4:40 PM Eastern
It was one of those rare games that the Blue Jays gave away with their gloves - losing a one-run game in which they allowed the opposition three unearned runs. Truth is, it was really FOUR unearned runs, but that silly rule that doesn’t allow an official scorer to assume a double play meant that the Indians got an extra earnie.
In the top of the 5th in a 1-1 game with a runner on first and one out, Asdrubal Cabrera hit a shot to third. Hard hit, but a double play ball that should have ended the inning relatively easily. It went right through Bautista’s legs for a two-base error. The Tribe wound up with three in the inning, and Marc Rzepczynski hit the showers after Shin-Soo Choo followed with a two-run triple, instead of sitting in the dugout as they headed to the bottom of the 5th in a 1-1 tie. One of the three Indians’ runs in the inning was earned, because the scorer can’t assume the DP, but come on.
Shawn Camp threw away a pickoff attempt in the 6th, negating Kevin Millar’s nice play on a Jamey Carroll bunt to force the lead runner at third. That led to yet another unearned run.
So the Jays drop two of three to the worst team in the American League, and both losses are because of the failures of the defense. That’s new.
Millar had a terrific game today, by the way. He takes a lot of abuse here, especially in the comments section, but credit where it’s due. Batting in the clean-up spot, Millar doubled and homered and drove in a pair, and played flawless defense as well.
Lost in the morass that is the Blue Jays’ recent glovework might be the double play the Jays turned to end the second inning. It was sensational, with John McDonald going deep into the hole and sliding to come up with a Ben Francisco grounder, then firing a strike to Aaron Hill at second, whose strong throw to first got Francisco by plenty. Just gorgeous, make sure to find the highlight.
As for the bad takes, well, some of you may believe those come right here on the ol’ blogaroo on a regular basis (if so, why are you reading this?), but I’m referring to the two called strikes that went by Lyle Overbay in the bottom of the 9th when he was well ahead in the count at 3-1 with two out and the tying run at third. There is a time where the walk is not your best friend, and that’s the time. Overbay has a fantastic knowledge of the strike zone, and the fact that he took that 3-2 pitch makes me believe it was actually a ball - if someone wants to check the pitch f/x, let me know. Regardless, you can’t take a pitch, even if you’re ABSOLUTELY SURE it’s a hair off the plate (or three inches, whatever) in that situation. Flick the bat at it and foul it off so you get something better - or something farther off the plate. Borderline pitches must be swung at in that situation. Period.
Just as an aside, though, after that ill-timed strikeout, Overbay is now hitting.310 this season with runners in scoring position and two out.
The David Dellucci era is over. The Jays probably held onto him a week too long, and he’s designated for assignment having made almost no mark whatsoever as a Jay, going 1-for-25 in his eight games with that hit being a double (.040/.182/.080). Joe Inglett is back to take Looch’s place, giving even more of an indication that A - thay don’t think Randy Ruiz can hit in the big leagues, and 2 - they don’t want Travis Snider to be eligible for arbitration after next season.
Here’s today’s edition of The JaysTalk, for your listening pleasure:
Ricky Romero won’t be joining us on Baseball Today tomorrow, but he did promise to come in during the Jays’ next homestand, as did Adam Lind, so that’ll be a good time, for sure. Lind is scheduled to appear on Wednesday, August 5th, with Romero’s date still up in the air.
J.P. Ricciardi came on Baseball Today today and told us two big things. The first was that Dustin McGowan had surgery to repair torn cartilage in his knee a couple of weeks ago (nice of the Blue Jays to let us know). It won’t really affect his rehab since he wasn’t going to pitch this year anyway, but man do you ever have to feel for the guy. Tommy John, torn rotator cuff, labrum debridement and now the knee? What else could happen to him? Sheesh.
The other big piece of news was the revelation that Roy Halladay has told the Jays that he won’t sign an extension with the team before testing the free agent market after next season. That, says J.P., is why the Halladay trade talk is hotter and heavier this season than it’s ever been. And you know what? Good for Roy Halladay. Were I him, no matter how much I loved it here, I wouldn’t re-sign without at least dipping a toe in the free agent waters. No matter how much you think you know what’s out there, you don’t know what’s out there until you find out what’s out there. As I’ve said many times, there are 27 teams that have a better chance of making the playoffs than the Blue Jays do - every year. Halladay wants to win, and he’d prefer to win in Toronto, but he knows what he’s up against in the A.L. East until the Jays commit to competing financially with the big boys.
I’m still not sure Halladay will be traded in the next week. I’d say now that I think the odds are a little bit better than 50-50 that he goes (but I change my mind on that hourly, so take from that what you will), but I do believe that if he does go, the Jays will do very well in a trade - they remain in a position of incredible strength.
I also know that tomorrow could well be Halladay’s last home start as a Blue Jay, and I think it would be awesome if he got a packed house as an appropriate potential send-off. Come on, Toronto, make the guy cry! And hey, maybe the Rays will get back-to-back perfectos thrown at them - congrats, Mark Buehrle!
Rational, reasonable comments by people who aren’t spoiling for a fight are always welcome!
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I have no problem with the Jays dealing Doc, but I just wish it wasn’t J.P. pulling the string. I’m astounded this guy is still at the helm after all the bad contracts he’s thrown out, and the fact he hasn’t had a sniff of post-season in 8 years. I know you’re take on J.P. that he’s put together one of the best pitching staffs and a very good defensive unit, but that means squat when the team has never been close to the playoffs. I’m also perplexed at the amount you defend J.P., but that’ll be a comment for another day.
I read today that the Brewers are in the Halladay sweepstakes, and I thought that it would be great if Doc went to the team that employs the G.M. that originally drafted him. With all the talk in these parts of former Duck players coming to join Burkie, wouldn’t it be sweet if it worked the other way around, but I digress. My only concern is I’m not sure if the Brewers have enough assets to get him. After what happened with Sabbathia (sp) last year, do you think the Brewers would be willing to overspend on Doc?
MW: My “defending” of Ricciardi is in direct proportion to the poorly backed-up attacks on him. I don’t know that the Brewers can overpay for Halladay. Beyond Alcides Escobar and Mat Gamel, what’s there?
- BobbyHi Mike,
What a disturbing revelation about Roy’s refusal to discuss an extension.
I had posted back in March that I was perplexed by the fact that he hadn’t been extended back then. To me that was a “tell” that Roy and/or his agent wanted to see what was out there.
I understand that this will most likely be his last big contract but what of the huge risk that he blows out his elbow or shoulder between now and the 2010-2011 off-season, or if he (gasp) suffers a dip in performance? Roy risks having his market decline sharply should he get hurt, no? Look at Ben Sheets’ value now vs. what he would have received in an extension a year and a half ago. Erik Bedard also refused an extension with the Orioles two years ago and what’s he worth now?
I’m sure had Roy signed an extension the Jays would have made him the highest paid pitcher in baseball today and rewarded him for his good soldier below market salary the last few seasons. His agent Greg Landry probably would have basically gotten whatever he would have asked for.
Now, both Greg Landry and Roy will have to navigate through the next season and a half fully healthy (and fully effective) for Roy to even match what the Jays would offer him today. Any injury or dip in performance, or even a further decline in the overall MLB free agent market, will see Roy most certainly get less than he would now.
Seems like a big risk and roll of the dice to me. Maybe Landry can spend some of his commission in Vegas playing craps when he’s done gambling with Roy’s future.
Note to Landry: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.”
MW: If I were Halladay, I would test the market, too.
