ball well enough? I don’t care if he makes too much money for his production, I hate this mentality that we as fans can say or do whatever we want and be pretty ugly whenever we want, etc…simly because we spend our money on the team.

    Halladay is a freaking genius of a pitcher a seems like a good guy, but is he really god while Wells/Rios, etc is a piece of crap? Let’s all get some perpective here. And shouldn’t we be having at least a little fun at the ballpark rather than begging for the next bad play so we can boo and pat ourselves on the back?

    Anyway, I’m in the minority that thinks they should trade Halladay – at least if they get something like Drabek, Taylor and a couple of other decent prospects at least. I think it could bode well for the future, even if the Jays being the AL east is making me wonder if it makes any difference anyway.

    Not sure if I agree or disagree on the attendance thing, but I’ll save that for another time. As for JP, no matter what one thinks of this or that about him, I don’t see how anyone can look at his work and think he is the worst GM – how can a person plausibly deny that he has done at least some good things and brought in a fair amount of talent?

    Thanks Mike, keep up the good work.

    - Darren
15. 15.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:30 am
    

    Michael of the Ballyard:

    I wholeheartedly agree with your indictment of the fans who didn’t show up. I couldn’t make it because I went to cover an IBL game — and missing this one made me heartsick, let me say that much — but I’ve been to a lot more games this season than any previous one, so hopefully that (sort of) makes up for it.

    Anyways, I have to vehemently disagree with your indictment of the fans who booed. The guy who booed Downs, yeah, sounds like a major word-I-can’t-post-here, but you’re really going to jump on someone for screaming ‘you suck!’ at Vernon Wells for striking out, looking hideous in doing so, during a season in which he has in fact sucked?

    Maybe it’s been a while since you sat in those seats, but I can only guess that you haven’t sat in the seats in Boston, New York or Philly if you’re going to indict that kind of behaviour. Wells would probably, with only a little bit of hyperbole on my end, need a full time personal body guard with the way he has been playing if he happened to play in one of the markets that would have brought out a huge send-off crowd tonight.

    MW: I have never seen anything like sweater-vest going off on a member of the home team the way he did. I couldn’t believe it. What’s to be gained by that? Wells has sucked at home this year, but he doesn’t suck.

    - Kevin D
16. 16.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:50 am
    

    Hey Mike,

    I’ve followed your blog basically since it began and I can’t believe that you have been as patient as you have with the comments. We could sum them up pretty much as FIRE JP!, Overbay/Wells/Rios suck. I actually skip comments now and just read your responses.

    Just a couple of light hearted questions for you to keep your mood up.

    1. Just thinking about how good Romero has been this year and I was wondering which Blue Jay impressed you the most during their rookie year?

    2. After THE catch I looked up Dewayne Wise’s stats and saw that he only has made 3 errors in his career! The thing is I don’t think that really explains why he is good enough to make that catch. I never really know how to evaluate a player’s fielding. What metric, if any, do you like to look at to evaluate fielding and why?

    MW: 1 – Probably Roy Halladay, but that was really the year before his rookie year. 2 – I don’t really love any defensive metric, but my favourite at the moment is defensive plus/minus.

    - Aaron - from Hamilton
17. 17.
    July 25th, 2009 at 3:18 am
    

    I think this team is in a very interesting position. They could sell off half the team before the deadline this year and try to rebuild. Or they could go out this winter and do some good things I think that 2010 could still be a great year for the Jays.

    If the Jays could bring in a solid bat to take pressure/attention away from Wells I think/hope it would help his game. If we could bring in an “Aubrey Huff” (who is a FA after this year?) not only would the Jays get his bat but would (hopefully) get Vernon’s bat back as well.

    I don’t think we need help with our bullpen, when pitchers come back from injury next year we will be adding two solid arms to the bullpen in Tallet and Janssen.

    Really I think that’s all they need to give them a chance to contend next year. However if they are for sure going to contend they are probably going to want to pick up a solid pitcher to add to the rotation. Someone like Lee or Lackey.

    The Jays only need a couple of pieces to their puzzle for them to contend next year. The big problem standing in the way on contending is money and it doesn’t seem like the bean counters want to spare the beans to help this team contend.

    The bean counters seem content with the limbo we find ourselves in, a limbo in which we can field a team that can be fun to watch but at the end of the season will be 10 games back of a playoff spot.

    At the very least I would enjoy a playoff race.

    - Kevin
18. 18.
    July 25th, 2009 at 3:26 am
    

    Mike I’ve gone back and forth on the Doc trade issue myself, and Ive decided that with the way GM’s seem to overvalue their prospects, that in all likelihood, the jays be better off dealing doc at the deadline next year instead of this year…although i thought the reverse of this until today.

    here is why i think this…you are just not going to get more than one stud prospect from an organization….(you could luck out and a level II prospect ends up being an allstar..thats not what im referring to). look at even the best reported phillies deal..drabek, donald, marson, maybe happ, taylor, brown..its more quantity than quality based on reviewing baseball america and baseball prospectus analysis of these guys.

    i think you are better off getting one stud prospect than doing the numbers thing. and thats where dealing him next year comes in.

    you keep doc, you see if you can make a run next year..if you are in it…you keep him and go for it..if not..you deal him to whomever and you will likely get the same top player from them next year that you would this year. (less the ballast that likely wont pan out anyway)

    Look at what the A’s got for Holliday? They got a solid prospect top level prospect in Wallace for a guy who is going to be a free agent at the end of this year! This is the same Wallace that was to be the centerpiece of any possible deal with the Jays for Doc.

    In essence, Billy Beane, it seems, has signed Holliday for the express purposes of getting a top level prospect for him come trade deadline!

    just my opinion, but in trading doc now, other than some cost savings, you really arent going to get much more than you would next year..i seriously dont think you will, and i think that JP realizes this and will Doc will end up in a Jays uniform for at least the first half 2010

    MW: I think Ricciardi is trying hard to make a big deal for Halladay now, but like you, I vacillate on what I think will happen on a regular basis. I think, though, that if you get a quality prospect or two with a bit of quantity around him, you give yourself a better shot of having a couple of them work out.

    - General Zod
19. 19.
    July 25th, 2009 at 3:40 am
    

    hey mike, you said that the jays dont walk enough. texas doesn’t walk either. they are 12th in obp yet they dont have a problem scoring runs. why is that? if the jays walked more all that would happen is they would strand more runners in scoring position.

    MW: The Rangers have scored fewer runs than the Blue Jays have. Other than that, good point.

    - suzuki
20. 20.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:27 am
    

    Can you step back from the bubble baseball life you live in Mike and think from a fan’s perspective. RARLEY and I mean RARELY will any fan in any city support a team that’s out of playoff contention by mid-season. Im a struggling college student drowning in debt, yet somehow I found a way to pay $100 for a ticket o the jay/yanks game in may when we were in first place. Fans support winners. Just b/c your paid to watch meaningless games in the dog days of summer doesn’t mean were gonna pay and watch these useless games being played out.

    MW: You might not be struggling in college if you knew the difference between “your” and “you’re”. Sorry, it was just sitting there, I couldn’t help myself. Seriously, though, you’re missing my point. I’m not talking about the attendance in general (though I don’t get that, either), I’m just talking about the failure to show up for the event – the potential last start in Roy Halladay’s Blue Jays career.

    - Nitin
21. 21.
    July 25th, 2009 at 5:21 am
    

    Mike, it’s an interesting time, for sure. I don’t always agree with everything you say, but I do agree with your sentiments on the constant negativity; Wells, Rios, Ricciardi, blah, blah, blah. The negativity makes me want to turn off my radio, and bypass the comments section in this blog.

    I am also saddened by your anecdote about the Downs heckler. These types of things make me feel like “Toronto sports fans” are bad, and I resent the reputation, because I am a Jays fan (can’t remember a breathing moment when I wasn’t), and I’m basically doomed to be viewed the same way as these louts.

    MW: You and the commenter above both mentioned that you bypass the comments section, which is another reason I’m thinking about no longer replying.

    - Dave M
22. 22.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:06 am
    

    Hello Mike,

    wow, sounds like you are getting pretty frustrated. Don’t let the commenters get you down too much! If it makes you feel any better, I still think you have my dream job (other than playing 2nd base for the Jays) and would trade with you anytime you ask!
    I agree that they should go for it in 2010. I don’t think they are that far away, really. It may be somewhat difficult to accomplish, but they just need a couple of more hitters. The current weak spots are the outfield, catcher and first base (sorry, Overbay and his high OBP doesn’t do it for me. It is possible to have a high OBP and drive in runs (who needs a walk when a runner is on third?), especially at this position). If they can trade Overbay and Rios (or Wells, not that that is very likely), even just in a salary dump, they may be able to sign/trade for some better hitters at the spots I just mentioned.
    These are not new revelations, but just what I think might work.

    JP has done a great job with the young pitching, but it may be time to trade some of it for good hitters! I know it may not work out (with all the pitching injuries), but at least they can say that they tried. Various aspects of offence have been a problem for this team for some time, and it seems to me they have done very little to address them.

    In your opinion, Mike, outside of Snider, who are the Jays’ best and closest hitting prospects?

    Thanks!

    MW: You’d trade jobs anytime? What do you do? ;-) It’s a good question about the best and closest hitting prospects. Brian Dopirak might be the best and closest right now, and all the ones who were supposed be almost ready are struggling now, like J.P. Arencibia, Scott Campbell and Brad Emaus.

    - Rory
23. 23.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:24 am
    

    Hi Mike, I was glad to be at the game last night. Yes, Roy Halladay is a class act. I agree with you about thinking more people would come out to support him and the Jays. It is embarrasing to be a Jays fan the way other “fans” boo Rios and Wells.
    I hope Doc stays.
    Liz

    - Liz
24. 24.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:41 am
    

    One thing the Halliday adventure has opened up is a lot of concern for the Blue Jays. A lot of “fans” weighing in on the issue — many of whom who have no clue as the vagaries of the GM’s office.

    I am not a “fan” of JP — I usually don’t get all hyped up on GMs. But, like you say Mike, he has made some good deals and some bad ones. Just like every other GM in the business. We are dealing with ballplayers who are human beings — we think somehow that it is easy — you can just turn it on or off — to hit a 94mph fastball with a round piece of lumber. To think that Rios or Wells don’t give a #$%# when they strike out or hit a lame ground ball to first base …. that they are just here to collect a fat salary ….. I remember when Rocky Colavito had his good years and his bad years… It happens in baseball.

