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5:15 PM Eastern
If this was Roy Halladay’s final game in a Blue Jays uniform (and I doubt it was), he went out in about as brilliant a fashion as one can, throwing a complete-game, dominating the Red Sox with a walk-free six-hitter. It was vintage Halladay, and it was pretty emotional from this end – unexpectedly so.
I didn’t come into today’s game thinking that it would feel any differently than any other Roy Halladay start, but it really did, and it might be because of how well Halladay pitched. It was as though he realized that this might be his last chance to perform as a Blue Jay in Toronto, and if it’s even possible for him, he reached back for even more than he usually brings.
As he neared the dugout after the game was over, Halladay doffed his cap and gave the crowd a big wave, and he did so again after he finished up a post-game, on-field interview with Sam Cosentino.
As I said, I don’t think this was Doc’s last start as a Blue Jay. I’d be surprised if he were traded tomorrow, or before his next home start on Friday night, but there were plenty of scouts here and the major suitors might be starting to realize that any extra starts they get from Doc between now and July 31st are really worth having. It seems as though the Brewers, Phillies and Red Sox are in on Halladay the hardest, and they’ve all got enough to get him – it just comes down to who is willing to pony up the package of players that would get the Blue Jays to pull the trigger.
Roy’s wife Brandi was up here in the broadcast booth yesterday and today, and I made sure to tell her how sweet it would be – should the Halladays leave Toronto either this year or next - if Roy came back at the end of the line, after that contract he’ll sign post-2010, to finish up his great career as a Blue Jay. She thought that was a great idea.
Here’s today’s edition of The JaysTalk – a good, long one – for your listening pleasure:
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And just for the heck of it, here’s yesterday’s edition of The JaysTalk – also for your listening pleasure:
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As for the offense today, how about The Captain going 2-for-2 with a couple of loopers to shallow left to snap out of an 0-for-20 slump, driving in all three runs. And dig Lyle Overbay, with a double and a walk and two runs scored – he’s 6-for-11 since the break. But who’s kidding who, today was all about Roy Halladay. Hopefully, Friday will be, too.
Tomorrow is an off-day, so you’ll hear Roger Lajoie on Baseball Today, but I’ll be back with that show on Tuesday and then we’ll all be back here that night for a battle of lefties – Brett Cecil takes on Cliff Lee and we go to air at 7:00 PM Eastern. Hopefully, I won’t be doing any bloggage between now and then, because if I do, I’m pretty sure it would be to break down a Roy Halladay trade.
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
95 Responses to “Tour De Force”
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Michael,
If you break down the AL East based upon how much each team is paying per win, it would shake down as:
Tampa
Baltimore
Toronto
Boston
New York
Right now the O’s have a fairly paltry 67 millon dollar payroll. In the past Angelos hasn’t been shy about spending to win, and they seem to have decent foundation.
Do you think the O’s are poised to start spending again this off-season? They have a beautiful ballpark and a good fan base so I can’t imagine they are going to be content to be cellar dwellers anymore.
MW: Why would that change now? They’ve been also-rans for a dozen years, even though they’ve spent the vast majority of that time in 4th place as opposed to the cellar. The Orioles are developing some very, very good young players, some of whom are in the bigs and more of whom are close. If they’re planning on opening the purse strings, it probably happens a couple of years down the road, but you never know.
- Uncle BenCouple questions:
1) I`ve often wondered why Halladay couldn`t be traded now and then re-sign here after the 2010 season when he is a free agent. After all, he isn`t agreeing to sign an extension if he is traded. Could he not just come back here as a FA in 1.5 years.
2) Why are kevin millar and dellucci on this team. Honestly, there is no excuse for this.
MW: Yes, he could. 2 – Millar is here for his clubhousey clubhouseness, Dellucci because for some reason they don’t want to call up either Travis Snider or Randy Ruiz. That could change very, very soon.
- ChrisVintage Roy Halladay today, a thing of beauty. But evne his wife seems resigned to them leaving this year.
It’s simply a matter of whether someone from a team that Roy will agree to, meets JP’s price.
What are the odds of the Jays trading Roy and resigning him after the current contract runs out with a few better players that he garnered, to come back to???
MW: I’d say not great.
- GaryI also talked with Brandi Halladay today. What a wonderful and real person she seems to be. She didn’t mind taking the time to discuss the potential trade situation, and she even initiated very much of the conversation. She told me that it was entirely up to Rogers if Roy stays or goes. She says there is also no way Roy would ever ask for a trade because he and she feel tha honouring a contract is very important to them. Roy would love to win in Toronto. She also said that J.P. had discussed with the Halladay’s what would be said before the all star game reguarding the situation and so anyone thinking that Roy has initiated any of this by asking behind closed doors for a trade, is out to lunch. When our conversation was over, i thanked her for her time and walked away. She called me back and said “keep your fingers crossed for us, we want to stay”.
Could you please tellme what took part in around the 7th inning when Rios had apparently stole 2nd, and was sent back to first? I was at the game and so I never got an expaination on that play. A guy beside me, a Boston fan, said the pitch hit Millars bat before it was caught by the “captain” and Rios couldn’t advance because it was a foul ball. I told him that if that was the case, Rios could advance because the play is live when a foul tip goes directly into the glove of the catcher. He completely disagreed with me so I let it go. I am positive in fastball that’s the way the rules are and I assume it’s the same for hardball. Am I right in my assumption?
MW: Yes, you are. The reason that Rios was called back was because the home plate ump interfered with Varitek’s ability to throw to second.
- Dan from ElmvaleMichael,
The other three major sports leagues (NBA, NFL, NHL) have a salary cap system. Why doesn’t MLB?
Is this something Bud Selig would want? Is the MLBPA the main obstacle?
MW: Yes and yes.
- Uncle BenMike,
I’d like to think Halladay probably has about 10 years of ball left in him. It was great for you to mention for him to come back here and finish his career. If he is traded, then you know that Toronto will be getting some good players back in return. Hopefully they can use them as well as some of the young guys already here to turn things around. Maybe this team will be contending with the players recieved for him when his next contract runs out probably in 6 or 7 years.
MW: If it takes that long, then the Jays won’t have made the right deal.
- DennyHalladay is a great pitcher, potentially Hall of Fame calibre. The Blue Jays’ problem is that their payroll is out of control because of the Rios and Wells’ contracts. If they were performing up to their contracts, the problem wouldn’t be so glaring. This, combined with the intense ‘dislike’ of Ricciardi by most fans has created an intolerable situation. J.P. can’t win, no matter what he does. He created most of his problems. Remember, he is the same person who criticised Gord Ash for the Delgado contract. Trade Hallady, he will be vilified. Don’t trade him and he will criticised for that. Personally, I feel that the best thing for the Jays to do is trade Hallady and Wells (package deal) to the Yankees for Montero and Jackson (2 prospects). This would give the team greater financial flexibility. I am not certain New York would do it, but it would get the Jays out of their fiscal dilemna. They might only because it might enable them to win the series this year. Remember the Twins only got Carlos Gomez for Johan Santana. None of the other players have ‘panned out’. There is no ‘pot of gold’ out there for a Halladay trade. He is, after all 32.
By the way I am a diehard Red Sox fan and don’t believe that they have any interest in Hallady. Bard and Buchholz, are far to valuable, financially, and talent wise, to be traded for a high end player with a diminishing value.
MW: Halladay doesn’t have diminishing value for the next year and a half, and I can guarantee you that the Red Sox are very, very interested in acquiring him.
- BrianHey Mike, I haven’t posted here in quite some time, but I have a comment/question for you. First of all let me say, unfortunatley I do agree that it is in the Jays best interest to trade Halladay right now, the amount of prospects we will get in return will be enormous. But here is what I don’t understand. Before the season began JP and Cito were telling every reporter and tv camera that would listen that this year was a rebuilding year with the hopes of making the big push in 2010, this completely killed any expectations anyone had for the team to the point that had the Jays finished 4th or 5th in the division few would have been surprised, then the team did the unthinkable and came out of the gates flying, only to get everyone’s hopes up before coming back down to the level that was expected before the season began. What I don’t understand is if Jays management was predicting this year as a write-off and next year was going to be “our year” clearly trading our best player couldn’t have been part of the “contending in 2010″ plan. So if you think about it, at the all-star break we are right where many of us expected us to be before the season began when we were told we would be contenders next year, and now we’re going to go and start all over again! Does JP really have no plan for this team? It’s sure starting to seem like it to me.