- JamieThe best move JP ever made hands-down, and there can be no debate here, was locking-up Roy Halladay through his “prime” years for below market value.
- JamieDo you think that if JP had said that Doc was “untouchable” (which any GM probably would think means “give us an awesome package”) it would have made a difference?
And did Beeston ever sit down and talk with Doc like he said he was going to?
I’ve got mixed emotions on this one. Good for Doc … but where are we going to be a year from now?
MW: I think most GMs think “untouchable” means “untouchable”. But I don’t think that messages sent through the media like that have all that much bearing. I don’t know if Beeston has had that sit-down with Halladay.
- ColinHold everything! Ken Rosenthal says the Rays might part with Kazmir to get one of the big names.
If I can get Kazmir and, for instance, Brignac and Jennings, for Doc - even if I have to help them with the cash - I’m all over that (given what JP told us today about Doc’s wanting to go FA)
We should have that done by Monday if it’s really true. That’s the best opportunity I’ve seen reported.
On another note - I am beginning to wonder, given what JP told you about his future this morning, if it isn’t possible that once Doc is gone and the retool is in progress, he might not go ahead and resign in October and (theoretically) pave the way for a hand-off to LaCava.
He seemed pretty cool to the idea of overseeing another rebuild, and he has to know that the sharks in the fan base would be incensed if he was kept on. If he’s really just content to go back to Boston (and bet your boots the Red Sox scoop him up to work in their organization) then where’s the upside, for him or for us, in sticking out the last year as a lame duck?
(I say this as someone who shares pretty much your view on the quality of his work)
MW: The story is that the Rays are looking to move Kazmir elsewhere to free up the money to deal for Halladay, not that they’re looking to trade Kazmir in a Halladay deal. Kazmir is only locked up through 2012, and seems very prone to injury, so I don’t know if he’s the right fit. I don’t see Ricciardi resigning before his contract is up.
- WillRainI just want to say that it’s nice to see someone report on Ricciardi’s comments about Halladay testing the market without trying to read between the lines of the GM’s comments and create some underlying agenda. I believe he (JP) was just calling a spade aspade, no malice intended.
It’s really a shame that some of the other writers and talk show hosts (no names mentioned) feel the need to constantly find fault in the Toronto teams their owners/GM’s and their players. I live in the NY area and listen mostly to the NY media, and they more often than not look for a positive spin on things. As a fan I would rather hear positive comments about the team I root for than constant negativity.
Keep up the good (honest) work!
MW: I don’t try to be positive, I just try to be honest.
- Steve from NJhello Mike, hope everything is well…a couple of things…I don’t know if you knew but Riccardi gave an interview to espn yesterday during the day that Halladay told the Jays he would test the free agent market after 2010. So, when he mentioned it on baseball today on the Fan yesterday it was the second time. So, not sure if you saw that interview.
Second, from the interview & comments by Riccardi, it seems he is waving the white flag, that he has given up & thinks he can’t compete with the AL East. I think this is really bad PR for the fan base now that Jays fans don’t think they have a chance. When Rogers was putting a lot money in the franchise, there was hope for optimism but as long as Rogers continue to have a 80 million payroll or less, I don’t think there is anyway the Jays will ever win the wild card spot unless they pull a Tampa & go 10 years or so of futility. So far, who ever is calling the shots, he has not added to the payroll. Just slashed it. I wonder with the passing of Ted this year, I don’t think who ever is calling the shots in terms of payroll, they are interested in putting up like a $120 million payroll that I think is needed to contend in this division. Granted, who ever the GM is, has to make the right baseball decisions. So, Mike I know you are going to be bias on this since Rogers is on your payroll but do you think in the Jays will put up that kind of of money in the payroll??…I know they are probably loosing money on the Jays, but they are doing really well on their other ventures to make up for the Jays losses.
Owners of sport franchises own them to be in the club sort to say, not to earn lots of money. If they make money out of it, that’s a bonus. I think if they break even, that’s all they ask for ’cause they’re already wealthy already from how they obtained the franchise to begin with.
MW: Why can’t anyone spell the word losing? I’m on the Rogers payroll, so if I suggest that they spend more on the Jays’ payroll it might come ot of my paycheque, but I honestly don’t believe there’s any reason why the ballclub shouldn’t be spending with the big boys. They have a whole country for a fan base and play in the 3rd biggest market in North America. I had heard that JP had mentioned the Halladay extension thing the day before, but I thought it was on the Jim Rome show.
- david FHi Mike,
When will the suffering end? All I want is someone who cares!
Godfrey signs Wells to a ludacris contract, then he’s gone.
JP trades away the best pitcher in the league, and then he’s gone.
Can we get someone in this front office who can be held accountable?
MW: J.P. is gone? He traded Roy Halladay? Is this comment from the future?
- jeffWow! Blows my mind that JP won’t give Ruiz even a sniff. And that it has taken so long to dump Dellucci, gives me even less faith in JP’s decision making.
Millar’s double and homer today guarantee Kevin at least another month to be best buds with Cito.
Inglett is hitting .380 … so we’ll see if Cito uses him more consistently than he did first time up, earlier this year.
P.S. - Vegas broadcaster Langer sounds quite good. Could be a good replacement for Jerry, when he decides to retire.
MW: I’m kinda hoping I might be considered to be Jerry’s replacement if he retires.
- Kelly PfeifferHey Mike,
As usual, love the blog, your doing a great job.
We all know that the Jays are really struggling to pick up hits with runners in scoring position, a problem that only seems to magnify considering they are very bad at moving runners over without needing a hit. We all know the importance of driving in the runner from third with less than two outs, but equally important is moving the runner from second to third with no outs. The Jays failed twice on Tuesday night (3rd and 4th innings) to follow a lead-off double with a ball hit to the right side to advance the runner, neither runner scored. Jays lose a one run game. This afternoon, it happened again twice… Wells couldn’t move Millar over in the 4th and Bautista couldn’t get Rios over in the 9th. Jays lose a one run game. The frustrating part is that the hitter’s don’t seem to be thinking ground ball to the right side… the are trying to drive the ball, and are hitting grounders to short popping up or fly balls to left. I’m all for driving the ball, but they aren’t getting hits with RISP… time to get back to the fundamentals. I’m not a fan of bunting with nobody out, which takes away the chance for a big inning. A ground ball to the right side is going to find it’s way through the hole or down the line on occasion. With all the one run games they are in, a couple of single run innings could be the difference.
Keep up the great job Mike. I look forward to your noon hour show everyday.
Kevin
MW: I appreciate that. That said, I don’t think a hitter should ever come to the plate attempting to hit a grounder to the right side.
- KevinMike,
I haven’t written to you much this year, but I was really thrown by your statement — admission? — that “there are 27 teams that have a better chance of making the playoffs than the Blue Jays do - every year.” Not that I disagree, but what exactly do you mean? Is that not a serious indictment of an organization which is located in the 4th largest city in North America? And, I’m curious, which are the 2 teams that have a poorer chance?
Cheers,
Alex
MW: Admission? What does that mean? The other two teams which don’t have less of a chance, but have the same potential chance, are the Orioles and Rays. I thought that was pretty obvious. It’s not an indictment at all, go back and read again.
- AlexGood day Mr. Wilner
Some thoughts for you
Let’s start with Marco Scutaro, He projecting to be a Type A free agent. Do the Jays have to offer him arbitration to get the 2 picks if he signs elsewhere? Would the jays offer him arbitration? would he accept?
