12:12 AM Eastern
For the first time in World Series history, we have a suspended game. You can’t blame Bud Selig for starting this one, since the weather forecast was for a light rain throughout the night on a field that can handle some rain, but once it started pouring in the 4th inning, they kept going.
Really, the game should have gone into delay sometime in the bottom of the 4th or the top of the 5th. After Jimmy Rollins dropped Rocco Baldelli’s pop-up to start the 5th would have been a great time. That way, if the weather clears out after a little, you have a short delay and the game continues. If it doesn’t, you’re not screwed, because the game’s not official. Instead, they were screwed once the top of the 5th came to a close. At least, they would have been if they hadn’t miraculously changed the rules of the game. Selig announced after the game that if they’d gone into delay with the Phillies ahead, despite the fact that it was an official game, the rain delay would have been indefinite, and could have lasted days.
One wonders if they had realized that before or after they pulled the teams off the field. Because if the “infinite rain delay” had been dreamed up ahead of time, why did they appear to wait until the game could be suspended by rule (i.e. tied or visiting team having taken the lead without the home team having had a chance to respond) to pull the teams off the field?
Selig said, in his post-game news conference, that he and the umpires had come to the decision that the game couldn’t continue in the 5th inning. Yet they allowed the teams to play the top of the 6th anyway, and the Rays tied the game in conditions that were deplorable. Jimmy Rollins had a two-out grounder skip off his wrist, allowing B.J. Upton to reach. Upton then stole second and scored on a single by Carlos Pena. Does Upton even reach if they’re not playing in sludge? Who knows?
Then, pretty much as soon as the game is tied, they go into delay. The game will resume, said Selig, “when (he) believe(s) that weather conditions are appropriate.” So I’m thinking that if it clears up around 11:30 tomorrow morning, that’s when they’ll go. I’m assuming they’ll phone or something to let us know.
What we have now is a battle of the bullpens. Tie game after 5 1/2 with the Phillies unable to bring back Cole Hamels and the Rays already having yanked Scott Kazmir. There weren’t any bench players used in the game, so everyone is still available on both sides, and there’s no reason Grant Balfour can’t come out to start the 6th against whatever pinch-hitter Charlie Manuel decides to send up (since Hamels is due to lead off when play resumes). I have a feeling we’re going to see a lot of David Price tomorrow night.
There is good news for the Phillies here, and that’s that Hamels only needed 75 pitches to get through his six innings of work. That means that he may well be available to come back and pitch Thursday in a Game 7, if it gets that far. If it doesn’t get that far, well, then it’s great news for the Phillies, because they’ll already have won the whole shebang.
Watching the last couple of innings of this game was painful, and patently unfair to both teams. How can you decide your championship in conditions like those? Again, if they’d come up with rain delay forever idea earlier, how can they defend continuing?
And what happens if it rains in Philly for the next few days, then begins to snow and bang – we’ve got winter? Do they pick it up in April? Man, that would be a long rain delay.
I’m assuming they resume sometime Tuesday night, and if they do, it means that we’ll have a Blue Jay A Day Pre-Pre-Game Show for you. I’m going to try to get Travis Snider, and I’ll get word out as soon as we have a guest. Tonight, we had Scott Downs, who was fantastic. I’m stunned, given that he hardly said a word to me all season, but he seems to be a completely different guy in the off-season, and despite the poor quality of his home phone, did a great job. If you don’t believe me, listen to it yourself:
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
And for those of you who can’t get enough great radio, here’s tonight’s post-post-game phone-in for your listening pleasure:
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
The rest of Game 5 awaits! Probably!
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome.
Click here to subscribe to Wilner's blog
mike, I was in total disbelief to see baldelli hang his head and jog to first on that popup. it’s elimination game in the world series and this guy is not hustling. I think he should be benched and hinske take his spot
MW: Everybody thinks Hinske should be playing! Everybody except Joe Maddon. You’re right, though, Baldelli should have been at second easily on that dropped pop-up.
- roccobno such thing as momentum? have you seen the stock market the past month?
MW: Please explain how momentum exists using the results of this year’s ALCS.