    I think that if there is anything wrong here it is that the Jays listen too much to the media. Would they have signed Wells to the fat contact — the media at the time was pushing it as disaster time if they signing did not occur?

    If the Jays can get quality from a trade and they are unable to ante up 20-25 mil per year for a new contract — then they have to do it — and not “pull a Burnett.”

    The media has hated JP from the moment he got here. Unfortunately, JP has an “eastern US” voice and approach to things — which turns many Canadians off. The approach gives one the impression of superiority ….
    and we don’t like that…. Quite different than the “diffidence” of Pat Gillick.

    I have listened to JP on Wednesdays — and, frankly, of any other GM’s we have had — he has been the BEST at communicating to fans.

    Gillick has been immortalized as the greatest GM in history [not just Jay history] — but for all the moves he made in the early 90′s to win those World Series — he left the cupboard bare as far as future Blue Jay stars were concerned…..

    This is a time of great opportunity for the Jays — to build a future all true fans can look forward to.

    - Gary R
25. 25.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:43 am
    

    Hey Mike,

    I for one am not surprised that Jays fan are surly and frustrated., and that a small crowd showed up… hell, even the Drunks didn’t know if they were going to show up. This goes beyond the Doc trade which is a just grand summation of the last 8 years. I don’t think the lack of support last night is an indictment of the Toronto sport fan at all, but an indictment of the management of this team, and a display the fan’s frustration with the team. We fans have been sold a bill of goods for the past few years that has never come to fruition. Even this year, we were told that this season was a bridge to 2010 when the team would have a serious chance to contend. We as fans saw all the injurie,s accepted this, and looked forward to 2010 as the year. Now that the Jays are looking to trade Halladay (and let’s not kid ourselves here – if they didn’t want to move him they wouldn’t have put it out there so publicly… and continued to do so), they’re essentially throwing in the towel on 2010. And even if that’s not entirely true, that’s exactly how it’s being perceived in the fan base, and at the end of the day that’s all that matters with fans – perception. You can debate that all you want, but in speaking with every Jays fan I know (young or old), that’s exactly the conversation. Look at the frustration and anger in the comments of your own blog… that’s not just people who come here or call in to your show Mike, that’s out there on the street.

    The same can be said for the Jay’s GM. Regardless of how good he is or isn’t, his reputation in Toronto is ruined and needs to be shipped out. Fans have spoken (the “Trade JP” chants last night should say something), and they’ve lost all faith in the man and his ability to manage the team. And, how can you blame them? Managing is much more than simply evaluating young talent. Take these two quotes attributed to JP from Jordan Bastian (and independently reported elsewhere). Remember that these were from consecutive days:

    “Halladay has given the Jays a list of teams he’d be willing to approve a trade to” – July 23rd

    “[Halladay] hasn’t given us a list of teams. ” – July 24th

    Thank goodness Beeston has put an end to all the talk.

    I guess the bottom line is this: the fans are angry, the fans are frustrated and have no idea what the direction of this team is. Are they rebuilding? Are they still going to push for 2010? How can they do that without Halladay? How can you blame fans for not coming out? I have been to 11 games this year, and have tickets to two more games. I’ll probably make those my last 2 of the year all things considered.

    Hopefully at some point we can all figure where this thing is headed.

    Thanks for letting me rant.

    MW: The fans haven’t been sold a bill of goods, I don’t think. It’s impossible to promise a contender, you can just hope that what you’ve done will work out, and for the Blue Jays in 2007 and 2008, it didn’t. Halladay said yesterday that he had in fact had discussions with the team about where he might and might not be willing to go, though there probably wasn’t an actual list given. As far as the whole “fans have lost faith” thing, and I’m repeating myself, when you listen to the fans, you get stuff like Vernon Wells signing a seven year $126 million deal that everyone now thinks could be the worst in baseball.

    - Kevin
26. 26.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:49 am
    

    MW: Sure. You’re completely wrong on almost everything here. First off, I never heard that Carlos Delgado was willing to stay for $9 million per season, and even if he did, the Jays offer was for two years at $12 million. A slap in the face, to be sure, but part and parcel of what was a $50 million payroll at the time. This $1 million conspiracy theory holds as much water as the notion that the Mets rejected an offer the Jays made earlier in the week. Both are completely untrue. You’ll also have to explain how “arrogance” forced Ricciardi into a position where he would have to answer a reporter’s question.

    Mike….
    First of all the offer wasn’t $12 million per year for 2 years. It was $12 million OVER 2 years ($6 million per year….you’re wrong) I was off by 2 mill…my bad but this offer is even more pathetic.

    And as far as the “notion” that the mets rejected an offer the Jays made (you said I was “completely wrong” about this)…….

    “Report: Mets reject Halladay offer
    Tuesday, July 21, 2009

    SPORTSNET.CA

    The Toronto Blue Jays made an offer to the New York Mets they apparently could refuse.

    According to a report on SI.com, Toronto asked for a package of prospects — outfielder Fernando Martinez, young pitchers Bobby Parnell and Jon Niese and shortstop Ruben Tejada — from New York in exchange for forRoy Halladay, who has been on the market as he heads into the final year of his deal with the Blue Jays.

    The Mets said no, and it’s not believed their continuing to discuss a trade with Toronto.

    Over the weekend, Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi said the likelihood of trading their ace was “50-50.”

    -this article was a Rogers Sportsnet article…….you work for Roger’s too right? I thought you said this was “completely untrue” I guess you didn’t get the memo.

    -here more of the same…

    http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=644046

    http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/7/21/956397/halladay-applesauce-mets-reject

    http://blogs.mycentraljersey.com/mets/2009/07/20/mets-turn-down-trade-offer-for-halladay/

    http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/mlb_trade_talk/posts/70781-jays-asking-price-for-halladay-too-steep-for-mets

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090720221717AAwBdlC

    J.P.’s arrogance…. Just listen to him talk. I’m sure others agree.

    MW: You misunderstood, or maybe I wasn’t clear – I meant that the offer was $12 million for two years (which is what I wrote), not $12 million per year for two years. As for all those links, they all point back to the same report on si.com which was completely untrue. Just because a whole bunch of different places jump on the same bad report doesn’t make that report any less bad.

    - RealityCheck
27. 27.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:53 am
    

    Hi Mike. I can’t believe the number of times I have to hear how Toronto isn’t a baseball city. Really? 4 million in attendance from 89-94, and if skydome had been built in 81 it would have been 4 million from then. You see, Mike, us non baseball Toronto fans saw the plan developing from ’81 and reaped the rewards of that plan by playing meaningful September games and then ultimately winning back to back World Series. The strike in ’94 hurt attendance, for sure, but lack of a plan and being out of contention the last 16 years has hurt more. You continue to back JP, which is your perogative, but 8 years in pro sports is like a lifetime, as the average player only plays 6 years. If you thought that Halladay would say anything bad about JP or the Blue Jays during his presser, you aren’t paying attention. This is one of the finest upstanding athletes Toronto has ever known. Roy knows that by playing his career in Toronto, his family has been looked after. He would never say a negative word about this franchise. So please don’t use his words to defend your case for JP. We all knew before he spoke that he would never throw any of them under the bus. I thought Beeston’s comment was more telling, that he will not be talking about dealing Halladay from this day forward. In other words, please shut up JP, you have a big mouth and don’t know when to stop. Also, your Carlos Pena anecdote, while amusing, was just not fact. They reassigned him, not released him, because he had a poor spring.

    MW: So you’re saying Halladay would lie in order to be nice? As for the Pena thing, I’ve checked with the Rays’ staff and your story is right – they had signed him to a minor-league contract and he hadn’t made the team so he wasn’t released, only reassigned. Doesn’t change the outcome, though.

    - dave
28. 28.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:57 am
    

    i took off early from work (which in the restaurant industry is no small task for a friday) and drove all the way from stratford to see this game. bizarre that out of the millions of people in the area, less than 25,000 made the effort for what was potentially the last ‘big’ game we’ll see this year. an explanation could be the high level of d**** in the seats. heckling is fine, but incessant, non-intelligible yelling is annoying and pointless. seems more and more common at games, unfortunately. bored hockey fans?

    MW: Could be. Alan Ashby mentioned during the game today (Saturday) that some people come out just simply to boo. There were even people booing when the Jays were up 8-0.

    - tim
29. 29.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:08 am
    

    MW: “You’ll also have to explain how “arrogance” forced Ricciardi into a position where he would have to answer a reporter’s question.”

    J.P.’s arrogance kept him from keeping his mouth shut about Halladay’s unwillingness to sign an extention. It bothered him that the reporters kept calling him out for changing his tune about the team’s willingness to trade him so instead of letting the reporters pick on him, he spilled the beans to save face and in turn jeopardized his potential returns on trading the best player on the team.

    We shouldn’t be surprised that the stadium was so empty for Doc’s possible final game as a Jay. We know that historically Toronto fans won’t show up unless the Jays are winning. Toronto fans tend to be “Jays” fans not “baseball” fans. Case in point……World Baseball Classic at Rogers centre this year. I went to both USA vs Venezuela games. Looking at the two team rosters it occurred to me that apart from the All-Star game in’91, there has never been this much talent on one field EVER in this entire country and the stadium was nearly empty. I sat more or less where ever I wanted…….

    MW: But that game didn’t have a home team, it’s kind of understandable since, as you say, there aren’t a lot of baseball fans in this city. J.P.’s arrogance, you say, led him to tell the truth about what’s going on. Interesting.

    - RealityCheck
30. 30.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:09 am
    

    Mike, you sound totally frustrated and who can blame you! I could not agree more with what you have written in your blog. Your not alone in your thoughts for sure.

    I was at the game last night again with thoughts of how this might be the Docs’ final game at home as a Jay. I kept looking around the stands waiting to see the place fill up! Not surprised at all as to the attendance but most certainly embarrassed and absolutely dissapointed.

    Even my buddy from Bean Town, a loyal Red Sox fan, stuck around town a couple of extra days just to see Doc pitch and to see if he could do to the Rays what he did to the Red Sox, and of course, he did!

    How is it a team like the Leafs – “perennial losers” can attract more positive fan and media attention than a team like the Jays? A team who, despite not being in any recent pennant races have had winning records and some premo athletes over the last few seasons. A Jays game provides tons of excitement and is for certain an inexpensive form of entertainment for a great family night out.