MW: It’s confusing, but I really think that the perceived change in the front office is because of the failures of B.J. Ryan and Vernon Wells and the lack of progression of Alex Rios and Travis Snider. Had those four players performed to expectations this season, then the Jays would have thought of themselves as contenders next year with this line-up and a healthy Marcum. McGowan’s problems rehabbing have something to do with it, too. If I’m right, it’s pretty shortsighted, because I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that this is the new benchmark for Wells and Rios, or that Snider won’t come up the last two months and be very good, and be very good again next year.
- KyleMW: 1 – Remembering that it’s their scouting staffs doing the drafting and not the individuals themselves, it’s an impossible question to answer at this stage of the game. But as Ricciardi has blown a first-rounder on Russ Adams and second-rounders on Josh Banks and Curtis Thigpen, Epstein blew first-rounders on David Murphy, Matt Murton and Craig Hansen and second-rounders on Abe Alvarez, Mickey Hall and Jon Egan. 2 – Epstein has had much more money to spend. 3 – Without looking it up, I’m assuming that would be JP’s.
- jacoby
not the individuals themselves
not the individuals themselves
not the individuals themselves
I’ll try to remember that the next time you keep praising JP on how many great pitchers he drafted.
MW: OK
- jacobyHello Mike. Would you trade Halladay for Happ, Drabek and Mayberry from the Phillies? We would get a proven starter. Drabek could be a start next season. Mayberry has some potential and would look good playing for Toronto where his father played? If not Mayberry maybe the Phillies have one other young good bat in the minors?
MW: I wouldn’t make that trade, it’s not enough. And Happ certainly isn’t a proven starter.
- Terrence SoltysHi Mike
I sure hope Halladay isn’t traded. At some level it may make some sense but it’s a bad move to trade the best, or one of the best, pitchers in the game. I wouldn’t trade Doc unless he has clearly indicated that he will not resign with the Jays after next year. A big effort should be made to sign him to an extension now and end the speculation but it doesn’t look like that’s in the cards.
Despite being a big Paul Beeston admirer, I think his foot-dragging on either committing to becoming the full-time president or finding a new one is hurting the Jays. They need to get a full-time president, commit to, or replace, the general manager and figure out whether they can contend with a few extra pieces or need a complete overhaul.
Rogers should step-up and invest the money necessary to get the Jays back to the elite level of MLB. The Jays market may not compare to that of the Yankees – no other market does – but there is no reason that the Jays shouldn’t be at the next rung down – with Boston and other top tier teams.
Don’t give up – keep Halladay!
MW: Well said.
- Senior FelixYour response to comment 8 sounds like another excuse..I’ve read your blog for a year and you’ve always preached patience…So now half a season determines what to do for next year?..So Wells and Rios bat .300+ for the last half of the season and the so called plan changes again?…
Here is the definition of a Plan..
a scheme or method of acting, doing, proceeding, making, etc., developed in advance: battle plans..
Sorry to say it Mike…Riccardi has no plan..
MW: Of course he has a plan – it’s to build a winning team. But my response to that comment was my speculation as to what the front office might be thinking – not what I think should be done.
- ray bI can’t believe you said that not trading Burnett last year was a mistake. This time last year you agreed totaly with JP that the two first rounders was better then trading for a prospects. We are years into JPs regime and no more a playoff contender then when Ash was here, Everyone complains about ashe’s mistakes yet JP has made as many if not more. I have the feeling Halladay wants out, lost faith in the direction of this team. If halladay leaves this should be the final year of JP, he sold the fans and Halladay a dream that never materialized.
MW: He certainly did sell a dream that never materialized, but was the result really within his (or anyone’s) control? I did agree that holding onto Burnett for the two first-rounders was better than trading him for less than that value, but as it turned out, they didn’t get two first-rounders for him.
- jason c wI was at the game today. Never gone to a Halladay start before, so I wanted to get one in before there might not be any more. If that was the last one, it was a great way to go out. Doc is the best.
Kevin Millar. How much longer do we have to put up with his “hitting”?
MW: Seems like at least for a while longer.
- Flaming MoeHi Mike:
I for one would really regret it in more ways than one if the Jays traded Halliday. One is he’s probably the best pitcher in Jays history, and secondly he’s such a class guy. The work he and his wife do in the communitycan’t be matched and would be sorely missed, especially the underprivilaged kids. Will the Jays pick that slack up?
Also, on the Sunday game of the week I heard the comment that the Jays had to get rid of Halliday, even if they don’t get value for him. Your comments please.
MW: I think that’s a ridiculous assertion, and whoever said it clearly hasn’t done his homework. Also, it’s HallAday.
- keithI watched the game today on television, and was completly lost in the experiance. Classic Doc. Some good defensive plays, a little controversy form the frustrated Red Sox players, and some timely hitting. I love watching these types games.
It does seem to me that every time, (and not just in the Jays case, but the Raptors as well) a Toronto sports team other than the Leafs gets a great player, someone not in the organization and dare I say, a little envious, writes some crap article putting words in someone’s mouth making a mess that screws with the fans, the team and most importantly, the players.
The Raptors are dealing with the same situation with Chris Bosh, and have before with both Carter and McGrady, with awful results both times due to a poor decision made by a lacklustre GM.
The jays get stuck with this everytime they have someone worth having. Someone says “Wow, that guy can really play. When are you gonna trade him?”
What really bites for us fans, is that the players end up being traded or are allowed to walk.
I’ve been a fan of Blue Jays baseball since I was old enough to understand what was going on, and we as fans see it time and time again. Someone puts words in someones mouth, and KABOOM< the rumours swirl, ideas get put in people heads and before you know it, they are gone.
I believe that this particular Jays team will not win this year, next year or any other year and I don’t think Ricciardi is the man to lead them. He can sure build one hell of a pitching staff though.
I believe the Jays should try their best to keep Halladay, but I will understand if they can get a deal like Tampa got for Zambrano, or like Cleveland got for Colon. Maybe a Chris Davis from Texas or some other power hitter who can take the pressure off of Wells and Rios to provide the offense with the long ball. However, judging by Ricciardi’s response to Adam Dunn last year, I doubt that will happen.
Whether or not they keep Halladay, they can teach Lind to play first base and give Snider the green light in left field so that he can play through his mistakes next year without having to look over his shoulder, that is provided his back is 100% and they fix the hitch in his swing. That would free up guys like Overbay and Bautista for potential trades.
Kudos to Hill for not entering the Home Run Derby, I think he remembered what happened to Rios.
Love the show Mike, and your the best radio voice of reason since the Swirsk.
MW: I’m not sure whether that’s a compliment, but thanks. I don’t think anyone is putting words in Roy Halladay’s mouth, though I think a few people are making some incorrect assumptions about him. The McGrady and Carter situations were both different from this one, though – McGrady said he might stay, prompting the Raptors to keep him thinking they might be able to re-sign him, when he apparently was planning on leaving all along. Carter did a Derek Bell-style “Operation Shutdown”. That had nothing to do with the media. Also, Chris Davis? They’d better do a whole lot better than that.
- T.J.Sorry, Mike. My belief is that he goes to the Yankees (with Wells) or he stays in Toronto. Which will leave the Jays in a very difficult situation, financially.
MW: Why are you sorry?
- BrianIf J.P trades Halladay and gets back a deal that pays off for the Jays in the future do you think this deal will completely change peoples outlook on J.P’s Tenure
and is this the biggest decision hes had since he got here
MW: Nope, at least not until he’s long gone.
- John TerryI wish Tony Viner would get involved. Go to Rogers, and ask for 200 million, most of which should go to Roy for a giant extension. I know I’m being a dreamer here, but I was always hoping JP was positioning himself to look like a saviour by signing Roy to an extension. With the ’92/’93 reunion coming up, I’m reminded of how things were when I was a kid, and how this was THE place to be in baseball. Renewed dedication by ownership could make this happen. Sadly, I think it takes a passionate owner to do so, and that’s something a corporation is unlikely to be.
All told, Roy should stay, and if anyone has to go, it should be JP.
Cordially Yours,
Winston.
MW: So you blame ownership, and they should also fire JP.
- Winston TuttleHalladay diminishing? Really? I’d hate to see Halladay go and I’m not sure what kind of trade the Jays would be looking for. This team was suppose to contend next year. There are a lot of great arms in the system and if Well and Rios have the years expected of them, I think Halladay is integral to a great run. I the Jays have decided that this team is not capable of contending (which befuddles me) then trade Halladay for Halladay’s sake. He’s been around for enough team rebuilding and should have a chance to win. Otherwise, stick with the original plan and make the run next year like expected.
