1:50 AM Eastern
Like the song says, “You take the good, you take the bad………..”. Tonight, we got both, but the bad resonates a whole lot more.
Cito Gaston, the manager, is one of the best in the business - and maybe one of the best there has ever been - at the behind-the-scenes stuff. Instilling confidence, projecting a calm confidence, getting players to go through a brick wall for him, getting the absolute best out of the people who play for him, managing egos. He’s not one of the best in the business at some of the in-game stuff, or at least, he does things that a lot of people disagree with as far as in-game stuff is concerned.
You can’t argue with two World Series rings, but you can argue with stuff like batting John McDonald second because “that’s where the shortstop hits” and he doesn’t like to disturb the rest of the line-up. He did that with Alfredo Griffin back in 1992, too, when he gave Alomar a day off.
You can argue a lot with what Cito did tonight, leaving Travis Snider and Lyle Overbay on the bench late while allowing Kevin Millar and Jose Bautista to come to bat against Joe Nathan and Jesse Crain in the 9th and 10th, respectively.
Gaston believes in the “lose one now to win two or more later” strategy, and it’s a reasonable school of thought. I just don’t think it applies here. By allowing Bautista and Millar to hit there, Cito is showing confidence in them. Though they’re (far) likelier to fail than the (much better) options available on the bench, Gaston believes that the confidence he shows in them will give them more confidence in themselves, and so if he needs them in that same situation later in the season, they’ll be better-served for having had this experience.
As far as that applies to Millar and Bautista, well, I don’t think it does at all. I don’t care if those two are looking over their shoulders late in a game when a righty reliever is in. They should be, because they shouldn’t be hitting in that situation if there are options. The confidence thing is why you let Travis Snider hit against a lefty in the 10th inning of a tie game, and it’s why you leave Ricky Romero in the game in the 6th inning with the bases loaded and nobody out, but it’s not why you let Millar hit in the 9th (and allow him to continue to play defense in extra innings), nor is it why you let Bautista hit in the 10th.
I know it’s only nine games in, but is there any doubt that Snider is one of the Jays’ biggest offensive weapons? How do you lose a game in 11 innings with your best bullet still in the chamber? It’s infuriating.
That said, if you are one of those who believes that Cito’s presence, calm, experience and knowledge have helped the Jays to this great start, and to their terrific finish last year, then you can’t complain about tonight, because this is part of the package. Everyone else is just going to have to get used to it. Still - gaaaaaaaaah. Awful.
Just so it’s not all on a down note, it was terrific of Gaston to let Romero work through that jam in the 6th, and he came through with flying colours. Of course, as much as it was a chance to let the kid go through that and try to work his way out of it, it was also that Gaston had only had one starter get out of the 5th inning over the last four games, and the bullpen needed the rest. Still, there’s where you lose one now to win a bunch later, for sure.
I also think, by the way, that using Snider against lefties would be along the same lines, but we haven’t gotten there yet.
I can’t say enough about the way Romero has pitched in his first two outings. I didn’t think he’d be long for the bigs, at least not in his first shot, and he’s blown me away. Fantastic again tonight, and if not for Aaron Hill bobbling what should have been a double-play ball in the 4th, he more than likely gets a win for his efforts. I look forward to watching him (hopefully) a lot more often than I thought I would this year.
Here’s tonight’s edition of The JaysTalk, for your listening pleasure:
The Raptors play their final game Wednesday, so we’re bumped to TALK820 in the Toronto listening area for the last time this year. Make sure to tune in to listen to Scott Richmond try to whittle down that career .403/.427/.736 mark against left-handed hitters.
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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Cito’s philosophy shouldn’t include trying to install confidence in a late-30’s Kevin Millar and a bench player in Jose Bautista. These people aren’t 10 years old, they should understand the business. If I were Snider, I’d probably be more insulted (though I’d obviously keep it to myself, like I’m sure he is/did, because the thought must have crossed his mind) that Cito doesn’t have enough faith to let him hit against a righty in extra innings. It’s just tough to watch that happen!
MW: Instill, but you’re right.
- BrendanSnider and Overbay were probably still tired from unleashing on the homerdome Monday night.
- Mauer Poweri disagree with cito’s strategy of “lose one now to win two or more later” because what if those “two or more wins later” are meaningless wins when the jays are out of the playoff race. i would think you would just try to win regardless always! mike, do you know if other managers strategize this way and do you think that cito’s help on the bench gives suggestions on moves or non moves such as last night?
MW: You can’t manage every game like it’s Game 7 of the World Series, because then you’d be Carlos Tosca. I don’t have an issue with losing a battle to win a war, every manager should do it, just properly. Yes, Cito has Brian Butterfield to put a bug in his ear on the bench, but Gaston has the final say.
- andrew4th place Mike - you can write that in ink. I think you have rose colored glasses on. there’s no pitching, and the one stud (the BEST in baseball) should be traded for the best offer. Gaston should be letting Snider develop against all pitching(plus I have him on my fantasy team!)…just my opinion - it will be fun to see what happens.
MW: What’s the benefit of trading Roy Halladay for the best offer?
- GaryI agree with you all they way about snider being left on the bench when we got a shot to win it in extra innings. I know no one was ever on base, but with that dude up, he can crush one out of there in a hurry and his confidence level must be soaring after two huge bombs 24 hrs before that. No complaints after the first nine and just like Iron Maiden once sang .666, the number of the beast! I’ll take that winning percentage every nine games for sure, especially when a cleveland road series is tossed in. If the Jays can win 4 and drop just three agaisnt minny and oakland this week, i’ll be a happy camper.
- Dave BrantfordHi Mike,
Just getting back into the blog again for the first time since last year. I tried reading it during the off season, but I wasn’t into the once-a-week-or-whenever-you-felt-like-it bloggage.
Anyway, about the decisions that Cito made last night…
Every manager is going to make bad decisions over 162 games, but these are not mistakes that Cito is going to learn from so he won’t do them again next time. As you said on the JaysTalk, HE WILL DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING NEXT TIME!!! This is his mentality. The mistakes that Cito made are enormous, you can’t just sweep them under the rug and I don’t want to hear people say, “That’s just the way Cito manages.” I work at IBM. If I made a huge mistake to cost us a big account, I would be fired. My boss would not say, “That’s just the way Kris does his job.”
Snider is the future of this team, so his confidence is all I care about. Millar and Bautista are not going to be key cogs on any contending team (don’t even think about mentioning Millar on the Red Sox, that was then , this is now). Having confidence in those guys might make them hit .245 instead of .240
That game was enough to make me fire Cito. No, I am not overreacting. It is a pattern of managing that will only cause more problems in the future while mediocre players are allowed to “perform” in key situation when better options are available.
Call me crazy, but I would rather have a manager who is a disaster in the clubhouse, but a genius during a game. They don’t award trophies for clubhouse demeanor.
MW: If you made a huge mistake to cost you a big account, but you had two IBM World Series rings, and got way more and way bigger accounts than you lost, you’d probably get to keep your job.
- KrisHey Mike, it feels strange to be so positive following a loss but I was incredibly impressed by Romero’s outing. He looks very composed out there and while I know it’s tiny sample size it really looks like he may have arrived. Time will tell…
I feel like the awful in-game management today is an unfortunate side effect of the offense coming through so often early on. Cito seems to hold awfully close to the old if-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it line of thinking. But like you say, good with the bad.
My question has to do with Bill Murphy. The move leaves the team with seven left-handers and five righties. Having four lefties coming out of the pen was hard enough to defend last year when we had four righties in the rotation, but this is just overkill. If the Jays just wanted a non-prospect to eat some mopup innings, what better candidate than the Non-Prospect himself, Dirk Hayhurst? He killed it in the spring, and at the very least he would balance the staff 50-50 righty-lefty.
I know we’re talking about the 12th man on the staff, but today’s game in particular showed exactly the problem with having so many lefties on the staff. All three of the guys we threw tonight were soft-tossers, and you just knew that eventually one of those right-handed hitters was going to lean out over the plate and that’s exactly what Crede did.
MW: Having Murphy doesn’t change the handedness of the bullpen at all.
- SimonHey Mike, are you a Blue Jay fan or is it just your job? Im not being a smartass, I really want to know if you actually get fired up for a game, like Mondays comeback game for instance?
MW: I’m happy when they win, for sure, and I was over the moon in 92 and 93, but I can’t be a fan anymore, not in this job in this country, at least.
- Dave Brantforddo u think Wells should be in the cleanup spot? Based on the numbers for hr and rbi’s, should Cito maybe flip him and Lind perhaps?
MW: I don’t think Wells is a legit clean-up man, but I don’t think Lind is yet, either. The Jays really don’t have one.
- Dave BrantfordWilner;
Managers can’t have it both ways.
Managers don’t get to say that everyone on the team matters and then turn around and play favorites with the “good” players.
Here’s why:
You mentioned you’re not against having Bautista and Millar on the team and then make this distorted argument about how they are not as “important” to give confidence to than the more talented players. I believe “so what” was what you said.
When a manager allows that kind of thinking, what you get is Roger Clemens or Vince Carter: me-first athletes who feel entitled to everything (and who rarely win it all). But they’re plenty confident! Too bad about all those other guys that play on the team.
I don’t think the players on the bench are thinking”where is the kid?”. They’re thinking: “Man, this guy gives everyone an opportunity. When I get in there I’m going to be afforded the same chance. I’m going to make sure he NEVER takes me out.” The guy at the plate is thinking “I’m getting every opportunity here. If I screw it up, I have no complaints.”
