11:45 PM Eastern
Back when SkyDome opened to the public 20 years ago today (not coincidentally, the same day some military dude taught Billy Shears and the boys a thing or two about music), the Blue Jays weren’t around. The same could kind of be said about today.
Of course, back in 1989 the Jays were in Boston, laying a 10-2 pasting on the Red Sox in advance of their ‘Dome debut two days later. Tonight, the Jays were in attendance at their home yard, laying a huge egg, getting smoked by the Los Angeles of Anaheims.
Jered Weaver dominated, just as he did out west last month when he threw a complete-game three-hitter at the Jays. This time, he only lasted seven innings, but again the Jays only got to him for three hits, and he struck out a career-high 10 – including Marco Scutaro, Aaron Hill and Vernon Wells twice each.
Last night, the Jays were able to win despite only getting one hit from their first through fourth hitters. Tonight, they again got only one hit out of the one through four, but the bottom of the line-up couldn’t pick up the slack – not that it should be expected to be able to do so on a regular basis.
Weaver is on fire. Including tonight, he’s given up just one run in five of his last six starts. The Jays ran into a buzzsaw, but that’s two buzzsaws in their last three games. Three if you count Halladay last night. In fact, a starting pitcher has recorded a career high in strikeouts three Jays games in a row now. Brian Tallet needs eight tomorrow to make it four in a row.
There was some good to point out - Adam Lind, who was nearly scratched before the game with a sore right wrist, wound up going 3-for-4 with a couple of doubles. Wells flexed his defensive muscles, making an outstanding running grab in deep right-centre on a Kendry Morales belt to start the 9th inning. He also made a great catch on Juan Rivera at the wall in the 3rd. Vernon used to be able to do that a lot more often, but it was awfully nice to see. Shawn Camp came in to pick up the pieces in the 5th inning and threw three innings of two-hit shutout, striking out four.
Far more bad than good, though, including B.J. Ryan’s shutout 9th inning. He may not have allowed a run, but that was more thanks to Wells’ great catch than anything else. Ryan struck out Kendry Morales on an 84 mile an hour cutter, and his slider, which had been low to mid 80s earlier in the season, hit just 78 on the gun.
Also filed under “not so much”, Casey Janssen. The drop-and-drive specialist had a lot of trouble keeping the ball down, and when that happens, he’s going to get hit. Tonight, Janssen gave up a two-run homer to Bobby Abreu and a double to Vladimir Guerrero before he even recorded an out. He only managed to record 12 outs before retiring for the evening having allowed five runs on seven hits, including a total of four doubles to go with that homer. It was easily the worst of his three starts so far this season, but I’m still a big fan.
Also bad, the fan who picked up Abreu’s two-out double in the 8th. The spectator interference allowed Erick Aybar to score all the way from first. Granted, it was the 8-1 run and didn’t mean a thing in the grand scheme, but the first rule of fandom is NEVER interfere with a ball in play unless it will help your team. The second rule, or perhaps 1A, is ALWAYS interfere with a ball in play if it will help your team.
Here’s tonight’s edition of The JaysTalk (tonight’s “Target Of Your Wrath”, Vernon Wells) for your listening pleasure:
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The series ends tomorrow with an afternoon affair pitting Brian Tallet against John Lackey. The Jays now need to win, and to sweep the Royals, to make good on my pre-homestand prediction of 7-2.
Before I go, I learned something about the bureaucracy of baseball today, a little-known rule about which I wasn’t aware was applied in the case of Dirk Hayhurst, who was called up last night. It turns out that the Jays weren’t allowed to call him up from the minors until May 15th, so he couldn’t have made the team out of Spring Training regardless. Cito Gaston said before the game that he had actually wanted to take Hayhurst north because of his fantastic spring (8 IP, 7 hits, 1 run, 0 BB, 13K).
The reason he couldn’t was that Hayhurst was a “draft-excluded” player who had been released after the Rule 5 draft. That is, a player who was added to the 40-man roster after X date (sometime in August, I think). Such players aren’t allowed to be placed on the major-league roster until May 15th if they re-sign with the team that released them. We got all the info in a nice, little Baseball 101 session – though given the intricacy and obscurity of the rule, maybe Baseball 401 – with Alex Anthopoulos before the game. Basically, the rule is in place to prevent teams from hiding players from the Rule 5 draft, so it bites teams that kind of try to make their way around said draft. That’s not what the Jays were trying to do here, Hayhurst was released and quickly re-signed in February after the Jays had a chance to grab Matt Bush on waivers.
It doesn’t happen often, that a team has a player on its 40-man roster through the Rule 5 draft, then releases him and re-signs him prior to the start of the regular season (such players can’t be outrighted off the 40-man, the only way to get them off the roster is to release them), but when it does happen, we now know that those players can’t play in the big leagues until after May 15th of that season. You learn something new every day!
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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I always thought when a fan interfered with such a play it was a ground rule double and base runners were given 2 bases.I thought Cito came out to discuss that with the home plate ump. Also I wasn’t pleased to see Carlson bounce back poorly after his outing against the O’s.
MW: When a fan interferes with a ball in play, the decision on where to place the runners is at the discretion of the umpires.
- GregMike,
I think the bigger bummer was that the big unit got rained out toinght in pursuit of his 300th win. SI.com has an interesting article about the next 300 game winner. Ted Keith thinks Doc may be the guy to be the next one.
Here is the link.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ted_keith/06/03/randy.300/index.html?eref=T1
You should try to make it to St. Marys on June 20th to see Larry Walker and Ernie Whitt get inducted in the Cdn. Ball Hall.
Regards,
Phil
- Phil ParkinsonMike – I heard the rant by one caller tonight (Tom) and although you grew tired of his approach, you have to agree he has passion for the Jays. I actually agree with a point he made about how the Jays (Cito in particular) should not be closed to making adjustments in the order if it has a reasonable chance of improving the odds of a win.