MW: A team should never trade a player in his prime for that player’s sake.
- StevenMaybe you can answer this one, maybe not. I think JP is usually operating with a reasonable set of expectations, under a reasonable budget, under difficult conditions. I’m not surprised this team can’t get its head above the wild card water mark. I am surprised about BJ Ryan. Not releasing him, but signing him in the first place.
Billy Beane, from whence Riccardi came to Toronto, seemed to make a habit of creating and trading closers in order to make money. They are rarely successful in the long term, and young arms that throw 90+ without much else going for them are certainly easier to find than Shaun Marcums are. So why do you sign a closer to a 5 year deal in the first place?
JP limits himself to 3 years in the rest of the bullpen, doesn’t he?
MW: I don’t think it’s that he limits himself to three years in the rest of the bullpen so much as he signed Scott Downs to a three-year deal. Why sign Ryan? I think because J.P. tried and failed to “build” a closer earlier on in his tenure, whether it was Miguel Batista, Jason Frasor, Aquilino Lopez or the whole Adams/Ligtenberg/Speier thing. He saw the Red Sox go closer by committee and fail, and he figured that he’d have that extra money for the rest of his tenure.
- Greg WI was watching the Dodgers-Astros game last night,and the Houston announcer kept talking about Halliday going to the Dodgers for a package that included Andre Ethier,and a pitcher from AAA. I believe his name was Stultze.
I know they are pitching Jason Schmidt tomorrow,and if he fails to impress what do you think of a trade with L.A.
Maybe we could get Kershaw
MW: If they can get Kershaw, they’ve got to investigate that. Ethier and Eric Stults falls way short.
- DANNYHi Mike, what do you think of this scenario…
Toronto Blue Jays trade
Roy Halladay and Vernon Wells (with Toronto agreeing to pay 50% of Wells’ remaining contract)
to
Texas Rangers
for a package of
Neftali Feliz, RHP
Justin Smoak, 1B
Derek Holland, LHP
Elvis Andrus, SS
Max Ramirez, C or Taylor Teagarden, C
For Texas, Halladay would easily lift them past the LA Angels to win the west and with their offense could make some noise in the playoffs. Wells would solidify CF and allow Josh Hamilton to move to RF where he would be better suited. Wells’ offensive shortcomings would not be as noticeable in Texas and he would finally be closer to home and his BFF Michael Young. The caveat would be if Toronto agrees to take back 50% or more of Wells’ awful contract.
For Toronto, losing Halladay would hurt, but Blue Jays management has always stated it would take a substantial offer to pry Halladay loose from Toronto. What the then Montreal Expos gave the Cleveland Indians for Bartolo Colon… Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips… come to mind. But for Halladay that would be just the start of negotiations. I believe Texas, and maybe only Texas, have the prospects to compare. The players I’ve listed would fill major holes in Toronto, with Holland and Andrus able to contribute now. Wells’ departure would allow Travis Snider to have more playing time in the OF, with Rios moving to CF.
I believe this scenario benefits both with Texas winning now and Toronto making a run in about 2-3 years.
MW: I don’t think that it’s worth attaching Wells to Halladay if the Jays still have to pay half that contract. It’s a nice package, for sure, but I doubt Halladay would accept a trade to Texas regardless.
- ChalMike give yourself a +1 in your “objective journalism” atttribute for posting my hypercritical MSGIEY post.
I’ve listened to Brandy Halliday for two days on the radio. After hearing her and watching her husand pwn the Red Sox I might cry the day Roy is traded.
MW: I wouldn’t have called it hypercritical, I would have said simplistic, but that’s basically what I said in my reply.
- DaveOk. The jays have won their first series since they beat cincy. wow. that took a while.
on to making this team better. as long as players like dellucci and millar are on this team, it really makes one wonder who is making the personell calls. no way that ruiz, coats, snider would not be up here if it were jp’s call.
now on to a rather unfortunate mistatement from yesterdays jays talk.
“green demanded a trade, and pretty much fell off once he went to los angeles”
im quite certain you realized the gaffe before the words came out of your mouth.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/greensh01.shtml?redir
years of 49 and 42 homeruns.
ops 970 and 944.
now we can speculate all we want as to the juice player era, but fair is fair..the guy raked for a while with the dodgers. absolutely raked.
and i dont even like the player since he demanded the trade.
and as a bonus….i just thought it would be fun to check out ted williams stats, since there is a documentary out about him on HBO this month. i mean i knew he was great..but WOW
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willite01.shtml
27 k’s in 606 PA and 37 hrs with an OPS+ of 235!!!!!!
MW: Yeah, he was really good. After seeing Mencherson here for so long last year, I’m not so sure that it’s Cito keeping Ruiz and Snider down on the farm. Yes, Green had a couple of spectacular years with the Dodgers, but he fell off right around age 30 – a lot earlier than one would have expected.
- General ZodHi Mike
If by any chance since you have your new show Baseball Today, it would be appreciated if you could have like a weekly section dedicated to the Jays Minor League system with someone like Lalonde, Scott, Wilson, etc..
Thanks
MW: I don’t know if we’ll do the Jays’ minor leaguers on a weekly basis, but we’ll certainly check in on them.
- ChrisWhat are the chances of trading Halladay, then him becoming a free agent after 2010 where the Jays could then sign him again when a lot of money comes off the books?
This would give him two post seasons with a contender to go and try to win, then come back to Toronto to lead the Jays to a title as a former World Series MVP.
MW: I wouldn’t say the chances are high.
- RobA few times both you and Jordan Bastian have referred to Hill having been an ordinary hitter for a long time (Bastian twited 55 games the other day). That’s not necessarily true.
Through the first inning of the game on May 30, Hills line was as follows:
.344 – .377 – .536 – .913
Then he went 0-25
After that streak broke, he went out and picked it up again for 29 games over which he posted this:
.276 – .331 – .528 – .858
Three singles and a double and that’s right with his pace over the first two months. But even without that, .858 is solid work for over a month.
Now, he is 2 for his last 26 over six games.
So in truth, Hill has had two six game slumps, one from May 30 to June 5, and one which started July 10 and is ongoing.
it is unfair to suggest that Hill hasn’t been very good since the end of May.
MW: That .331 obp out of the two-hole ain’t pretty, but it’s prettier than the overall .280, it’s true. But if not for two road trips, the Jays are 44-30.
- WillRainMW: Halladay doesn’t have diminishing value for the next year and a half, and I can guarantee you that the Red Sox are very, very interested in acquiring him.
Why don’t you tell us how you can be in a position to make this guarantee.
Most of your guarantees (Rays’, Tigers’, and Blue Jays’ performances) have cost me money. Is this one legit?
_____________________________
MW – I don’t think there’s any reason to believe that Snider won’t come up the last two months and be very good, and be very good again next year.
I don’t know about that. Cito’s “off the record” comments regarding Snider have not been very complimentary. And I’ve never him say anything positive about Snider “on the record”. There does seem to be an issue here.
MW: Anyone who loses money based on what I say deserves to lose it. No, I can’t tell you how I can make that guarantee. How do you know what Cito’s off the record comments regarding Snider are? They’re off the record.
- alexBy the way, regarding Doc, there WAS a report on MLBTR sometime in the last few days that the Jays had told Boston and NY they wouldn’t deal him in the division – but reports are often wrong. Anyway, it has been reported.
I despise the idea of dealing him at all, and even more dealing him in the division…BUT i have to concede if they are determined to deal him then Buchholz and Bard and Anderson and etc is a mighty tempting package.
But only if you are convinced you can’t get Kershaw ever.
By the way, the caller that referred to Beeston’s remarks had a bit of an off-base way of describing it. i believe the context of Beeston’s remarks was that he was going to ask the Halladays for a clear picture of whether he would be willing to stay here past 2010. My theory is the only reason this discussion is going on is because the Jays are getting paranoid that Doc will peruse his ring elsewhere after his contract runs out.
So Beeston’s chat is to find out if Doc will give them a few more years – say 3 more – past 2010 to try to make it work here. My fervent prayer is that they say yes. i find Mrs Halladay’s remarks posted here upthread to be VERY hopeful. I just wonder if the thing hasn’t snowballed beyond JP’s ability to shut it down.
IMO, Halladay’s value to this team goes far beyond his outstanding pitching – perhaps most so in his effect on the young pitchers who join his staff. Even that wonderful Boston package simply doesn’t convince me. The only way i can stomach dealing Doc is if he tells Beeston that he WILL move on after 2010.