And, when Scott Rolen/Vernon Wells and even GASP! the kid Snider get hurt…these guys are ready and MORE than willing to play. And I’m willing to bet that time they fill in for probably exceeds the benefit of one at-bat in a close game where they were hardly at fault in and of themselves. And the young kids learn to wait their turn in line until they are afforeded that same respect.
Not to mention the fact that Cito is not an idiot. He understands the mathups, and he won’t keep making the same move forever. The difference will be, everyone will accept the move–becuase they had their chance and failed. Then when he does make a move,it reverberates with the players much more than yanking them back and forth based on a statistical advantage in a sport where everything is a game of inches. Cito’s already done this with Overbay. Gave him confidence, and then replaced him with Millar. You don’t see Overbay complaining much about that, do you? He got his shot.
Sounds good to me. I’ll take a few a-bats in a tough loss for the gestalt of the team any day.
You need to go watch “Coach Carter” a few times (in a sport much less team oriented than baseball with fewer players)….
Player A: Coach, you just kicked our leading scorers off the team!! What’re we gonna’ do?
Coach: I guess we’ll have new leading scorers, won’t we?
Thanks for reading.
MW: You make a very good argument, but I still disagree. Millar is a guy who knows his role, realizes why he’s here, and understands that he’s not going to get a lot of playing time. Whether Cito leaves him in in a situation like last night or not isn’t going to affect the way he carries himself. It might with Bautista, but as I said last night, who cares? He’s not a guy who is going to be a key cog. If (when?) Rolen gets hurt, he’ll have to play more, but the odds are very much against him re-inventing himself as a dangerous everyday hitter, regardless of his mental state. Snider is the guy you want to develop, and you’re stuck paying Overbay $8 million next year, so he’s a guy on whom work could pay dividends. Overbay never got his shot, by the way. We shall see, though, if you’re right and Cito will eventually do things differently. And wasn’t Coach Carter about basketball? WAY more of a team sport than baseball.
- David MoroHey Mike,
You’re openly critical and quick to second-guess how Cito runs the club.
Have you ever been openly critical and quick to second-guess anything J.P. Ricciardi has done?
MW: Go back and check my posts about the Barajas and Eckstein signings last year.
- Ken PaganThe long and the short of the last post is:
Today’s scrub is tomorrow’s starter; and expectation breeds performance. If anybody is in teaching, they should explain “pygmalion in the classroom” to wilner.
- David MoroYou didn’t touch on the Carlson situation in your blog. But on your show, you wondered why Cito left him in after the Morneau at-bat. I think there could be two reasons. First, as you say, the Jays have had one starter get out of the 5th in the last 4 games, which means the bullpen has been over worked. The other is Gardenhire had Kubel and Buscher on the bench. I think Cuddyer would have stayed in to face Camp. Then Kubel would have pinch hit for Crede and MAYBE Buscher for Young. But the match up I think Cito was avoiding in this case was Camp vs. Kubel. Camp maybe “death to righties” but lefties hit .356 off him last year, .350 career.
MW: Yeah, Camp was pretty awful against lefties, and that may well have been why Cito stuck with Carlson.
- Jeffin your opinion where does the blue jays’ offence rank among the AL east division , where will it rank when its all said and done?
MW: Right now? Top of the list. At the end of the year? Middle of the pack.
- nickThat last comment sounded pretty snarky, so let me do the work to explain the reference (should you need it).
Smart kids are the control in a study. “Dumb” kids are told that the admin made a mistake and that they were all smart (after a fake test).
“Dumb” kids outstrip smart kids more than 3 to 1. Point? Expectation breeds performance.
It probably works pretty well with players who are already pretty talented to be where they are anyway.
MW: Expectation can’t make a .230 hitter a .300 hitter.
- David MoroHi Mike. I am as frustrated as you are that Snider didn’t hit for Bautista in the 10th. I don’t like Bautista in the first place except as an occasional defensive replacement and to leave him in extra innings is hard to defend. I’m less passionate about Overbay as I doubt his ability to top Millar’s groundout.
MW: Only because you don’t actually care to see how good a hitter Overbay is. For whom do you like Bautista as a defensive replacement?
- ZackHello Mike
There are things that managers do that drives you absolutely bonkers. You are right, Cito’s move for leaving his guns unused in the game is baffling. I can see him not wanting to use Snider. HE wants to bring Snider up slowly.
I am really happy with Romero. Wow… good pitcher. Let’s hope he continues.
Mike, can you reason why the Jays brought out Murphy instead of the others, such as Wolfe or Accardo. What ever happened to those two. I thought they were pretty good pitchers?
Francis
MW: They are. My guess is they were looking for a guy to be the long man in the ‘pen. Wolfe and Accardo don’t fit the bill.
- francisGood analysis of Cito, I was frustrated with his decision to leave Snider and Overbay on the bench.
Your points about when to leave someone in as a confidence builder and future investment vs when not too are on target.
I have been appreciative of the way he has handled the pitchers so far this year, having a good balance of patience and quick hook.
The only way I can justify Cito’s benching of Snider is if he has a plan in mind where when someone starts a game they finish it, so if Snider starts vs a righty and and then a lefty comes in, Snider stays in the game and this is how he gets his at bats vs leftys early in the season.
After a few weeks of this City might change things up, hopefully.
MW: Hopefully. And equally hopefully the plan you mentioned isn’t in place, because that’d be extraordinarily counter-productive.
- J.RAre you (the generic, broader “you”) telling me that Brian Tallet gives this team a better chance at winning than I would? I don’t think $5 million is too much to ask for.
MW: Nope, I’m not. Nor is the broader “we”, I don’t think. But Tallet will only be asked to make three starts or so.
- Pedro Martinezhey mike;
- robert.sJust heard that they brought up murphy, but havn’t brought mills up and instead have given the start to tallet, not sure what mgmt was thinking. Also in complete agreement as replacing bautista and millar with snider and overbay would have been prudent. keep up the good work.
Mike - I totally agree with you in regards to the lefty-righty matchup, and that if I were managing the team, I would’ve had Snider and Overbay in there (especially with Overbay’s defense). But had we been managing the team (and made those moves) the game would have likely been over before it was as Millar made an OUTSTANDING catch, preventing a first and third, one out situation… as opposed to the runner on second, 2 out reality we saw. So I guess we do need to take the good and the bad, but sometimes we need to realize that the bad may not have been so bad (although can you please tell me why Bautista is playing LF instead of Lind? Give the kid some time out there - he’s adapting well to DH, but throw the kid a bone every once and a while…)
MW: Overbay is a better defensive player than Millar, so there’s every reason to believe he’d have made the same great catch. And being a right-handed fielder, he wouldn’t have had to go as far to make it. As for the Lind thing, I agree, except that I’ll bet that so long as Lind is raKing in the DH spot, Cito will leave him there and make a good argument not to mess with things.
- DanielHi Mike:
I really enjoyed your JaysTalk marathon the other day/night. Wonderful radio.
Cito is a fine manager and should be beloved by all for the two Rings. Having said that, I contemplated travelling to spring training to HECKLE Cito! In a friendly way. The game last night illustrates why.
My suggestion is to compile a list of CMEs (Cito Managerial Errors) over the course of the season. Not to be cruel, but as a fair and balanced review of his management.
Good moves could be recorded as well…
We’ve seen this act before. Let’s verify it.
Also, I support keeping Cito as manager - this is not Cito bashing.
Thanks Mike
What a great year so far
ALSO please bang the drum for Travis to play every day. This is RIDICULOUS. Remember Olerud? Even that drove me wild.
cheers
MW: Feel free to do that list.
- Rob SpikeMike - I don’t disagree with Cito keeping Millar in late, since he crushed 2 balls earlier to LF that would have been homeruns in most other AL parks (LF line is 343′ in HHHDome). So I think Cito felt he was swinging the bat well (even though the starter was a lefty and reliever a righty).
I do share your frustration at how that game turned out because every win in April is gold. Too many times in recent years a slow start has the Jays playing catch-up all year.
- Rezi’m sorry can’t figure this one out –snider hits 2 home runs the night before,then gets benched what about benching rios instead
MW: Easy to figure out - a lefty started for Minnesota last night.
- RonMike - I agree with you whole heartedly with respect to Snider not having batted against Crain in the 10th. There is no reason for a hot hitter to be sitting in a close ball game. especially considering the power he has the power to end the game!
- KelvinMike. I agree with you, Travis Snider and Lyle Overbay should have been in pinch-hitting situations. To quote NFL coach Herm Edwards, “You play to win the game, you don’t play just to play!” Isn’t that the goal of every team in every professional league.
Hope Scott Richmond gives a solid effort this evening.
By the way Mike, in September the Beatles 12 U.K albums will be re-re-released in digitally re-mastered form, using new technology that wasn’t available when they were originally re-released in 1987.
Peter, St.Catharines
- PeterMike
Great job as always. While I don’t agree with the Kens and Prokopecs of the world, as long as they don’t go off the deep end, they do remind us of how the JP bashers have had to change their tune.
Regarding next year, a rotation of Halladay, McGowan, Marcum, and a solid four candidates of Litsch/Purcey/Romero/Cecil for two starting spots is a very enviable situation - health notwithstanding. Anyway, I see SS and 1B as the two most obvious areas that need an upgrade to take on the NYY/Sox. Any thoughts on who is a Free agent next year or a possible trade partner?