That can mean in-game defense improvements like inserting Overbay in the 9th for Doc’s game, and it should also include changes in the order. If Boston can move Ortiz to 6th (even though Wells is not THAT bad) then why shouldn’t Cito be more open to it? The Jays need to work hard at winning every series they can.
I agree with Tom that the Jays shouldn’t just let the status quo ride, if there is a better lineup option. Changes like you suggested on the show tonight would be refreshing (ie Overbay 3, Rolen 4th).
I didn’t agree with his mediocraty comment regarding the Jays.
MW: My reply is the same as it was last night – Cito isn’t going to change the line-up. It’s not because he’s stubborn, it’s because he thinks he’s doing the right thing for the team.
- RezWas at the game tonight and it was quite the contrast from Saturday’s game, which I was fortunate to attend as well.
Saturday: 35,000 fans who were more or less excited about the game.
Wednesday: 17,000 disinterested fans who couldn’t get the wave started if their lives depended on it. Not that I minded, the wave is irritating, but it sure was a stark contrast.
I caught the end of the Jays talk on the ride home and I was very happy to hear your shout-out for Tiny Tim Collins. As a similarly small-statured individual (yes, statured) I am really rooting for him to make it to the bigs some day. It might not be for a few years but I’m confident it will be worth the wait.
Tim Collins Stat Update:
ERA W L S IP BB K WHIP
2.73 3 2 1 29.2 11 49 1.01
I doubt if that will be formatted correctly… but you get the idea. 49 Ks (and only 11 walks) in under 30 innings!
A little early to start with the “Collincecum” thing but a guy can dream.
MW: It’s not going to be a Collincecum thing, because Tiny Tim is a reliever. But I’m really excited to see him pitch.
- KPI’m curious why you’re a big fan of Janssen’s. He doesn’t seem to have a lot of upside. No big heater, not much of a strikeout pitcher, not really a lot of upside compared to other Jay’s prospects like Cecil, Purcey and of course the two injured M’s.
He is a decent inning eater, but his stats on things like missed swings is very low and he gives up a lot of hits. I can see him doing a decent amount of 6 IP, 3-5 runs, 1.5ish whip outings. But compared to the potential of other Jay’s starters I don’t see that as standing out very much.
He seems to be more suited for what Tallet did previous to this year, long relief. Maybe like Tallet he’ll get his game in shape enough to have a run at being a starter, but I don’t see him helping them much now, given his performance. Plus I think he’d be well suited to taking that spot that Wolfe vacated. Then maybe bring Purcey back up now that his control has improved. (interesting post on Batter’s Box about his foot angle and how it could be affecting his control btw)
MW: Purcey had another bad outing in AAA last night. As for Janssen, I see a guy who gets outs. He doesn’t miss a lot of bats, but when he’s on, he misses a lot of barrels. Marcum doesn’t have a big heater, either.
- Chris W.Hey Mike,
I don’t get the “20th anniversary” thing on June 3, when the Dome opened on June 5 . . . perfect opportunity to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the Dome this Friday night, a June 5, which I believe is happening . . .
Hard to figure that buiding is “only” 20 years old. It already looked outdated in 1995 . . .
Glad to see BJ brought his E.R.A. down closer to 8.00 with that blazing 78 mph slider. That’s 10 mph faster than I was throwing tonight, but I had a couple beers before my game . . .
MW: The Dome opened on June 3rd, but the first baseball game wasn’t until the 5th.
- Ken PaganMike: Would the Jays have any interest in Tom Glavine?
Would probably be the most solid 5th starter they could get, considering that their arms continue to fall off at a torrid pace, and sooner or later they’re bound to lose another young arm to “elbow/shoulder soreness”.
He signed for $1m + $1m with the Braves…getting a proven winner like him for a vet’s minimum would be, at best, a great way to shore up the rotation (assuming he comes healthy), and at worst, bring in a proven winner into the clubhouse.
Thoughts?
MW: I posted my thoughts about it last night.
- AmirDo you know whats the latest news on Travis Snider? He hasn’t played the last 3 games for Las Vegas.
MW: See above.
- VjeyHey Mike.. Here is a Wilnerism for ya’ De-hypothetically, If the Jays had lost the first 9 games of the season, and had the same record being 2 games back.. The calls would be.. HOW BOUT THOE JAYS.. What is this crap with living and dyeing from game to game.. That one guy who phoned in , went from moving Vernon up a few spots in the order, to sending him down to the minors is brain-dead.. Mike, I was wondering what your thoughts were on the attendance this year.. I know a ton of people out there are hockey-pucks, but this is getting pretty sad.. What would the crowds be like if they if they were 10 back?? I figure with the T.O attitude of live and dye, game by game, and they go on a 9 game winning streak they might squeak 45 in there on a weekend day against the frontrunners.. Is it just me Mike or is this just a one off? Please dont play the recession card.. Great job Mike..
MW: I don’t think it’s a one-off, nor do I think it’s the recession. It’s the fact that it’s still hockey season and there’s only been one visit each by the Yankees and Red Sox. Attendance will wind up lower than last year, I think (unless the Jays stay VERY close all season), but not by much.
- FLIPPERHiya Mike,
This one seemed to go from bad to worse for Casey right from the get go. Glad i didn’t see it, actually…
I see Jesse Carlson is listed at a seemingly generous 160#, how realistic is it? I wonder about his durability and stamina. He’s been rocked the last two times out, and leads the league in appearances. He’s given up as many earnies this year as all last year and his K/IP is also way down. What are your thoughts? Is he being over-worked or over-exposed?
Other than that, they showed the end of the ARZ/LAD game on the tubage. Have you seen this kid Zavada sporting the Rollie Fingers’ ‘stach! Sweet!