MW: If the Jays aren’t overwhelmed by an offer, leading to a Halladay trade (and J.P. said today that he feels a trade is unlikely at this point), then they MUST find out whether Halladay plans on returning post-2010 in this off-season.
- WillRainMike everyone in our division has made trades over the years that brought back very impactful peices. I have yet to see JP pull off that kind of trade.
Tampa Bay Rays- Moved Delmon Young and Elijah Dukes Brought in Jason Bartlett and Matt Garza Baltimore Orioles
Move Eric Bedard and Miguel Tajeda two star players in two seperate trades and brought back big contributers such as Luke Scott, a great centre fielder in Jones a very servicable middle ing reliver in albers and a good closer in Sheril and also a good starter in Gutherie. Boston moved Maney in a three way swap and ended up with one of the leagues most exciting young coveted players in Jason Bay, bostan has also drafted very well. Yankees don’t need to make big trades they just spend.
People complain and complain about the division and schedule, Yet our gm in terms of important trades has been the least active and in terms of drafting has done poor when in comes to bringing up bats.
The Rogers people when Jp came here wanted to see the second coming of Billy Beane a man that Drafts well and knows when to move the talent for other controllable tallent. Rogers does not intend to break the bank on any player, It does not fit into the business plan. JP has made major mistakes along the way, you say he has not made any bad trades, but sure enoung he has made horrible signings, lost money and as I mention above just has not at all done a good enough Job with the amount of home grown offensive talent.
MW: Jeremy Guthrie didn’t come over in either of the trades you mention, and J.P. has traded for lots of guys who are better than Matt Albers – I’m surprised you even included him. He’s made one horrible signing, Ryan, and a couple of bad ones in Thomas and Koskie, but you’re right, and I’ve pointed out before that the major failing of the Ricciardi era is that he hasn’t made that late-season trade that pulls in some future talent.
- ThomasMy first time blogging M…. so bare with me.
I missed the game today live because the wife and I attended at a family funeral. Watched it afterwards in high def on my PVR. It wasn’t the same as live (in our regular seat just in front of Lyle) but it was still exciting to watch. Roy sure pitched a master piece!
I have read over the past two weeks or so that J.P. has indicated repeatedly to the media that front office literally would have to be blown away before they would pull the trigger on a Roy trade. Here is my two cents worth for such a package if it were Boston. They couyld blow Rogers away with Jayson Bay, Kevin Youkilis, Fridays starter Chris Buchholtz plus a minor leaguer or two. This wouldn’t possibly happen or could it Mike?
In that case, I’d like to pass this message to J.P. Please keep Brandi happy and see that Roy remains a Jay for the remainder of his career. I’m absolutely convinced that Rogers has the wherewithall to resign Doc for multi years and that this is really something that Ted would have wanted. The worst thing that would happen to us consumers is that our Rogers Cable charges will hike up again, as would Rogers Home phone, our Rogers cell service fees and very likely Jays season tickets just as they have done over the past few years. It really doesn’t matter!!! It absolutely would be worth it to see Roy pitch for the Jays for the remainder of his carreer! (P.S. See you soon at the Fan590 tent)
MW: Shel, Shel, Shel – “bare” with you? I expect more from you! Anyway, the trade you propose with the Red Sox could never happen, for a few reasons. First off, the Sox wouldn’t be interested in moving Youkilis and Bay, because that takes too big a chunk out of their roster in a pennant race. Second, the Jays wouldn’t want Bay, who is a free agent after this season. There’s no question that Rogers has the wherewithal to lock up Halladay for the rest of his career, but is there a willingness to provide enough payroll to build a contender while he’s here? That’s Halladay’s concern.
- Halle's Grandpa ShelHey Mike, what team would you think would be best suited (for the Jays) to send Halladay to ?
The Phillies prospects are some of the best in baseball(prospectus)and would immediatly be tops on our farm. They also come with the added advantage of being in a different league.
Or, would you pick Boston ? They would certainly include a very valuable pitcher for next year in any deal.
Do you have a preference ? I just think if the Jays are not going to contend next year then a trade should be drawn up and executed. Its the best thing for the organization and without premium prospects in the system the Jays are going to have a terrible time competing in the East
MW: I like the top-end guys Boston has to offer better than the Phillies’ – why is it an added advantage for the Phillies’ prospects to be coming from a different league?
- Davejays scored 10 or more runs 4 times in april and 3 times in may. in both june and july combined the jays did it a whopping 0 times. that is how far the offense has fallen.
- jacobyI think that Halladay should stay unless they can get at least a proven major league player and a bunch of top prospects. I like the Dodger rumour of Kershaw and Kemp or Loney and some prospects. The Jays’ management said they’d have to be blown away by an offer and an offer like that would certainly do it. It would have to be something on that scale to make it worth parting with Roy.
Speaking of JP, why is he STILL keeping Millar and Dellucci around? It is just a repeat of JP’s disaster of last year…. Mench and Wilkerson. If you want fans to watch and support the team, at least show you are trying to improve the team. Keeping Millar and Dellucci, no matter what good guys they are, is painfully ridiculous.
Get Snider and Ruiz up to the big club… now!
It doesn’t make sense, especially with Ruiz with the amazing season he is having. What is holding JP back from calling him up?
Frustrated Jay fans continue to wonder why.
MW: Join the club. I have no idea why Ruiz and Snider aren’t here. I keep expecting at least one of them to be called up every day, and it never happens.
- Kelly PfeifferHi Mike, for the past 3 to 4 winters JP has been promising the jays’ to be contender in this Division (and Halladay has resigned because that has been the vision) and every year they fall way too short. I will give him props for improving the farm system, but I do not believe that great pitching without balance offence can win. He has assembled the best pitching the two previous seasons yet the jays’ have been missing that run producing bat, yet JP has always said that gaining that bat would hurt the future success of the team, now that Halladay has a 50-50 chance of being traded at the end of the week, When do you see the future finally showing and do you see it with JP at the helm of it all? And seeing that he has balked at the posibility of improving the team when there pitching was the best in the MLB, what assures us as fans that he will make this team a winning team, when the opportunity was present, he was afraid of hurting the future?
MW: When has JP said that picking up a big bat would hurt the future of the team? I would think that would help the future immensely.
- FabianHey Mike,
Do you know if San Francisco is in on the trade talks? Now, I’m totally against trading Roy Halladay, unless he says he won’t re-sign, but I’m wondering if this trade makes sense for both teams?
To the Giants:
SP Roy Halladay
To the Blue Jays:
C Pablo Sandoval
SP Matt Cain
Maybe the Jays could also throw in J.P. Arencibia OR Brian Jeroloman, so that the Giants get a catcher back in the deal, though I definitely think that San Fran would need to add more players if that was the case.
Some other prospects, if you don’t think the proposal would be enough for Halladay, or, if you think it is enough for just him but not for him and one of the aforementioned Jays’ catchers:
1B Angel Villalona
RHP Tim Alderson
LHP Madison Bumgarner
C Buster Posey
2B Nick Noonan
Bumgarner, 19, throws from a low 3/4 slot with above-average control. I’ve read that his slider is improving a lot and he has a solid-average change. He is killing it in advanced A and AA this year (1.56 ERA and 1.027 WHIP in 86.2 IP). Posey, 22, has been described as a plus defensive catcher with excellent bat control and a good eye who could end up as a doubles hitter who could hit 15-20 homers. In advanced A-ball this year (he has just moved up to AAA and only played 3 games) he had 13 HR, .326 AVG, .428 OBP, .967 OPS in 346 PA.
I’d appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!
MW: Cain and Sandoval are both terrific, but I don’t think the Giants would trade Cain in a Halladay deal. They’d be wanting to add to their rotation by replacing one of their lesser lights with Halladay, not by moving an all-star to get him. I don’t really think they’d trade Sandoval, either. Bumgarner seems terrific, but his youth (read: the fact that he has a lot of time to get hurt) scares me. I’d still take him and Posey pretty happily, though, but there would need to be something else.
- Justin from ArdtreaHey Mike
C’mon now, quite being so stubborn. Yesterday (i believe post #34), Jacoby asks you who has drafted better, Theo or JP. You avoid the obvious answer and point out a few misses by both GM’s.
Epstein has drafted better than virtually every GM in the majors. Why can’t you just admit he has crushed JP at the draft table?
Papelbon
Pedroia
Ellsbury
Lester
Lowrie
Buchholz
Meredith
Bard
Masterson
Add to this even more blue chip talent in the minors, it is clear who has the better draft record. Hell, there have been multiple years where the Red Sox have not even had a first round pick due to free agent signings. Can’t we just admit that Theo has done a much better job than JP?