If it looks reasonable likely that the Jays will get 2 picks if he walks, I don’t see them getting much more than that in a trade so I don’t see why he would be traded. In my opinion, Scutaro, who I love to watch and looks like a great guy, remains a career utility player having a career year in a contract year. I Think he will get more than he is worth as a free agent and I would not make a serious attempt to resign him.
I don’t understand Alex Rios trade speculation, I don’t think his contract is as horrible as some seem to think. He still has plenty of upside. He needs to mature and reduce the brain farts. I’d happily keep him and I’d love to see what he could do in center field on a regular basis.
Do you think that if Vernon Wells returns to form next year there could possibly be some takers at next years deadline? I Don’t think it’s that absurd of a thought and I definitely don’t package him in any prospective Halladay deal.
Overbay and Rolen, if they Jays don’t expect to contend in 2010 then I have no problem moving them now and getting a return, especially since Rolen is healthy and playing great this year.
Doc Halladay, I love the man, my favorite Toronto athlete of all time. I Remember watching that second start against Detroit 10 years ago. I’d hate to see him go. Since JP has said that Halladay plans to test free agency in 2010 now seems like the best time to trade him. The only player I’ve heard rumored that truly excites me is Clayton Kershaw but unfortunately I really can’t see the Dodgers giving that up. I Do trust JP, I Think he’s not as horrible as most seem to think and think he will make the right deal for this team.
If the Jays are trying to keep Snider from being arbitration eligible next year, which seem to be the case. How long does he have to stay in Vegas? I think Ruiz needs an extended shot at this level and I’d be interested in what Dopirek could do at this level. I Hope to see Ruiz soon and Dopirek at least in September.
If the jays do semi rebuild next year I don’t think Cito is the man for that job, However I see no possible way that Cito is not the manager next year.
Paul Beeston really needs to let it be known, what is going on with the presidency of this team and Rogers needs to let it be known how committed to this team they are going forward($$$). I expect statements to be made after the 31st, especially regarding payroll plans.
I Think we’re at the most important times in the Jays recent history and how this team looks on August 1st will give us great insight on what we can expect in 2010 and beyond.
I Love baseball and I love the Jays, I’ll be in NYC in August and am going to check out the new Yankee Stadium when the Jays are in town, I hope I don’t have to watch Halladay pitch against the Jays, that just might make me cry.
Thank you mike, that’s the longest blog post I have ever made. I hope my spelling and grammar give you no concerns.
Chris
MW: I don’t know that I can respond to the whole thing. If they can’t do better than two firsts, they’re unlikely to deal Scoot, but he might have an Orlando Cabrera-type problem finding a job over the winter because no team might want to pay that compensation. The Jays will likely offer him arbitration if he’s still here. Snider probably has to stay in Vegas another three weeks or so, maybe less. I doubt very much that Halladay will wind up a Yankee.
- Chris ThompsonNow Mike, I am a superstitious guy, so please find some wood to knock on as far as McGowan goes. I’m still hoping for a return of the “chops” at some point in the next year or two.
I agree with you that Halladay should at least dip a toe in the free agent waters, maybe even a foot. He has earned that and thensome. I’m a huge fan of his and feel like he’s a fellow blue-collar guy up for a new job.
Just a question for you:
Even if the Jays were able to commit finacially in the area of the Red Sox, Yankees and others, how far do you think the major league talent pool goes, and at what point does it get diluted as far as great players are concerened?
Thanks
MW: It’s a pretty deep pool, I don’t think that the Jays would have a hard time finding quality players if they upped the payroll.
- T.J.the fact that he took that 3-2 pitch makes me believe it was actually a ball
According to MLB.com gameday, it was a ball. Close, but a ball.
- Scott ShepherdThe comments from Halladay tell me he’s decided that there’s no chance the Jays are a playoff team in the near future (2-3 years), and doesn’t want to spend the rest of his career with a rebuilding team. Fair enough. Just please GOD don’t let him sign with the Red Sox or Yankees.
“So the Jays drop two of three to the worst team in the American League, and both losses are because of the failures of the defense. That’s new.”
Right. Although the Jays finding ways to lose games they could’ve/should’ve won is hardly new. Unfortunately.
Millar having a good game is probably bad in the long run, since in Cito’s eyes this’ll tide him over for the next month or so of horrible games.
So, when can Snider come up so he won’t be eligible for arbitration after 2010?
MW: See above.
- Flaming MoeMike,
Another year, another… (sigh)
Realistically, it would probably be a good idea to trade Halladay (and a bunch of others) at this juncture, when their value is its highest; I didn’t expect the Jays to contend this year, and I didn’t - and don’t - expect them to contend NEXT year, despite the 2010 ballyhoo. They’re not going to contend (much less win anything) with Doc, or without him.
Offensively, this is hardly a young up and coming team:
Lind and Hill: excellent years, and should have bright futures
Rios and Wells: have given up on both of them; as the supposed core of the offence they have failed miserably - but Wells in particluar is certainly going nowhere, and his presence will haunt the proceedings until his contract expires
Rolen and Overbay: both have contributed as much as might be expected (but they don’t compensate for the lack of production from Wells and Rios), and neither is likely going to be better next year
Scutaro and Barajas: both have done better than predicted, and should be commended - but, again, neither is likely to even be as good next year (I doubt if they will sign Scuataro)
DH: What DH?
The starters have been better than one could hope, but there’s nothing more problematical than young, fledgling pitching: Romero and Cecil MAY improve next year, or they could regress (and needless to add they’ll probably be on the disabled list at some point). The bullpen has lost some of its effectiveness, but it isn’t a weakness.
What does this all mean - if anything? The writing is on the wall: Doc surely recognizes that the Jays are likely going to be relegated to fourth place in the forseeable future, as Tampa Bay outdistances them with the kind of talent that J.P. never could manage to assemble. Worse things might be in store if the Orioles can EVER get their pitching straightened out (unlikely).
The rebuilding program will begin with a new GM saddled with three horrendous contacts (including B.J.’s) and a farm system that is ranked - so I’ve read - near the bottom of MLB, and is apparently lacking in position players of real promise. J.P. might tout all the young pitching he’s drafted, but are they REALLY that much better than other organizations, who no doubt make similar claims?
I guess the larger question is - as J.P.’s glorious reign thuds to an overdue end - will there be enough fans willing to support a “new” program, no matter WHO the next GM is?
MW: If they don’t, that’s on them, and it’s a shame. There is utility in having a major league baseball team in one’s city, even though most “fans” seem not to realize this. Giving up on Wells and Rios is a mistake.
- KenWhat stupid comments made by JP about Halladay today. Whatever happened to “behind closed doors”? I’m generally not a JP hater but this just seems like perhaps he is trying to paint Roy as the villian, so that if a trade goes through, he doesn’t get death threats from thousands of Jays fans. Apparantly, Halladay was really ticked off by the comments. I would be too, after he just got betrayed by the Blue Jays.
MW: I don’t think the Jays have betrayed Halladay at all, nor do I think that Ricciardi is trying to paint Roy as the villain, regardless of what Richard Griffin says. No matter how this plays out, J.P. will be seen as the bad guy.
- AlexIf Halladay gets booed tomorrow night (for wanting to test free agency), I will no longer be a Jays fan.
MW: I’m not sure there’s ever a scenario in which Roy Halladay gets booed.
- RMto say that I am the only negative person is ridiculous. almost every post is trashing JP, rios, wells, overbay etc. and a lot of my posts are factual statements. there were at least 2 other posters who brought up you trashing the rays so it’s not just me. you dont argue? perfect example. a poster stated the other day that halladay said he wouldn’t sign an extension to which you replied “he never said that”. now here you are admitting that he did say that. good grief!