MW: I have not, I’ll have to check that out. Carlson is a skeleton, that’s for sure. He’s one of those guys who can’t put on weight. His struggles may be a case of both over-use and over-exposure, or it just might be that he’s had a few bad outings.
- dabidoBilly Shears? He was the winner of the Ringo Starr look-alike contest. That’s why he mentioned on the Sgt. Pepper album. Cito has a saying that goes “where you are is where you’re supposed to be”. I’ve heard him say it many times, including last year after his re-hiring. In the Beatles song “All you need is love”, they say the same thing when John Lennon sings “there’s nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be”. Tonights loss aside, I think Cito could have been the fifth Beatle. You gotta admit he did a great job on that Canada Day video in 1996 leading the choir. Hey, where is that video? I’d love to see it again. Someone post a link.
- Jim in OhioWhat is with Cito’s love affair with Kevin Millar? This guy was suppose to be a bench player, which was perfect but now Cito wants him in the line-up almost everyday. He shouldn’t have played against Weaver. Inglett and his left-handed bat should have been in the line-up. Cito and his veterans. I won’t be surprised if Joe Carter doesn’t come out of retirement and is in the Jays’ line-up.
MW: I’m sure Joe would like to do so.
- Kelly PfeifferHi Mike.
I just found out that the Braves released Tom Glavine. Do you think it would be worthwhile for the Jays to sign him and get a veteran starter in the rotation? The young guys are doing great but was wondering that adding a for sure Hall of Famer like Glavine (even though obviously his best days are behind him) would help the team as long as we are in this thing.
Thanks!
Rick
MW: See above.
- Rick C.Couple of points from your previous blog and comments.
1. Doc just won his 140th game. Not 160th as mentioned by a commenter. And compared to other 300 game winners, he’s slightly behind pace. He’ll have to pitch till he’s 44 approximately.
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/05/20/the-300-workout-plan/
If Doc is truly an all-time great pitcher, he’s going to get better in the next 2 or 3 years and then start his decline. He’ll also have to develop his changeup. If you really want to be critical of Doc (no reason to be), but if you really wanted to … he has got to develop a change.
2. Cecil was demoted to AAA because he’s not ready for the bigs. He showes signs that he can be an excellent pitcher here. He has a very good sinker and slider. BUT, he hung his slider and all those HRs he gave up were on hanging sliders – Dye, Thome, Ortiz. He also was not confident in his curve and change. Did not throw it enough. He threw it a handful of times in his first two starts and got swings and misses. Most young pitchers aren’t confident in their secondary pitches. So, he needs that whole season in AAA to get those reps.
Also, he’s building a relationship with our catcher of the future – Arencebia. That’s an added bonus.
3. Doc threw 120+ pitches twice last year. He followed both those outings with a complete game. One a shutout in Seattle, and the other the 1 run gem ruined by a Pedroia solo blast late in the game. Sure a lot of fans remember that. That was an absolute gem. So, chill out. Doc’s arm isn’t going to fall off. Take a look at what that Tampa rookie did to the Royals today. So, call the Blue Jays ticket office and get your ducats for Sunday … Doc’s going to paint a masterpiece.
4. Mike – John Sterling? Are you kidding me, bro?
MW: 4 – You can’t take him seriously.
- T from NYMarco Scutaro striking out twice in this game is probably the worst thing he’s done all year. I think his play has been nothing short of All-Star worthy.
I need to publicly apologize to the guy. When I heard that the Jays had signed him to another year, I thought they were nuts. I figured that if you’re going to have a below average hitter play shortstop, then it should be John MacDonald. And, my friends and I had solid whines about it.
I’m not sure what has happened to him. I think, maybe, that it was his experience on Team Venezuela. That energy and taste of success may have geeked him up. And, we, Jays fans are enjoying the spoils.
I hope the good D and run scoring last all year. I suspect they will.
MW: The run scoring depends on how high he can keep his OBP. I don’t think he’s going to score 120 runs this season.
- Romejays are avging 3.5 runs/game last 25 games and they are 10-15
13 of those games were on the road and they avg 2.5 runs and went 2-11
jays were 13 games above .500 and now 5 games above. if they dont start scoring more runs they will keep losing.
MW: Very true
- bigmamaof the last 25 games jays have scored 2 runs or less 12 times and have gone 1-11
- bigmamaHi Mike
It’s nice to see Rios starting to hit and I still think that Wells is a very good hitter. He seems to hit best, though, when has a big bat to protect him in the line up. Do you agree? and if so, is there a big bat available that the Jays could pursue? And if there is someone available, who do you think the Jays would have to give up to trade for this player?
MW: I don’t necessarily believe in the theory of protection, and greater minds than mine have analyzed it a lot more deeply and concluded that it doesn’t do anything measurable. There’s no big bat being dangled out there right now, and any good one on the market would require the Jays to bring forth their finest meats and cheeses – teams would ask for Cecil and/or Snider.
- Mike MThe Jays just ran into a great starter. Nothing much can be done about it. Adding more lefty hitters would help, but who is there? Inglett?
Hate to say it but it looks to me that BJ Ryan will never return to form. His last season results were very good (only 4 blown saves), but the manner in which he accomplished it gave pause for
concern. This season’s loss of velocity is troubling.
Vernon Wells: Still a pretty good player, just more is expected from him given his salary(whether fair or not) and his number 4 slot in the lineup. Big salary underacheivers usually draw the wrath of fans. Similar to Rios, Well’s easy going manner also makes him seem like he’s coasting. When they are hitting well, they are praised for it, but when they are not…
Thanks for explaining the rule 5 draft…I was having trouble sleeping!
MW: I didn’t explain the Rule 5 draft at all – just that draft-excluded player rule. Wells and Rios don’t get praised when they do well – at least, they haven’t been this season. I don’t know if Ryan is finished or not, but I do know he’s got a lot of work to do.