MW: I don’t think they’re in such bad shape at first. The best candidates out there as free agents will be Carlos Delgado, Aubrey Huff, Nick Johnson and Chad Tracy. There are no great shortstops who will be free agents, but everyone thinks the Brewers will be willing to deal J.J. Hardy.
- DanWell, we know with Richmond pitching tonight, the Jays are going to have to score at least 4.
Solid 8 from Romero. Good to see, and the bullpen needed a bit of a breather. I don’t think the extra 3 innings helped though.
This team is exciting because of the youth and how they are performing. There is also alot of veteran presence that is performing. The way the Yanks and Red Sox are pitching horribly early, this could be a very interesting year.
Here’s hoping that the Jays get rewarded for their solid play on this road trip with some butts in the seats at the Rogers Centre this weekend against the A’s.
MW: I wouldn’t bet on it, though that would be great to see.
- Aaron KerI thought the manager did not actually matter that much to a team in terms of wins and losses. Im obviously paraphrasing but this is what I took from your comments about Gibby when everyone and their mother was asking for him to be fired.
MW: He doesn’t, but when the mistakes are glaring, he obviously can. A manager can’t so much win you games as lose you them.
- KJDCouldn’t agree more with your blog there Mike. Why Snider and even Overbay were riding the pines in extra innings is hard to understand. Why two hot bats from the night before were sitting for the whole game is questionable.
Yes, behind the scenes Cito works his magic with players young and seasoned vets. However I would guess there were more than a couple of guys wondering why late in the game Cito didn’t go to his strength as to hitting.
You can work all the magic you want behind the scenes and away from game time and be successful doing so. However, that magic and confidence can soon turn to questions when not followed up by some obvious - expected moves on the field and at the plate late in a game that your team worked to take to extra innings.
Trying to show and instill confidence in one or two sub-par hitters may in fact work the opposite in removing confindence in those sitting and chomping at the bit for a shot at winning the game. If you leave your young pitcher out there like he did - the least you can do is show him your going to reward him by sending your best to the dish when the time comes!
I know players need a day off once in while - but nine games in and a young gun to boot - nah not a chance at this time of the season and especially at that time of the game.
Cito, it seems will very often go against the grain as to knowing what others think should happen during a game and go his way (usually the opposite)only to have it blow up in his face. It does tick you off for sure - I for one was stunned not to hear either Snider or Overbays’ name being called out as to pinch hitting! You can bet the other dugout was breathing a big sigh of relief seeing Cito, play it his way.
You can’t win em all for sure - but when you loose you better have done so with having used up all your best to remove all doubt as to whether or not you could have pulled it out.
Second guessing a manager is what we all do best - however I doubt very much there would have been any second guessing whatsoever if the Jays had lost 3-2 after inserting either or both of Snider and Overbay when the “obvious” time arose to do so!
Your blog, then Mike may very well have been along the lines of sometimes, on some nights, your best just “aint” good enough!
Thank You.
- Bob from BurlingtonMike,
I totally concur with your school of thought on Cito’s managing style [or lack thereof]in certain situations last night. I definitely think Shawn Camp should’ve been brought in for Carlson after he retired the lefty. Contrary to Jerry and Alan’s belief that you manage a 162 game season and not game by game, I believe the whole is the sum of its parts. If you don’t make the best possible moves in every given situation, then you’re giving more creedence to hurting a guys feelings/confidence, rather than trying to put yourself in the best possible position to try to win the game. I know Cito’s virtues far outweigh his vices (there is absolutley no question about that), but I hope he starts taking more stock in the value of optimal matchups in certain situations. Also, when do you think we can expect to see Travis Snider bumped up in the batting order? I shudder to think he’ll be batting lower than Barajas for much longer.
Thanks Mike & keep up the great work!
MW: I wouldn’t be surprised to see Snider moved up to 8th as soon as next week.
- BernardMike,
Last night was the first chance I’ve had to watch Romero pitch and I was very, very impressed. He pounded the strike zone all night and pitched himself out of bases loaded, no-outs jam - outstanding!
Knowing Cito’s style from his first go-around with the Jays, I wasn’t surprised at all to see him leave Millar and Bautista in there to finish the game. My guess is that “showing confidence” is only part of the equation though particularly when it comes to veteran players. I think he also likes to reward guys (this line-up got it done against a tough lefty in Cliff Lee) and he seems disinclined toward making changes during the game unless forced. Playing the percentages is not the Cito way.
By the way, is Janssen still on track for a May call-up?
- Rob TheriaultI see from a post yesterday that you believe Janssen will be up mid-May - cheers.
MW: You’re welcome.
- Rob TheriaultMike,
This is off topic, I was looking at the standings for the national league east, and Florida has jumped out to a 6-2 start. Year in and year out florida with their miniscule payroll makes such a compelling statement. On the flip side in the AL east
Each year there is talk of how the Jays have trouble staying in it partly because of the division. I would have to say that the NL east with Atlanta,New York and Philly is no pushover division, and is probably just a little less tougher than the AL east.
MW: It’s a lot less tougher, but what “compelling statement” does Florida make year in and year out? A good start? Cool. Over the last three years, the Blue Jays have 23 more wins than the Marlins, and they’ve had a better record every season. Please fill me in on your point.
- ThomasMike, great shows so far this year, looking forward to the other hundred or so this summer.
I gotta ask you about the #3 spot in the Jays order. I accept that the season is still extremely young, but how do you feel about hitting Scott Rolen in the 3 hole for now? He’s smoking the ball, a veteran guy, not trying to do too much and he looks like a totally rejeuvenated hitter this year, back to his old self almost.
Rios seems to be pressing a bit, his behaviour and body language are also questionable (you can blatantly see his frustration when he tops a ball that he was trying to hit out of the ballpark). I like any of Rolen, Lind, even Travis Snider in the 3 spot right now over Rios. Surely Cito will want to give him 5-10 more games to get it going but if he’s still homerless and struggling by then I hope that Cito isn’t THAT old school and he switches it up. Cheers Mike
MW: It’s going to take a lot for Gaston to switch up the line-up to that extent, especially when the team as a whole is hitting so well. I don’t mind a big bump up for Rolen, the way he’s going, obviously.
- PatMike,
- DennisYou have to be impressed with Romero. There has been alot of talk in the past how the Jays should have taken Tulowitzki instead of him. But right now the way our pitching rotation is decimated I would much rather have Romero pitching the way he is than Tulowitzki in the lineup. Two starts does not make a career but there is no reason to think Romero cannot be a solid #2 or #3 starter if he can consistantly throw the ball the way he has so far. You definatly can see why he was taken #6 overall. He has great stuff and seems to have a pretty good makeup. Not to mention from some of his interviews seems like a great person.
Wow, Mr. Richmond owns one ghastly line vs. LHBs.
Let’s hope Lyle and Travis can be used more effectively in the future. No matter how frustrated we were feeling as listeners/watchers I’m sure it doesn’t compare to the level that those guys were feeling.
Do you think Cito will slot McDonald in as the shortstop for Halladay’s next start? I have been very impressed by Scutaro’s start on both sides of the ball but Johnny Mac’s gotta blow the dust off his glove some day! The fact that he’ll almost certainly be dealing with at least half a dozen ground-balls through the course of the game is as good an excuse as any to get him some time at short.
MW: I sure hope so. He’s the only position player who hasn’t started a game yet.
- KPMike as I was watching the game last night, I had the same thought about not bringing in Overbay and Snider. Not only are both the better options at the plate, they are both better defensively than Millar and Bautista although Millar made a great play. I was scratching my head to be sure. Also doesn’t not bringing in Snider and Overbay in those situations send a message to them about Cito’s confidence in Snider to hit with the game on the line? I still am really happy about the way the year has started and Romero looks really impressive. I will end with a question, Is Janssen pitching yet or is there any update on when we can expect him back with the big team. Tallet as a starter even temporarily isn’t comforting
MW: Janssen will throw a simulated game on Friday.
- KenHello mike, it was a tough loss last night…Most of the time I do agree with you but I was listening to Jays talk after the game & I thought you were being way too hard on Cito…No manager in the history of MLB has perfect methods of managing…Let me stress that again, even Hall of Fame managers like Tony Larussa style of managing don’t get it right close to 100%. Great managers just got to get it right enough to win a lot of games. Preferable winning .600 of games. Winning is what counts. It’s just one game. When Gibby was managing last year, you agreed with his decisions a lot more than Cito’s…Like Gibby, you’re a stats person, understood…& what was his record?..The bottom line in this business is wins & losses. Cito likes to have faith in players. Sometimes it doesn’t work. Just like going by stats. But going by his track record, it will work a lot more than not. Sometimes you can go by the book & play percentages & still loose. It’s a long 162 game season & there’s 153 to go…
So just relax & you were saying if this was last year, people would be craping on Gibbons. True, but he already had a over a full season before & his record is not that good. Citos is…Their record is still 6-3 now & Cito’s record when he took over is still around .590…Gibbons was not. If the Jays are playing around .500 ball after 70-80 games this season, there will be more criticism for Cito sort of say…
I mean, it seems as soon as Cito makes a mistake, you’re all over it & craping all over him. When Gibbons did, you would say he made a mistake but would let him off the hook. Gibby is probably your friend so mentioning it now & then would let listeners know about why you back him up as much as you do. Besides, there wasn’t that many times you disagreed with him since he went by the book & stats as you do. So, when they loss & made the right move on paper, you would defend it…Plus going by the book & stats almost all the time like with the old management team didn’t get them away from playing .500 ball for almost 3 seasons.