MW: It can be argued that Theo is the best GM in the game, and pretty easily. He has a lot of resources to work with and has used them very well, with a few exceptions.
- rickMW: Halladay doesn’t have diminishing value for the next year and a half, and I can guarantee you that the Red Sox are very, very interested in acquiring him.
Can you tell us how you know for sure the red sox are very very interested?
MW: Nope, you just have to trust me.
- Tom McClartyMike, you say that fans may revolt over the trading of Halladay. How can you say that when fans don’t really come out much more than they do any other game to see him pitch. It’s pretty much equal if you take away the home opener.
MW: I don’t think that’s the real bellwether, but the numbers have been a little better with Halladay pitching since the home opener.
- AnthonySaw the Vegas 51′s Friday and was wondering what is up with Travis Snider. He just looked all game as if he just lost his best friend, even after he homered, he had no apparent joy.
Is he hurt, just sulking? Any idea?
MW: No idea. But I don’t know that watching him play a AAA game can give you any real insight into his state of mind.
- A PriceMW: It’s confusing, but I really think that the perceived change in the front office is because of the failures of B.J. Ryan and Vernon Wells and the lack of progression of Alex Rios and Travis Snider.
I’m so glad that the anti-spam word I found today was ‘rant’ because that’s exactly what I am going to do.
First off, this is the front office who thought that Adam Lind wasn’t worth cultivating. They were wrong about that. They’ve been wrong about far too much. And they are almost certainly wrong about any one or maybe two out of Wells, Rios and Snider. I’ve bagged on Wells all season and Rios as well. But both of them are capable of turning themselves around–I’d bet Wells over Rios on that–and Snider has had the same kind of look-see that Lind got before Gaston arrived. Give him a chance to succeed.
Secondly, yes, BJ Ryan went out in a blaze of inglory. However Scott Downs stepped up to become an extremely dependable closer. Everything Ryan was supposed to be except a lot more effective, a lot cheaper and a lot less flashy. And to add wonderfulness, Jason Frasor turned out to be a great set-up man.
Thirdly, and I say this with all my heart and soul, can somebody, anybody remove JP Ricciardi’s phones and lock him in his office with a gag on which may only be removed when he discusses the Halladay deal in house or with other GMs? He can’t stop himself talking to the media, and all these musings and hints and discussions are just rubbing sandpaper into the raw wound that is trading Doc. I’m in favour of the trade. I love Doc however he only pitches once every 5 days and we need everyday players. But please, please stop with the constant ‘JP Ricciardi says’ in every newspaper and website that has anything to do with sports. It’s unseemly and is not the way to do business. He’s making a fool of himself and the ball club he works for.
MW: No, he’s not. He’s just being available and accessible, which is all any reporter wants.
- isabella reyesMaybe the Jays put out a trade involving Doc just to get the fans motivated to show up at the dome…. nah! Pretty nice weekend anyway as to fan attendance for sure!
Yesterday afternoon there was no way I was going to miss what might be Docs’ last game as a Jay (before he starts for the Red Sox).
What a gem this guy is, the Jewel of all Diamonds” (pun intended)both on and off the field. I felt a bit choked up as Doc walked off the field and tipped his hat to us.
As I said before here, Doc and yes, Russ Adams thrown in there, are off to Bean Town with Buchholz, a position player and a couple of prospects heading to Hog Town!
If Doc stays, the Jays will be “motivated” enough to make a real serious run at the wc spot. If they have their, of late traditional 2nd half great finish, combined with having as many wins as they have now – anything can happen.
Speaking of “motivation” Mike. You said you did not agree with me on what I said about leaders and motivation as to winning games.
Your correct, there are plenty of leaders and motivators on losing teams that are still losing.
However, don’t you think your “splitting hairs” here as to the context of my comment? I was relating to teams that had won and just how much a huge part leadership and consequential motivation played a part in it.
You do need talent, there’s no question there! Leaders can and very often do bring out the best in those who choose to follow. That’s the important part – follow!
Obviously you can have all the leadership and motivators you want. If you don’t have the will, the intent to follow, or the talent, nothing changes as to winning or losing. However, leadership and motivation does play a huge part in those who do win!
Players are human and we are all motivated by one thing or another. For example, AJ had his best season as a Jay in his final year. Motivated by the prospect of a huge windfall during the off season!
I have listened to post games shows from other baseball cities and I have to say Mike,
your show comes out on top!
I hooked up with a couple of buddies here from Boston this weekend who came down to see the Red Sox and Jays play. They both said….”we really enjoy this Wilner guy and his post game show”! Nice to hear eh!
Both are looking forward to Doc in a Red Sox uniform! Me too!
Thank you.
MW: Nice to hear, for sure. What’s with you and the Russ Adams to the Red Sox stuff? As far as the leadership thing goes, I continue to believe that, on a winning team, people will find stories about great leadership and motivation, regardless of whether or not it exists.
- Bob from BurlingtonI think it would be very short-sighted to trade Halladay. The man and his wife represent the team and Toronto very well. And I don’t think any trade that happens will make the Blue Jays contenders. Trading him away will take away some much needed leadership, especially in the bullpen and the other starting pitchers who look to him as a leader and learn. Bringing in other players will not replace him in that way, and I think the only reason why the Jays are even close to .500 is the pitching even with all of the injuries. And who do you take out to the lineup to replace the trade? Do you include a Wells and/or Rios in the trade? Maybe a consistent replacement for Snilindtistadamulucci. I wouldn’t want to replace any of the infielders.
I believe that the Jays are very good team if they are consistent (you might say “lucky”). And you make the point over and over again that it’s about the AL East, and competing with the Yankees and Red Sox, who are excellent teams with alot of money. Where would the Jays be in a single American League with an even distribution of games?
MW: They’d have likely been in the playoffs two of the last three years, and with Halladay/Burnett/Marcum atop the rotation, would have been good shots to go a long ways. You might not want to replace any of the infielders, but Scutaro is a free agent after this season, and Overbay and Rolen are free after next season. Their replacements need to be cultivated. And Snider as part of your amalgam there doesn’t need replacing.
- TimMike,
Is Casey Janssen who is rehabing in AA going to be in the bullpen his next time around as a Jay? If so will he get his old job back as set-up man?
MW: Yes, and maybe, eventually.
- Jeff G.hey mike, I posted a while back that I bet 90% of people want JP fired and you said no way it was that high and I said we’ll never know unless someone does a poll. well guess what. the sun is doing a poll. well right now it’s at 88% for firing. that is got to be the worst approval rating for a gm in any league in history! it doesn’t matter what you think mike, everyone hates JP and he has to be gone.
MW: I saw that Sun poll, and it’s not exactly a scientific sampling, but there’s no question that an overwhelming majority of Jays fans want JP gone. Of course, your conclusion doesn’t follow.
- jacobyMike as much as we would like to keep Roy we can’t because he is going to walk at the end of his contract. His market value will be higher now because of the extra year on the contract. The funny part about this whole thing is the young pitchers are starting to look a lot better then I could have imagined but time is not on the Jays side as Roy wants to pitch in a playoff series now not two years from now. This team is a tweener. They don’t have quite enough offense to compete in the division and their pitching is not dominant enough to make up for the offensive shortcomings. They need a closer badly (Ryan was the guy until they over used him) and their hitting is far too one dimensional station to station stuff. The contract for Wells is biting them you know where but I don’t see an escape here. Trade Roy not because you want to or in actual fact should but as a business decision you must. It’s a no brainer.
MW: Depending on the return, of course. And the Jays have a pretty good closer in Scott Downs.
- mike glattI hope the Jays don’t trade Halladay simply because he gives us that chance even when things aren’t going well at the plate. How many pitchers have held the Red Sox to 1 run in a complete game?. Halladay has many years of brilliant pitching ahead of him.
If the Jays trade Doc, in my opinion he’s worth a player who’s playing in the majors NOW and a good prospect or two.
I’ve just heard the Yankees want the chance to match any other offer, is this true?
MW: I hadn’t heard that.
- John McLeanI know if you trade Halladay you have to get the most value in return but what if you have a team like the Phillies for example giving the Jays a very good offer but will not take Wells then you have the Red Sox maybe not a deal as good as the Phillies but are willing to take Wells on… or do you just go with the Phillies so maybe the Jays play Halladay only in the ever entertaining interleague play…? The stadium should be packed on friday, im going and i hope the announced attendance ain’t 20,150 im expecting atleast 35,000, would that be a good number to estimate, they are going against arguably one of the most entertaning teams in baseball speed, power A.L All-star m.v.p can’t ask for more only maybe a curtain call for the Doc.