- roccobMike,
I hear people on here commenting on waiting until 2010 for the Jays. I may be delusional, but I feel with 1 bat, two starting pitchers and a healthy Vernon, the Jays will be more than fine this year. What do you think about the Jays getting Bedard and Prior for their pitchers and maybe Ibanez or Dunn for DH. Also, I that the Jays may be shopping Ryan. I know he will command some good pieces in a trade, but I don’t like the idea of leaving the pen without a proven closer. I know Accardo did well in that position but you never know what you will get coming off an injury. Thanks
MW: I don’t think that either Bedard or Prior are reliable at all for 2009, but I like those DH options (Adam Dunn will never come here unless Paul Beeston is WAY better a salesman than we think). If the Jays added Bedard and Prior, then I’d still think that 2010 would be the year. Jeremy Accardo has as many years as a successful closer as B.J. Ryan had when the Jays signed him, and the Jays also have Scott Downs, Brandon League, Jesse Carlson and Casey Janssen as possible closers.
- JustinMike “The Great” Wilner,
I just wanna thank you for your blog as we approach the end of the 2008 season. You showed up everyday during the regular season and answered dozens of questions and comments everyday, something I’d never do if I had a wife and two kids. It needs incredible commitment and dedication and you did it for almost 200 straight days.
Before being a regular on your blogs, my baseball knowledge wasn’t that good. Now I can confidently say that I’ve a very good grip on the ins and outs, strategies, stats and records of this great game. Thanks to you!
Great job Sir! you are earning your every single penny and then some.
MW: Why thank you!
- Beburgrios for jj hardy? Thoughts? They need a center fielder. We need a shortstop. I know we have rios for a while and hardy’s a couple years away from free agency but maybe it’s worth the risk. I have not seen hardy play but i hear he is very good defensively.
thanks
MW: I’d rather have Rios.
- jeremyIf you can’t get Mr. Snider, I’d love to hear from Aaron Hill. It’d be nice to hear right from the horse’s mouth how the head is feeling.
MW: So far, we’re 0-for-his-career in our attempts to get Aaron Hill to do the BJADPPGS.
- JJBhey mike,
i was quite curious to see what your response was going to be my somewhat silly but affectionate show of appreciation for yourself & your world class baseball blog.
anyway, just as i suspected you’re ok mike wilner… well done.
now back to baseball.. after seeing what transpired last evening, playing in that horrendous weather and then the much needed suspension of the game, i can’t at this point figure out if this is in fact just more weird or just plain stupid that we might actually have to wait perhaps 2 more days to play 2 or so more innings which in turn might determine the new world series champion of 2008.
i mean think about it. let’s say the weather doesn’t cooperate at all this evening (a possibility from what i hear) and we then wait and watch just a couple more innings, 1 to 2 days later.. and crown the new world champions with the world series trophy …
obviously there’s noone to really blame here, it is what it is of course but as i think about it, it just seems all so crazy does it not?
let’s hope for the sanctity of this great game that the rays find a way to bring this series back to tampa so we can watch this contest unravel under more normal circumstances… not to mention a possibilty of a potential game 7 with the young lefty from philly and matt g. that’d be sweet…
MW: I hope the Phillies win. If the Rays come back and take this thing, you could make the easy argument that not calling Game 5 earlier resulted in the Phils getting cheated out of the title.
- darrell bishopI’m not a Phillies fan but if the Rays come back to win this series it will feel like the city of Philadephia was cheated out of a victory
MW: Bingo.
- DavidI was stunned when I heard that a series game of this magnitude could be decided in a rain shortened game. Hopefully this rule will be written down someplace so that the rules don’t have to be made up as the situation presents itself. I was surprised that he (Bud) didn’t find a way to end the game in a tie. He has done that before. He also could have moved the rest of the game, fans and all to Milwaukee
( did I spell that right? Don’t think I ever had the need to spell that word before)he has done that before as well on a smaller scale. Kudos to Upton for his baserunning. Even on a wet track he came up big again. Even an average arm should have been able to throw him out at the plate. Before the series I asked you if Hinske was going to find his way on to the playoff roster and you said that he hadn’t. Can you tell me what happened? Was there an injury or somethng?
MW: There was an injury to Cliff Floyd, and Hinske was placed on the playoff roster before Game 4.
- Dan from ElmvaleMike,
Do you find it weird that MLB games start at 7:07 all yeah, then suddenly change to 8:37 when all the world is watching? Now, most of our world’s youth are unable to watch the biggest games of the year because it is way past their bedtime. Some might not be able to watch the first pitch. Even the average adult baseball fan is not going to stay up until 1:00 + to watch two teams they hardly care about. Does it not make sense to start the games at the “normal” time?