    We were surrounded by so called fans who it seemed like they paid their way, not to enjoy the game but just to shout obscenities toward Vernon Wells, Alex Rios and Lyle Overbay! Yelling out as loud as they could to fire or trade JP – it was disgustingly pathetic and a real downer to say the least.

    That “preppy looking” guy you mentioned Mike, may very well have been the guy we told to sit down, shut up or hit the exits. Wearing a blue sweater vest with a white T-shirt under it – real class. The group this guy was with, were not there to cheer or show Doc any kind of appreciation, but rather to “jeer” all game long at the afore mentioned. Oh yea, real fans – we had to remind them it was Halladay not Holliday when it came to them mentioning his name.

    Believe me it could have gotten very ugly in our area had these idiots not finally toned it down. Worst experience (other than empty seats at other games) I have had attending a game in Toronto.

    Get it right people, other than, and in some case despite the salary there are I am sure a few teams that would glady have a Wells or Rios on their roster. Just knowing their capabilities and what a change of venue could do for them.

    Can’t blame you one bit Mike as to not responding to anymore comments. I don’t know how you have managed as long as you have. Not often do I see a response from you to comments I leave and I am fine with that. I comment here on your blog subject or the game out of appreciation at the opportunity to do so. If you were to never respond to any further comments left by anyone it would not change as to me putting in my 2 cents worth!

    Hey, I only comment here but I also am sick and tired of reading and hearing the negative crap! In particular when it comes to the Jays GM. JP has done an excellent job here in Toronto. His talk of a 5 year plan (that many have mentioned but I never heard of) did work out as to him doing his part. He put some great players on the field for the Jays – their lack of performance at different times or injuries played the biggest part in the last couple of seasons as to them not contending, not JP! Nevertheless, the Jays have been fantastic entertainment.

    Quick question for you Jays GM/JP bashers – how long has it been since a Leafs GM put out a winner – oh yea, 1967 wasn’t it!

    I have a wish list…..

    I wish the so called fans of the Jays would show up at the Dome!

    I wish they would enjoy the game, appreciate the players individual skills and plays that are made and not just the outcome of the game.

    I wish some of those who show up to a game or comment here or on the post game show would relate their comments to the game and not belittle themselves by showing their ignorance towards it and/or the players and managment.

    I wish some of you so called fans would learn the difference between “dollars and sense”!

    For some, not all, the old saying of “You don’t know what you had or how good you had it – until it’s gone” fits in here nicely! With respect to, no more responses to your comments from our blog host, with respect to Roy Halladay and maybe one day “your Toronto Blue Jays”.

    Responses or not Mike, you will still have a #1 basbeball blog. Keep up the great work you do!

    Thank you.

    MW: I don’t usually respond to your comments because usually I don’t have anything to which to respond or add. The sweater-vest guy I saw was a different one.

    - Bob from Burlington
31. 31.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:28 am
    

    Sadly, Mike, that’s exactly what the crowd has been like down at the dome – not just this season, though it has definitely gotten worse, but for the last few seasons.

    Oddly enough, our section last night was generally awesome – sitting in the left field lower outfield seats on a Friday night (Doc start or no) usually means drunken idiots making fools out of themselves and causing trouble – just a few weeks ago, people in the stands were getting heckled for supporting the team. It was even worse when B.J. was still in the bullpen.

    Anyway, last night, they cheered for the team, they booed the umps and not so much the team, though there was definitely a bit of grumbling in the 10th, and the heckling of the left fielder wasn’t nearly as obnoxious as it usually is.

    I find myself getting asked on a regular basis now, “How can you still support this team?” It’s depressing, really.

    MW: Just answer that they’re way better than the Leafs, Raptors, Argos or FC.

    - erin
32. 32.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:39 am
    

    For the first time in almost 20 years, I attended a Blue Jays game. My son and I were fortunate to have witnessed the performance by Halladay last night, and both of us were disappointed in the size of the crowd.
    I do believe that there is a malaise that has set in for the Blue Jays nation, with people voting with their feet, and, your protestations aside, that the dismissal of Ricciardi at the end of the season will be the beginning of the reshaping of the organization. Seven years is a lifetime + for a GM in any sport, and J.P.’s expiry date is well past. His contractual decisions concerning Frank Thomas and B. J. Ryan and the sub par performances of Wells and Rios obscure the better moves he has made, such as the acquisition of Scutaro and the drafting and development of the young pitchers. His poor relationships with some of the local print media and their scathing yet unsubstantiated editorializing serve only to fan the flames of the fans who now feel marginalized.
    That being said, in my opinion it is in the Blue Jays best interest to explore and ulitimately consummate a deal, if available, that could add substantial players for the future. His trade value will never be higher than it is now, and 2 1st round picks in 2010 upon his free agency can not match the value they can get now.
    Finally, I don’t agree with you very often, but I agree with you on this point. The Jays, Orioles and Rays start each season at a significant disadvantage compared to the rest of the major leagues. Therefore, I believe it is time to strip this organization to the developmental essentials and start over with a new G. M. in 2010.

    MW: I’ve heard what you’re saying before – that seven or eight years is a lifetime for a G.M, in any sport. Pat Gillick was the Blue Jays’ G.M. for 17 years, and they didn’t win a World Series until his 14th. I don’t get how your last two sentences work together, either.

    - Bob
33. 33.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:52 am
    

    Mike, I like your show (maybe more than the blog). I was going to call last night. I respect your views on baseball quite a lot and obviously you know a lot more than me and most of your callers and correspondents re baseball. At the very least, you always seem very prepared and I appreciate that a lot.

    But I disagree strenuously wrt to Ricciardi. He may well have made some shrewd moves, and I see that the talent that has come up, particularly pitchers, in recent years is great. I also heard Halladay last night and he too sees a foundation. But two things. First, when Ricciardi came here, he was all about the whiz kid, smarter than everyone else, the different way of doing things, money ball, on base percentage, working the count. What happened to that? As you said, this team needs guys who walk. Where are they? Now you could say he can only do so much as a GM. But to me, if you cut through J.P.’s arrogant I-know-more-than-everyone bluster, his philosophy in building the team has been inconsistent and it is not only because the budget has changed. This speaks to the second point which is Ricciardi has no class. None. You defend him consistently, but you never seem to talk about the non-baseball part of the job which is is being a face of the franchise with the media and with the fans. He is arrogant, dismissive, aggressive, boorish and an embarrassment. I have never liked this guy, but what he did this week was just pathetic. By saying the issue was that Doc wanted to explore free agency, that shows no class and it shows J.P. trying to save his own sorry a** even at the expense of the best and most gentlemanly player on the team. Even if the statement is true (Doc distanced himself from “those exact words” last night), and I do not doubt they are in large part true, J.P. should not have said that. He should shut his Grand Canyon of a mouth and got on with his job. A GM is more than a scout, a GM is more than a player personnel expert, and a GM is more than a bean counter. A GM is also one of the most important faces of the organization and this guy is not someone I would have represent my organization for a single day. You heard the class from Halladay last night in his scrum. Where is that from J.P.? He is, quite simply, a clown. He should be a scout or a player personnel guy, not a GM. The sooner they can him, the better.

    BTW, I was there last night, it was electric, the numbers were not that impressive, but I think you have to give the fans a break. This team is VERY disappointing and we are not all Mike Wilner, we don’t all live and breathe baseball, nor can we afford to. Sure, they overachieved and got our hopes up earlier this year, but they have underachieved for longer and people want to see a team that can compete.

    Keep up the good work Mike. I really don’t agree on Ricciardi, but I usually listen to you and read your blog and find myself nodding. even when I don’t, I do appreciate your efforts to “raise the level of discourse”.

    Scott

    MW: Go back and re-read the blog post to which you’re commenting.

    - Scott
34. 34.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:53 am
    

    Hi Mike,
    I’m glad I had a chance to say hello last night and thank you for the effort you put in the blog…you really deserve it.

    Your post is right on the money in so many ways.

    I guess following the Jays from overseas via this blog and other sources makes you think that there’s a lot of Jays fans out there. Obviously not. The attendance last night was truly embarassing. I really expected it to be packed. It must make the players, GM and owners shake their heads.

    I bought a ticket 3 rows up on the 500 level behind home plate for $11. I had a hot dog outside for $4 and bought a program for $5. $20 for a night out…is this not unbelievable value for money? And you’re allowed to roam the stadium at will unlike most ballparks.

    The naivety (sp?) of the fans is also embarassing. The heckling and comments are immature and ignorant. The pizza thing is cringeworthy. I dunno, we’ve had a team for 32 years…can baseball fans still be this pathetic?

    After I saw you I made a beeline for the Jays bullpen because I thought it would be packed with people watching Roy warm up. Nope. Just kids trying to catch balls and when BP was over they all left. There was about 3 people there to applaud Roy when he came into the bullpen and while it filled up a bit, I still found it pathetic.

    I actually think that half the people in the stands didn’t have a clue of the significance of the game when they got there.

    As for JP, he looked relaxed on the field before the game and it was nice to see him interact with his son. I had a good chat with the guy in the seat next to me and we basically concluded that JP has been unbelievably UNLUCKY. He did absolutely the right thing in signing Wells and Rios and can hardly be blamed for many of the other underperforming players. People forget he had the foresight to try and trade Rios for Lincecum and almost pulled it off.

    I hate to say this, but the whole experience last night sort of soured on going to a game again this visit. I still will, but the attendance and fans frustrate me too much. Maybe this is why a lot of hard core fans don’t go anymore. It’s better to watch on TV and not listen to the morons.

    Finally….a question. I knew Roy had thrown a lot of pitches, but I was really hoping that Cito would have sent him out for at least 1 batter in the 10th. If he had been taken out for a reliever, that would have been a defining moment for the fans to truly give him a proper send off.

    Why do you think he didn’t do this?

    thanks Mike

    MW: I really don’t know why he didn’t. Maybe it’s because he believes that Halladay won’t be traded. I think if it were up to me, I would probably have sent Halladay out to warm up for the 10th and then taken him out so that the fans would have had a chance to really salute him.

    - OzRob
35. 35.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:57 am
    

    I think if the jays are going to spend another season in 3rd or 4th, hanging around .500, JP will be harshly criticized for not getting anything back when Halladay walks away. You can tell by Roy’s face that winning is so important to him, and who would fault him for testing the market. Much like getting nothing for Delgado (blame unfairly projected on Carlos himself for staying). I just think JP is in a no win situation.