MW: I would hope that the Jays would be close to selling out on Friday night, for what might be Halladay’s last start as a Blue Jay.
- Jaime RamonIf the Jays are going to trade Halliday,would it not be better to send him to a
N.L.club and thus avoid having to hit against him??
Robert Goodwin
London,Ontario.
MW: If the Jays are going to trade Halladay, it doesn’t matter where they send him, because they’ll have given up on making a push to be serious contenders until after Halladay becomes a free agent.
- Robert GoodwinWhy the Blue Jays should trade Roy Halladay:
It seems right now that everybody’s talking about whether or not the Jays should, or will, trade Halladay. Don’t get me wrong Doc’s my favorite player but the Jays have no choice but to trade him. Here’s my argument for why:
Right now the Jays have two options, they can either trade Halladay or they can keep him. Now let’s look at the best and the worst-case scenarios for each option. If the Jays opt to keep Halladay he has already made it clear that he wants to play for a team that can make it to the playoffs so lets say for the sake of argument that the stars align and everything goes right for the jays. Marcum and McGowan come back as good as they were last year, Wells and Rios can play like we hoped they would, Snider is ready to play in the majors, everybody else has another year like this one, and of course they all stay healthy. Lets say that all this happens next year and as a result the Jays make the playoffs and Halladay sticks around, it’s a long shot but it could happen, this is the best case scenario if the Jays don’t trade him. Now let’s look at the worst-case scenario if the Jays don’t trade Halladay. Let’s say that not everything goes absolutely right for the Jays in 2010; they still a good year but they fall short of the playoffs. As a result Halladay leaves Toronto as a free agent and signs with either the Yankee’s or the Red Sox’s and Toronto gets two draft picks.
Now lets say that the Jays do trade Halladay. The best-case scenario is that Halladay goes to the NL for a team that he feels can make the playoffs and signs a long-term deal. As a result the Jays get 4-6 legitimate prospects in return and Halladay stays far away in the NL. The worse-case scenario is that Halladay does not sign a deal with his new team, he becomes a free agent and signs with either Boston or New York however the Jays still get 4-6 legitimate prospect.
So now lets rank our four possible out comes:
1. Best: Keep Halladay, make playoffs, he stays long term.
2. Good: Trade him for 4-6 prospects, he stay with new team in NL.
3. Bad: Trade him for 4-6 prospects, doesn’t stay with new team, goes to Boston or N.Y
4. Worst: Keep him, he becomes a free agent and goes to Boston/ N.Y, we get draft picks.
J.P has the ability to get rid of two of these possible outcomes, either 1 and 4, or 2 and 3. Keeping Halladay gets rid of options 2 and 3 and trading him gets rid of options 1 and 4. Looking back at the list of outcomes, 4 is a disaster. If 4 were to happen the AL East would be locked up for maybe half a decade and the Jays get almost no compensation. This cannot be aloud to happen no matter how good option 1 is; it simply isn’t worth the risk. Therefore, logically the Jays have to trade Halladay because it is the only way to make sure that option 4 doesn’t happen, even option 3, the worst that can happen if we trade Halladay, is still much better than the catastrophe that is option 4.
I’d like to apologize for the ridiculously long post but I haven’t heard many logical arguments as to whether or not Halladay should be trade so this was my crack at it. I welcome any feedback that anyone would like to offer.
MW: You neglect to mention the option that the Jays keep Halladay, but trade him either in the off-season or next July, unless that’s all folded into Option 2 or 3. I’m not sure whether your argument is that Halladay should be traded at all, or should be traded now.
- Adam PMike:
I am tired of hearing about Millar and that he is “good in the clubhouse”. I think it is crap, and I am disappointed that the Blue Jays would put any weight into it. I am sure that Delucci and Millar are great to play cards with, pull pratical jokes, and say the “right things” like he “plays the game right way” — but the performance is at the plate and on the field. I am sure we could hire a bunch of good guys (former major leaguers?) to hang out in the clubhouse and do whatever it is Millar does without it costing us quality at bats. And who knows, maybe when Randy Ruiz introduces himself to the team people will say, “what a great guy”!
MW: That’d be cool, to hire a bunch of former players who were good clubhouse guys to just have them hang around the team.
- JBMike. I have a Roy Halladay. Both of his near-no-hitters have come against the Tigers and were both broken off by home runs. Name both of them, one of them was formerly in the Blue Jays system.
Peter, St.Catharines
MW: Bobby Higginson was the first one, and I don’t remember the second near no-hitter.
- PeterMichael,
Were the last 3 Blue Jays GMs all in attendance for Roy’s start? Surreal.
Do you think Ash feels a special attachment to Roy considering he was his first ever draft pick as a GM?
MW: Probably. Everyone loves their first.
- Uncle BenHi Mike.
I have to first apologize as I have slumbered in my reading of your blog. And I must say sorry if this question has already been asked. If the Jays were to trade Halladay to a team (any old team) and that team won the world series in either of the next two years, could you envision Roy re-signing with the Jays when he becomes an UFA?
thanks,
Bob in Guelph
MW: UFA is a hockey term, not a baseball term. And, though I accept your apology happily, see above.
- Bob van ReesHi Mike-I find it hard to understand why this team that could use more hitting these days does not give Randy Ruiz a try.He has to be at least as good and probably better than either Dellucci or Millar.Any ideas why they are reluctant to give Randy a shot?
MW: I can’t figure it out. The only thing I can think of is that they want a left-handed bat to occupy the Looch spot, but Ruiz – over the course of his entire professional career – has been a better hitter against righties.
- PaulHeard most of the game while driving home from the north. A couple of questions concerning you and the other voices of the Jays.
During home games, are you in the same booth with Jerry and Alan? Is Scott Carson in there as well?
When the Jays are away, do you work out of a separate location that home games, and is that why you don’t do the out of town scoreboard for away games? Just the pre and post.
I personally don’t think Halladay is going anywhere until the winter. Any chance anyone is asking about Wells?
MW: I’m in the same booth as Jerry and Alan for home games, right beside them. Scott Carson is in with the TV crew, since he works for the TV side. I don’t travel with the team, so when the Jays are away, I’m in here in Toronto, which is why I’m not as involved with the broadcast of the actual game. There’s no chance anyone is asking about Wells.
- Aaron KerI was at the game and missed it: why was Rios forced to steal second base a second time Sunday afternoon? Did the batter interfere? The nearest TV was too far from section 221 to see the replay clearly, and I didn’t notice any interference from Millar.
MW: Umpire interference on the throw to second (the first time). That sort of thing should really be announced in the stadium.
- J. B. RainsbergerMike….Nobody wants to see Roy go but I think everybody wants to see the Jays win. If a trade today means playoffs in three of four years and constant improvement until then, I’m all for it.
How’s this for a deal?
Halladay
Wells
Scutaro
to Texas for:
1)Elvis Andrus (why not build a team around a new young TALENTED shortstop. 20 years old)
2)Justin Smoak (The big bat. Switch hitter!!! Remember when we didn’t/wouldn’t trade Ted Lilly for Ryan Howard when he was smashing triple A pitching and couldn’t come up because Jim Thome was playing 1b for Philly?)
3)Neftali Feliz (The young Arm)
4)Julio Borbon (CF, lead off man with SPEED/stolen base ability. Something we’ve been lacking at the top of our line up since JP started as our GM)
I know you don’t believe in protection (I.E. a power hitter forcing pitchers to give the hitters before him better pitches to hit) or believe in speed/stolen base ability at the top of a line up. Whether YOU believe in it or not, both are REAL FACTORS. Forget about some equation that some guy who’s never really played the game has thrown together. Lets ask real major league catchers and pitchers they pitch differently to a hitter if:
A) There is a “Carl Crawford like” base runner on first in a reasonably close game
or
B) There’s a 40+ home run threat on deck (Ryan Howard, Albert Pujols, Carlos Delgado etc)
For A) i bet the answer is “yes…I throw less off speed pitches and I avoid throwing anything that might end up in the dirt. I might even pitch out early in the count thus putting me behind in the count)
For B) I bet the answer is
“Obviously!!! The last thing i want to do is walk this guy to pitch to the killer on deck. Therefore I try to get ahead early in the count and if I’m behind, I will still try to hit my spots but if i’m going to miss it’ll be missing over the plate versus missing off the plate.”
Teixeira started getting hot when A-Rod came back. David Wright doesn’t hit home runs with out Beltran or Delgado. Ask any hitter in the league if they would enjoy hitting in front of Pujols I bet they say yes.