- Rosswhy is cecil not on this team. he gave up a whopping 4 runs in 3 games then had 1 bad inning and gets sent down. I’m sure that did a lot to his confidence. it seems the only reason is to save his ml time. that is a poor excuse when you are trying to win a championship.
MW: Or the reason could be that in that one bad inning, he lost focus, didn’t bear down and instead gave in to the Red Sox, then admitted it afterwards. He showed right there that he wasn’t ready for the majors quite yet.
- bigmamaHey Mike. Not sure what your opinion on this is but I was wondering what you thought of the rediculous number of homeruns at Yankee stadium. It’s rediculous enough that they copied the same dimentions down both corners! Now the New Yankees are stuck with a Stadium that is Coors field x2.
MW: Just wait until the weather heats up and they tear down the old Stadium. And please, invest in a spellchecker.
- Matt from BCMike, it seems as though the Jays have went in the bullpen from alot of lefties for situations late in games to no lefties (other than Downs). I mean they used to have Tallet, Carlson, Downs, and Ryan. Tallet is in the rotation now, Carlson has suddenly become very hittable, BJ is getting worse every day, and Downs is the closer. We used to have the luxury of running out a good left handed reliever to counter teams top left handed hitters, and now we have nothing for these late game situations, other than Downs for the 9th.
My question is, do you keep running Carlson out there even though he keeps getting lit up, or do we have anything in the minors for left handed help? And is it time to put BJ back on the DL with a torn something or other and keep him on rehab until he figures out how to pitch again?
MW: It may be time to put Ryan back on the DL with “loss of velocity” or some such, to let him work it out in extended spring. As for Carlson, they don’t need to keep running him out there, since Jason Frasor and Brandon League can both get lefties out, though Cito doesn’t like to use Frasor.
- Jason IsselMike, do you think Alex and Vernon will catch fire in time for the Jays to stay in contention? If not, do you see a solution to the lack of production out of the three and four? Do you feel that your solution may be foreseeable in Cito’s eyes? What do you think Cito will do and when? Man, we we need fire and leadership in the heart of the order! Today’s game is huge! Go Jays!!!
MW: They don’t need fire and leadership in the heart of the order, they need offensive production, and they’ve at least been getting it out of Rios for almost the last month. Today’s game is not huge.
- Justin HughesHey Mike… Just wondering why the Yanks & Bosox with their deep hitting line-ups of proven all-stars don’t hesitate to shake things up when their teams are struggling offensively even for a relatively short period of time but the Jays absolutely, almost stubbornly, refuse to try something new.At this point don’t you think that it is time to split up Wells & Rios? How about this line up… Scutaro, Rios, Hill, Lind, Rolen, Wells and the 7,8 & 9? I know you’re going to say this is he Cito way but at some point wouldn’t someone have to step in and insist upon a change say JP?
MW: It’s not going to happen. And why would you want Hill hitting 3rd? He’s on an 0-for-17 run.
- AndreAfter a night-shift of pondering what a caller had stated, I couldn’t help but agree that Roy Halladay IS the greatest Jay of all-time.
Now some Halladay predictions
1. 34 more wins on his current contract.
2. Another runner-up in Cy Young voting this year.
3. He’ll sign a 5 year deal and remain a Jay
4. 275 career wins
5. OK why not, he’ll start game 1 against the Yankees as the Jays claim the wild-card spot this year!!
MW: And they’ll face the Yankees in the ALCS? Ya think?
- Steve G.Tom Glavine!!!
(But only if others haven’t asked, and you haven’t answered, yet.)
MW: They have, and I did – long before you posted this comment.
- JoeMike?
I think this blog is a hoot, and I know spelling errors drive you up the wall.
But it’s a blog, not Shakespeare. I have a family member whose spelling is so bad she can’t make the difference between blue and blew !
but is a whiz at math.
WEll what to say?
By the by I did not know you were a rebel ! Spectator interference indeed !
MW: A rebel? I don’t get it. And I’m not asking for Shakespeare, just proper spelling and grammar.
- BarbHi Mike, interesting JaysTalk, last night, no shortage of the “hate on ” for Wells. A couple of observations from last night. Weaver’s fast ball is straighter than straight and it seemed the Jays were watching a lot of first pitch strikes all night. Surprised no one made the adjustment. He threw a lot of first pitch curve’s as well but pretty well all of them were right over the middle of the plate first pitch. Second, did you you see Wells attempt at the catch in centre when he dove into the wall. He wasn’t even looking at the ball but he bumps up against the wall and throws his glove out to make it look live a valiant attempt to catch it. How can you catch the ball when you are not even looking at it. Wells is a good centre fielder but that just looked funny on the replay. Go Jays Go.
MW: For a guy who throws a fastball that’s “straighter than straight” he’s had some really good success lately, having allowed one run or fewer in four of his last five starts.
- KenI don’t know if you watch a monitor during the games but if not you are missing the best part of the game especially when its one of those games when the Jays are getting slapped around.
The two guys who dress up like umpires and sit behind home plate are hilarious. They mimic the umpires ringing guys up, showing foul tips, giving counts and when a batter gets two strikes… on go the facemasks.
Honestly, it makes it easier to accept the odd clunker of a game.
MW: I have heard tell of those guys, but I have never seen their work. I know some people love them, and some hate them.
- JimHi Mike,
Just wanted your opinion on the Glavine situation. Do you think the Jays will consider making him an offer to boost their rotation ? He could go for a cheaper price. Also with the club being open about the possibility of making a move midseason who do you see as the most likely candidate for them to move or who do you see as someone they might want to acquire ?
MW: You (and the others above you) have to read the blog. There’s no point in me answering comments if people don’t read them – I addressed the Glavine thing last night.
- AaronMike, if you were Cito would you drop Vernon from the clean up spot? If yes, where should he hit and who should bat cleanup. Clearly, two and half months into the season Vernon is an overpaid, underperforming player who is just not cutting it at the number 4 spot.