MW: It certainly does, but TV runs the show, and TV wants the games to start later so that they hit prime time in all three U.S. time zones. Bud Selig said the other day that the TV ratings actually go up each subsequent hour.
- ChrisCombining the rain delay fiasco in Game 3 and the silliness of Game 5 being played in a quagmire makes baseball look bad. It seems that MLB is set up to be a laughingstock in times of their greatest exposure. It wasn’t that long ago when the glory of the all-star game was almost ruined when the teams pretty well ran out of pitchers.
Do you really think Mike, in a regular season game in May between San Diego and Philadelphia that they would have played on through all that rain? Probably not. They might not even have started Game 3 in a regular season scenario either. All that was missing from the World Series is Rick Dempsey running the bases and sliding on that soaked tarp.
Even a post-season game played without any adverse weather seems to last three and a half hours.
In a time where the common complaint about baseball is that it’s “too long” or “too boring” we need a way to get these games in faster and a way to start them at a time when a nine year old can actually watch the whole thing, if he/she wants to.
I like Tampa Bay but the sooner if it ends after Game 5 that means no more McCarver and that will be enough to get over my depression of Tampa Bay losing. Yeah, yeah…I know that I could turn on the radio but I get Jon Miller and Joe Morgan on there and I can’t stand them either.
With thirty teams, most with a radio and TV broadcast team there should be more talent for the network to draw on for these post-season games. Schulman, heck even Thom Brennamen or Steve Stone or Dave Van Horne or Jerry. NOT Hawk Harrelson though. ;)
MW: The decision-makers love McCarver as well as Miller and Morgan. I don’t get the fiasco of Game 3, though. What’s so horrible about a 91 minute rain delay before a game starts? That happens all the time.
- Rob MMike,
The other day when you suggested the Jays could have solved some hitting woes by signing Barry Bonds for $500,000 . . .
Comparing the combined production of Wilkerson/Mench as compared to what Bonds might have provided . . . seems plausible the Jays might have missed out on a few wins, given the fact there was little meat in the order all season.
1) A year out of the game, at his advanced age, how much of an option is Bonds for 2009?
2) Do you think J.P. Ricciardi will have to worry about potential collusion questions?
MW: 1 – Not much at all, because of the pending court case, 2 – no more than the other 29 major-league G.M.’s, but I don’t think the collusion case will focus on the General Managers. It’ll be higher up.
- Ken PaganMike…How about some good ’60′s Stones’ music to help illustrate J.P. Ricciardi’s attempts during the winter to fix the hole left by Shaun Marcum’s injury and shore up the bats. Which one of Mick and Keith’s classic lines will come closest:
a) “You can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need.”
b) ” I can’t get no..satisfaction.”
c) Hopefully it won’t be “Here comes your 19th nervous breakdown.”
MW: No Beatles? Wouldn’t “Fixing A Hole” be perfect? Jays fans are hoping, though, that if it has to be The Stones, the first answer is the one that holds.
- chris m.Mike,
What do you think MLB will do to ensure that there is a full ballpark for the second half of Game 5? Do you think having a half-empty ballpark is a concern for them? I don’t think it would feel like a World Series game if there were only 25,000 people in the stands, and I’m sure that some of the ticketholders from Monday night won’t be able to get back to the park for Wednesday night.
MW: If you had Game 5 tickets, would you not come back for the end of the game? And if you couldn’t, don’t you think it’d be REALLY easy to find someone who could?
- JeffWhat do you think about are new GM Cito calling the shots on the Loewen deal? Also how Paul Beeston is discussing long term options with AJ and his agent sans JP..Is JP already gone in spirit?
MW: No, nor is Cito the Jays’ new GM.
- MattMike
What do you think?
Lind and R. Romero for Cain
Ibanez for two year 15 to 18 million
Furcal 10 million a year for a 2 to 4 year contract depending on the market for him
This all assuming that Burnett doesn’t resign
This fits in the budget (I think) and would make the Jays a much better team.
I really like Ibanez, I think he could be that 30HR plus guy with the move to the smaller ball park.
Am I way off on any of this?
A Rational, reasonable reply is welcome.
MW: I don’t think you’re way off on any of it, except for that kind of contract for Furcal, coming off back surgery.
- SteveHi Mike,
I have registered for the preseale of the World Baseball Classic this upcoming November 11th, five months in advance of the March 5th start date of Round 1 at Skydome…
Have you heard anything about what ticket prices will be like, and how they will be sold?
And if you’re unsure, what were 2006 prices like?
MW: No idea.