    Shame on those specific fans, poor Vernon/Alex (not sarcastic) but no shame on toronto. $9 seat isn’t very good. Every fly ball looks like a homer. Next price point-$25 for second deck outfield??? Have you ever sat there Mike? And we all know that you end up spending at least your ticket price on $4 apple juice and $10 beers. Put people in the stands with good seats at realistic prices.

    MW: I haven’t sat in second deck outfield, but I have sat in the 500 level and in the 100-level outfield. Those 200-level outfield seats are $22, by the way. And still, even those seats are cheaper than the cheapest seat at a Leaf game.

    - Ken
36. 36.
    July 25th, 2009 at 10:02 am
    

    Mike. I couldn’t with you 100% more. I was at the game just in case it was Roy’s final home start. There should have been 30,000 in the park at the very least. That’s very disappointing to me as a loyal and true Jays fan.

    Driving home last night, a caller on Roger Lajoie’s show referred to J.P’s “5-year plan”. To my knowledge he never said he had a 5-year plan. Am I right or wrong in that assessment? Thanks.

    Peter, St.Catharines.

    MW: You’re right, but there have been enough media reports pointing to it that many people believe it.

    - Peter
37. 37.
    July 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am
    

    People tell Rogers to raise the payroll, yet they’re already losing millions on baseball at the current payroll. Ted Rogers bought the Jays to save them from leaving Toronto when nobody else stepped up. As a goodwill gesture. And he absorbed millions in losses in the process.
    If the pressure keeps up to spend spend spend, along with the negatvie press. you’ll see the for sale sign up on this franchise. If its not already. And what happens after that is anybody’s guess.

    - Rick Grace
38. 38.
    July 25th, 2009 at 10:42 am
    

    Hey Mike,

    I’m afraid that I believe the Jays have missed the boat in their current situation. They claim that the economy is tough and are now looking to shed payroll. Have they not taken into consideration that both the Raptors and Leafs haven’t made the playoffs in years and that their window of opportunity is now? If both the Raptors and Leafs begin making the playoffs, I believe the Jays attendance will drop even further. Why not pursue top players who are available and create a buzz that could increase interest in the team?

    MW: See above, I guess.

    - Jon
39. 39.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:01 am
    

    Mike, You state you are sick and tired of the fans’negativity and b.s.
    Don’t you realize that if they didn’t vent, you would not be on the air.
    Would you rather have complacency and no one give a damn.
    The fans you complain about are the real fans,who care about the team ,who live and die with every great play and subsequent screw up.
    They need to vent and you are their outlet.
    I do not condone fans screaming in players’faces, but they are FRUSTRATED. Would you rather they left the park,without getting it off their chests,and take it out in a worse way.
    If Wells doesn’t like it, let him give back the money he is earning,which we all pay for one way or another.

    MW: You’re saying that screaming at Wells at Rios prevents people from leaving the stadium and beating up random strangers, or worse? Interesting. I’ve been on the air for eight years, and the negativity and b.s. has never been as bad as it is right now. A post-game call-in isn’t supposed to be all about venting and ranting and drawing erroneous conclusions based on incorrect information. It’s supposed to be about reasoned, intelligent discussion of the game just completed and of the home team, with the occasional crackpot caller thrown in. My show is the reverse of that.

    - DANNY
40. 40.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:02 am
    

    Hello Mike……You would have to believe Doc will get traded …………Doc could have pitched the 10th inning last night….but was probaly taken out to protect him from possible injury….if the Jays deal with the Phillies and get Michael Taylor he could be major league ready for next year ………..hopefully the Jays sign Scutaro so they will not ask for Jason Arnold in the Halladay deal….I would take Dominic Brown or Carrasco over Donald………MIke would you trade Arencibia,Purcey and possibly Castro for Victor Martinez…..

    MW: For a year and a half of Vic? I wouldn’t think you’d have to give up that much. If Halladay was taken out after nine to protect him from injury, why wouldn’t he have been taken out after six or seven?

    - Mark from Thorold
41. 41.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:07 am
    

    Mike,

    When do you think it will be time to possibly move Aaron Hill down in the lineup to the three or four spot? Maybe just shift him and Lind down a spot each and insert Inglett into the two hole (sorta like last season). Of course we’d have to wait and see how Inglett is hitting as he hasn’t been great at this level.

    MW: I don’t think Hill should hit third or fourth. I’d move him to fifth.

    - Alex
42. 42.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:11 am
    

    You’re right that Halladay deserved better – again.

    He’d have about 15 wins and another Cy Young in his back pocket if we could offer him a bit more timely hitting.

    He remains gracious in all circumstances.

    Can you imagine Dave Stieb in a year like this; daggers everywhere. Sticking with the throwbacks, remember when Jack Morris was here and won 20 games with a mid 4 ERA? Some guys just attract run support.

    Mike, your frustration is really coming through in this blog and I don’t blame you a bit. It comes from fans not content to just enjoy baseball in this town without any hope for real contention.

    People still want winner that’s unfortunately not coming any year soon.

    MW: I guess we disagree on the definition of “fans”.

    - Gary
43. 43.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:31 am
    

    MW: There’s no excuse for not showing up, especially given the fact that there’s such a huge population base from which to draw.”

    I am a huge Blue Jays fan, but even I must completely disagree with this statement. If someone wants to go to an event, whether it be sport or other, they will go, if they do not want to go (whatever their reason may be) then they won’t. Whether you, I, or anyone else think more people “should” go is completely irrelevant to how other people should feel. Yes, the ACC is sold out every game for the Leafs (at much more expensive ticket prices) but you are missing two very important things here, 1) the Leafs play hockey and 2) we live in Canada. I completely agree that it is too bad that their was not a bigger crowd for Halladay’s potential last start, but sports are meant as a form of leisure and relaxation, not something you HAVE to attend or something you should be made to feel badly if you don’t, so to suggest otherwise s kind of off base.

    MW: We’ll have to agree to disagree.

    - Kyle S.
44. 44.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am
    

    Mike…A big event like tonite’s game doesn’t always add up to attendance. The old lines always go that Roger Clemens, Doug Flutie (Two of the more dominant players of their respective sports,regardless of Clemens’ steroid actions) never brought in people, so it shouldn’t be a surprise or downer, that the attendance was what it was. Ted Williams’ last game as a Red Sox drew 10,000 at Fenway. Roger Maris’ attempt (successfully as it turned out) at 61 homers in game 162 drew 25,000 at massive Yankee Stadium and that team was a perennial winner. And I think the world of Doc and know you obviously hold him in high esteem and always sing his praises both verbally and written, but the bottom line is wins and losses and the Jays can’t seem to be in a position to play meaningful ball in late summer. And I know Doc wasn’t as marquee a player as Ted Williams or Maris, you would have to agree wouldn’t you Mike?..You have mentioned in the past not to take baseball too personally and that it’s only a game, but I think stuff like tonite’s apathy towards Roy’s potential swan song as a Jay hits you personally, but I don’t think that’s really a bad thing.

    MW: It’s not fair to compare last night to those games back then, because back then teams rarely even drew a million fans in a season. The average attendance in MLB for a game in 1961 was 13,213.

    - chris m.
45. 45.
    July 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
    

    Mike, I want to apologize to you, The Fan, and Doc Halladay for missing the game .
    I just don’t have my priorities straight I guess .

    MW: That’s more like it!

    - Chas
46. 46.
    July 25th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
    

    Mike,

    A suggestion for your show. Is there a chance you can get Jamie and Rance from the TV broadcast to come in and take some phone calls with you?

    MW: Why would you be interested in that? That’s not sarcastic at all, by the way.

    - James from Mississauga
47. 47.
    July 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
    

    As far as your theory that Halladay was trying to pressure ownership to increase payroll to compete in the AL East goes, I don’t see it myself, but I think that if that was what was happening, he miscalculated their will to win. As I say, I doubt that that’s what happened.

    Mike, I understand it must be frustrating to deal with a horde of people baying for blood and making over-the-top criticisms of JP Ricciardi, and I have no illusions that you’re going to change your mind, but I honestly don’t get what you and the other remaining defenders of the guy are looking at. Is he the worst GM in baseball? Of course not. Has he been an improvement over Gord Ash? Sure. Has he been unlucky sometimes? Absolutely. And there’s no doubt he’s made some very good individual moves-resigning Halladay, the entire Aaron Hill experience, from drafting him to extending him, Glaus for Rolen and so on. He’s obviously got some talent.

    That said, this is his eighth year at the wheel, and the team is no closer than it was in 2002. And as far as taking over a difficult situation goes, it’s certainly true, but he did inherit the best pitcher in baseball at a reasonable contract. He gets credit for extending him at a similarly reasonable rate, but when you have a guy like Halladay at your core and eight years to build a team around him, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to demand better results than the ones that we’ve had from the Ricciardi era.

    This has been a uniquely frustrating season. The hot start, which was then wiped out amidst an unending avalanche of injuries, and for the past few weeks an absolute circus about whether and when they would trade the team’s best player. JP certainly can’t be faulted for the start and the cruel way it raised expectations, but to go from first place to trading Doc in less than two months was bound to raise a firestorm. And I think he, or at any rate the front office, absolutely does deserve all of the heat that’s come their way over the trade rumours.

    They told us this was a building year, looking ahead to a push in 2010. This isn’t a five-year plan myth, it’s what they actually said. The team plays, on balance, as you would expect a rebuilding team to play, and suddenly there are rumours that Halladay is going to be traded. You can’t tell me that a team hoping to compete in 2010 is trading Roy Halladay in 2009. The team, as you’ve said yourself, has not played far below reasonable expectations this year-if they were surprised at where they were at when this circus began, they came in with unrealistic expectations. So either they were selling us a bill of goods in the spring when they talked about building for next year, or they changed their plans based on eighty tumultuous games this year. Neither inspires confidence.

    As I say, I’m sure it must be frustrating to deal with knee-jerk hatred of the front office and deflect unreasonable criticism of stuff beyond JP’s control. I will tell you, though, it’s frustrating to be told that if you think that JP’s had a fair shot and come up short, for whatever reason, you’re obviously someone who thinks that “JP is the devil.”

    At some point, you have to stop grading on a curve, stop making excuses and make a judgment. You said it yourself-the team has not been in a pennant race since JP took over and won’t be in one this year. If they do wind up trading Doc, I think it’s fair to say that they don’t expect to be in one next year either. That will be nine years, with nothing in particular to show for it. How many guys in baseball keep their jobs for nine years without significant improvements?