MW: We’re not even two months into the season yet, and I don’t see what Wells’ salary has to do with his production. I’ve answered your question, conservatively, a thousand times in the last two weeks.
- JackDo you think a day off is coming up soon for Vernon Wells? Rios had a day off last week and since has hit .375 with two homers. Maybe a day off for Vernon would help him out too.
MW: We shall see – he’s off today.
- SamDo you think if Milwaukee falls out of the race by the trade deadline they would be willing to part ways with Prince Fielder? I remember a year or two ago hearing that he wasn’t too happy with management there and I’m not sure if that’s still the case. I believe he’s under contract until 2010. If he is available, would the Jays be able to put a package together to try to deal for him? Would Cecil or Snider be a must in this sort of deal?
MW: Fielder is signed through 2010, but not eligible for free agency until after the 2011 season. Cecil or Snider would be an absolute demand of the Brewers, and rightfully so. Maybe both.
- Sammichael,
in all sports incl. baseball there definitely seems to be cycles that occurr within conferences & divisions (and the teams within these) moving upward & downward in terms of having great playoff success certain yrs. and alternatively scraping the bottom of the barrel other in others.
every few yrs. you’ll see teams go thru the inevitable process of contending, winning, retooling, all the way to totally rebuilding.
it seems to me there’s only one exception in all of sports. you got it. our al east in mlb.
unless of course there’s a cycle playing itself out here too, but it just happens to turn itself over every 15 yrs. or so.
what do yo think michael, solely based on 2 incredible organizations in the sox & yanks or completely due to the only sport with no salary cap structure ?
MW: It’s due to a combination of the lack of a cap and the Yankees’ and Red Sox’ willingness to spend as much as they have to.
- darrell bishopHey Mike,
I am surprised no one has looked at Vernon Well’s commitment to keeping physically fit as a reason for why his bat speed and power has been off lately. I know many people doubted and still doubt the fact that I had a 3 game stint of sitting with Noah Scott and discussing Vernon Wells commitment to fitness.
He said his fitness was great in the off-season when they worked out together frequently, and that they severely slowed down once the season started.
I then told you that Noah had told me over facebook that he was let go as Vernon’s trainer until the off-season, and I know he told me when I asked him to go on your show that its company policy that he cannot communicate with the media about a player.
I love the Jays, and I love everything about baseball, and I have no hatred for any player whom takes a contract rewarded to them, and thus I will not bash anybody. I just wanted your thought about this comment. I also want to formally apologize for you and everyone else taking this all in as hearsay because he wouldn’t come on your show.
MW: Here’s what I think – I don’t think you’re making this stuff up, but I also don’t believe that a professional athlete needs a personal trainer in-season. Wells is at the ballpark everyday, surrounded by a huge training and physical fitness staff, work out equipment, etc. Having a personal trainer during the season would be a little bit of overkill, I think. I don’t believe it shows a lack of commitment to being in shape.
- paoloAfter 133 pitches (the 133rd of which was a mystifying curve, I was there) do you think that an extra day of rest is in order? It would see Doc open the road trip in Texas on Monday, a game that I will also be at. The probables page had him up on Sunday but now it says TBA.
If it’s Janssen on Monday I will cheer him on too (and duck the .44s flying at me.)
MW: It doesn’t say TBA on the Jays’ board. Halladay isn’t going to get an extra day of rest, he had one before the 133-pitch outing. Make sure you’re good and loud in Arlington!
- halladayfanHey Mike,
Have you noticed Vernon’s walk-up music lately?
“I’ve been travellin’ on this road too long – just tryin’ to find my way back home – but the old me is dead and gone”
Any chance this is a tongue in cheek jab at some of the fans who claim he isn’t the same hitter he used to be? Maybe I’m overthinking it.
What’s the most bizarre walk-up music you can remember for a Jays player past or present?
MW: Tiny Dancer for Kevin Millar was pretty good, but I think the topper might have been A.J. Burnett coming out to the New Kids On The Block last season.
- J.Great Jaystalk last night… I listened to it on the way home from the game last night.
Weaver definitely had his A-game (well, A+) last night and I wasn’t suprised by the outcome. I’ve criticized Wells defensively but he made some great catches out there.
Jannsen was not on at all last night and couldn’t get his pitches down I agree. I was quite impressed with Camp’s outing.
You commented last night that the Jays might have used their bench to put up more lefties against Weaver. Besides Inglett, who else is a quality hitter from Las Vegas who can be called up?
As well, with the Dome open and the wind seemingly blowing off the lake, did that contribute to the ball carrying more than usual last night? What are the stats with home runs with the Dome open vs closed?
Thanks for a fantastic blog. I am a fan.
MW: Thanks. I said that the line-up wasn’t well-constructed to beat Weaver last night, but they couldn’t have done anything else except get Inglett in there. No matter what, they were in trouble. I don’t have the numbers about homers when the roof is open or closed, but most believe the ball carries better with the roof closed.
- TimSnider has nor played at Vegas for a couple of games. Injured?
MW: No, just hurt.
- KJToronto Blue Jays
- BenNot perfect but competing
Don’t quibble – enjoy.
Mike,
Do you have any stats on Vernon Wells’ batting average when he swings @ the first pitch, compared to when he does not?
I would believe that his batting average when swinging @ the first pitch must be significantly worse when compared to when he does not swing @ the first pitch. And if this is the case, I’d wish he could see it and learn to discipline himself more @ the plate. I feel like he is wasting many @ bats, which is a significant cause for driving his batting average down overall.
MW: See above. You are @ incorrect.
- DooloxMike,
Janssen has never proven he can be a capable starter over his time in the bigs. He has however proven he can be a valuable reliever. Why not move him back to the pen, and maybe look at other options for the rotation, such as Castro. I also just read Glavine has been released, why not take a flyer on him if he would be willing to come to Toronto.