MW: When did I say you were the only negative poster here? I wish!
- jacobyIt’s the right thing for everyone if Halladay leaves. He’ll get to pitch in the playoffs and we’ll get to improve our team beyond measure.
I hope.
So now please Jays front office, repeat after me:
Pitching is a lot but it isn’t everything.
- isabella reyesPitching is a lot but it isn’t everything.
Pitching is a lot but it isn’t everything.
carlos pena wasn’t luck. 2003-2005 he avg 20+ hr. he had an off year 2006 so tbay took a flyer. that’s what good gm’s do. they sign guys who have potential to a short term contract. just like hinske. JP sign’s old washed up 35 year olds like delucci, millar, mench, wilkerson who have no future whatsoever
MW: Carlos Pena was complete and total luck. They took a flier, for sure, but then they released him at the end of spring training. The next day, Greg Norton got hurt, so they called him back. Complete and total luck.
- mikoIn a previous comment, i referred to the Jay’s ownership as Roger’s when obviously it should have read Rogers..my reference to the Toronto Pirates was forshadowing not based on a historical comparison..the Wells contract on a team with an $80 million (or less) payroll = pending disaster..I’d give Doc away to the first team agreeing to pick up the Albatross (Wells) as part of the trade..
- craigMike…A lot of talk about Yankee Stadium being a haven for homers and the Yanks are padding their stats (and win total) by playing there 81 times… But by the same token Mike, isn’t there also 81 times for the visiting team to beat up on N.Y. via the home run route and pad their win totals?
MW: Yup. The Yankees do have the advantage of being able to load up on left-handed power hitters to take extra advantage, though.
- chris m.I’m going to the game tomorrow specifically to see Halladay, as I’m sure many other people will be too. I think it would be wonderful if everyone who is coming to support him were to have a sign saying “I’m here for Halladay”. Unfortunately, I don’t have the resources to print and hand out that many signs, but I’m hoping that maybe, just maybe, the FAN590 does. Would it be possible for you guys could print up signs (just on 8.5×11 pieces of paper) and hand them out at the gates tomorrow? I’d happily volunteer to help distribute them. You could even put your logo on it if you wanted to use this as a marketing opportunity. It would be an amazing way for us to tell him how much we appreciate having him here in this city.
MW: Sorry about that. Good idea, though.
- Christopher SeeNot sure if you saw Richard Griffin’s blog about JP’s comments (http://thestar.blogs.com/baseball/2009/07/jays-begin-pr-campaign-against-halladay.html)
Would you consider this an example of JP trying to tarnish Halladay’s image?
MW: Nope.
- EricMichael,
I don’t understand the whole Randy Ruiz situation. If they don’t think he can hit why did the acquire him?
JP takes chances on guys who can’t hit all the time. (Millar, Delluci, Wilkerson)
If I was Ruiz I’d be pretty miffed. What incentive does he have to keep putting up good numbers in the minors?
MW: 29 other teams, I guess. He’ll be a minor-league free agent after the season.
- Uncle BenHi Mike, Speaking of Mark Buehrle, have a question about perfect games. If a batter had reached base on a pass-ball strikeout would it still be considered a perfect game? Technically it’s not a hit or a walk, just curious.
MW: Nope. A perfect game is 27 up, 27 down. No hits, no walks, no reaching on an error, no nothing.
- gosteelerzHey Mike,
Haven’t commented on your blog in a while. Have been reading it though. It seems strange to me that J.P. would publicly state that Halladay would test free agent waters in 2010. Wouldn’t this take teams with large salaries and good prospects out of the pursuit for Halladay since they’ll be able to throw cash at him in 2010 rather than give up prospects?
Or, does telling everybody that Halladay wants to be a free agent in 2010 give the Jays a better chance of acquiring the prospects they want?
Thanks for clarifying,
Kevin
MW: It does neither, it’s simply the truth. If a team with a high payroll wants to wait until Halladay’s a free agent to try to sign him, then they’ll lose out on two potential playoff runs.
- KevinMike, why has there been no Wednesday’s with JP this year?
MW: He didn’t want to do it this year.
- jamieDon’t forget a few years ago McGowan was diagnosed with diabetes. If my memory serves me, it was one of the reasons he was granted a fourth option year. I’m really pulling for the guy, he can be a real thrill to watch.
- paulfHi Mike,
I’m back from Oz and going to the game Friday. What a bittersweet experience it might be eh?
I wonder when Roy decided in his mind that he was willing to move on from the Blue Jays. We’ll probably never know, but I wonder if it was something that was building over the last year or if it was triggered at a particular point this year.
Any inklings of this from your information sources?
MW: Not really.
- OzRobWatching the game at the dome yesterday with a buddy, I leaned over and said “how perfect is this, 2 out, runner on 3rd, a 1 run ball game, bottom of the 9th with 2 out, a 3-1 count with a fast ball coming right down the pipe and into Overbays’ wheel-house….and so it did!
However, before that pitch I also added, “it’s too bad Overbay is thinking walk”!
Hoping for the best but expecting the worst strike 2 was across the plate followed by strike 3 and game over.
There was a lot of negative words spoken amongst the fans where we were sitting. I was not surprised at the outcome, however dissapointed for sure.
Overbay is a pretty quiet guy, reminds me of a “farm boy” type. The only thing missing for Lyle in a situation like that is some aggression. He is just not aggressive enough in a situation like that. Given his risp numbers he was the perfect choice to put in there, he worked the count perfectly but not the perfect situation for him.
Lyle is a good player without a doubt and you can’t blame a guy for who he is or his make-up. Another game at another time within that game, Lyle would have belted out a double or triple without question.
Makes no sense to me Mike why JP would ever release that information as to Doc giving free agency a try after 2010! Seems to me that would be something between the two of them and the Blue Jay brass. Sure it may have eventually leaked out but why bother to bring it up now. If Doc is not traded before the deadline things could get messy and the focus next season will be question after question, rumour upon rumour as to where Doc is going. Not something either party needs! Tough and as focused as Doc is on game day and on the mound. This kind of attraction for a full season (if he is not traded this year)could potentialy lower his value in 2010.
I hope a lot of others like myself will head down to the Dome to watch Doc pitch on what could be his last home game as a Blue Jay. Oh ya, wouldn’t a no-no be something else!
Take care Mike and keep on doing what you do best.
Thank you.
- Bob from BurlingtonRoy is a spoiled brat. whoopdy do, we can live without the 20 wins he gives us. The more losses=better draft pick.
MW: Huh?
- Jason in TorontoHi Mike
After watching the horrible road trip going 0-9 and 2-8, and lately, and now the games againts cleveland, no wonder Halladay wants out.
As you said a few days ago, this 25 man roster is plainly not good enough to play againts the Yankees, Boston and Tampa Bay. Yes, they try their hardest but in the end, the talent is just not there. It doesn’t help when Rios and Wells are having sub-par years either….
MW: I don’t think I ever said that.
- francisTo the Toronto Blue Jays,
I have been a Jays fan since 1983, followed them thru good times and bad. If JP is allowed to trade the best pitcher in baseball, then from that moment on I will never watch, listen or see anymore Jays games, I have been going to games for almost 30 years, and I remember all of the good times, and bad, but never in Blue Jay history have we ever traded away our best pitcher whom we have delevoped at the prime of his career, he is the only sign of hope on this team.
There is not trade that you can make to equal what Roy Halladay is, it is all question marks.