    A trade of Halladay will be painful for me as a Jays fan, but I understand that it make actually be in the best interests of the team to do it. If it is in the team’s best interests, though, that says something pretty damning about where the team is, and as the maelstrom has gone on for the past little while I used the opportunity to evaluate how the Jays have done under their current management. You’ve been quite clear that you don’t think the Jays situation is the fault of the front office. I disagree, but fine. At what point, though, would you agree that whatever the merits of the front office, it wasn’t working and a change had to be made? That’s what I’m genuinely curious about. Just how much rope are you willing to give these guys?

    I hope that Halladay isn’t traded, and that JP decides to stick with his original plan and make one last try in 2010. If he does, I of course hope he’s successful. If Doc is traded, I’m hoping he gets the ring he’s been after and that he lands the core of the next successful Jays team. But at the same time the whole thing has drawn a line under JP’s tenure for me, and I don’t really see why people are still defending his tenure in general, though I understand and appreciate when people defend him against unfair criticism.

    Cheers, Mike. Keep up the good work on the broadcast.

    MW: The main argument with which I disagree here is that the Jays are no better off now than they were in 2002, or that there have been no significant improvements to the team since Ricciardi got here. I don’t understand how anyone who is really paying attention could think that. Look at the pitching, look at the defense, look at the fact that in ’07 and ’08 this was one of the best teams in the game.

    - Ian Gray
48. 48.
    July 25th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
    

    Mike,

    Count me among the disappoin ted for the following reasons:

    1. That there were so few fans at the game last night (I was and have the ticket stub to prove it!)
    2. Because JP has essentially brought on the Halladay fiasco by his poorly constructed roster, bad money-wasting signings and a player development strategy which focuses too much on picking up other team’s discards. Sometimes it works for awhile (Downs), frequently it fails (Delucci) but most often if results in a gain with a very low ceiling (Tallet, MacDonald). Current case in point … Why don’t the Blue Jays have a major league quality left fielder? Arguable the easiest position to fill, we have had a procession of AAA players and discards through there. Why can’t he find someone to play left field when every other team in baseball can?
    3. I won’t start on the VW, Overbay and Rios issues because I know you will instantly turn off your radio.
    4. Where is Beeston? Why didn’t he jump in early and hard to stop this nonsense around Doc? Is he the Emperor with no clothes? Was it really just Gillick all along?

    …. and on and on …

    Ron M
    PS

    I have been going to games since the 70′s in many parks in North America and I cannot think of a single game where there weren’t jerks in the crowd abusing players. Luckily there are vastly more people who are appreciative and I think it would be helpful if you remembered and acknowledged that instead of generalizing. As a baseball fan I appreciate the outlet that you provide both on the air and the blog.

    MW: Go back and read what I said about the vast majority of the fans being great.

    - Ron
49. 49.
    July 25th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
    

    Getting traded to a contender & making it to the playoffs & possibly winning that way, to me, it takes a lot of luster off of it. To win it all with the team that struggled endlessly in the division & the team you came up with would be a whole universe better imho.
    I’m still holding out hope he stays & that somehow some way some changes are made between now & next season that allow
    the Jays to keep him. To me the worst part about this is we all know what this group of guys is capable of & yet the losses continue to pile up.

    - Andy
50. 50.
    July 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
    

    Mike,where do you think people’s hatred for JP comes from? It is spurned on by a senior writer in the Toronto Star, and a radio icon at your station. In both cases, sadly, two prominent media personalities are playing out a PERSONAL agenda so they feel better about themselves.
    Eventually they will win the battle (because they will not stop until JP is fired, and everyone gets fired). 8 years later we are still getting ridiculous headlines like “Jays GM blames Halladay for trade talk” and this idiocy is rubbing off.
    Because of this I have to put up with idiots at the ballpark and callers in to Jays talk with you. In the end, I don’t listen to Jays talk after a loss, I don’t read Star articles by Richard, and I don’t listen to the bobcat (and I’m doing fine!). Unfortunately for you, you don’t have that option (especially the Jays talk part)

    At this point in time, I would say by virtue of doing his job and making mistakes, JP is a better GM than he has ever been, and firing him so we can sit through the learning curve of someone else is just not that appealing.

    MW: I agree with you that a lot of the angry callers on the post-game and the angry commenters here are simply parroting things they’ve heard from Bob or read from Richard Griffin, but I don’t think those two are the sole reasons, or even the main reasons, for all the hatred and venom.

    - Mark
51. 51.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
    

    There was a topic on your radio show the other day asking fans how much Doc Halladay means to us. Well, here’s my answer.. I’ve been to 43 Jays game since 2005 and Doc has started in 30 of them! So you can see that I usually go to games when Doc is on the mound. In my eyes, he’s already a legend and a true gentleman. I am sure there’ll be a few tears when he’d be wearing some other uniform. Doc is simply irreplacable!

    P.S: I hope he goes to a N.L team and never comes back to pitch against the Jays here in Toronto. That’ll be too much to take.

    MW: No one is irreplaceable.

    - Beburg
52. 52.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
    

    Last night proved once again the sad reality that the number of Toronto baseball spectators is directly proportional to whether the Jays are winning. Opening day is still an event in Toronto so the 40K will show. The May 12th (vs AJ Yankee) & 17th starts were the peak because it was the high point of their record.

    I’ve been a season ticket holder since 1987 and have always gone to enjoy baseball, not whether my team wins or loses, but I want an honest effort from my team. I draft games so I can see specific players (like Ichiro), specific teams (Yankees, RSox) or certain games (my daughter loves Dog Day!).

    I value the honest effort the Jays make each year to field a quality team each year. I agree with you Mike whenever you remind callers who wonder why the Jays can’t be like Tampa – they were crap for 10 years. I would not have remained a season ticket holder if the Jays had set a deliberate strategy to lose that badly for years.

    The Jays have been a very good team with very bad luck over recent years. Great hitting poor pitching; best pitching in baseball, worst hitting with runners in scoring position. It is hard to get it all going at the same time, when you don’t have unlimited financial resources.
    The two years it all clicked for the Jays they had the highest payroll.

    - Rez
53. 53.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
    

    I agree with you Mike. I was there, and most fans were great – unfortunately a sprinkling of morons seems to be inevitable. The people chanting ‘pizza .. pizza’ come to mind.

    What I have to ask though, is did that crowd look like 24k to you? Honestly, I would have guessed at least 30k. It really makes me wonder how they used to count attendance.

    - James H
54. 54.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
    

    Hello Mike.

    Long time Jays fan,probably since 81 or so.Long time pre,pre-pre,rain delay and post game show listener.

    Gotta tell you Mike you both entertain and infuriate me,usually several times a show…which keeps me coming back i guess.Not unlike the Bobcat.

    It sounds to me like it`s time for you to hand over,or just quit the blog,and perhaps the post game call-in segment.

    Hey,some people are idiots,we all know that,but there`s no sense killing yourself,well,being frustrated all the time,angry some\most? of the time,and now basically threatening to quit the blog.

    Time for a new perspective,a new set of eyes,and ears.Personally,like i said,i`ll miss being pissed off at you one minute,and laughing the next.

    Take a break,sounds like the idiots have worn you down.

    MW: I didn’t say anything about quitting the blog, just no longer replying to comments. I’m glad to hear that I both entertain and infuriate you – that’s kind of cool. There’s no question that the idiots have worn me down, but that’s what they’re trying to do.

    - Dave
55. 55.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
    

    Mike,

    I’ll keep it short and sweet like I did last time you felt frustrated with the few callers/writers who ruin it for all of us (think it was last July?)

    “Never argue with a fool because they’ll bring you down to their level and beat you with their experience”

    Keep that mind next time you have to respond to many of the comments you get.

    Keep up the good work.

    MW: Much obliged.

    - Shachin
56. 56.
    July 25th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
    

    I was at the game and the crowd didn’t look like 24,000 at all, it looked and sounded more like 30,000. I’ve been in crowds before that were said to be around 24,000, and there were a lot more blue seats. The weather before the game was pretty bad in some areas of Toronto, so that may have been a reason for the crowd not being really huge. To you, did this crowd really look that small?

    One thing that annoys me though is how the media always talks about how cheap the tickets are, and because of that more people should be at the ballpark. I’ve sat in the 500 level, 200 level outfield and 100 level outfield before (which are the 3 cheapest zones) and the view is pretty bad. In the 500′s you feel pretty isolated, and really far away from the game, and in the outfield it’s hard to tell what’s going on half the time. The cheapest good tickets are the Field Level Baselines, which cost $33-$42, and when I go to games with my friends, they don’t want to pay that much to watch a baseball game. The couple times we have payed that much, it adds up to a fortune (and both times we did this, the game was awful…like the Jays didn’t score any runs and since then they haven’t wanted to go back) so it’s hard to go to more than a few games a year. If they Blue Jays had some decent tickets that cost about $15-$20 I would be at the ball part A LOT more often, and I’m sure a lot of others would too since I know I’m not the only one with these thoughts.

    - Spencer
57. 57.
    July 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
    

    word!

    - Jeff in Waterdown
58. 58.
    July 25th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
    

    do you think that players on the Jays lineup are not good enough to contend in al east or is it the talents dont mesh together hence things as risp are affected?

    MW: I think the RISP thing is just a coincidence.

    - mike
59. 59.
    July 25th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
    

    Michael,

    Are you going to be doing something special at Wilner Nation for this 92-93 Player’s reunion coming up?

    MW: Wilner Nation?

    - Uncle Ben
60. 60.
    July 25th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
    

    k wilner
    he said that rios cant spell cat if you spot him the c and the T,and i agree

    anyone who did what he did with that kid the day he struck out 5 times makes me agree with bob

    MW: That kid wasn’t a regular kid. And you agree based on how many conversations you’ve had with Rios?

    - Daniel
61. 61.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
    

    Why blame the fans for not showing up to see in this division an inferior product. When the Jays were winning the stadium was filled with fans. Comparing the Jays to the Leafs is apples and oranges. If you want to compete and fill the stands unfortunately you have to play by the rules the Red Soxs and the Yankees have set or see if you can get into the Central Division. Baseball has to think of a playoff system similar to basketball and hockey so fans in more cities can be excited by their team’s chances, Remember play-offs are a new season and not always the best teams win.

    MW: Which is a whole other argument.