MW: Your thesis statement is untrue.
- DennyHi Mike,
Purcey was back up to his old tricks again last night – 6 BB’s in only 4.2 innings. It doesn’t look like there has been any improvement at all in his command or consistency, so I doubt that he’ll be back with the big club anytime soon.
Actually, the Jays are getting really poor production out of what was Purcey’s spot in the rotation. The Purcey–>Ray–>Janssen rotation spot sports a troubling 2-6 record a third of the way through the season. That projects to something like 6-18 over the full season – just not good enough in this division obviously.
Halladay’s 9-1 record has masked that hole in the rotation to this point, but the Jays are going to need better production than that to avoid getting buried in the standings.
Even the Litsch–>Tallet spot in the rotation has produced only a 3-4 record so far. It’s getting kind of scary now, as Litsch, Marcum and McGowan are probably still months away and the guys in AAA do not appear to be ready yet. Even that Rzepcynski guy in AA has regressed with his control after a really hot start to the season. Check out his groundball and homer rates – amazing.
Jays still need some help in that rotation.
MW: You’re reading too much into win-loss record of starting pitchers.
- JamieJust something real quick regarding the caller and dropping fly balls to “trade” runners. The fielder must let the ball drop without touching it. Otherwise it can be ruled an intentionally dropped fly (batter out, time called). See rule 6.05(l).
- MarkWhile listening to you last night, I was in a little shocked to hear you suggest your ideal batting order to be.
1)Scutaro
2)Hill
3)Overbay
4)Rolen
5)Lind
6)Wells
7)Rios
8)Barajas
9)Bautista/Inglett
Then you thought about it and backtracked a little realizing batting Rios 7th doesn’t make any sense at all.
I know exactly how you feel Mike, we have too many 5,6,7 hitters and not enough of others. I would have no problem with Rios leading off as I cannot see Scutaro keeping up his OBP of .400 when he’s a career .332 including his hot start this year. But for the meantime, you simply can’t take him out and his leash is extremely long under Cito.
I understand your reasons for Overbay to bat 3rd because of his high OBP, but at this stage in his career and his woes again lefties, this really doesn’t make much sense either. There’s a big log jam in the middle with no legitimate cleanup hitter and it really is a headache trying to move them around.
I think Scutaro is a realistic 8th or 9th hitter and if that’s the case, Rios leading off followed by Hill, Overbay, Wells, Lind, Rolen, Barajas, Bautista, Scutaro.
I know you’re not a big fan of the double leadoff, but I think it would make much more sense than hitting Rios 7th IMHO. Any chance you can reply with a true ideal lineup after thinking about it offair? It really didn’t make much sense to me hearing it last night.
MW: There really isn’t an ideal line-up here because, as I said last night, there are too many 5th-place hitters and no real 3 or 4. I don’t really understand why Overbay’s trouble against lefties should make a difference as to where he hits against righties. You can’t build a line-up around that lefty specialist you might see in the 7th or 8th. I don’t think there’s a reason to pull the plug on Scutaro from the leadoff spot yet, and I don’t think there’s a reason to put Rios there.
- TonyStill lots of games left to play this year…like I said in an earlier post when the Jays were going gangbusters, we need to wait until all games have been played this year before we can give a final assessement of how good this team is. However, the starters better get their act together. Otherwise, it’ll be “Halladay and pray for rain (away games only)” for the rest of the season.
MW: Last I checked, the Jays still led the league in quality starts.
- jimHey Mike just read your latest and loved the insight on Rule 5, further to Jays talk last night, I know that the Jays don’t need anyone right now but what about Holliday from the A’s to fill the Snyder spot (I believe you mentioned a Nick Johnson type), what would it take to get Holliday, and there will be no long term issue as he is a FA. Obviously we wouldn’t trade Snyder (who they would ask for) but what other lower prospect outfielder and young arm do you think could work, if any that is.
Thanks
PS: how you doing? LOL!
MW: I don’t think Holliday is the right fit. His value on the market is likely greater than his value on the field.
- Joe FioriniHi Mike
Any chance the Jays pursue Vicente Padilla or Tom Glavine?
MW: I wouldn’t bet on it.
- MarkMike – I’m sure you saw the two extra umpires sitting in the action seats last night. It’s the 2nd or 3rd time I’ve seen them on a broadcast this year. My son and I howl when we watch them. When a Jays pitcher has a 2 strike count they put on their masks and prepare. My son loves the “epic” out calls on strikeouts.
Do you know the story on these guys ? Any idea which umpire upon which they are paying homage with their calls ?
MW: See above.
- RezActually this is my first time writing so you’ve probably answered other “frustrated” fans as well. Salary has everything to do with production. Why else would you get paid high end salary for mediocre numbers. Granted salaries are given based on past performances, but there is expectation to maintain productivity.
MW: But with Wells, he never really had the kind of year to warrant that salary, and getting paid a bucketload of money doesn’t make him a better player.
- JackHey Mike,
I felt the urge to comment on one of your ideas during last nights Jaystalk.
You mentioned that you would have Overbay batting first or at least in one of the top 3 spots in the order versus righties because of his OBP.
Come on, are you really that serious?
Before you jump all over my disagreement, remember not only do I disagree with you but so does every other manager he’s played for.
He has no speed, can’t move runners, bunt, and he would clog up the base paths. He would certainly play a part in double plays.
Can you remember a leadoff hitter being a 1st baseman?
Maybe Oakland should move Giambi to leadoff.(356 OBP)
How about the 2nd hitter? NO.
What about 3rd? Isn’t your 3rd hitter the best hitter on your team?
I assume your team would be of the moneyball make-up or station to station baseball team.
Thanks for the opportunity to rant on your blog.
Scott
MW: There’s no such thing as clogging up the basepaths. Would you rather he be out? The most important thing for a top of the line-up hitter is to not get out, and Overbay is exceedingly good at that.