- Dan VerhaegheMike I notice when you talk via “phone” with your peers,
ala Mike Hogan , you use words like “I think”, or “In my opinion”..
While in response to callers on jaystalk, you say “you;re wrong” , :Thats not true”..
..or you correct ppl’s english.
If you lost the dogmatic air, you’d be one helluva lot better at your job.
Take a page from “Hogey” . The guy is a human sports encyclopedia, yet, doesn’t feel he needs to ram it down our throats, and ..he informs and engages without belittling.
thx, Joe
MW: I like Hoagie a lot, but I’m not him and he’s not me. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with correcting people’s English, nor do I think there’s anything wrong with telling people that they’re wrong when they’re factually incorrect or calling them on it when they say something that’s not true.
- Joe Jamesbtw having met you in person,
way back on cable tv, you’re a different guy off air.
You’ve got some “mench” in ya.
Mazel Tov on another season.
JjKatz
MW: I think I’m the same guy. I tend to call people on their B.S., just like I do on the radio.
- Joe JamesThis will be the longest game in history for a useless reason, the Commish can’t think ahead.
All the rain does is make Hamels available for Game 7 with 3 days rest.
MW: What could Bud Selig have done differently? Not play Game 5 because the weather forecast said there would be a light drizzle most of the night?
- Richard Spackmanhey mike;
Will be interesting to see when they resume play on this game, hopfully today as this series seems to be dragging on now, let’s see if the rays can @ least win this game to see another shot @ tropicana field. I’m thinking that riccardi may just give all remaining monies available to burnett and trade ryan for salary space, not sure if we have a chance landing any of the big free agents anyway, as salaries are ludicris, just watch what manny signs for- @ least 25-30 million per/4 yrs minimum. Why not wait for next year to lock up halladay for the rest of his career as he is the blue jays along with vernon. Any chance of dumping rios salary to sign an ibanez? good pickup of lowuwen and the other prospect, great to see another canadian in the lineup, thx for the great blog and show.
MW: The Jays aren’t going to give Burnett all their remaining money. I like Ibanez, but I don’t see why they’d have to clear Rios to make room for him, and I think that if they did, that’d be an awful move.
- robert.sMike, my husband disagreed with you for the first time ever on Monday night.
You mentioned that every new park should be built with a re-tractable roof. I couldn’t agree more. It makes so much sense in that you would never have to re-schedule games. As a fan, I like going to games at the Roger’s Centre because I know it will never get rained out. I’ve sat in the drizzle at Fenway Park being miserable. I never have to do that at the RC (except when surrounded by drunken idiots but that’s another story altogether). However, my husband is a baseball purist (sp?) and believes baseball should always be played outdoors. He was still angry yesterday about it. I’d like to hear what others think.
MW: I would rather have the game be played indoors than to be not played outdoors.
- Rustymike,
1 other thing i’ve been meaning to ask you about for sometime.
what is the deal with that bit they do on the morning show at the fan with you and the sleepy voice imitation. hello…. jerry?
they did it this morning again.
i have to tell you. it absoutely cracks me up every time they do it. i swear i laugh out loud. hello..jerry.. is that you? just cracks me up.
but seriously. what’s up with that mike?
are you genuinely not a good morning person or something.
cause needless to say you don’t really ever sound like that. so i don’t get it…
it is hilarious though, i won’t lie to you…
darrell.
MW: I think that what’s up with that is that it’s hilarious.
- darrell bishopBrutalus Basballus commissionerus!
but are we really surprised? I think this is more of the same. When is his contract up? Could the other owners fire Bug (Bud)?
MW: What did Selig do wrong, other than not calling the game an inning earlier?
- markis it me or does it seem like the # of comments hav gone down as the post season continued?
MW: The number of comments has definitely dropped as the post-season has continued.
- TheSunkenZealotIf the Phillies win, will this be the last blog post for which you respond to comments?
And do you honestly think that Lind and Romero would get you Cain? Or were you just agreeing with the idea of going after him?
MW: 1 – I’m not sure. B – Maybe.
- Jay MoneyYou think Bartlett couldve tried to knock the ball lose on that play?
MW: Not sliding headfirst like that. He had to try to beat Ruiz to the plate on the mound side because the throw backed him up.
- TheSunkenZealotHey Mike,
Too bad it was Hinske who struck out to end it. I hope that doesn’t end his career.
Looking forward to your blog — and your awesome responses and feedback — throughout the off-season.