All in all, just a little disappointed in how negative you were last night…You should be talking about the positives like Ricky Romero’s performance. He deserves it. I mean it took you a while to first mention that on Jays talk, the first caller reminded you…Their bullpen is looking a lot better. A clutch 2 out hit by Vernon in the ninth, so there was no giving up…They already have as many come from behind wins as like in the first 100 games of last year?…Lots of great signs from this team as opposed to last years. So, hopefully you can stay positive & keep in mind it’s a long season & there will be more losses like this one but there will be a lot more wins if you’re going by Cito’s record so far in his second stint here.
MW: You’re right, no manager has the perfect method, but lots of managers put their teams in the best position to win every night, and Cito didn’t do that last night. I didn’t let Gibby off the hook when he made mistakes, but everyone who phoned in called for his firing, so I may have seemed to go easy on him.
- Dave FHey Mike,
I know you talked about it in the post but I still don’t understand the reason for Snider sitting. How many teams sit a guy like this, it’s not like he could be tired, he gets to DH half the time. I say play him non-stop.
Also, how do you feel about this start? Does it change what you beleive their ultimate win total will be for the year or do you feel it’s still a bit premature to tell?
MW: Of course it’s still too early. I’m confident that the Jays will win about 82-85 games this year, same as I said before the season to much derision.
- Jersey“Citoism”…Yes as you said it was hard to swallow when Cito left the kid on the bench but ya know … it is only april and not life and death at this time. It is a long season. I am so impressed with the team so far and Cito IS a huge part of the confidence. Travis Snider will likely go 4 for 4 tonight as not playing will make him HUNGRY!!
- gerry in burgessville ontariomichael,
i’m afraid to say but i’m a little bit behind on some current events.
just heard yesterday that glorious old 1050 chum am is now dead & gone.
are you with me, how sad is that one to hear?
just one more reminder that all great things do indeed come to an end…..
MW: When they dumped the CHUM chart in the late ’80s they became dead to me.
- darrell bishopThis comment has nothing to do with the blog heading, but how about that interview last night with BJ Ryan.
He said all the right things, seems like a solid team member.
MW: His teammates do certainly appear to like him.
- J.RMike
Any update on McGowan? You didn’t mention him to one of the callers when you were discussing the 5 SPs later on for this year. Has he been shut down?
MW: Pretty much. We were talking about June, I’ll be surprised if McGowan pitches before mid-August, if even then.
- AriHi Mike
It has been fun watching the Jays so far this year. It appears that the 2006 offence is back.
Last night was like watching your mother in law drive your new Mercedes over a cliff…mixed feelings :-)
I wonder what Cito would say about his decisions last night if he was asked. Is it possible Snider was stiff? What if he gets put in and fails in that clutch situation, what might that have done to his confidence.
It was a good game and a pitchers duel which is always fun to watch
MW: What Cito said was that it’s a tough decision to pinch-hit for a veteran with a rookie, and that he feels doing it his way will lead to more wins down the road.
- Richard from ARAlthough I do agree with your points about Snider coming up for Bautista and perhaps even leaving Carlson a batter too long, I find it ironic that you’re willing to criticize Cito but not a word against J.P. I know you have a man crush on the guy, but it doesn’t give you much credibility.
I’ve learned not to criticize Cito (as two world series’ will do that), and assume he’s got more knowledge of the game in his pinky finger then the two of us have combined.
MW: What’s with the “not a word against J.P.”? When he does something with which I disagree, I’m not shy.
- BobbyNot to quibble, but I have not read anything from Cito’s mouth about his in-game strategy last night. It may be that he knows something about Snider’s conditioning that you are not privy to. Ditto for Overbay.
Consider that last night was the ninth straight game for the Jays. There are four more still to follow before their next scheduled day off. Isn’t it better to keep these guys fresh? They will all have to sit sometime. Last night was Snider’s turn.
If Cito gave Snider the night off to rest, it would have been asking a lot of the rookie to come off the bench cold. It would have been a high pressure situation for Snider who, presumably, would have been without the benefit of afternoon BP.
Asking a less than prepared rookie to jump in against the Minnesota shut-down man could have been a recipe for failure. Such a failure may have unintended consequences.
As you have said before, the 162 game season is a marathon not a race. Marathons are won with preparation, consistency, and repetition. While you may not agree with how that approach played out last night, it is difficult to argue with Cito’s results thus far.
MW: It’s always possible that Cito knows something about a guy’s condition that’s not being made public. That wasn’t the case last night. What was the case was that Cito finds it difficult to use a rookie to pinch-hit for a veteran. As for the rest argument, it was indeed the Jays’ 9th straight day with a game, but the 3rd game in five in which Snider hadn’t played. It wasn’t his “turn to rest”.
- MPDo you think its the in-game tactics that we saw last night that prevented Cito from getting a managing gig after being fired in 1997 by the Blue Jays?
MW: No, I don’t. I think it’s inexcusable that he didn’t get another shot until last year.
- BrendanOh yea I wanted to ask Mike, Do you dislike Cito?
It seems as though you challenge alot of moves that Cito makes, when you talk about him it sounds like there is an undertone of dislike, In contrast to Gibby who you have always defended although this team had not performed for him. Just a thought.
MW: Nope, I actually like Cito a whole lot.
- ThomasHey Mike,
I understand what you’re saying about playing the percentages late in games, but I’m not sure Snider or Overbay would have had a much better chance against Joe Nathan anyway (Joe Nathan being THAT good). You’re pretty much hoping he serves up a beachball and I have no problem with Millar or Bautista getting their chances to take those hacks. In that very game Millar put two balls to the warning track in LF in back to back at bats, so I don’t have a problem with leaving him in. Last year we had a manager that played Lefty/Righty matchups with a mechanical rigor - and while I’m not one to give too much credence to a manager or coach’s impact on the game - there is mounting evidence to suggest that if nothing else, whatever brand of alchemy Cito practices, will continue to stimulate conversation.
MW: You’re right in that pretty much nobody is going to get Joe Nathan, but Jesse Crain isn’t in the same stratosphere.
- AndrewMark Loretta! Wow.
MW: Yeah.
- RahilYou’ve done it this time Wilner. You have angered me to the point of not wanting to watch or listen to Blue Jay baseball again. Of course I will watch the games but am considering boycotting the pre and post game shows which I have be listening to for years. The comment about how you were “trying to be nice” while a caller said things like “we, and our” is an unacceptable comment from you as a member of the rogers family. I have been to NY, Bos, Chi, etc. and do you think the host of the call in show even bats an eyelash when they say “we or our, or us” about the Cubs. Hell no, because it is a family of team members, employees and fans. Why should I come to a game, spend my hard earned money on tickets, merchandise, and invest 162 days of tv and radio a year when I am not considered even the slightest part of the team. Maybe that’s why Toronto isn’t a baseball city. Maybe if we made the team “ours” the city could rally behind it. I don’t want to rally behind a named team that just happens to play baseball in the city I live. Mike I agree with alot of what you say, but I am filled with anger when I look up at my wall and see my Blue Jay jerseys, and think about the tickets I have purchased when you want to disconnect me from the team. We are not idiots, we know we aren’t on the baseball team having a part but maybe you should ask Rance, Jerry, or Pat Tabler if the fans have anything to do with a team ? Because if I don’t, I might as well sit in my living room watching a National League game, or whatever is the best game on that particular night ! Instead I choose to watch my team, The Toronto Blue Jays. I welcome a lengthy response, and an on-air apology, or at least bring the subject up so I don’t have to hear you correct everyone this year on the “we’s, and us’s”. Thanks
MW: I actually didn’t correct that caller who said “we” or “us” at least a dozen times. There’s a difference between membership and ownership. The team belongs to the city, belongs to the fans, but the fans are not members of the team.
- LaffinatorInstilling confidence? Millar and Bautista are major league vets. confidence is not going to be some miracle potion for them. There is no excuse for the managerial “non” moves in last night’s game. As you have astutely stated, this is the “bad” of Cito which apparently we have to take with the good. Im not sure why. These are pretty simple moves we are talking about. Pretty obvious moves.
Also why is Camp warming up if Cito wasnt going to use him there? Was Cito saving him for the next inning? The inning that never came?
Man, im getting worked up over a single loss in a season which has started well, but i cant stand it when managers do things that cost their teams wins.
MW: It didn’t necessarily cost the team a win, just a better chance to win. As for Camp, he may well have been up for the next batter, or the next inning, but he was only a marginally better option. It’s not like he had Joe Nathan warming up there and didn’t use him.
- General ZodAlso, lets not forget that the “JAM” Romero go into with the bases loaded was due to two infield hits and a ball that in most stadiums is a deep fly out.
Also, my worst fears are coming through, the PCL is going to seriously hamper our pitchers mills and Cecil. If you arent pitching in vegas..you might be pitching in colorado springs. On the other side of the coin, Inglett is tearing it up early.
MW: How is it that your worst fears are coming true?
- General ZodHi there!
- Todd OliphantThanks for taking my call last night, it was great to be on your show.
Keep up the great work and thanks for all the refreshing and intelligent conversation surrounding this great game!
And of course, Go Blue Jays!
Hey, Mike:
Congratulatons! Back up to the top of the list of the fan590 blogs (where you belong)!
MW: Damn skippy!
- NormHey Mike,
When will they hang the banner for the Jays having the best defence and the best pitching in the American League for the years 2007 and 2008 combined? Will J.P. be on the field for the ceremony?