- scottWow, the Bluejays sure can be a frustrating team to watch. Even when they score 3 to come back and tie it in the 8th, they still manage to only score one run when they had the bases loaded and nobody out. I’m a little disapointed that Cito didn’t use either Vernon or Scott Rolen to pinch hit for Joe Inglett. The whole team’s hitting with runners in scoring position lately has made me remember how bad it was last year. Don’t want to knock Aaron Hill too much, but leaving 7 runners on base today is not very good.
- BobbyMike,
Not to over analyze every little minute roster move or anything like that but here’s a question for you.
With Jesse Carlson finally falling back to earth – a year later than you predicted at the beginning of ’08 – and the Jays already having exhausted their lefty relief options at AAA (except for Davis Romero, he of the successful recovery from labrum surgery, which still puzzles the hell out of me) why has no one pointed out the success of Ken Takahashi? After he “quietly asked for and was granted his release” in spring training, we were left to assume he headed home. Surprised was I to learn he’s fashioned a tidy 2.84 ERA over 12 innings with the Mets this year. I guess JP was right to start with but just lost faith too quickly.
Granted it’s a small sample but at zero cost might it not have been worthwhile to hang onto him for a while?
Maybe JP kept having recurring visions of Jo Matumoto.
MW: There’s no question the Jays gave up on Takahashi too soon, but he was just so bad in spring training. He looked completely overmatched.
- Rob Smichael,
yup. think you’re right.
so how much longer do you think we have to wait for something similar to this someday occurring (see below) and not so much the order at the top but the order at the bottom (with either of them) flip flopping positions.
1. toronto
2. baltimore
3. tampa bay
4. boston
5. new york
MW: It’s going to be a long, long time.
- darrell bishopHow many non-moves does Cito have to make before people realise that he isn’t a very good manager on the bench? Keeping in League (when his 2nd innings of work are always garbage) and not pinch-hitting for Overbay (who is awful against lefties)are obnoxiously bad.
MW: League’s second innings of work aren’t always garbage, and Overbay had just hit a two-run double against a lefty.
- RenegadeAlso how is it that Bautista is getting to play more than HALF of the Blue Jays games? Looking at this guy’s career stats.. he isn’t very good. Should have cut bait on his huge salary before the season started.
MW: OR you could look at it and say that Bautista is having a really good year – hitting lefties very well and posting an OBP over .400 against righties. He has deserved to play as much as he has.
- RenegadeMike
There was a lot of emphasis on Cito not ph in the bottom of the ninth inning but I thought the real issue
was the double play in the top of the ninth inning. Why did Hill and Scutaro not go home right away or after the out at second to try to prevent the go ahead run? If it was earlier in the game it makes sense for the double but not in the ninth inning. Was this a call from the dugout?
MW: That can’t be a call from the dugout, it was the way the play developed, though Scutaro definitely made a mistake. I’ll expand on it in today’s post.
- Fred3 wins in 18 games. great way to spend the rest of the summer.
MW: Three wins in 18 games? Sure, unless you count the last three games of the sweep of Chicago as wins.
- ginoMike i caught you lying on Vernon Wells….LAst week you were arguing how great he had been in his 7 seasons,being 5 were really good NOW ur arguing he was never good enough to warrant his contract….does ur opinion of him just go week to week based on his production ? Seems that way…
MW: You caught me lying. That’s hilarious. I stand by what I said about Vernon last week, because it was true. But it’s also true that that didn’t warrant a $!26 million contract.
- MikeMW: The thing is, those pitchers will likely the exception, not the rule, with hundreds of guys who just “blew their arms out” being out of the game in their mid 20s.
You are 100% correct MW (grammar mistakes aside). This subject has been studied in great detail by Dr. Ron Taylor and he has concluded that serious pitching injuries are far less frequent now than they were when pitchers routinely threw 130+ pitches per game and 250+ innings per season.
____________________________
From the Sports Illustrated article on the next 300 game winner.
“After Randy gets it, no one’s going to have a shot for a long, long time.”
MW: Go back 20 years and you’ll find lots of articles that said the same thing about Tom Seaver or some such. And that’s not a grammatical error, that’s a typo. I should have put “were”. I don’t proofread the answers to the comments, there’s just not enough time.
- KitIm with you tho Mike in terms of basing a guys production comparative to his salary is just dumb…..Its no players fault a GM wants to overpay him and suddenly will not make him a better player….People need to stop blaming Wells for not living up to his deal and blame mgmt for givign it to him when clearly most of baseball folks knew he wasnt worth that kind of money….esp to a team with a limited budget.
- MikeJust finished listening to the game on Thursday Vs LA. If there was ever a case to move Lind up in the order and move Rios down it’s today. Yes Rios has been a bit better in the last few weeks, but I’m sorry we can’t have Rios wiffing 5 times in a game. And Mike I know you love Rios but even you have to admit that was a ridiculous display by Rios today. I maintain that he is one of the most overrated outfielders. Above average arm but average or below average at the plate.
MW: There’s no question Rios was terrible today, but he’s been one of the Jays’ best hitters for going on a month now.
- daveNO EXCUSE TO SIT ROLEN, IF HE SAT TODAY, HE BETTER NOT SIT SATURDAY…
Sorry for being upset, but
1.) Thursday was an off day.
2.)He sat Saturday, a day game after a night game (which in my opinion he doesnt have to do every day game after a night game, at least DH him if your worried about his sholder).
3.An off day Monday.
4.) He sat today, again a day game after a night game, and not even used as a pinch hitter.
This excuse that he likes to give a player a whole day off when he gives them a day off, makes no sense in rolens situation because he hits soooooooo well, and his defence is so much better then any 3b replacement. Resting every now and then is understandable. But if we have meaningful games in July and August, he CANNOT SIT THIS MUCH.