    - Harvey
62. 62.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
    

    Swinging at that pitch in the inter-league series may have been the single most expensive action Scott Downs has ever performed. He has been nowhere near as effective since he came off the dl and is fast turning into a kind of darker smaller BJ Ryan.

    MW: He hasn’t been THAT bad.

    - isabella reyes
63. 63.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
    

    Is it the Red Sox and Yankees fault that this team has blown, on two occasions this year nine run leads???
    Excuses,excuses,excuses!!!

    MW: Yes, in fact, it is. Actually, you’re going to have to help me out here, because I can’t find a single occasion on which the Jays have blown a nine-run lead.

    - dan harrison
64. 64.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
    

    Mike:

    I was trying to find your e-mail and could not locate it anywhere, so I am corresponding through your blog.

    Currently watching the Blue Jays game (Saturday) and frustrated to the teeth with the fact that they have allowed Tampa to tie the score. I think the turning point was the first hit in the 7th Inning, when Vernon Well did not make any serious attempt to catch, what looked like a catchable ball.

    When is someone going to take the Bull by the horns with both Wells and Rios. I have zero confidence in them coming to the plate in a crucial point, and would rather have John McDonald, as he will at least try. They are not the leaders or priemer players on the team, and have not been for a couple of years. Sit them down, or send them the minors to get their act together. Give the other players with some heart and sole a chance to show what they can do.

    Enough for my rant, but it has been bothering me for some time now. Today, was the breaking point.

    Question. I see players, mainly pitchers, on several teams wearing a necklace which could be described as looking a bit like a bicycle lock. Is there some meaning to this neckwear?

    Thanks,

    Bob

    MW: Today, when Wells singled and doubled and Rios had two hits including a two-run homer, was the breaking point? Interesting. I think Wells could have laid out and tried to make what would have been an incredible catch on that Longoria looper in the 7th, but there’s more bad than good that can happen there with an 8-1 lead. If you don’t think Wells and Rios have been premier players for a couple of years, you haven’t been paying attention. The necklace is made by a company called Phiten.

    - Bob Lyons
65. 65.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
    

    Mike -

    Heard today your analysis of Aaron Hills recent performance (more power but lower BA as season progresses). You said you were impressed that he had maintained his power despite his struggles to maintain his BA. Isn’t your interpretation wrong? Isn’t it more likely that, once he had hit a few HRs, he has eschewed putting the ball on the ground and getting hits for the occasional long ball? In other words, willingly exchanged homers for BA? In that light it is not only not amazing that he has
    “maintained power” but it is also not amazing that his BA has plummetted.

    MW: I disagree. Hill didn’t rack up many hits in the early part of the season by putting the ball on the ground. I wish I could find his line drive percentage.

    - Rene
66. 66.
    July 25th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
    

    Mike,

    I just want to let you know that there are some of us out here who really, REALLY appreciate your honest and balanced analysis of this ball club. I start every day by reading your synopsis of the previous day’s game and I enjoy your interviews and your radio programme. So Mike, from someone who considers himself a reasonable, rational fan – thanks.

    I love the Blue Jays but, to be honest, their fans drive me crazy. In my opinion a large majority of these fans lack perspective, objectivity, and seem to relish the opportunity to be miserable. Like you, I am at a loss for the source of this negativity. Yes, this ball club is frustrating to watch sometimes (like this game in the 11th where we have blown an 8 run lead) and yes, we have not made the playoffs in a long time. But….so what? It is a GAME. Sports are not life – they are a diversion from our regular life that allows us to pleasure our senses and forget the worries, stress, and troubles that reality brings. People need to relax, take a deep breath, and just enjoy the game of baseball. I am just not sure what the (expletive) is wrong with these so-called fans.

    I love baseball. Of all the things humans have created, I think baseball is the most beautiful thing on earth. It is marvellous, wonderful game that I cannot imagine life without. The smells, the sounds, the history….it’s amazing.

    I get the feeling that there is nothing this team or its management can do to please the fans, and that is really sad to me. If the team won six World Series in a row and lost the seventh, people would complain. Are we the next Brooklyn Dodgers where people become totally apathetic to the club and just refuse to show up? The fact that the Baltimore Orioles with 11 losing seasons in a row has a higher average attendance than this ball club is shameful.

    MW: Relish the opportunity to be miserable. I like that.

    - Darren in Carleton Place
67. 67.
    July 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
    

    Mike, I agree J.P. has had some bad luck as did Gord Ash before him. But he’s in a job where results are the bottom line and after seven years of no meaningless games in September, I think the fans do have a right to be frustrated, but not to the extent of some of the people you describe above.
    I will say that yes they are in the worst possible division to be in, but that’s not going to change, whether JP is the GM or not. It’s time to give someone else a chance.

    2 questions

    Why not use Frasor to close today (and yes I did ask that before Downs came in)?

    Will Overbay ever swing at a 2-0 fastball down the middle?

    Thanks for letting the fans speak!!

    MW: You mean meaningful. Downs is the closer, that’s why you don’t close with Frasor, and maybe.

    - Marvin
68. 68.
    July 25th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
    

    “Finally, I don’t agree with you very often, but I agree with you on this point. The Jays, Orioles and Rays start each season at a significant disadvantage compared to the rest of the major leagues. Therefore, I believe it is time to strip this organization to the developmental essentials and start over with a new G. M. in 2010.”
    MW: I’ve heard what you’re saying before – that seven or eight years is a lifetime for a G.M, in any sport. Pat Gillick was the Blue Jays’ G.M. for 17 years, and they didn’t win a World Series until his 14th. I don’t get how your last two sentences work together, either.

    a) Lets not get ahead of ourselves and compare Gillick and J. P. Even if there were growing pains, Gillick’s body of work in Toronto, Seattle, Baltimore and finally Philadelphia speaks for itself. What can we use in the last 7 years to compare … the one year the Jays finished ahead of Boston?
    b) The Jays are 25th in attendance this year. My point re: stripping down the organization was not well explained, and I didn’t tie it into the previous point. In the absence of a salary cap, I see the only way for the Jays to compete in this division is to trade present veterans for prospects and use the draft and astute player transactions to try to get back in the conversation at least in the the A. L. East., perhaps as early as 2011.

    MW: A – Not comparing Gillick to J.P. in anything but tenure.

    - Bob
69. 69.
    July 25th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
    

    Does it make sense to you to have Rios bunt and to then to pinch hit with the captain knowing full well he’s not going to get a pitch to hit and you can’t pinch run for him? I sort of understand it if the winning run goes to second, but in this situation I don’t understand.

    Can you perhaps shed some light for me

    thanks

    Chris

    MW: You have to tie before you win, that’s how I saw it. Of course, I hate the bunt.

    - Chris Thompson
70. 70.
    July 25th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
    

    MW: I haven’t sat in second deck outfield, but I have sat in the 500 level and in the 100-level outfield. Those 200-level outfield seats are $22, by the way. And still, even those seats are cheaper than the cheapest seat at a Leaf game.

    Alright, today they’re $25. Premium game you know. Extra money for the extra disappointment. Throw in the convenience charges and I’m right. We had more fans than any Leaf game last night.

    - Ken
71. 71.
    July 25th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
    

    On Jays’ Talk last night, you called these Jays a very, very, very good team.
    Come on, Mike. Does this make the Orioles a very, very good team? The Nationals a very good team? 10′th and headed south.
    We understand that you take attacks on J.P. very personally but no need to risk your credibility.
    J.C.

    MW: I don’t take attacks on J.P. personally at all. This edition of the Jays isn’t a very, very, very good team, but the last two were.

    - jchenry
72. 72.
    July 25th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
    

    Hi Mike,

    Well, today’s 10-9 loss was pathetic and I feel the final dagger (if it hadn’t already delivered)in this season. A 9-1 lead frittered away like nothing. Its a joke, really. Jeremy Accardo sucks and shouldn’t even be here. The two runs he surrendered were huge. He is a one year wonder and should be jettisoned somewhere far away from here. Scott Downs has hit a wall it would seem ever since he returned from the DL, but he did a fantastic job for most of the year so what can you say, he’s human and he will have these kinds of outings. The bats were good but the bullpen faltered. To be honest, I am tired of this mediocrity year after year. Its a joke. I have always been positive in here but its tough to swallow every year.

    - Ian from Whitby
73. 73.
    July 25th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
    

    “The main argument with which I disagree here is that the Jays are no better off now than they were in 2002, or that there have been no significant improvements to the team since Ricciardi got here. I don’t understand how anyone who is really paying attention could think that. Look at the pitching, look at the defense, look at the fact that in ‘07 and ‘08 this was one of the best teams in the game.”

    Well, that will teach me for being reasonable. Advance an argument and you get told that you clearly aren’t paying attention.

    In 2007 and 2008 JP put together an excellent pitching staff. The offense, however, finished first tenth and then eleventh in runs scored in the league and in neither year was this some sort of shock that couldn’t have been foreseen based on the personnel he had put in place. Fantastic run-prevention can make you a good team, and it did, but it can’t make you one of the best teams in baseball if you can’t hit. And the Jays haven’t been an above average offensive team since 2005.

    I was at a thing with Ricciardi in 2003-you were there too, Mike, not that I expect you to remember-where he told the crowd that you couldn’t win in the AL East based on pitching and defense. He may very well have changed his mind and set about assembling a top flight pitching and defense team, but if that’s the case, he was probably right the first time. I can’t imagine that you could put a better pitching and defense squad out there than the Jays have the past three years, and they haven’t been close to the playoffs in any of them.

    At some point, as I say, you have to look at what you have. You said it yourself-this team has not been in a pennant race in 15 years. The last eight have been under Ricciardi’s stewardship, and at this point it’s entirely fair to ask whether there’s any reasonable prospect of one arising in the next couple of years. If they trade Halladay, I can’t see how the answer could be yes. I’m all for being fair to people in tough jobs, but I think eight years is an entirely fair trial. And at this point, I don’t see how it could be argued that it’s been a success.

    MW: I don’t think anyone has ever argued that Ricciardi’s tenure has been a success, certainly not me and I doubt even J.P. But again, your post was very long and involved, and from what I remember, I agreed with most of the points you made. Just I can’t see how anyone would think they’re not in better shape now than they were eight years ago.

    - Ian Gray
74. 74.
    July 25th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
    

    Mike,

    Sorry, but after that ridiculous loss you expected venting.

