VOTE FOR TOM CHEEK!!!! DETAILS AND A LINK AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST!!!!
6:30 PM Eastern
The Blue Jays finished a frustrating, disappointing season in fine style, destroying the disinterested Orioles and dispersing to various destinations around the Western Hemisphere with a good taste in their collective mouth.
Vernon Wells needed to homer twice to make sure the Jays didn’t have their first non-strike season since 1977 without a 20-homer man, and he had that in the books by the fifth inning. He would finish the season with a .300 batting average with a 4-for-4 day, giving the Jays one regular with a batting average that high. Check that one, too. And his five RBIs gave him 78, just one shy of team leader Alex Rios.
Travis Snider went o-for-3, but a sac fly gave him 13 RBIs in 24 games while hitting 8th or 9th, which is pretty impressive. Despite finishing the season 0-for-his-last-9, Snider hit .301/.338/.466 in his late-season audition, and with the starting rotation in disarray, he may well have punched his ticket to an everyday job in 2009.
Not to disparage Snider at all – I think he’s a terrific hitter who is likely to have a great career – but great first impressions don’t always mean a player is ready. Adam Lind hit .367/.415/.600 as a September call-up in 2006 and followed it up with a .238/.278/.400 mark in the big leagues the next year.
Jesse Litsch was sensational again – who among you didn’t allow “perfect game” to creep into your head after the 3rd inning? – and even though the O’s quit on this season weeks ago, Litsch still went out and got the job done, limiting the Baltimores to a run on three hits over seven innings, with all three hits coming on ground balls. I was one of those who this spring wanted to see Casey Janssen as the Jays’ 5th starter. I was unimpressed by Litsch’s lack of stuff, propensity to give up home runs, and by the fact that lefties hit .308/.385/.478 against him last season.
He’s certainly proven me wrong. Even with the mid-season meltdown that wound up with him being sent to Syracuse (last time I’ll get to write that – sniff), Litsch finished the season with a 3.58 ERA and a 1.23 WHIP. I know you can’t throw out nine starts, but dig this: Remove the meltdown (June and July) and Litsch’s numbers are as follows:
12-3, 2.57. 1.103 WHIP, 0.43 HR/9 IP.
That’s outstanding, and it includes three starts against each of the Red Sox and Rays and two each against the powerful offenses of Texas and the White Sox, as well as a start each against the big bats of the Yankees, Phillies and Tigers.
Am I saying that Jesse Litsch could be the Jays’ number two starter next year? Heck, no. But I am saying that his detractors have a lot less about which to detract thanks to the statement he made with his performance this season.
The Blue Jays finished 2008 with a record of 86-76, their third-best mark since 1993. They wrapped up the season having scored 714 runs (cool baseball number) and allowed 610, a run differential of 104 to the good. That’s the second-best mark in the American League, behind only the Red Sox, and the fourth-best in all of major league baseball (with the Cubs and Phillies finishing 1st and 3rd). Of the top 10 teams in run differential this season, six are in the playoffs. The four that will miss are the Jays, Mets, Yankees and one of the Twins and White Sox. That’s pretty strong company to be in, just in case you’re one of those who still feels as though the Jays are mediocre, never mind the idiots who think they suck.
Yes, the Jays finished in 4th place in their division, but saying that “they’re a fourth-place team” is intellectually dishonest. Look at the other fourth-place teams this season: Kansas City (75-87), Seattle (61-101), Atlanta (72-90), St. Louis (86-76) and San Francisco (72-90). Only one of them finished within 10 games of the Jays.
They definitely need to get to work in the off-season to improve the starting pitching, because without A.J. Burnett and Shaun Marcum next season, and with Dustin McGowan’s availability still a huge question mark, they’re in trouble. But this is not a bad team, nor is it even a mediocre team.
The Jays wound up with four winning months this season, going 20-10 in May, 13-11 in July, 16-12 in August and 16-10 in September. April and June killed them. They played at a 63-99 pace those two months, and at a 98-64 pace the rest of the season.
Under Cito Gaston and his merry band of hitting coaches, the Jays were 51-37 – a 94-win pace over a full season.