No longer a fan of the Jays…….pretty soon there will not be a team in Toronto.
Thanks Rogers………….
MW: Why would you write this to me? I’m not the Blue Jays.
- JohnToo much myth surrounding Halladay, don’t you think?
Isn’t it true he rarely talks to the young pitchers ?
I do agree he has every right to go after the most money he can get
.I wish he wouldn’t be hypocritical about it though.
MW: I don’t think he’s being hypocritical, nor do I think that he’s going after money. Sure there’s too much myth surrounding Halladay, but it’s the same with any great athlete who hasn’t behaved badly.
- ChasI think it is almost a done deal that Roy is gone. Thus begins J.P’s public relations campaign trying to paint Roy as the one who wants out of town.
In fact, J.P and his inability to put together a team that can compete in the AL East is the reason that Roy wants out of town.
MW: That’s actually not a fact.
- Chris JonesI listened to alot of the game on the radio, and first, the radio coverage is way better than the TV coverage, so congratulations to your group of fine broadcasters.
With respect to Halladay, I wish him the best. No matter how well you pitch, your goal in life would be to get a win in the World Series and have one of those rings. That’s way more important than the loyalty towards a team. The team this year has had a myriad of issues and hasn’t been able to pull it together, whether it be lack of timely offense or a bout of bad defence (both losses caused by errors this series). It’s not Halladay’s fault that Litsch, Marcum, and McGowan are hurt.
I’m glad that Dellucci’s finally gone. I want to see Snider back… last year, it was funny to see someone with a Snider ball shirt (that he probably paid $150 for) his third game in.
- TimDoc wants to test free agency in 2010 and JP & the Blue Jays assume he won’t be back.
Bosh wants to test free agency in 2010 and Colangelo makes it very difficult by putting together on paper a deep and competitive team.
Kaberle is Leafs’ only elite player and Burke doesn’t bite in the name of youth movement.
As the sign said “Keep DOC!!! And Trade Ricciardi”
PS: At least keep Doc till end of season.
MW: The Raptors and Leafs compete in leagues that have salary caps, and Burke thought he had Kaberle traded at the draft. Otherwise, great arguments.
- SidMike,
Great to see your blog get pushed up to the top after the NHL draft + free agency stuff were finished.
I question J.P. giving full disclosure regarding Halladay’s refusal to sign an extension. Doesn’t that decrease his bargaining power, since other teams know that he’ll have to get rid of him (no way he’s gonna take the two picks).
btw, do you think you should’ve had a Stop the Presses special edition bloggage to celebrate Mark Buehrle’s perfect game? This kinda stuff only happens once every 5 years (on average).
MW: No Stop the Presses special edition bloggage on the perfect game because I wasn’t there, didn’t watch it, and it ended while I was already doing the Thursday bloggage. J.P.’s revelation doesn’t decrease his bargaining power at all - right now, anyway. It may decrease his bargaining power if he’s in this position again this time next year, but there will still always be multiple suitors for Halladay.
- James from MississaugaHi Mike,
Can’t J.P. just shut up! I have posted somewhat regularly over the last 2 years, and have always given him the benefit of the doubt, but this guy is way too loose-lipped (see Adam Dunn). It’s almost like he is saying “don’t blame me for the trade-talk, it’s Roy, not me.” Come on.
I think Paul Beeston should step up now and put an end to the Ricciardi era. And then like only Beeston can do, try to talk Halladay into signing an extension. He is a truly special athlete, and I don’t know that the Jays could ever get true equal value for him. If the Jays trade Halladay then they officially begin the rebuilding process. Do we want another 8 years of Ricciardi rebuilding?
I don’t.
Thanks as always
MW: You know that’s not going to happen. I continue to think it’s awesome that J.P. gets roasted by the fans for lying, and roasted equally by the fans for telling the truth.
- Rob H.Mike,
Given this morning’s story in the Globe that Halladay may have been irked slightly by Riccardi mentioning he’d test free agency (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/ricciardi-reacts-to-rift-rumours/article1229364/), and given the quote from Halladay in the article, I don’t think there’s any denying that Riccardi has absolutely bungled this whole situation. It’s infuriating to me, as a fan, to have to sit here and watch this whole mess get dragged through the media, simply because the Jays GM cannot keep his mouth shut or stories straight. He’s doing nothing but alienating his best player, driving down his value on the market, not to mention Jays fans.
I haven’t been one to say “Fire JP” in the past, but at this point I don’t know how the man can be responsible for such an important move for the franchise.
What an awful situation he’s put the Jays in.
MW: Halladay has a no-trade clause. If he doesn’t want to go, he won’t go. If he had told the Jays he would exercise his no-trade, there wouldn’t even be any trade discussions.
- KevinMW: It’s true. If the Blue Jays had been able to spend the money necessary to keep Delgado, and he had stayed, a new space-time continuum would have been created, and who knows what would have happened? The only thing we know for certain is that if Delgado was a Blue Jay right now, he’d be 38.
You are durned right that a different space-time continuum would have been created! Delgado was replaced by Glaus and Overpay which meant we gave up Hudson (to get Glaus), which was OK because we had Adams and Hill to play the infield…
But we shouldn’t blame JP. Remember this is his first GM job, and he was hired by a president who admitted he was really interested in NFL football.
Now I dare even you to defend this last display of GM savvy. By letting the world know Doc wants to go, JP has blown any chance of making a good trade. We don’t need to know him personally to realize what a disaster of a GM he is.
MW: I don’t understand why so many people believe that Ricciardi saying that Halladay won’t sign an extension has blown his chance of making a good trade. It’s a ridiculous assertion.
- Cito Man*28 teams if you count Tampa Bay.
MW: No. 27. Tampa Bay doesn’t count.
- JohnMike,
Unless it was common knowledge in Baseball that Doc wasn’t going to sign an extension with the Jays, then letting that info out of the bag was not a good idea. You want to improve your bargaining position as much as possible and now other teams know you have one less option open to you as far as the best pitcher in baseball is concerned.
No wonder Doc isn’t happy about it. Who knows, maybe Beeston mightve convinced him to sign on for another few years but JP’s disclosure means Doc is done in Toronto.
MW: Not true at all.
- marcAs a long time Blue Jays fan, the state of this team is disheartening. They played yesterday like a team that knows it will not play a “meaningful” game for years to come. How has the executive board allowed the Halladay fiasco to spiral out of control like it has. Can this GM not show some class and just get the trade completed with trying to drag Halladay’s name through the mud.
I am holding all fans that show up to a Blue Jays game accountable for this mess. Don’t show up, plain and simple. If you want something done about the state of this team, ignore them and force management to either get its act together or turn into the Pirates.
MW: Excellent idea. Move them to Portland!
- JonesOverbay’s AB in the ninth:
Pitch #1: Ball, but in the strike zone
Pitch #2: Called strike, in the strike zone
Pitches #3 & 4: Both outside balls
Pitch #5: Swinging Strike, but almost as far outside as pitch #4.
Pitch #6: Outside, but marginally closer than #5.
All six pitches were 4-seam fastballs and pitches 4-6 had nearly identical trajectories.
MW: Thanks.
- Alan the stat geekI have not be a ardent supporter of JP, but neither have I been a fan. I have generally thought that the good things he has done have outweighed the bad deals and moves.