Anyways, what do you think of that trade?
I think Texas could make the playoffs with the addition of Halladay and Wells. Scutaro would do as good if not better a job at short for them than Andrus is doing. Wells would start hitting with a change of scenery and Cruz and Hamilton behind him as well as Kinsler infront of him.
I think the players in return would be nice to have from now till 2011 or 2012. We’d be a free agent away from a winner i think.
I like the trade…
Fire JP when it’s done.
Comments?
MW: Your last line is hilarious. It’s not happening for a couple of reasons, mainly because the Jays couldn’t get that kind of return if they included Wells and his contract in the deal. It doesn’t matter what you or I think about line-up protection or the distraction of a speedy runner. It matters what has actually happened over the course of history. And that shows it doesn’t mean much, if anything.
- RealityCheckMike,
I’m a Vernon Wells’ fan. I think he’s an honourable guy who can, like a lot of other players, fall into dreadful slumps. I also think that if he’s packaged to the right team with Doc, he can reemerge, much like Mike Lowell did when he was forced upon Boston in the Josh Beckett trade, as a quality, team-oriented character ballplayer. Am I dreaming here or what?
Have the Jays signed their top two draft picks yet?
Thanks for taking time to blog. I find the Jays Talk more stimulating here than on the radio.
MW: The Jays haven’t signed those picks yet. There’s a big difference between what was left on Lowell’s contract when that trade was made and what’s left on Wells’ contract.
- stevehey the Sunday extendo-Jaystalk posted above is more like Micro-Jaystalk ! It’s cut off at 6 minutes.
I like the idea of trading Halladay to the Brewers in exchange for a balanced schedule.
MW: I’ll see if we can get that fixed.
- Rezhey mike…i hope you are not unwell…im so sick of jason varitek and his “captain” status…give me a break. tell me mike, what exactly does a captain do in baseball? its ridiculous the way that guy struts around the field with that C on his jersey and the way certain, but remaining nameless t.v. commentators eat it all up and go on about how he is the greatest leader in baseball history…its makes me even more sick than the idea of trading halladay…take care, mike…
MW: A captain has no extra duties and no extra privileges in baseball.
- trevor bHey Mike. I’m going to 2 or 3 games while I’m in Ontario and when I get back to BC I’m going to see the Jays on the 28th in Seattle all the while cheering on the Jays. Thats why I have been away from the blog. If anything interesting happens I’ll post it in the comments section.
MW: Sounds good.
- Matt visiting TO“mets’ rejection of jays’ 4-prospect bid shows value of youth (and money). dont forget, mets got santana for much less!
7 minutes ago from web
#mets rejected request of package of f-mart, niese, parnell and ruben tejada for halladay. #jays”
Jon Heyman may be the dumbest ‘journalist’ since Ken Rosenthal.
A) Doc would never waive his NTC to go to the Mets.
B) That package is pretty embarassing given what’s been rumoured.
C) Why would Minaya reject that?!
MW: A – Yes, he might. B – Very true. C – He wouldn’t. The story isn’t true at all.
- RenegadeMike,
I am interested in your thoughts on the following two proposals:
Boston gets: Halladay
Toronto gets: Buckholtz, Bard, and Lowrie
Synopsis: Gives Jays a potential top-3 starter, a potential 2010 closer, and an everyday SS/3B for when the penny-pinchers deal Scutaro or Rolen.
Yankees get: Halladay and Wells
Toronto gets: Joba and Damon
Synopsis: We take Damon’s salary back for half a season until he walks as a free agent at the end of the year, and Joba steps right into the rotation. Clearly we get less back than in the Boston proposal, but it does free up ~$35 large per annum, which of course much more important than winning to the owners since they are so financially strapped .
Thanks
MW: I’d do the Red Sox one – though I doubt the Sox would, but I think I’d rather have Hughes than Joba in your Yankee scenario.
- Sam RothsteinMike,
Kevin Millar.
Good guy.
Randy Ruiz.
Phenominal ‘AAA’ stats and from what I read or heard on the radio; good guy.
Is there a reasonable chance that the Jays could give Ruiz a chance over Millar, before it’s too late in the season? This guy could be a short term answer and not cost anything to try. Millar has shown what he’s capable of the last few years and it’s not too far off, that Ruiz, if given the shot, could at worst; do what Millar is doing. Why wouldn’t J.P. give this guy a shot?
What’s your opinion?
MW: See above.
- Jay McMahonMike…Do you have a memory from Blue Monday, so aptly named because Rick Monday of the Dodgers knocked the Expos from the chance of going to the ’81 WS?(and the game was on a Monday)….October 1981 found me in Grade 12 English that day cooking up a story with 4 classmates/co-conspitors that we all ate the same lunch and it didn’t agree with our stomachs. So we took turns excusing ourselves, then made the necessary detour to the basement where the audio/visual guy had the game on and was a cool guy who wouldn’t rat us out.
MW: Dave Van Horne called it Black Monday, so I’ll go with that. I was in Grade 5, it was the day I got my braces off. I heard the homer in the orthodontist’s office as I was on my way out, and the bus driver on the way home had the game on the radio, so I listened to the rest of the game that way.
- chris m.You’ve issued a challenge about the proponents of improved hitting under Tenace and Cito. I’m one of those strongest proponents. I don’t care about the weaker stats since May. Obviously, they couldn’t keep going at the pace they were at the beginning of the season. Let me ask you to compile some numbers. Since games are won/lost based on runs scored, I’m interested in runs/game from the beginning of 2007 to when Cito/Tenace took over compared to runs/game since. I’m willing to bet that the number since then is materially higher.
MW: This is going to take some research. I’d wager it’s not materially higher, but it depends on your definition of materially, I guess.
- Lorne CohenHey Mike, love the blog..
I have an interesting take on this whole halladay situation. How is it affecting the clubhouse, ie what do they think of his desire to win and that it wont happen here. I mean I know he is Roy Halladay, the best pitcher to play for Toronto..but does that therefore give him the right to basically give up on this team because they may not win next year? Hill is having a great year, Lind is having a great year, how do they feel that Halladay doesnt think that with them, marcum, snider, cecil, mcgowen all back that they cannot make a run at 2010. To me it is like Roy is being selfish…hes not 38 or 39. You never heard Tony Gwinn wanting out because he wanted to win..I don’t understand this and I love Roy Halladay.
MW: Has Halladay said that he doesn’t think the Jays can win?
- Danactually the pole results are actually worse. 4% are undecided so its actually 89/96 or 93% disapproval rating. that has got to be the worst approval rating in the history of the universe. and I know you were one of those who actually voted to keep so you dont count.
MW: It was actually a poll.
- minatemike, if you think that anyone drafted after the 4th round who ends up being good is just plain luck, then could you ask the jays scouting director what process goes into drafting these late round players? I highly doubt they just pick randomly. since the sox did it twice, I think they must had some sort of plan.
MW: They just pick randomly.
- jacobyHey Mike, is there a website where I can browse different teams prospect pools to find out what each franchise potentially has to offer us? baseball america doesnt seem to have what im looking for.
MW: I’m surprised by that. I don’t know about a website where you can just click on a team and see its best prospects. I’d have thought that would be Baseball America. Maybe you need a subscription.
- ChrisHey Mike,
Sorry if this question has already been asked. If B.J. Ryan was to pitch well down the stretch and then sign a contract with the Cubs (maybe 3 yrs @ $2 mil per, for the sake of the question), would his first year’s salary come off of what the Jays owe him? I think that is what happens this year; the Jays save the pro-rated version of the major league minimum for the rest of the year? So really they’d owe him somewhere around $12.5 million over the next almost year and a half?
MW: Yes, it would.
- Justin from Ardtreamike, if I had asked you 3 years ago what the chances of tampa bay going to the world series were, what would you have said?
MW: Highly unlikely.
- jacobyHalladay’s trade value is at its highest, don’t you think?
Ideally , could we package Halladay and Wells, by agreeing to pay 1/2 or so of Wells’ salary? ..
MW: Sure, but it would significantly reduce the return.
- ChasWith the Indians in town, I wanted to bring up a little history. I was a fan of the Indians, thanks to my brother from 1948, when they won the World Series through the early 60′s.
One of the great announcers of the time was Jimmy Dudley — who I listened to faithfully over such distant stations as WAKR in Akron OH.
http://www.americansportscastersonline.com/dudleymemorial.html
I still remember lying on my bed in early 1957, hearing that my hero, Herb Score, had been felled by a line drive off a hated Yankee bat. I was a member of his fan club and was shaken by this turn of events.