Is there also a banner-hanging ceremony for J.P. Ricciardi putting together, as you called it “ARGUABLY one of the top five teams in major league baseball last year?”
I know the Jays had the 12th-best overall record in baseball, but that should mean nothing. They should be deemed the fifth-best team because of sabermetrics and finishing fourth in their tough division.
MW: Sigh.
- Ken PaganHeuy mike i have a question, the question of JP’s tradng record keeps coming up and i was wondering about the Michael Young-Darwin Cubillan trade to the rangers for Esteban Loaiza.
Was that a JP trade? If so dont you think we got the short end on that one?
MW: They sure did. It was one of the worst trades the Blue Jays have ever made and I’m sure Gord Ash still regrets making it.
- Kyle SMike, one of your comments proves that statistics can be twisted to support anything. “Jays are 3-0 when BJ Ryan pitches.” Shameless spin doctoring.
MW: This is why I don’t respond to your comments.
- Vito From HamiltonWhat happened to Aaron Hill playing shortstop? Should Scutaro get hurt, why not move Hill to SS and Inglett or Scott Campbell to 2nd base?
MW: Won’t happen.
- Ryanwell well well…..
michael,
i see that you’ve been bumped up to top dog on the fan590 blog list.
my goodness ahead of howard berger & the toronto maple leafs….
how do you think howard’s taking the demotion?
i’d call him if i were you michael….
MW: Things are as they should be. Actually, I think it’s just that the Leafs’ season is over.
- darrell bishopHello Mike,
Well, I agree that Snider should have hit for bautista but to be honest, I like Millar in that situation as opposed to Overbay who still isn’t swinging the bat very well and Millar had been all night despite not getting a hit. I love Cito but I am aware that sometimes he can frustrate the heck out of us. Sometimes he is loyal to a fault. I recall him sticking with Alfredo Griffin to bat in the 9th (I think it was the 9th) in Game 6 of the 1993 World Series. I also recall him sticking with Mookie Wilson way too long after his 1989 heroics, at the expense of young mark Whiten and Glenallen Hill. Still, there is nobody I’d rather have managing the Jays than Cito. My wife has insisted I get his name and number put on her authentic black Jays alternate jersey this year and I will!
As for Romero, I have to be honest. I did not knwo much about him aside from the fact that he was a draft pick. I hadn’t seen him pitch and tonight was the first time. I am impressed. He has a nice low to mid 90s fastball and he displayed a good breaking pitch especially in fanning Morneau in the 8th. He shows poise and intensity as well. I look forward to more of him and lets hope he can sustain this, although I usually don’t get to excited about young pitchers until mid-season as we have all seen many guys start hot only to tail off badly by mid season. Vaughan Eschelman of Boston comes to mind. He started 3-0 and then got (censored) the rest of the way and eventually faded. I also remember Chris Michalek in 2001 with the jays starting 3-0 as well only to fade. Romero probably has better stuff than those guys, but I’d feel better waiting until at least June when the bats have heated up. Still, Its fun to watch.
MW: I will never like Millar over Overbay against a right-handed pitcher. Alfredo Griffin was on-deck when Joe Carter hit the homer in Game 6 of the ‘93 Series, but he may not have hit. And come on, watch your language.
- IanHi Mike,
Nice to see Matt Bush reading the blog – would’ve been nicer if he actually had something to say though.
Anyway, how do you reconcile all of the pitching injuries the Jays have had the last few years? It is not only the frequency of the injuries that seems odd to me, but the severity of them as well.
It seems that following a successful season several Blue Jays pitchers have severely broken down the next season with major injuries. For example:
1) Chacin solid in `05, broken down in `06
2) Burnett very good in `05, broken down in `06
3) BJ Ryan great in `06, out-for-year in `07
4) Casey Janssen great in `07, out-for-year in `08
5) Marcum great in `07/`08, out-for-year in `09
6) McGowan solid in `07, out-for half `08 & at least half `09
7) Litsch very good in `08, now injured in `09
We know the Jays have a policy to carefully monitor the innings build-up of their young pitchers but this hasn’t seemed to protect the young key arms here. Could maybe the young control-type pitchers JP has drafted (e.g., Janssen, Marcum & Litsch) just be guilty of over-throwing too much? Perhaps to compensate for their lack of velocity? Marcum and Litsch had to pitch in a lot of high intensity, low scoring games last year, and Janssen (as the set-up may in `07) also had to pitch in many high-leverage, “game-on-the-line,” type situations.
MW: I don’t know how to reconcile the injuries, and I’m not sure it happens to the Jays significantly more than it does to other teams. It sure sucks, though.
- JamieThe Jays are the third best team for 2007 and 2008 combined. You’re right, it’s not remotely close, but the Phillies are in a class by themselves.
Philadelphia..64 + 78 = 142
St. Louis…..71 + 55 = 126
Toronto…….53 + 70 = 123
The Jays are the best in the AL.
MW: You were looking at team defensive runs, I was looking at defensive plus/minus. For 2007 & 2008 the Blue Jays were 97 + 51, to make 148. Easily the best in the bigs. Next were the Mets at 114. Nice try, though.
Thanks for the explanation. This does raise a couple of other points though.
1) Why would you put more wight on plus/minus which only measures plays made or not made. Isn’t defensive runs allowed or prevented a lot more meaningful.
2) The reason that the Blue Jays do better in +/- than they do total team defense is for the following reasons:
- In 2008 they ranked 21st in turning double plays and 24th in bunt defense
- In 2007 they ranked 30th (dead last) in bunt defense.
These areas of weakness actually brought their total team defense below the Phillies and Cardinals, but Toronto was #1 in the majors in 2007 and 2nd in the AL in 2008.
Your point that the Blue Jays are a very good defensive team is valid, but to say they are the best defensive team in the majors in not quite accurate. Double plays, bunt defense, and throwing are all part of total team defense. Not just the plus/minus numbers.
Thanks for pointing out this information for me. I had not found it before. It is quite interesting and informative….and very well laid out.
MW: I remember that bunt defense a couple of years ago. It was atrocious, nothing ever seemed to go right.
- KenGo East County!
- JamieRomero continues to look like he belongs in the majors. Two BB in 14 IP to go along with all the poise that he has shown is very impressive. A few more Ks and we’d really have something.
Batista and Miller hitting instead of Snider and Overbay versus a RHP with the game on the line; Carlson staying to face a righty in his 2nd inning yet, again with the game on the line; Hill booting a routine grounder to allow the base runner to advance to 2nd and eventually score; and Wells (has his range ever deteriorated) playing way too shallow on Justin Morneau.
All little mistakes leading to an extra inning loss.
SIGH, this loss was certainly not necessary. Not by a long shot.
- KenMike…Cito has always been like that..I remember back in the great early ’90’s, when Cito said the guy had a day off, it was a DAY OFF..So Rob Ducey would start for Joe Carter and if a tough lefty would relieve, Joe would still sit and Ducey was overmatched and all us guys were furious for days…Wow..a lot of anger in the last posting. I usually log in here to forget the horrible Toronto to Brampton daily traffic and dealing with unwell people at work and talk and read baseball and get up for the game at night, but I actually was bummed out after the last section…..I lost count of all the times I read the word hate..My late father was so old school that I think he helped Steely Dan right the song of the same title..We would get in big trouble for using the word hate and he considered it among the other 4 letter words. Remember, it takes more muscles to frown than smile.
MW: I never used the word “hate”. It’s a strong word, and too often overused.
- chris m.Just quick True or False. No explanation required.
1) Rays or BoSox will win the AL East.
2) KC will finish last in the division
3) Overbay will be the chosen to be the lead off man by July.
4) The Cy Young award winner will come from the AL East.
5) Howard can hit 50+ HR this year.
6) The Jays will have a .550+ winning percentage.
7) The Mets will finish higher than the Philiies this year.
8) Casey Janseens ERA will be under 3.50.
9)The Marlins will be playing meaningful games in Sept.
10) AJ Burnett will lead the majors in Strikeouts.
MW: 1 - True. 2 - False. 3 - False. 4 - No idea. 5 - Can? True. 6 - False (that’s 90+ wins). 7 - True. 8 - False. 9 - True. 10 - False.
- TheSunkenZealotShould Camp be the righty specaialist?
MW: No, he should be the long guy.
- TheSunkenZealotMike, why are you assuming that Cecil gets the call up when Mills seemed the choice (out of the two) at the end of camp? Has Cecil impressed that much since then?
MW: No, it’s just that Cecil is ahead of Mills in general. He’s THE next guy.
- AndrewNL West
San Diego……6 - 2 –
LA Dodgers…..5 - 3 1.0
Colorado…….3 - 4 2.5
Arizona……..3 - 5 3.0
San Francisco..2 - 5 3.5
San Diego:
Consensus pick for last place. Early season success fueled by Adrian Gonzalez, Henry Blanco, Scott Hairston, and Jody Gerut with the bats. Team ERA is 2.88. Six relievers have yet to allow a run despite a 15/11 K/BB ratio. Predicted finish 70 - 92, better than originally expected but still dismal.
LA Dodgers:
Popular pick to win the division. Great pitching all-round so far. Two home runs allowed in 69 IP. Imagine that Jays’ fans. Orlando Hudson (remember him) 1.086 OPS, Manny .964, Matt Kemp .923, & Andre Ethier .917 lead the offense. Russell Martin is struggling along at .557. Predicted finish 88 - 74 and a divisional title.