Over the past 2-3 weeks, my opinion has swung more toward the negative on JP. I don’t know what his reputation is with other GMs, but my sense is that you simply don’t know what to believe of what he says. I think the way he has talked over the past 2-3 weeks about the Halladay situation has made a mess and has become a significant distraction and bordering on a public relations disaster. It has gotten to the point where I don’t trust him. If other GMs don’t trust him, then he won’t be able to get the best possible return for trading Roy. I don’t recall that any team has ever changed it’s GM near he trade deadline - please correct me if I’m wrong - but I think it is imperative for Beeston to step in before this becomes any worse.
MW: I haven’t heard of another GM in the league who doesn’t think Ricciardi is a good one.
- Alan the stat geekLooks like Riccardi is covering his butt now..He is the reason the Jays can’t compete with the big boys..
I don’t understand why he made this public..Why not keep it quiet out of respect for a guy like Halladay..He doesn’t want the distractions..He just wants to pitch…He is doing the organization a favor by allowing himself to be traded..
Can you blame him?..This team has been chasing its tail for 16 years..Riccardi has been promising for years things will get better and signs Frank Thomas to prove it..(insert laughter here)..
Riccardi as only Riccardi does, finds a way to look like the good guy..It isn’t my fault we have to trade Halladay..He wants out..I’m just doing my job..
The reason Hallday wants out is because he doesn’t know how to do his job..
MW: Sigh
- ray bHi Mike
I am a loyal Blue Jay fan and no fan of the WS but boy am I sorry I didn’t get to watch Marc’s perfect game.
I have a couple of questions about it however.
It looked like a fan (a WS fan) just about interfered with the Wise catch.
What would the result have been to the Perfect game?
Would that fan still be walking today?
Thanks for the good work Mike
MW: That would really have been something, huh?
- Richard from ARHi Mike,
I am starting to get really angrly with JP and to a certain extent Beeston. What ever happened to JP keeping his mouth shut and not giving any interviews? He is just trying to make himself look better complete by giving these random statements. Instead he looks like a jerk who has no tact at all (hardly surprising). Why are the Jays giving up on the 2010 plan? If the Jays had the quality pitching from last year (i.e. a rotation of Halladay, Marcum, Romero, etc.) and hitting from this year they would be at the top of the division. Why trade your best pitcher and your best chance to win for future success? I think the fans would rather see the Jays make the playoffs and lose Halladay in free agency, then get prospects and not make the playoffs at all. We as fans do not want to start antoher 5 year JP plan.
My real question though, is why has Beeston not fired JP yet? It is obvious that he will not be back and even more so, it seems that JP does not want to come back. Does this not hurt the franchise having a guy there that has no interest in the future of the team? I’m sure they could hire Tony LaCava or Alex Anthopoulos as interm GM and they would have more interest as they still have the chance to advance in the management system.
Finally, what is taking so long with hiring a new president? Is it that bad of a job to head the Blue Jays? This waiting means the whole team is in standby mode until the hiring is made.
MW: Your last statement is very true. Maybe the reason it’s taking so long is because Rogers wants Beeston to stay. JP hasn’t been fired yet because, believe it or not, he’s not doing a bad job.
- Andrew ClarkMichael,
The White Sox were interested in Peavy before. I have to guess they are kicking the tires on Halladay right now.
Would you do Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, and Gordon Beckham for Halladay?
That’s the same as the Peavy deal although I’m not sure Beckham was offered.
MW: No, I wouldn’t.
- Uncle BenTo further my previous comment,
can the Sox trade Beckham?
I heard that Backham cannot be included in any deal till mid August after the trading deadline; that they cannot trade him till at least a year after signing…a league rule.
Is this the case?
MW: A player can’t be traded until a year after he signs his first contract, but he can be moved in a pre-deadline deal as a player to be named later.
- Uncle BenHey Mike
Wow, Beane doesn’t mess around. He puts Holliday on the market and he is dealt a week later. I was actually hoping the Jays would end up dealing with the Cardinals as i would have loved to see Brett Wallace in a Toronto uniform. Lefty stick, with a high on base % and good power. Great move by Beane….acquire Holliday for the 2009 season, later realize the A’s won’t be a factor in the playoffs and deal him for a great bat they can control for years. No way Doc goes to St.Louis now, unless they part with Rasmus, but from what i have read that won’t happen.
MW: It doesn’t seem like it will. Holliday, by the way, has been on the block since mid-May.
- rickHi Mike,
- PaulI guess we cannot complain about bringing up Mighty Joe Inglett to replace Delucci.He has been on a tear in the PCL and he hit well for the Jays last year too.I still would have preferred the potential power of Randy Ruiz but it looks like you are right.The Jays brass don’t think he can hit in the majors.I hope he gets a shot somewhere soon.
I disagree with you Mike as I do not feel that the Jays are in a position of strength trading Roy.
Now that it is common knowledge that he will become a free agent all other teams know that Jays are desperate and have to trade him. Clearly they don’t have to trade him now but the clock is ticking because all other teams know that they will only have him until the end of next year and if the Jays make them wait until the offseason then clearly they will offer less then they would today since they will have less time with their new asset and one less penneant run.
Sure there may be some teams that can’t sign him until the end of the season, but he has a no trade clause and why would he want to go to Texas anythow? He wants to win, that is why he is leaving Toronto. He probably wants to get two shots at a ring before he sings for the 2011 season.
Now if the Jays had kept their mouth shut and lead other GMs to think that Halliday was NOT on the market then just maybe they could have gotten more when they got the other GM to say they wanted Roy.
Let another GM say to the Jays that if we want to get Bill and Ted then we will have to give up Roy. Then we can tell them Roy is out of the question, as he has a no trade clause and we dont want to trade him anyway. When they push then JP could have said ok we will talk to Roy but don’t hold your breath.
That would have been the way to get another GM to overpay. Now the Jays are stuck between a rock and a hard place as Roy is no value to us this year, and probably no value next year.
Truth is, we finished out of the playoff with him so we can finish out of the playoffs without him just as easy.
MW: It’s not fantasy baseball.
- WayneHi Mike,
Here’s a thought for you.
Jays trade Halladay for a bunch of fantastic players and picks, then in 2011 they resign Halladay. The said money wasn’t an issue to resign him.
Then with the core we have now, the players we got for Doc and him coming back we win the World Series!
So simple! Tell J.P the bill is in the mail for my services.
MW: Except that you’re about the 5th commenter to suggest it.
- Brianwhat will th jays get if they trade scutaro? rolen? and will they re-sign marco when hes a fa after he gets traded?
MW: I don’t know. And I doubt it.
- mikeI am glad to hear that Roy will at least test the free agent market before listening to an offer from the Jays. I don’t think it is bad news and probably could have been left unsaid by JP. But since it’s out there, I think this is good news for two reasons. First JP has shown ability to pay too much for a player on an early signing (even though you can argue Doc is worth whatever he asks). Secondly I beleive Beeston when he said last Friday on Prime Time Sports that money will not be an object, so if the Jays are serious about keeping Doc after 2010 then the free agent offers will at least set the bar for the terms Doc will request to stay a Jay. I’m sure Doc won’t give another home discount to the Jays but he might take less term (with a BJ Burnett out clause) as long as the Jays match the $$. Roll the tape - Beeston says money won’t be an object.
What I am really worried about is that JP will make a bad deal in the next week, for the sake of making a deal. Now that other GM’s are making deals, I’m worried JP will get his pocket picked and try to sell us on a poor package. I really hope I’m wrong.
MW: I don’t think that will happen.