Herb Score retired a few years later and was the radio play-by-play announcer for the Indians for over 30 years.
http://www.americansportscastersonline.com/herbscoredies.html
Here in Toronto, we are blessed with whom I believe is the BEST play-by-play baseball announcer in MLB today — and certainly the best we have had here since 1977 — Jerry Howarth.
For some reason he has been overshadowed from the baseball limelight by the memory of Tom Cheek.
MW: That’s because Tom was such an overwhelming presence.
- Gary RI might of missed it, but what do you think of the jays offer to mets for what they want ? is too steep? hopefully other teams will get scared too. we want roy !
MW: You might HAVE missed it, but you didn’t. The Jays offer to the Mets never happened.
- mikeHi Mike, I believe the last thing that Tom Cheek ever broadcasted was a half-inning in a game early in the season in 2005. I’ve looked online, but can’t seem to find a recording of that. I’d really like to have one. If you have that at the station, could you possibly play it as part of a future baseball today show, or let me know where I can get it?
MW: It’s not a bad idea to rebroadcast it on Baseball Today. It was a half-inning of a game the Jays played in Tampa that April.
- DanHey Mike,
Here is my blockbuster scenario:
Blue Jays Receive:
SS Chin-lung Hu
SS Ivan DeJesus Jr
2B Blake DeWitt
3B Joshua Bell
SS Devaris Gordon
1B James Loney
RP Scott Elbert
SP Clayton Kershaw
RP James McDonald
Dodgers Receive:
SP Roy Halladay
1B Lyle Overbay
RP Jason Frasor
C Rod Barajas
RP Jesse Carlson
The Dodgers get a better 1B in Overbay who would be great in Dodger Stadium. They also complete their bullpen, and get a viable backup for Martin if he can’t turn it around. Meanwhile the Jays get some infield prospects and also some infielders to fill in while they develop in Hu, and DeWitt. Kershaw will fill in as the ace eventually, and Loney will be a less expensive alternative to Overbay. The Jays could also use this opportunity to bring up Arencibia for the rest of the year, while having DeWitt would also allow the Jays to deal Rolen for more payroll relief.
MW: As I’m sure you’re aware, there’s not even a ghost of a chance that it happens.
- bootyMike, please tell me why I shouldn’t get depressed watching the Jays. I know, I know . . . there are some young talents, but trading Halladay seems like tossing in the towel for this year, ’10, and possibly even ’11. If you visit the web sites of the teams that are supposed to be in line to trade for Halladay, you see that the prospects who are rumoured to be heading this way certainly don’t look like anything to write home about.
The Yankees and Red Sox will only contine to build. The Rays are stil young. The O’s are showing signs of improvement. Is there any hope for the Jays?
MW: Yes, there is, but they have to get healthy and they have to get better. Halladay won’t be traded for players who aren’t anything to write home about.
- ken in KingstonJust a quick question Mike. If Halladay is traded to a National League team and continues to contend for the Cy Young (which of course he will) would he have to compete for the NL award or the AL award?
MW: NL. And his AL numbers wouldn’t count.
- AlexThe ship is sinking!! Who was it that said that again? I would only trade Halladay if we could throw Vernon’s contract in there as well. Doc and Wells to any team for a prospect or two. Trading Doc solves nothing. Trading Vernon would solve alot..
- jeffMW: No, I can’t tell you how I can make that guarantee.
Thanks
MW: How do you know what Cito’s off the record comments regarding Snider are? They’re off the record.
Lots of discussion groups on the internet have gotten into the Cito-Snider relationship and many people claim to have heard (or heard of) Cito disparage (or criticism of) Snider’s approach and coachability. Who knows for sure, but Cito’s lack of any public endorsement for Snider speaks volumes for me.
MW: Unless you’ve spoken to Cito directly or heard from people who have spoken to Cito directly, you have no way to know.
- alexKLaw has been outstanding as a resource for Jays fans(and all baseball fans) these last couple of years. Although I always thought he sounded bitter and jaded whenever talking about JP in the past, I haven’t noticed that tone as much recently. Anyways, I’d like to hear your reaction to the comments he made on Michael Kay’s show, particularly those about JP’s tenure.
MW: Didn’t hear them.
- Dan WaechterMW: No, he’s not. He’s just being available and accessible, which is all any reporter wants.
Mr Ricciardi does not work for the media. He works for the Blue Jays. What the reporters want is not his concern.
MW: You can’t rip the guy for lying to the press and then rip him for answering a question honestly.
- isabella reyesOverbay was aggressive and made a horrible mistake but its Downs fault for throwing a 0-2 fastball to the Indians best hitter. Why why why?
MW: Overbay didn’t make a mistake, he made a bad throw. Downs made a mistake. The pitch very obviously wasn’t where it should have been.
- RenegadeThere is a big difference between a bad pitch and bad pitch selection. That O-2 pitch to Ramirez was bad pitch selection. You do not throw a fastball in that situation. Especially when Rimirez demonstrated earlier in that at bat that he was not able to come close to the curve. You throw the curve again and hopefully off the plate. That was the only correct choice there. Fastball should not have even been on the menu.
MW: Sigh.
- dave_12Mike;
Why is Roy in such a big hurry for any way?
Dave Stieb played 14 years as a Blue Jay before getting to and winning a World Series.
Roy’s only been here for 11 years.
In Stieb’s first 11 years he played in 368 games vs Halladay’s mere 299 games (or is it 300?).
Stieb was real class! He bled blue! Roy is equally classy I really hope he’s still here next time the Jays take the pennant!
One more thing, though the Jays aren’t in the running the potential is sure there and they are with out a doubt THE MOST entertaining club in baseball.
Win or loose ya got-a love em!
MW: Roy’s not in a hurry. He’s not behind these crazy trade rumours. And it’s LOSE. Sheesh.
- HarrisHere is the definition of a Plan..
a scheme or method of acting, doing, proceeding, making, etc., developed in advance: battle plans..
Sorry to say it Mike…Riccardi has no plan..
MW: Of course he has a plan – it’s to build a winning team.
That is a goal, not a plan.
____________________________
“For Texas, Halladay would easily lift them past the LA Angels to win the west”
This is not true. I wonder what the basis for this conclusion was.
MW: It surprises you that commenters make statements that aren’t true, and have no basis for their conclusions?
- alexLove the show(s) and the blog Mike,
“The ship is sinking!! Who was it that said that again?”
Hey, Shae Hillenbrand is back, filed under “thanks for nothing, don’t let the door hit you on the way out”.
Tough loss tonight, but I have to say that I’m surprised that the Jays dodged the bullet as long as they did – Cecil was in trouble as much as he wasn’t.
When the radio wasn’t on, I caught some of the game on TV – I was surprised to hear Tabler call Clemens out, contrary to the brotherhood’s typical tendencies towards silence.
Some friends of mine are having a discussion: Alomar or Baerga?
MW: Alomar or Baerga what?
- Terry BradleyWells is .175 with RISP. Why is he hitting third again? Also, Ruiz hit 2 homeruns again today. Why is he not in the Bigs again?
MW: Got me.
- Renegade“MW: Alomar or Baerga what?”
As Toronto baseball fans in the early nineties we all had Alomar coloured glasses, and wouldn’t even entertain the possibility that there could be another second basemen who was as good as, or (gasp!) better than #12 in his prime.
In the discussion I brought Baerga up as stiff competition for Alomar at the time as the American League second baseman supreme.
So Mike, as someone who can usually see the forest and the trees, how did Carlos Baerga stack up?
MW: Not close. Alomar was a ridiculously better defender and wasn’t as allergic to the base on balls as Baerga. Carlos’ top OPS+ seasons were 127, 124 and 118, with nothing else above 108. Alomar’s were 150, 141 and 139 and he had three other seasons above Baerga’s career-best 127. Alomar was also 474/588 stealing bases, compared to Baerga’s 59/83. Not even close.
- Terry BradleyMike (and Burlington Bob,Post #43)re Russ Adams:
Didn’t I hear/read somewhere that Russ had refused assignment to AAA, and opted for free agency? (That’s what is listed under “transactions” on the Blue Jay page in CBS sports).
Has he caught on with anyone else?
MW: That’s right, he did! I had heard he signed with the Padres, but haven’t confirmed that yet.
- NormGreat answer, thanks Mike.
MW: I don’t think you’re being sarcastic. I’m not used to that around here.
- Terry BradleyNope, no sarcasm.
MW: Which is appreciated.
- Terry Bradley