    Re booing Wells:

    Ole Vern must wake up every day and thank his lucky stars he’s not playing in N.Y. or Philly, or any other number of tough towns – they’d run him out of town long before his contract expires, and that would be a GOOD thing…

    Try as I might, I just can’t feel sorry for someone who will make (can’t write “earn”) 20 million dollars a year and is doing a wretched job of work

    Re Rios:

    If Rios is considered a building block by anyone in authority then this club is even worse shape than imagined – if there’s ONE GM left out there who still has delusions that this guy is going to be a star TRADE him ASAP!

    I’m not sure what they’d get for the third cog in that insanely overpaid Murderer’s Row trio, Overbay – I don’t think any GMs will care what his On-Base-Percentage is – plodding firstbasemen are kinda expected to hit with power, or at least drive in runs (I admit he contributes more in a platoon roll, but his value is still marginal).

    Finally – all these golden arms that are going to lead the Jays to that elusive Promised Land: do unbiased baseball analysts rate the Jays young pitchers as being better than other teams? I suspect they don’t. Or is it J.P. clutching at the promise of the least reliable commodity of all as his veteran team crumbles?

    The farm system is apparently lacking in significant position player talent, and soon they’ll need a catcher, and a new infield except for Hill (they really need two new outfielders as well, but that’s beyond the realm of possibility)… BTW – what happened to that catching prospect who we were assured was the answer behind the plate?

    You said it yourself last night – the answer is to get “better players” – only it’s going to have be A LOT of “better players” … Even if these young pheenom pitchers DO materialize to some degree – hasn’t it been proved that pitching alone isn’t enough to compete in the AL?

    MW: Well, in the AL East, anyway. I expected venting, so good venting.

    - Ken
75. 75.
    July 25th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
    

    MW: I don’t take attacks on J.P. personally at all. This edition of the Jays isn’t a very, very, very good team, but the last two were.

    No they weren’t. Have you forgotten the awful April? The dreadful May? The Gibbons-firing June? They had a 10 game win streak, but that did not prevent them from finishing 4th in the division. Do you not recall the horrible penchant they had for hitting into double-plays? The lousy RISP stats? The complete power outage?

    The pitching was terrific. The defense was terrific (still is). But the offense was lousy and we paid the price for it. Last year’s version of the Jays was Rolaid-worthy frustrating. And thoughtfully they have carried on the tradition. You loved that 10-gamer? Here’s a month and a half of fabulous ball to wet your appetites before–surprise!–we all kind of slide down into mediocrity again.

    Scott Downs isn’t BJ Ryan bad yet. But he’s heading that way what with 2 blown saves back to back. I am an admirer of his but I maintain he hasn’t pitched as well since coming off the dl.

    MW: The dreadful May in which they went 20-10? Certainly the offense was lacking, and phenomenally so at times, but they still managed the second-best run differential in the league last season even in spite of it.

    - isabella reyes
76. 76.
    July 25th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
    

    Mike It is totally not true that the last two editions of the Jays were ver very very good, last yeat the hitting was atroshious this year like last year RISP is a disaster, and the year befor last year you were crying about injuries. How could you call a team very very good that can’t even sniff meaniful baseball in september. What is you meaning of good. By the way think about it, had it not been for Gord Ash (A GM you have based to no end) and his Drafting of Halladay, What major movable assets would we have that would bring us a great return.

    MW: I don’t know – Snider, Cecil, Lind, Hill, Rzepczynski, Romero maybe.

    - Thomas
77. 77.
    July 25th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
    

    Mike, I didn’t hear it mentioned on the radio broadcast (watching TV, but listening to Jerry/Alan), but once again the Jays were betrayed by their defense. The passed ball in the 8th meant that one of the runs off Accardo was unearned, which in turn means that, with perfect defense, the Jays win 9-8.

    Four times in a week? Whodathunkit?

    MW: Yeah, but that one yesterday doesn’t show up as much because the Jays should have cruised to the win in their sleep. Defense certainly didn’t lose them that game.

    - Norm
78. 78.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
    

    Michael,

    What were your thoughts on the Matt Holliday trade?

    MW: I thought both teams did pretty well for themselves. Another check in Billy Beane’s column – he signs Holliday, pays him for half a season and winds up with Brett Wallace. Nice.

    - Uncle Ben
79. 79.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
    

    So I could rant a lot about the last couple of weeks, but I have a couple of friends who are fans too, so I ranted at them.

    I would not want to be a member of the ball club right now. I’m having trouble watching from 200 kilometres away, really. I like these guys, I think they look great on paper. I just can’t stand to watch them play for 9 innings. Nothing is working. I blame no one in particular, but it would be really nice if they could all take a deeeeeep breath, give their heads a shake and play like it was May 1st again wouldn’t it?

    MW: If only it were that easy.

    - Greg W
80. 80.
    July 25th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
    

    Darren, what on earth do the fans demanding accountability have to do with the fact that this team has not been competive for years now. Darren It is Brutally sad that you want the fans of a team owned by a billion dollar corporation to sit here and continue to subject ourselves to losing. Part of the reason why the are the Yankees and Red Sox(who alot of people wine about) are who they are is because Boston fans don’t stand for losing. People, it is not only Toronto that comes down hard on their sports teams, Watch the New York Knicks or the Chicago Bulls, Detroit Lions. It makes me sick When I read comments on this post critisizing paying fans who demand more out of their team or people saying JP has done a great Job without really showing how. Toronto Maple leaf fans for years failed to put decent teams on the ice f and what did management do about it, NOthing. Why because the fans accepted mediocrity and continued supporting a lousy team with gm’s that made bad moves and management that didn’t spend the money. I just Don’t get can people not embrace change or a new vision. Darren do you want JP here for another eight years.

    MW: I know that was for Darren, but Boston fans don’t stand for losing? That was really funny.

    - Thomas
81. 81.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
    

    I think one of the saddest aspects of the potential Halladay trade is that several of the rumoured destination teams are probably worse than the Blue Jays are; they just don’t happen to play in the AL East.

    Having said that, would Rogers have any leverage (greater than the 1/30th they presumably have anyway)if they decided they wanted to change divisions, or at least implement a balanced schedule? I know Rogers greatly enjoys the money they make off of the additional Boston and New York games, but doesn’t a playoff team bring even greater revenue, regardless of what division the team plays in?

    As a fan, it’s very frustrating to watch what is probably a top-8 team sit 4th in their division, ready to trade away the best player in franchise history.

    MW: Well said. No, I can’t imagine the Jays/Rays/Orioles have any extra leverage in trying to implement a balance schedule.

    - Adam
82. 82.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
    

    Mike,

    Entertaining game today for sure. Had to leave when it was 9-5 and it was definitely disappointing to see them lose.

    Anyways, just wanted to make a comment on something both my fiancee and I noticed at todays game.

    We were discussing Vernon’s struggles and how fans Friday were booing. When he came up to the plate, his “plate music” was significantly louder than any of the other 8 batters.

    At first, we thought, hmmm – maybe the volume just got turned up accidently. Then the next 3 times through the batting order, the same thing happened each time Wells was up.

    Now I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist, but, it seems on the surface they are trying to drown out the mix of cheers and boos when he would get to the plate.

    Listen for it tomorrow if you are indeed at the game and can hear the in-stadium sound. I’ll be interested to see if you or anyone else notices this.

    MW: I’ll try to listen for it – but whether they jack the sound or not, I still hear plenty of boos whenever Vernon comes to the plate.

    - AK47
83. 83.
    July 25th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
    

    Mike
    I do not agree that JP has done a good job or that he has put together a good collection of players. I also do not accept the excuse that you have offered for him that he is a first time GM — even if this is his first major league GM job, he has been at it for several years. A good collection of players includes a good farm system. The Jays have a very poor farm system. This is why they have to keep picking up cast-offs from other teams. This is why picking up prospects through a team trading for Doc will be sold as being attractive. I have been a baseball fan for nearly 40 years and have been faithful to the Jays for their entire history, but enough is enough. I consider you to be an apologist for JP as generally is your radio station, except Badger Bob — after all, your staton is owned by the same corporate group which owns the Jays. When JP is fired, I fully expect your station to then say that JP did a poor job and has to go — to support his firing by Rogers. The fact is that JP’s record (not just won-lost at the major league level) is such that he should have lost his job a while ago. If I did such a poor job in my management position, I would expect to lose my job. I fully expect that the Jays will lose a lot of their support at this point, as attention has finally shifted to whether JP deserves to stay and there has been no move to replace him. Rogers could decide to get some good free agents this off-season, but not by having JP do the recruiting. Then maybe the Doc would see fit to stick for another season. But that is not going to happen, because Rogers simply sees this as an investment and won’t spend the money necessary to see if the team can be brought to the point of winning again.
    The Doc is a class act and a remarkable pitcher. We will not see his like again in Toronto for a very long time, if ever. I tuned in last night to see the game and thought about going to the game, just to see him. But you can’t blame people for being fed up with the Jays for supporting JP and for essentially looking at the prospect of having to rebuild again, but not having the players in the system up and coming except for what they might pick up from a team trading for Doc. Bad as it is to lose Doc, I don’t blame him for wanting to win and to have perceived that has to leave Toronto in order to have a shot at post-season action. I wish him well. but I have absolutely no confidence that JP will be able to judge what players should be asked for in return for Doc. So, the future for this team looks bleak and I, like thousands of other fans, am very frustrated. We are entitled to not attend games, as our form of protest and should not be criticized for feeling as we do.

    MW: If you have the right to be critical of me for the way I see things, then don’t I have the same right?

    - Blair
84. 84.
    July 25th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
    

    I blame Cito for this one. Tallet hadn’t pitched in 17 days. What the heck is he doing starting the 7th inning? Tallet did his job; 6 innings of solid work was all you can ask from the guy. But Cito let him rot in the 7th inning after taking him out of the pitching rotation and not using him for 17 days! Pathetic! Tallet should have been the hero today, not one of the goats! If League starts the 7th inning, the Jays don’t lose this game.

    MW: You can’t be serious. Even with Tallet hitting the wall in the 7th, the Jays still went into the 8th inning with a four-run lead.