Colorado Rockies:
Tulowitzki is back (1.120 OPS), rookie Dexter Fowler 1.015, and Clint Barnes .883 lead a struggling offense. Todd Helton is hanging tough with his .367 OPS. Ouch. And we think Overbay is bad !!
Bullpen is awful and only a some good luck by Marquis (14 IP, 4 BB, 5 K, 1.93 ERA) and Jimenez (11 IP, 9 BB, 13 K, 2.53 ERA) have kept the team treading water. Predicted finish 74 - 88.
Arizona:
Danny Haren (13 IP, 3 BB, 11 K, 1 HR, 2.08) and Tony Pena (5.0 IP, 1.80 ERA) are pitching well and that’s about it. Felipe Lopez (remember him)- 1.007 OPS and Stephen Drew (870 OPS), two middle infielders, are the only guys who are hitting. Things have to get better than this. Predicted finish 78 - 84.
San Francisco:
Mikes pick for a much improved team. So far it’s not happening. Offense led by Fred Lewis - 1.142 OPS, Aaron Rowand - 1.076, Randy Winn - .978, & a team leading seven RBI from Bengie Molina - .794 OPS. Matt Cain and a few relievers are pitching well, but seriously abused (227 IP at age 24) Tim Lincecum (7.56), Zito (9.00), and Randy Johnson (11.42) make for a very scary rotation….so far. Predicted finish 68 - 94.
MW: You have yet to answer - why do you do this?
- KenI love Aaron Hill, but he swings too often. If he keeps it up, he’s going to see fewer strikes. I mean the aggressive attitude is welcoming, but he needs to keep it in check; he doesn’t have the raw power of a Vlady—a player that can get away with swinging at bad pitches.
MW: Someone somewhere is tracking Hill’s swing rate.
- JamieI hope Richmond is successful tonight, but anybody who is this bad against left-handed hitters should not be starting. Wouldn’t Wade Miller or the departed Matt Clement be a better option. We’re going to see 6 guys batting from the left side tonight and I wish I had them all on my fantasy team tonight. (Morneau, Kubel, Span, Casilla, Punto and Buscher will probably bat for Crede. On the positive side, 61 atbats against left-handed may not be a fair assessment, but on the negative side, there is no chance for a rainout in Minnesota since they have the dome.
MW: Richmond did just fine, as it turned out.
- DomenickThere is only one explanation for Citos actions: He is a left wing nut job.
M-Dub,
Can a guy like Downs throw everynight?
I know we have Carlson, so it doesn really need to happen.
Im just asking, in general, a guy like that? how many nights in a row can he work? how many innings would you say he can throw a week?
thanks.
MW: I think Downs could throw four innings a week pretty easily.
- slobberfaceMike I hope you are not unwell.
I was surprised to see Snider on the bench and not come in to face the righty but I am not going to jump over Cito for the move. I don’t see anything wrong with seeing exactly what you have in April even if this means punting a few games early on. I think Cito wanted to see how he handled the situation so that later on in the year if a similar situation comes up and the make-up of the bench is different now he has more information to make his decision.
As for the confidence factor, I think it may have not been just a message to Bautista or Millar but everyone on the team knows that they don’t have to look over their shoulder. Not pinch hitting in that situation might say to Scutaro that he can relax and that his job is not on the line everynight.
P.S. Bob said on opening night the Jays would get 90 wins ;)
MW: There’s nothing wrong with punting a few games early? Seriously?
- DaveAt least it isn’t Gibby in there, who would have promtly yanked Romero in the 6th, and we would have likely seen a barage of runs–depriving us all of an exciting extra-inning game. You hit the nail on the head, Mike, citing Cito’s “lose one now to win two later” strategy. That is exactly what he was thinking, although confidence is only part of that strategy, chemistry being the other half. I believe Cito is interested in developing a team that believes in each other, which is unarguably important, he’s not interested in a “business” type club made up of “starters” and “the other guys.” I don’t contend that Millar and Bautista deserve any more playing time, I just believe that Cito’s decisions last night were well thought through and reminiscent of successful coach.
MW: We’ll disagree. I don’t think it matters, by the way, if everyone on the team believes in each other.
- JamieIt’s not too often I disagree with you, but I was a little surprised you kept using the ‘92 Jays as an example against the up-the-middle guy.
I remember Borders looking like a Vezina candidate when Guz (among others) was on the hill. I’m too lazy to look up his numbers throwing out would-be stealers, but it never seemed to stand out to me, so I assumed (yup) he was about average at that. Maybe the memory’s a little smoky.
I thought Manny was a heck of a player in the field too. Not a Tony or Johnny Mac, but who is? And even though he wasn’t known for swinging a big stick, I believe he batted 1.000 one year for the Cards. I know you love those sample sizes.
Then I consider the other middle fielders that season. My perspective is skewed because 90% or so of the baseball I watch is Blue Jays, but I’d think Alomar and Devo should both be considered among the best ever, defensively, (and I’m not complaining about their offense) at their respective positions. They’re the best I’ve ever seen at those spots.
I realize I didn’t exactly give a strong case for Pat and Manny’s D, but it was 17 years ago. I can’t point out specific plays, I just… thought they were good, ya know?
Maybe it’s not complete disagreement, since I don’t think these players carried the team compared to the rest of the roster or anything.
On another note, I totally agree with your assessment of the non-moves last night. Puzzling to say the least. My frustration was offset somewhat though, as extra innings and Extendo JaysTalks are extremely welcome on the drive home from up north. Thanks for the company! Plus it’s hard for me to get too down with the way this season’s been so far. Great game from Romero!
MW: Borders was awesome at blocking balls in the dirt, and average or worse at everything else. Lee was a good fielder, but no Gold Glover. Of course, White and Alomar were ridiculous, but that’s only half the battle.
- Dilly in DundasMW,
I agree about Snider and don’t understand why instilling confidence in Millar or Bautista is a better strategy in the long run than showing confidence in someone who might end up the AL Rookie of the Year and a franchise player. Two thoughts: either Snider was resting a mild injury or Cito didn’t want to disturb his confidence by putting him in such a pressure packed situation so early in the season. I don’t agree with the latter idea, let the kid hit in all types of situations, but is it possible this is what Cito was thinking?
MW: Nope. He just wasn’t comfortable pinch-hitting for a veteran with a rookie.
- GeorgeDear Mike and Kim,
My thanks to you both, kim for your digging, mike for post #46 regarding Docs reading material. I shan’t pester you any further(on this matter)!
- BobHi Mike,
Alright, so I understand that fact that Cito has confidence in his guys… but what I’m having a problem with here is that he is clearly using Bautista and Millar in “relief” of Snider and Overbay — to give them a rest or relieve them from having to face left-handed pitching. But why isn’t he using Johnny Mac to give Scutaro and Hill a rest (despite the fact that Johnny is better as a shortstop, Scutaro could play 2nd for the game that Hill rests).
I’d really just enjoy not seeing Johnny Mac, who in my opinion is one of the best defensive short-stops in baseball, sit on the bench… there are far better uses for him… and after all, every player needs a rest.
Just thought I’d provide you with my 2 cents…..
Thanks Mike for your wonderful blog… and your terriffic show.. keep up the good work
MW: It’s semantics, but he’s not using Millar and Bautista in “relief”, he’s platooning them with Snider and Overbay. I’ll wager that McDonald will start tomorrow.
- Tarryn MartinI wonder how many youngsters you lost with your “facts of life reference! I admit, I’m 49 and I got it right away. It’s nice to see that your picture to get on this blog has been moved up to the top. I logged onto Howard’s picture twice before I figured it out. I know there is no way to know if the lack of moves last night cost the team a game, but I hope Cito learned something from this. Back in the “glory days” Cito used to be labelled as a manager who just filled out the line-up card everyday and sent the team out to play. I didn’t get the criticism then because the team he had then was capaple of performing and winning that way. I don’t however think that he has the luxury of managing this team the same way and I think he will figure that out and make adjustments to compensate. It’s hard to be negative when the team is off to such a good start but that’s what us arm chair managers do. I’m not sure why you get so ticked when people use possesive terms when talking about “their” team. I don’t usually do this but I can tell you that as a fan, we put a lot of time into “our” team and feel a sense of ownership in the teams wins and losses.
MW: As I said above, ownership and membership are different things.
- Dan from ElmvaleMike,
Any word on wether or not Janssen is throwing again yet. Love the Lineup 1-9, but with Litch out, I’m worried that great bullpen is going to get very tired, very fast.
MW: See above.
- MattMike. Please explain why the Jays didn’t take a flyer on a guy like Pedro… Scott Richmond is not good. He doesn’t have the potential to be good.
MW: Lots of guys behind him do, and Pedro wants too much money.
- JoeMike, it’s Wednesday night’s game and I am PUMPED. Both Overbay and Snider are starting vs. a righty and it turns out the two of them are a sure run between them when they hit. If they each get 4 PA’s, that’s 4 runs right there!!! We’ve got a huge advantage.
Plus, it doesn’t matter if our second baseman boots doubleplay balls all night long, because it’s pinchhitting platoon advantages that win or lose games.
Can’t wait to see the rock’nroll from Lyle and Travis. And it’s cool that Aaron doesn’t make plays ’cause it really doesn’t matter nearly as much as who has a one ab pinch hit.
Lastly, I hope JP hires back Carlos Tosca as a bench coach to help Cito manage the bullpen. I’ve been a big booster of Carlson, but it was obvious in retrospect that Carlson should have been taken out at Crede. Tosca would have made 3 or 4 pitching changes that inning, and his record of success doing that can’t be ignored.