You’re the only connection to good baseball and/or Jays discussion through the offseason for a lot of people, so I’m hoping it continues.
MW: End Hinske’s career?
- Ken PaganMike….What do you think of this Halloween costume? Dressing up as a horse, walking backwards, ringing the doorbell yelling “Trick or Treat” and saying “I’m A.J. Piercynski” when people ask you what/who you are. Or Roger Clemens if you wish.
MW: Interesting, I guess.
- chris m.MW: Hinske had a better year than most of what the Jays are putting out there now, if you only count his hitting against right-handed pitchers and not defense or anything else, but that doesn’t make him better. Hinske had an OPS of .715 last season, and for his career, had an ops over .766 just once since his rookie-of-the-year 2002 until this year.
Mike, I don’t understand why I have to constantly correct your mistakes. are these intentional? it’s not hard to look up stats. hinske’s ops last year was .798 not .715.
and actually he has had 2 years with an ops over .766 since 2002, not 1.
please explain why you put up wrong stats.
MW: Because they’re not wrong. By “last year”, I meant 2007, when Hinske had an OPS of .715. You’d already established, and correctly so, that his OPS THIS year was .798. And re-read what I wrote – he has had an OPS over .766 just once from 2002 until this year.
- roccoCongratulations to Matt Stairs!! The Canadian’s got a championship ring! Very happy for the guy, he deserves it. Phillies were just the better team in the world series, timely hitting and great pitching. Perfect season for Brad Lidge, Amazing! Ryan’s just gonna get more criticism now each time he blows a save, people will just say why couldn’t he be like Lidge last year. But Lidge was truly remarkable this season. A perfect season like that may never be matched by another closer.
Phillies 2008 World Series Champs.
Hopefully it’s the Blue Jays turn in 2009.
Thanks for the great blogs Mike! Are you still gonna answer our questions in the offseason?
MW: I don’t know. Some, I guess, but not as many. Timely hitting? Did you watch the first 2 1/2 games?
- Ian (not Kinsler)Okay Mike, I’ll give you a Beatles fix, instead of the Stones….Hopefully J.P. Ricciardi will spend “A Hard Day’s Night” while he’s searching “Across The Universe” for Jake Peavy and he’ll say “Got To Get You Into My Life.”..If this is your last entry for a while Mr.Wilner, thanks for all the fun..really enjoy the friendly banter..if you’re hanging around, I’ll thank you again later.
- chris m.you asked to explain momentum. upton had what 8 homers in alcs, then suddenly gives up his bat to hall of fame and has no homers.
one thing you don’t understand mike is that momentum doesn’t last forever, it does stop at some point and you don’t know when. upton will eventually hit a homer again. he had the momentum when he was hitting the homers and then he lost it when he gave up his bat.
tbays’ offense had gone ice cold since they were up 8-1 in game 5. their offense has lost all momentum
MW: But wouldn’t they have had a ton of momentum because they were destroying the Red Sox in Games 2, 3, 4 and the first 2/3 of Game 5 of the ALCS? How could they not have finished off Game 5? And since the Red Sox had so much momentum from the comeback and the win in Game 6, how could they not have won Game 7?
- roccoDo you think Philadelphia Big 3(Utley,Howard and Rollins) is the best hitting Trio in the Majors?
MW: Not if you include Rollins. If you include Burrell instead, then maybe.
- andrewwhy do you want philly to win? so you don’t have to hear us tbay fans bash you all next year for bashing them?
I think boston would have destroyed phil if they had made it. tbay simply cracked under the pressure
- roccoToday in lecture we were talking about fossils. And it got me thinking about Tim McCarver and the era he caught in. You had guys like Bob Gibson pitching complete games on 2 days rest and 3 inning closers. Were pitchers just healthier? Did they have better mechanics? Why do you think things have changed so dramatically?
MW: Money.
- Jay Moneysince we are comparing hinske to overbay…
hinske has 2 carrer 20+ homer seasons, overbay 1
hinske has 3 career .790+ ops seasons (2 of the past 3), overbay 3 (only 1 of the past 3)
hinske makes a lot less than overbay
MW: Overbay has had an OPS+ over 120 twice, Hinske never has. Overbay has had an OPS+ over 106 three times, Hinske twice. Overbay has had an OPS+ under 100 or lower twice, Hinske four times. Overbay’s career OPS is .809, Hinske’s is .773. Overbay has hit 30 doubles or more five times, Hinske three. Can we stop this already?
- rocco