    - Steve
85. 85.
    July 25th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
    

    Hi Mike, I want to address most of the people who have responded to your blog in the past couple days.
    First, this whole freak out after JP said that Roy Halladay was going to test free agency. Am I the only one who already thought that since he wants to play for a contending team and it had already been said that a chance of a trade was 50/50? Also, no one has said he will not resign with the Jays.
    Second, people are starting to sound like the Jays are the only team in the league. Don’t you think that every other manager is trying to build a winning team and it’s just not that easy? Open your eyes people.
    Third, I’m also a struggling student, so i sat in the 500s, c’mon 9$. A pack of cigarettes is more! Or even reuse a binder!
    I was at the game on Friday night with my family. I had a great time except for the one fan right behind me who was very negative towards every thing except Roy. That fan kept saying Toronto didn’t deserve Halladay because the crowd wasn’t loud enough. I was uncomfortable because I’m shy and don’t yell but I’m still a fan. I stand up and clap and heck even give the odd cheer and stay until the end of the game. That fan, however, left after the top of the 10th. It’s baseball anything can happen!!

    MW: Thank you!

    - Courtney
86. 86.
    July 26th, 2009 at 12:05 am
    

    HeyMike…..in the 8th inning why in the world was Rolen so far off the line to let that 2 run double get by him…thank God the ump blew the call at 2nd base to end that inning otherwise we may not have needed extra innings. Can you als remind me when we had our last walk off win….in the 1st month of the season it seemed like every other win the Jays had were from the walk off variety.
    The 2 trades I’d make would be to trade Halladay and Rios this year…get the best package you can and hope that next year Wells comes out flying and a team is desparate for his services…with Hill, Rolen, Lind, Snider (once he’s completely healthy) and the potential young starters in the system build from them and let’s hope all the injuries are past the pitchers…even though I don’t agree with most of your assessments…don’t let the complaining fans get to you….I know easier said the don e…keep it up…Mark

    MW: Rolen was off the line because guarding the line with two out and a four run lead in the 8th inning is a losing strategy. The last walk-off win the Jays had was on May 2nd against the Orioles, when Aaron Hill singled in Rod Barajas in the 11th. It was their fourth walk-off of the first month of the season.

    - Mark Feeley
87. 87.
    July 26th, 2009 at 12:08 am
    

    I’m flabbergasted by the amount of moronic fans that buy into everything the execs of the team say, only to twist those statements into lies and half-truths.

    First of all, there was no five year plan. JP was initally given a five year contract, and much of his work was sort centered around that, but the words “five year plan” never really came out of his mouth. Even so, does everyone have to be Mark Messier and guarantee success within a certain time frame? Building and preparing the future he can do; a fortune teller he is not.

    Secondly, remember who said we were building up for ’10 and essentially mailing in this season? CITO!!!! How the hell is Ricciardi getting blamed for deviating from the plan that the manager made up? That being said, why does that statement even matter? Aren’t the fans intelligent enough to make judgments on their own regarding the direction of this franchise? Oh wait, they aren’t, and they just regurgitate everything that the ignorant media (ie. the Bobcat and his cronies…obviously not you Mike) spews at them.

    Finally, this team has been over .500 in the best division in baseball each of the last three years, and quite comfortably over .500 in two of those years…and people claimed that they’re “done” with the team if Roy goes? I want a championship contender too, but *****. Imagine if we were ACTUALLY bad, you know, like the kind of crap that diehard Royals and Pirates fans put up with every year. The fans wouldn’t deal with it, and that’s a scary thought.

    MW: I think that if the team were actually bad, most fans would just ignore it, and that’s worse.

    - Matt
88. 88.
    July 26th, 2009 at 12:20 am
    

    The reason Hallday wants out is because JP doesn’t know how to do his job..

    MW: Sigh

    Even though this comment got a “sigh”, there is a lot a truth in this comment when one stops to analyze the past eight seasons. And when combined with Godfrey’s insistence that Wells be given an offer he couldn’t refuse, we end up with the situation the Jays find themselves in today.

    ___________________________

    Alex Rios, after being hit in the head by a Kerry Wood pitch last game is attended to by trainer George Poulis…..

    Poulis: Alex…..are you Ok? How many outs are there?
    Rios: I have no idea…
    Poulis: Ok, you’re fine.

    c’mon…..just a little funny?

    MW: Yeah, that’s a little funny.

    Bobcat calls him “Einstein”. Maybe it’s me, but I think that’s sort of funny.

    MW: This is why people call me an apologist – there is ZERO truth to the statement that J.P. doesn’t know how to do his job.

    - alex
89. 89.
    July 26th, 2009 at 12:44 am
    

    “Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Washington/Montreal and Toronto – the only teams that have not made the playoffs since the advent of the wild card.”

    Well I see that the Jays are in some pretty select company. Nice. I never hear MW acknowledging that both the Orioles and the Rays have made the playoffs out of the AL East, when he’s explaining why the Jays can’t pull it off.

    _____________________________

    MW: Halladay missed almost half a season in 2004 with shoulder fatigue.

    This was after a 2003 season in which Halladay threw 266 innings going after the Cy Young Award. The Jays are rather lucky that it only cost them the 2004 season and that Halladay recovered. When he did pitch in 2004 by the way he ERA was 4.20, so clearly he wasn’t particularly healthy at all in that season.

    MW: The Orioles and the Rays have made the playoffs a total of ONCE combined since 1997.

    - alex
90. 90.
    July 26th, 2009 at 8:36 am
    

    I need to comment on the behaviour of fans at the game. Seriously, when I think about whether or not to make the +2hr drive to the park or stay at home and watch on tv, more often than not it’s the moronic fans that tip the balance for me. It makes me sick at heart to hear the abuse our players take from these idiots who profess to be fans. Makes one wonder how on earth they would treat a player who actually deserved to be booed and insulted, by reason of cheating, abusing, mugging little old ladies… It’s not simply the fact that the fans are booing their own players but the ignorance displayed by their comments makes me blush for them (as if they cared). If you were going to scream something at the top of your lungs in front of +25,000 people wouldn’t you put a little thought into it? “You suck!” is a juvenile, senseless taunt heard in elementary school yards, or at least it used to be. Heckling players and umps used to be, and should be, a finely honed skill practiced by people with a sense of humour who know and love the game. It can be a source of entertainment that enhances the live game experience. Now it seems to be largely a venue for clots of developmentally arrested fools unable to exercise any level of self-control or to string together more than 2 words into something coherent. “Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you’re a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”

    - FayJay
91. 91.
    July 26th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
    

    I’m not sure if having an opinion different then yours, makes someone negative..While the J.P supporters highlight the good things he has done, those of us who think otherwise, point out the bad things..Does that make us negative?..I think it makes a good argument..

    You believe Riccardi is a good GM and most don’t..Both sides could make a decent argument either way..But isn’t that the problem?..

    For every good thing Riccardi has done you could name one bad thing..For example: Trading for Eric Hinske- good..Koch fell out of baseball and Hinske won rookie of the year..Although Justin Miller might look good in the Jays pen right now, he was a throw in..

    The trade was good but then he signed him to a big deal after one decent season..He became a Blue Jay whipping boy shortly after that..Good trade, Bad contract..

    The list could go on…

    MW: If you go on, you’ll find the good will far outweigh the bad. It doesn’t make you negative to point out the bad things – but that’s not what people are doing.

    - ray b
92. 92.
    July 26th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
    

    Mike:

    I couldn’t let this thread pass by without stating my appreciation for Roy Halliday.

    I was unable to get to the Friday evening game but our family did make his start against the Red Sox the previous Saturday. We sat in the the 237 level with a clear view of Roy warming up in the bullpen and took some good photographs of him and cheered him as he left the bullpen to make his way to the mound. I also bought a Roy Halladay jersey before the game began, the first time I have bought a jersey with any player’s name or number on it. (I have bought jerseys in the part, but all of them blank). This past Saturday during the Jays’ batting practice, Roy signed a baseball for me, something I will treasure forever, no matter where he ends up. I have enjoyed watching him pitch over the years and have always appreciated his work ethic and the respectable manner in which he has comported himself no matter the state of the team, a true gentleman. He has been the ideal face for this franchise.

    I hope something works out so that he remains with the team and that all the pieces fall into place so that the Blue Jays win a championship in the next few years — with Roy Halladay.

    - Ian D. Elsasser
93. 93.
    July 27th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
    

    On the J.P. thing, have you responded re the PR side of things as opposed to the moves he has made? Do you not care about that part? I share the views of those who think his abrasiveness is more than unpleasant, and again, what he said about Halladay “testing the market” was just way offside under the circumstances. Why don’t you talk about that aspect?

    MW: Because I don’t think the fact that he makes fans bristle when he opens his mouth has much bearing on how he does his job.

    - William
94. 94.
    July 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
    

    Mike,
    I have been a Jay fan for over 20 years and it is just becoming heart breaking to see what has been going on with this team since the strike season.

    the obvious is the obvious… this team has not played a meaningful game post all star since the team went on a lucky 10 game winning streak back in 97 (i think) when Tony Philips was added to the team for a few days and the team just caught fire.

    Toronto is probably not as big with baseball as other cities it has to compete with like NY and Boston but this is not just with the baseball team.

    Look at the other 2 major sports, basketball and hockey (which Toronto suppose to be the centre of). It is something about the fans and management that breeds just being OKAY.

    We have had many great players in the past 10-12 years but the management has failed to really go after “IT”.

    Just earlier this year when the team was hot and just started to fall apart because of poor hitting, why couldn’t the management take that momentum and “really” go after a big bat? I mean they didn’t even have to make a deal but at least they could have showed us, the fans, that they are serious by just creating some hype.

    Anyways, as far as JP go, he is a minor league talent collector and kudos to him for building up a big stack of young pitching. But as far as free agents and trades go, he has been terrible.

    Here is the list of big players he has been involved with:
    - Delgado
    - Carpenter
    - Escobar
    - Hudson
    - Young
    - Izturis
    - …

    and the his free agent signees or who he got in trades:

    - Hinskey (bench player?)
    - Thomas (bust)
    - Ryan (bust)
    - AJ (jumps after he learned how to pitch)
    - Hillanberend (bust)
    - …

    To make it short, the inability of the GM to find a good slugger for team since letting Delgado go demonstrates the ability of the GM.

    PJ

    MW: Young? Ricciardi wasn’t involved with any Young. If you wanted to delve a little deeper, you’d find that the Jays didn’t have the budget to keep Delgado, Carpenter was too high-risk coming off labrum surgery (see: McGowan) for a team with a low payroll, John McDonald is every bit as good as Izturis and Hudson was traded for that good slugger you said Ricciardi couldn’t find after Delgado left. Hinske was a bench player who won rookie of the year before he broke his hand and Hillenbrand hit almost .300 as a Blue Jay and got them Jeremy Accardo in trade.

    - PJ