Your comment on not caring the least about whether Bautista ever feels confident vs. a righty because he should be on the bench when they’re in the game, was right on the Moneyball. After all, other teams may need to think about a thirdbaseman who’s going to miss a good portion of the season, but not the Jays. As every JPfanboy knows, Scott Rolen’s a lock for 162 games a year, and there’s no way Bautista’s should have to face righties ever!
MW: Again: Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
- Ricky RomeroWell, I like letting players have a chance to play - but on the other hand , this is the time of year to establish our
- barb‘mystique’ of
unbeatable. Which up to now we have been . So I hope that we don’t hold our best players back and ride the tide ( winning tide) while we can.
How long before Arencibia gets called up? Watching Barrett play may get old.. fast.
- Vito2Couldn’t agree more regarding Cito’s lack of moves for this game. And the whole confidence strategy can have an equal and opposite effect, as in, letting Overbay and Snider stay on the bench (both offensive (vs.righties) and defensive superiors to Millar & Bautista) gives them the message that Gaston is not confident in THEM. I’d be downright miffed if I was either of them, especially since they are, like I said, defensively superior, which is always key in close, late games. This guy was not happy about that. How do you justify leaving a guy on the bench that just SMOKED two of the longest homeruns your team has seen in a LONG time?! Maddening, indeed.
Hey Mike, I know you don’t like to ‘diss’ other broadcasters but this drives me nuts and I wondered if it bothered you as well. On the TV broadcast, they’ll cut to a super wide shot (high above usually) while the pitch is delivered to home plate. Sometimes the batter hits it and as a viewer you have NO CLUE as to where it’s going or what is going on. Drives me INSANE. I could go on ad nauseam about other things as well but I won’t. You don’t have to gripe with me, just let me know I’m not the only one in the world that is bothered by this immensely.
But to end on an up note: GO JAYS GO!! And keep up the good work!
- Scott BHey Mike!
Will Halladay’s next start (after tomorrow) be on the 21st - the regular amount of rest - or on the 22nd so that Cito can go through the rotation? Any clue?
MW: No clue yet, but I’d expect they keep everyone on their regular day and push Tallet back.
- JordieHi Mike,
Thanks for putting my fears of the bullpen on hold (for now!) and yes I am more than happy with a 6-3 record. It’s been a fun year all round so far.
Having said that, I am now concerned about the starters, outside of Roy Halladay. Tom Verducci of SI is one of the best baseball writers around and has a great theory about the “follow on effect” on young starters who throw a significant amount more innings than the previous year. I can’t remember the exact numbers offhand, but the gist is that a lot of these starters break down the next year with arm problems. His prediction rate in 2008 was pretty accurate, including Dustin MacGowan (sp?). It may already apply to Jesse Litsch this year.
My concerns are:
1) Lets assume that the troika of Purcey, Romero and Richmond pitch well. Is it even possible that any of these guys can sustain 30 starts throughout the season which would be a huge jump in innings pitched from their previous year (minors included). It’s a huge task for them and if they fail, where are the replacement starters going to come from?
2. Assuming they last the year and Verducci’s theory is bang on, they could be looking at trouble next year. In that case, we could be in deep trouble, because I’m not confident at all that either Marcum or MacGowan will bounce back.
What do you think? As always, your thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
MW: The Jays are very aware of the “rule of 30″ and will make sure the young pitchers don’t make too big a jump in innings.
- OzRobHello Michael. Is baserunning something that can be improved on? I know its mostly instincts but Lind may make more bone-headed mistakes than Rios.
MW: It’s possible to improve baserunning, sure.
- RenegadeIf you were running a team and could ONLY choose Cito or Gibby, who would it be???
MW: Cito. The guy has two rings and is the best manager in the game from the end of one game to the start of the next. You take the good, you take the bad, but you don’t have to like it.
- DanMike…I have a question for you.
Last night’s game, I believe in the bottom of the 10th inning…I was totally stumped as to why Cito wouldn’t have intentionally walked a batter.
There was one out, and a man was at first. Carlson, a lefty, was pitching to the 9th batter in the lineup, who was a righty. The game was tied at the time. The next batter was the leadoff batter, who was a left-handed batter.
Do you recall this situation? I immediately called my father, a longtime baseball coach and fan, to ask his opinion. He was stumped.
In the end, the Jays got out of it. But, I couldn’t figure out why the batter wouldn’t have been walked, setting up the double play, with a lefty now facing Carlson.
Any thoughts?
MW: I would have a very hard time ever intentionally walking the ninth hitter, for one thing. Actually, that’s about it. Why walk a guy who’s very likely to get out?
- brentoMike, you might as well put on your Argos jersey when the Jays are averaging a touchdown per game!
- Vito From HamiltonI wonder if some of the people who haven’t given Richmond a snowballs chance in hell of sticking on with this rotation for a while will give him credit for a very well pitched game tonight. I say lets let him pitch his way off the team before we write him off.
MW: We shall see.
- Dan from ElmvaleMW: You weren’t impressed with the Mondesi trade? You lose your argument right there. The fact that the Jays could make that trade was miraculous. That said, Paul Godfrey made that trade, not Ricciardi. The Quantrill trade was a very good gamble that didn’t work out - Ricciardi is not a seer. Felipe Lopez wasn’t that good, and that trade certainly wasn’t a win. However, any time you can get a first-round arm for a mediocre shortstop……….
Was not arguing, just following up on a statement that you made and wanted your opinions on the trades mentioned, which you gave me and I thank you for.
A few quick things.
1. Hear anything about this Reidier Gonzalez? 2005 19th round pick that seems to be pitching lights out so far in New Hampshire.
2. Bob McCown mentioned last week that money is available to JP, all he needs to do is ask and justify it. This, Bob stated, came from the mouth of Paul Beaston. Have you heard anything about that?
Thanks.
MW: 1 - Haven’t heard anyone mention him yet, but I’ll keep an ear out. 2 - It’s up to Beeston to free up the money, not J.P. Beeston has said many times that the money is there if he wants it, but he doesn’t think it’s prudent to ask for it yet.
- Sean LafortuneNot taking a shot at Rios, I’ve done that plenty, but he is not looking good at the plate, and looks even worse when compared to all the other guys who are hitting really well. We know he has the talent. What’s to be done?
As far as the Snider/Bautista thing is concerned, I think Cito should have pinch-hit Snider, but I’ll accept his explanation. That having been said, if this happens again down the season, and we lose because of it, I’ll be well p***d!
MW: What’s to be done? Wait. They’re 10 games in.
- isabella reyesCouldn’t believe no one left a comment yet..
Last night was tough to watch, but Mr. romero was great. And, Richmond pitched great tonight.
MW: Lots of people left comments, they just take a while to get posted.
- MattI liked the way the Twins kept sailing pitches high on Snider expecting him to swing hopelessly at them. This guy is gonna be a star. Then on a 3 and 1 pitch rather then walk Snider for a third time, Ayala puts it over the plate and Snider hits a ground rule double. Sweet! How much longer is Cito going to have him in the 9th spot.
MW: Hopefully, not too.
- DomenickMike,
I know it’s not exactly the same group of batters from last year, but it’s pretty darn close. As I followed the game today, another amazing offensive outburst where we hit more home runs than we did in the month of May last year (seems like it anyway), I’ve suddenly developed a thousand yard stare wondering “If only they hit like this last year”.
MW: It’s not that darn close. Hill, Lind and Snider are a big, big difference.
- OzRobWho’s a better defender, Scott Rolen or Mike Schimdt?
MW: Schmidt says it’s Rolen.
- andrewthat ken pagan guy is an idiot.
- Jamie TIn 10 games so far this season, the Jays have scored 10 or more runs 3 times. How long did it take the jays to score 10 or more runs last year?
MW: It took them until game 5.
- Sam McLeanThe Jay’s pitching has been a little rough to start the year, but they’ve settled down the past few games. A good sign, especially League’s inning tonight.
- Sam McLeanYou said that the Minnesota Twins play in AL central and that makes it a weaker division. Did you not forget in 2006 that the AL Central was likely the best division in the league where it boasted the Detroit Tigers, Minnesota Twins and the Chicago White Sox. So you can’t use the Blue Jays play in the AL East as a excuse.
MW: No, I didn’t forget that. Because it wasn’t.
- andrewMike: Listened to the broadcast tonight, and I just want to share my support for J.P. I feel he hasn’t done a bad job with the Jays. I am looking forward to the season, and not trying to expect too much.
- Phil RSchmidt thinks it Rolen, but who do you think is the better defender?
MW: I didn’t see Mike Schmidt play nearly enough to make any kind of assessment. I’ll take Schmidt’s word for it.
- andrewI have been saying for years JP biggest mistake was letting his ego hire puppet managers, finally, FINALLY we have a manager delivering RESULTS and we want to jump on him already for a 7-3 start? I will take the occasional blip, if his bigger picture style is leading to 15+ hits every other night. Like Jerry said yesterday Cito is not a “push button” manager (like Gibbo) I love Cito, the players love Cito and the team is responding. Jerry also said players love to play for a manager like Cito, so you guys keep ragging on him, the BIG picture is 10 games in we already have 7 wins.
Millar has been swinging a HOT bat, even his outs are loud, so I was ok with giving him a shot over a 21 year old who is still coming into his own. It is funny when it works (like the Barajas sac fly walk off win) nobody praised Cito, but when it does not, ungrateful fans who dont appreciate what twe have in Cito jump off the bandwagon. You will all regret your words!