- Rez“silly rule that doesn’t allow an official scorer to assume a double play”
seriously…
isn’t every error the result of the scorer assuming an out would’ve been recorded? so it’s THAT much of a stretch to think that they’d have recorded a routine 2nd out?
i’ve never understood this, and was actually going to write in asking about it a while ago, but forgot…now i know that you would’ve have had an answer for me either…
- Jay BHello Mike…..my friend made up this joke and I thought I’d share it with the fans….you may not find it funny, but its not “irrational or unreasonable”
Alex Rios, after being hit in the head by a Kerry Wood pitch last game is attended to by trainer George Poulis…..
Poulis: Alex…..are you Ok? How many outs are there?
Rios: I have no idea…
Poulis: Ok, you’re fine.
c’mon…..just a little funny?
MW: Yeah, that’s a little funny.
- samMike, unless Roy is worth just a ton more with a year and a half left on his contract than next year with +/- a half (I assume that’s the case?) let’s just hang onto him and deal him next year; way before the trade deadline if we’re out of it early again.
Then we can dream of re signing Doc to play alongside whatever great return he garnered. There would be more of a chance with a better team, no?
Regardless, he’ll reain the best Jay ever to don the uniform im my eyes - because character counts for something.
- GaryJays management has to realize that they’re not going to be moved into the AL Central, and there’s no balanced schedule. You’re in the toughest division in baseball, so, if baseball is going to have a future in Toronto, Rogers has to pony up the cash to play with the Big Boys. The alternative is declining attendance until finally the team relocates-it happened before. It’s not new, Toronto baseball fans will not support a losing team when there’s no hope for the future. And, given the economics of the Big Bad East, without this commitment, there’s no future.
MW: It has happened before. Once in the last 40 or so years.
- Richard Hennesseydo you believe that jp will reload as he said in your interview for next year in order to convince halladay will stay? and if offseason starts today what do you do? try to contend or re-build? do you believe that roy told jp out of nowhere that he is going to test fa? i dont blieve it really… its so contradictory to who roy is from what i can hear and see!
from where do you get all your baseball propects info?
MW: I don’t believe Halladay told them out of nowhere. I believe he was asked and he answered truthfully. I doubt very much the Jays are going to try to re-load this off-season if there’s no trade. I get my info from a lot of sources - good websites, scouts, lots of places.
- mikeYou know what I’d like to see? The Jays ‘load’ up and actually go for it next year.
I was disappointed two seasons ago, when a good bat wasn’t added to help the great pitching. I’m disappointed this season, with the Jays not trying to capitalize on their hot start, by adding hitting. C’mon Jays, add some sticks already!!
From what I see, there is good hitting at LF, 3B, SS, 2B and 1B. There is poor hitting at CF, RF, C and DH (which is inexcusable, btw).
I don’t think Ricciardi can do much with CF and RF, but he can upgrade at the other two spots. I’d like to see JP make some offers to Cleveland for Victor Martinez. There is a surplus of young pitching…..send one of them! Send two!! All Cleveland has to do, first, is exercise the club option for 2010. Which is only $7 million. I think the Jays can afford this. The Jays would only add $4ish million, once Barajas was gone.
Then, test Snider in the bigs for the rest of the year. If he’s good, the DH problem is solved. If not, spend the off-season filling that hole……legitimately! No more experiments, no over-the-hill guys, no wait-and-see, no platoon. Get the best $5-7 million dollar guy you can find (Hank Blalock perhaps? Jayson Werth?), plug him in there and go for it!!
If it’s not working by July 2010, then blow all the vets out. Their contracts are expiring anyways. Get some kids, and go young.
It really seems simple & logical to me. Whaddya think?
MW: I like it - depending on what Vic costs, of course.
- RomeMike tonight is not a time to argue or debate. Tonight is to pay hommage to the best pitcher the Blue Jays have ever seen…Roy Halladay. With the news that he will pursue free agency after 2010 (as he has every right to) I feel he will be traded any day now. As good a pitcher as he is, and he is the best..I get the feeling that he’s a better person. I would like you to say thank you to Roy, not only for me but for all Jays fans across this country. He deserves a shot at the brass ring….here’s hoping that JP’s LAST act can make that happen!! Thanks Roy!! you will be missed.
MW: No time to argue or debate, but time to get in a shot at JP, huh?
- Blair MartinThis GM is an absolute embarrassment. What will it take before he gets fired?
MW: I don’t know. Maybe him putting together a bad team.
- BobbyGotta think that Looch makes the 10th inning catch in left field that Inglett flubbed, not to mention Vernon from a few seasons ago.
MW: Not sure why you’d think that.
- alexWilner,
Final game for Doc or not, I hear you rip the fans for not showing up. I think you need to pay for your own seats and the concessions to a sporting event before you start talking about what the fans should and should not do with their hard earned money. In case you haven’t noticed, we are currently in a recession and the last thing you should be advising people who are in financial trouble is to be spending money on entertainment. At the end of the day, fans can watch the game on tv or listen to it on it the radio and still support.
MW: You don’t think that, if I didn’t have this job, I wouldn’t have paid nine bucks to come out and see Halladay tonight? Come on. Going to a movie is more expensive than going to a Blue Jays game.
- BobbyThis team doesn’t deserve Roy Halladay - blow the whole bloody thing up. I’d rather suffer through a few years of really lousy baseball than this slow motion train wreck.
Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Washington/Montreal and Toronto - the only teams that have not made the playoffs since the advent of the wild card. Ricciardi hasn’t done a bad job but he hasn’t done a particularly good job either. If the goal is to make the post season then J.P. has had his chance. It’s time to make a change.
- Rob TheriaultI’m mostly a ‘JP defender’ if such a term may be used, as I think he gets a raw deal by some media and fans. Having said that, I’m not sure what to make of what’s been happening the last two days in terms of his comments regarding doc. Is this all being blown way out of proportion, or am I misreading it all somehow?
MW: JP can’t win with most of the fans and a large portion of the media no matter what he says or does.
- BrentMike,
So according to the blogger
Mike from Thorold the Halladay deal to Philly will return all of Drabek,Taylor,Brown and Happ?
Do you believe this to be true?
MW: Is Mike from Thorold a member of the Jays’ or Phillies’ front office? I don’t know where he’s getting his information. That’s a trade I think the Jays would do, though, but I’d be very surprised if the Phillies would.
- MarkMike,
I think you’re living in a broadcaster’s bubble when you accuse the fans — “indictment” was your word — of not living up to some sort of utopian expectations about appreciating that the Jays have had a “winning record and best defence, etc.” for the last 4 years. You have every right to be disappointed by aimless critics on your talk show and on your blog, but you are engaged in self-delusion if you think there is something wrong in the fact that Torontonians don’t want to support this team. The word “indictment” that you used is right, except that it’s not the fans who are being indicted but, in fact, they are the ones doing the indicting — of this team and, more important, of this organization — by not coming. These are not Leaf fans who will fill out any arena to watch whatever dreck is tossed at them. Jays fans are simply fed up. They want a winner, not a “winning record,” and you know the difference. And the arrogance of the gentleman whom you like to defend from time to time is not exactly a ticket seller. Arrogance is fine when you are great, but a real turnoff when you’re a mediocre huckster, and fans feel that instinctively. It was a breath of fresh air to hear Bob McCowan’s “Emperor Has No Clothes” rant this afternoon.
It might be disappointing that “only” 24,000 fans came to see what might be Roy Halladay’s last game, but don’t forget that 50,000 fans used to come to the same stadium to watch Huck Flener pitch in meaningless games 15 years ago. I would suggest that you get off the fans’ backs and instead try to understand the message they’re sending to the people who own this team. Self-denial won’t bring anyone to the ballpark. Or as Yogi Berra once said, if fans don’t want to come to the ballpark, you can’t stop them.