Sorry again….
MW: Except that maybe having Rolen sit this much is what’s keeping him healthy and productive.
- paoloMW: As for Janssen, I see a guy who gets outs. He doesn’t miss a lot of bats, but when he’s on, he misses a lot of barrels. Marcum doesn’t have a big heater, either.
You think he has more control of his opponents BABIP than other pitchers do ?? Wonderful!!
What happened to “reasonable and rationale” comments?
If this is really a pitching skill, then why don’t guys like Clemens, Maddux, Halladay, Johan, etc have better than average BABIP over the long term. And if they can’t do it, then it’s gotta be pretty obvious that there is no such skill, just like clutch hitting.
MW: I haven’t studied BABIP enough, but I don’t believe that every pitcher ever’s BABIP is .300.
- the stat ladyThe Jays official website on MLB had an article up yesterday titled, “Rios starting to round into his usual form.” Not quite sure what they meant by “usual form” but I had anyway hoped he was out of his slump.
Now though, today, 5 strikeouts in 5 ABs!?! What gives? Is he in or out of the slump? Or is this just another form of the SI cover jinx?
Mike, what do they call 5 ABs with 5 K’s anyway? I know that 4 K’s is the “Golden-Sombrero,” but what is the rare 5 called and how rare is this dubious accomplishment?
I’m worried that the Rios and Wells contracts are going to become an albatross for the Jays. These two guys have just not become the kind of consistent performers that any team would want to lock-up for such a long term like that. The bottom-line is that they can’t be relied upon to perform on a consistent basis.
I know that hindsight is 20/20, (and I supported both contracts at the time) but these two contracts are starting to look like some bizarre cross between an Adrian Beltre (for dollars) and a Todd Helton (for term). These contracts are not quite Pavano-esque but they are now looking like bad contracts, Mike. The Jays just gave these guys too many years IMO.
MW: So many of those years are left, and neither Wells nor Rios is on the wrong side of 30.
- Jamie“Even when they score 3 to come back and tie it in the 8th, they still manage to only score one run when they had the bases loaded and nobody out.”
Well if Overpaid just opened his eyes and scored on Barjas hit, then Batista would have gone to third and would have scored on Scutaro’s fly ball. This would have given the Jays a 6-5 lead and Downs would have pitched the 9th inning. So actually Overpaid’s lack of base running acumen probably cost the Jays more than Rios’ 5K game. By the way Alexis, that is one heck of an achievment, one that not too many guys reach.
MW: Wait a minute. Are you Kit or The Stat Lady? I can’t stand this split personality stuff. Unless I get an explanation, I’m not posting any more comments from Kit, Alex or The Stat Lady.
- Kitthe reason we have to use multiple names is because you keep deleting posts. I have used about 20 different names on my blog cuz you get mad and delete my post.
MW: I deleted the rest of your post, but I wanted to leave this part in, because the truth is that it doesn’t matter how many names you use – if your comments are insulting, offensive, obscene or just plain stupid, they’re not going to be posted.
- ginoMW: The thing is, those pitchers will likely the exception, not the rule, with hundreds of guys who just “blew their arms out” being out of the game in their mid 20s.
Mike, I hope you’re kidding. As someone who followed baseball closely in that period – late 60′s to early 80′s – I can tell you that was NOT the case, by any means.
If you take the 1974 season as an example I can identify the following starting pitchers who MIGHT have “blown out their arms” by their mid-twenties:
Wayne Garland
Bill Travers
David Clyde
Pete Broberg
Bart Johnson
Dennis Blair
Randy Jones
These pitchers MAY have “blown out their arms”, or they may have had brief careers due to ineffectiveness. The overwhelming majority of pitchers who were in the starting rotations in 1974 had careers that lasted at least into their early thirties, and many beyond that.
I admire your knowledge of the current game of baseball, but, frankly, your response above is utterly untrue.
MW: It’s really not, because I think you missed the point. The overwhelming majority of the guys to whom I was referring as having “blown their arms out” are guys who did it before they reached the majors, guys of whom you (and I) have never heard.
- KenRe notion of a rebel, I was not referring to spelling. It is possible to have 2 thoughts in one blog.
I was referring to your comment re fan interference.
MW: I still don’t understand what you meant.
- Barbha ha i am kit, and stat lady, and alex, lol. Thats ridiculous don’t post their stuff, and i only stated what i did about Rolen sitting because it was done too much in excess the last few games. I understand once a week (probably saturdays), but not 2x a week, hes really a key player this year for our team.
MW: The thing is, the stat lady comes up with some good stuff every once in a while.
- paoloHey Mike… Just wondering why the Yanks & Bosox with their deep hitting line-ups of proven all-stars don’t hesitate to shake things up when their teams are struggling offensively even for a relatively short period of time but the Jays absolutely, almost stubbornly, refuse to try something new.At this point don’t you think that it is time to split up Wells & Rios? How about this line up… Scutaro, Rios, Hill, Lind, Rolen, Wells and the 7,8 & 9? I know you’re going to say this is he Cito way but at some point wouldn’t someone have to step in and insist upon a change say JP?
MW: It’s not going to happen. And why would you want Hill hitting 3rd? He’s on an 0-for-17 run.
You’d keep Hill out of the number three spots because of an 0-17 slump?
Are you serious?
That’s just a few bad games.
MW: Yes, it is, but a few bad games were enough for people to cut bait on Rios and Wells. I don’t see Hill as a third-place hitter, though. He’s doing very well out of the two-hole – if he walked more, he’d be a perfect fit there.
- joshThe Sun had a big feature article about the anniversary of the Dome. It was very, very amusing that out of all the Dome memories that were captured on film that they chose to show the amorous couple spotted in the hotel, in a fairly erotic (for a daily paper) pose.
MW: I did see that in the Sun. You expected anything less?
- Rob M