- MateoYou took my call tonight and commended me for making a point in the “case against J.P. Ricciardi.”
I am stunned. Thanks for taking the call.
Now that I’ve explored some of the statements you’ve made in J.P.’s defence, he HAS put together a decent home-grown team and HASN’T really been burned in a trade.
But in a year when the budget is cut to $80-million . . . 25 per cent of that is still tied to Rolen and Overbay. Those were J.P.’s acquisitions, both by trade. I’m sure if those contracts were moveable over the winter, they would have been moved.
Sure, Rolen is swinging a good bat now, but last year, he had 10 home runs and was hitting seventh. They don’t have to spend $11-$12 million for that.
So J.P. gets an ‘A’ for the home-grown pitching and young talent. But better acquisitions at the major league level (Thomas, Rolen, Overbay, Burnett, Eckstein, Shannon Stewart, Mencherson) might have pushed the Jays a little further last season and maybe put them in a better position this season.
MW: When J.P. traded for Overbay and Rolen, he didn’t anticipate his payroll being cut by 20%, that has nothing to do with him. I’ll give you Thomas, Stewart and Mencherson, but all those guys were brought in to be short-term stop-gaps, and none were in the plans for this year and beyond.
- Ken PaganMike, after 10 games, (not to jump the gun) is there a better team in baseball right now than the bluejays. Remember, only talking about this based on the first 10.
MW: Yes. The Florida Marlins. And the Orioles are only half a game behind the Jays.
- WarrenYou don’t think it matters if the players don’t believe in each other? Good thing you aren’t coaching, either.
MW: Baseball is a team sport played by individuals. Do you think it matters at all to Aaron Hill if Scott Rolen thinks he’s good?
- JamieMW: I’ll give you Thomas, Stewart and Mencherson, but all those guys were brought in to be short-term stop-gaps, and none were in the plans for this year and beyond.
Stewart was brought in as a short-term stop-gap? Until when? Which young phenom do we have in the minors who is the natural lead-off guy of the future? And while we are at it, at the time Ricciardi signed Thomas, was he expecting Lind to become a DH? I don’t think he was. In fact, if I remember correctly, neither he nor Gibbons were particularly high on Lind. Ricciardi has signed a bunch of washed-up batters to the dh spot, I believe. None of them worked out all that well. Nor have his s/s acquisitions. So far his best signing looks like Scutaro. But Scutaro was signed as a sub. His drafting has been good. His trading/fa-signing not so much.
MW: You honestly believe the Jays expected Shannon Stewart to be on this team this year? Never. Thomas was supposed to be here in 07 and 08, and hopefully this year if he didn’t fall right off the map, which he did. You don’t remember correctly with regards to Lind. Scutaro was actually acquired in trade.
- isabella reyesMike, re Post #21, the play Millar made on the line drive.
You correctly pointed out that Overbay probably also makes the same play on the hit itself. What you missed pointing out is that with Lyle’s superior arm, and the better throwing position of a Lefty vs Righty, he also very likely ALSO gets the out at second. (As it was it was a real close play — with Overbay, I’m guessing it’s a DP!)
MW: It should have been a DP even with Millar, I thought the throw beat the runner.
- NormMike,
This is off topic, I was looking at the standings for the national league east, and Florida has jumped out to a 6-2 start. Year in and year out florida with their miniscule payroll makes such a compelling statement. On the flip side in the AL east
Each year there is talk of how the Jays have trouble staying in it partly because of the division. I would have to say that the NL east with Atlanta,New York and Philly is no pushover division, and is probably just a little less tougher than the AL east.
MW: It’s a lot less tougher, but what “compelling statement” does Florida make year in and year out? A good start? Cool. Over the last three years, the Blue Jays have 23 more wins than the Marlins, and they’ve had a better record every season. Please fill me in on your point.
Mike is it alot less tougher for a small revenue team to compete in a division where the top team payrolls in that division is nearly ten times larger? Given the discreptancy
in team payroll between florida and the top payrolls in the NL east Atlanta and New York, How many times in the last ten years have they played meaniful ball in september vs how many Jays have played.
MW: They have played many more meaningful games in September than the Jays over the last 10 years, but I don’t see the Mets having a payroll that’s even close to 10 times the Marlins’. You’re really stretching there.
- Thomaswhy are ppl who respond to ur blog always about the jays?
i know its toronto here, and the fan590 is canadian based, but shouldnt we hav at least A LITTLE bit of discussion on the blog and on the air of what’s happening in the majors? It’s important to analyze your favorite team, but also to analyze the teams around you, their strengths weaknesses, etc…
the jaystalk has been about the same ppl over and over again…..rios, wells, overbay, mcd, JP, the list goes on…..even Reed Johnson
try putting on some new callers and talk about things around the majors for about an extra 2 mins
thxx
MW: We’re in Toronto. It’s a Blue Jays post-game show.
- TheSunkenZealotMike,
Sorry for the double postage,
One other thing I wanted to add is, You have defended JP quite agressively over his tenure and have boldly made the statement that he never made a bad trade in eight years, However we all know that JP is not really known for blockbuster deals, I guess he stays away from them because he doesn’t trust himself to make them, Nonetheless JP has committed largely to many players that have given us only one solid year of service, because of injuries or just inconsistancy
AJ Burnett
BJ Ryan
Frank Thomas
Eric Hinske
Scott Rolen
Mike not to rehash this thing about the five year plan, but if JP had mentioned a five year Plan It would have made sense because it takes roughly five years to build a contender through the draft. He denied saying anything about a five year plan and turned away from his plan to build through the draft after thinking that he could buy a ring, Now he has gone back to the draft plan.
MW: He didn’t turn away from his plan after thinking he could buy a ring, that’s just not true at all. Nor is it true to say that players like Ryan and Hinske only gave the Jays one solid year of service. You can’t argue that Ryan’s season last year wasn’t solid, and Hinske had a couple of years where he actually hit righties quite well after his rookie season. And how is Rolen on that list? He’s only been here one year. I’m not even touching the “he doesn’t trust himself” comment.
- ThomasWhy does everyone trot out that dumb line about managers only giving you a handful of wins. Is there any proof to that old saying or is it just something that sounds right so therefor must be right.
The Jays would’ve been 10 wins better if Cito had started managing at the beginning of last year.
I am so thankful that he was willing to come back to TO after the treatment JP gave him,now I don’t have to worry about some genius ruining the careers of our young studs.
As for not pinchhitting for Millar and Bautista,it simple. You may need them later on,so you give them their hacks and figure out what you have. Millar earned a shot after a good game,maybe he could’ve subbed out Bauts but it’s a team game and like some of your commenters have already mentioned,you keep it a team game by using your whole team. Egos,expectations whatever…I won’t doubt in Cito.
He knows how to let a team grow up. 2 rings…give the man his due already.
MW: I give him plenty of due. To say that the Jays need to “figure out” what they have in Millar and Bautista, two guys with plenty of big-league experience, is ridiculous. But not as ridiculous as saying that they’d have been 10 wins better if Cito had managed them all year last night.
- Tom TomMike, one of your comments proves that statistics can be twisted to support anything. “Jays are 3-0 when BJ Ryan pitches.” Shameless spin doctoring.
MW: This is why I don’t respond to your comments.
- Vito From Hamilton
And that is why I make these comments.
MW: To prove Abraham Lincoln right?
- Vito From HamiltonHey Mike,
I am disappointed in your response. Rather than try to explain the saying,you just say it’s ridiculous. Ok. Obviously, you are coming from a different angle.
Have you ever played competitive sports at a high level (doesn’t have to be that high-rep/college)?
I’m thinking the answer is no.
I don’t intend to insult you here;it’s just that you don’t seem to understand what the battle is.
Maybe that’s why you don’t see what a man like Cito brings to the table. If you did,you’d be in love with the dude.
For all those of you who fantasize about competition but have never actually taken the field…a man who has the rep and the belts,the experience to show the way,the calmness that comes with having been there and having gotten the job done…
that kind of knowledge doesn’t have statistical correaltion and it is the kind of knowledge young guys like Lind and Snider can only get from a guy like Cito.
Guys like that don’t manage from a textbook,they go by what they are seeing live in the field. Players will play for a guy like that and if you compare that mindset to the kind you get when you have a manager like JGib,you will see that 10 games is just the beginning. It’s basic PSYCHOLOGY. Motivation,expectation etc…
So,once again; can you tell me where that saying about the managers comes from?
What is it in that statement that makes it true (obv,I think it is a fallacy)?
MW: Which saying are you talking about? And I’m assuming that you have played sports at an elite level for many years, is that right? There are so many holes in your argument above, and I don’t have the time right now to get through them all, but the important thing is - to which saying are you referring?
- Tom TomI played hockey to a fairly high level (if you are american,not so high if you are a canuck) and a bunch of other sports to just above mediocre levels…
Point was (I am awesome and…)teams are complex organisms;organic creatures. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to success or failure (of course there are always reasons but to the irrational monkey,unknowable).
I gave up trying to rationalize it,I just accept it.
Cito is awesome,please stop diminshing your shine by denying the truth.
thank you for taking the time to reply,you have the patience of Job.
No need to reply to this one,it’s stale. I just like to get the last word in.
Cito rulez!!!!
MW: If such were true, then great managers and coaches would always field teams that overachieved.
- Tom Tom