One last thing about your collective indictment: let me plead guilty as charged. I used to go to 10-15 games a season back then. There is no chance in hell that I would spend so much as a penny to watch this particular team.
MW: That’s your choice. It’s not a good one, because they play pretty entertaining baseball on a regular basis, but that’s your choice. Fans who only support a winner are not fans.
- Alex23k at a halladay finale vs. the al champs in mid july…this team is cooked! expect 15 k tomorrow if you are lucky
- joiMike,
As I’m driving home from the game tonight I hear you say that the turnout tonight is and “indictment” of this city. Ridiculous. You are acting like we owe it to Halladay or the Blue Jays to show up? I have to agree with all of the commenters that resent your attitude here. I am sorry we disappointed you. It’s probably easy to say that type of thing from your vantage point. You are getting paid to be there. Do I think you would be there if you didn’t do it for a job? Maybe you would. Are you representative of the average Torontonian? Don’t you think that maybe you love baseball more than most people. Maybe you would be laid off, maybe you would be at the movies with your family, maybe you’d be at the cottage listening on the radio.
MW: Maybe I’d be all those things, but there are still, what, 7 million people within an hour’s drive of Rogers Centre?
- Kenmike, the only reason and I mean ONLY reason that JP hasn’t been fired is because beeston wants the NEW president to make that decision not him. If he had hired a new pres last offseason then chances are that JP would be gone by now.
have you ever heard of a gm having a 90% disapproval rating? (according to the pole)
MW: It was a POLL. And it was hardly a scientific one, as stated before. And once again - it doesn’t matter what the fans think of the GM. If you listen to the fans, you’ll soon wind up sitting with them.
- jacobyWent to the game tonight. Some observations:
1) Doc. What can you say about him? Best Blue Jays ever.
2) The offense. Garza is a Blue Jays killer but it was an awful showing as usual lately.
3) The vitriol spewed at Wells and Rios tonight was palpable. In the 10th inning especially, I have never heard such offensive language+hatred from fans before.
4) I sat above the Rays bullpen and there were Rays relievers throwing food and drinks at fans (hecklers) during the game. That’s pretty shady even if like mentioned earlier - there are a lot of drunk buffoons out there.
- RenegadeMW: That’s your choice. It’s not a good one, because they play pretty entertaining baseball on a regular basis, but that’s your choice. Fans who only support a winner are not fans.
Perhaps it makes you feel good to insult me (and others who remain FANS but simply don’t want to spend money on a product they don’t believe in), but even if were right, how does that help the situation? According to your “indictment,” there is a problem with attendance, and that problem exists because there aren’t enough of those whom you call REAL fans. Insulting us or ignoring this problem won’t make it go away.
MW: I didn’t see an insult in there anywhere.
- AlexMW: Carlos Pena was complete and total luck. They took a flier, for sure, but then they released him at the end of spring training. The next day, Greg Norton got hurt, so they called him back. Complete and total luck.
I am amazed at how perfect your memory is of some obsure moment that happened years ago.
MW: It didn’t wind up so obscure when the guy hit 46 homers that year.
- jacobyMW: It was a POLL. And it was hardly a scientific one, as stated before. And once again - it doesn’t matter what the fans think of the GM. If you listen to the fans, you’ll soon wind up sitting with them
I think it does matter to rogers. If the fans dont like the team or the gm then they’ll stop going to games and stop subscribing to rogers cable. rogers is in a marketing business. they are trying to sell baseball to people and that involves public perception. it’s a tough sell if the fans don’t believe in the gm and the media keeps trashing him on a daily basis.
MW: We disagree.
- jacobyMike
I find it very insulting as a fan to try to talk about true fans going 2 games and such
i feel that i am a true fan however until the “idiot Gm” as Bobby McGowan calls him is fired i cannot spend my money specificially on the blue jays …. paying to heckle A-Roid is different
also, i heard Bobcat call Rios dumb not only in baseball sense, but also in real life situations, what have your experiences been with him, and why does he kinda suck now… effort or intelligence as Bob McGowan said
MW: I’m surprised Bob would say that, because I don’t know that he’s ever met Alex. I wouldn’t call Rios dumb, but I don’t know him well enough to make that determination.
- DanielMW: Going to a movie is more expensive than going to a Blue Jays game.
But cheaper than going to a Blue Jays game is going to the Beaches Jazz Festival, which is on this weekend. I was down there tonight myself, and I dare say, ALOT of others had the same idea. Can’t beat free entertainment during a recession, Mikey!
MW: Fair enough.
- Colin F“that’s what good gm’s do. they sign guys who have potential to a short term contract. just like hinske. JP sign’s old washed up 35 year olds like …mench”
2008 was the age 30 season for both Mench and Hinske.
In the previous season Mench had a .746 OPS and 90 OPS+ while Hinske had a .714 and an 83.
take a three year sample and it looks like this:
Mench: .764, 95
Hinske: .776, 101
Take a five year sample and it’s
Mench: .795, 101
Hinske: .748, 93
There is no significant difference in those players except which side they hit from. Anyone who calls signing Hinske smart and signing Mench dumb based on what was known of each player in March of 2008 is either (a) ignorant of the facts; (b) hopelessly biased; or (c) willfully lying to themselves - or some combination of the three.
THAT is why you call these things LUCK. Because there’s no rational way to know Hinske will be productive and Mench will suck on ice at that point.
By all means, bash the Wilkerson acquisition, or Dellucci…there is ammunition out there.
But citing Hinske while trashing Mench is just hindsight.
- WillRainIf you go to the game you have rush home to be try to be there by 7, fight traffic and get home with kids and go right to bed to start another day. It just isn’t always easy, convenient or worth the bucks to go to one of these games.
There may be other gimmicks to increase attendance. Maybe they could eliminate that foghorn after home runs and bring back B.J. Birdie. After home runs he could smash a certain hotel chains sign to pieces with a sledge hammer. They could even let some lucky fans do it. I guarantee you attendance would go up and those people would be happier radio listeners as well!
MW: I miss the free breakfast and internets. You’re right - it isn’t always easy or convenient to go to a game, but the special ones are worth making the effort.
- Rob MMike, a quick “history” question, if I may: I have recently heard at least two comments (one was Bob McCown) that mentioned “Roy has never had arm problems”.
However, I seem to recall a few years back when he was “shut down” in mid-August or so because of “a tired arm” — not sure if he went on the DL or not.
If my memory is correct, would this not qualify as “arm problems” (albeit perhaps not serious)?
MW: Halladay missed almost half a season in 2004 with shoulder fatigue.
- NormIn today’s Star this was reported: (not by Richard Griffin)
“On Thursday, Ricciardi said the idea of trading Halladay came up only after the pitcher told him he planned to test the free agent market when his contract runs out in 2010, but last night Halladay said it didn’t quite happen that way.
Instead of signing an extension or looking for a trade this year, Halladay said he told the team that he would rather play out his contract before deciding whether to stay in Toronto – a strong possibility, he now says – or sign elsewhere.”
Could you comment on this statement please? It contradicts what Ricciardi said on your show.
MW: I didn’t hear him say “strong possibility” that he stays. That statement doesn’t contradict at all what Ricciardi said - or at least not much. When Halladay says he wants to wait until after 2010 to make up his mind, it’s easy for the Jays to see that as him saying that he wants to wait until his contract is done and he’s a free agent to talk about it. That’s too late for the Jays. Don’t forget, too - Halladay still can’t be traded without his permission.
- isabella reyes