We said our goodbyes at the end of the broadcast, but I just want to reiterate here how much of an honour and a pleasure it was to spend another year in the broadcast booth with Jerry Howarth and Alan Ashby. Like a lot of you, I grew up listening to Tom Cheek and Jerry calling Jays games, and watching Alan play both for the Jays and for some memorable Astros teams (1980 and ’86 spring to mind immediately). I was one of the kids who went to sleep with the radio on – I even had my parents buy me a pillow speaker from Radio Shack so I didn’t keep the whole house up. To actually be in that booth is an extraordinary thrill. And Tom Young did a phenomenal job in his first year as our engineer/producer. It’s not easy to step into an established situation like we have in there, but we couldn’t have asked for more than what Tom provided. It’s amazing – we’ve made two changes to the crew in the last two years, and I don’t think either one could possibly have worked out better.
The final edition of The JaysTalk for this season wasn’t a very lengthy one, especially given the super-long phone segments we’d had the two days prior because of the rain delays, but it certainly wasn’t our last chance to talk baseball. I’ll be taking calls after every one of the post-season games we have on the network throughout the month of October.
Here’s this afternoon’s The JaysTalk, for your listening pleasure:
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MAKE SURE you tune into the Fan590 – or listen live on this very website - Monday morning at 11:00 AM Eastern, because I’ll be spending an hour in-studio with Mike Hogan and Mike Toth. Also spending the hour with us………….Richard Griffin. Then, later in the afternoon, J.P. Ricciardi will do his annual end-of-season sitdown with the media, and I’ll post about that and remind you again to vote for Tom Cheek. You can count on pretty much daily posts throughout the playoffs (with the exception of the High Holidays), and I’ll continue to answer comments through the post-season as well.
Now, you only have three more opportunities this month, so once again PLEASE vote for Tom Cheek and ONLY for Tom Cheek to be on the ballot for the Ford C. Frick Award to gain entry into the broadcasters’ wing of the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. It’ll make more of an impact on the voters if Tom alone gets the overwhelming majority of the votes. Just click on this link:
http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/awards/frick_2008/vote.jsp
It’s a bit of a pain to fill out all the info, but it only takes two minutes at the most, and Tom Cheek was certainly worth your time. Remember, you can vote once a day throughout the month of September, so it’s just today, tomorrow and Tuesday that are left. Thank you.
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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Curse that Mussina!!!
MW: I second that emotion.
- Joe N.Interesting. I didn’t even watch today’s game. The first year in 14 years I didn’t watch them to the end. I’m glad they won. But I feel strangely disinterested.
MW: But interested enough to show up here!
- reyesGood evening Norm
Thanks for a wonderful job this season. You must love this job very much. Is it just me or do I see opposing pitchers getting Snider out a lot on inside breaking pitches. Will he be going to the Arizona League this year?
MW: He’s going, but given his September, only as an observer. Who’s Norm?
- StanWhat do you think of Cliff Lee sitting out his last start with a, um, “stiff neck”?
MW: I don’t think it would have made the difference between him winning or losing the Cy. I thought he might have White Soxitis, but it turns out he’d pitched very well against them this season.
- Flaming MoeMike,
Will you be posting your hour on the Bullpen in your blog? I’m not sure I’ll be able to listen but I’m dying to hear you take on Toth.
The only thing better would be an hour on PrimeTime. I’d pay to listen to you and Bob have a discussion.
MW: Toth mostly sat out of it, but it’s in hot audio.
- Mikemike
thanks for your hard work this year. i know of no other broadcaster that puts forth the effort that you do. jays talk is fantastic, this blog is off the charts.
good job brother! keep it up.
MW: Thank you very much!
- kurt kMike,
It was certainly a pleasure hearing you once again doing the phone call showson the network.
You always do a fantastic job on the radio show
I hope that Jerry will be back next season along with Allan. I hope that you’ll be back as well.
Do you enjoy hockey as well?
Will you be on the Fan during the off season a little bit as well after playoffs? I hope that the Jays can make it next year to the playoffs.
Thanks for all the work that you did. I’d be interested in what you have to say.
Thanks.
MW: Thank you. I’m sure Jerry and Alan will be back, and I hope I will, too. I’ll be on a bit during the off-season, but not too much unless something baseballic is going down.
- Ali MoosaMike…Knowing you’re not a big believer in certain intangibles such as the overused cliches like “team chemistry” or “Go-to-guy” here’s a question I’ll throw at you that could involve that intangible category. Jack Morris was one of those go-to guys and a “throwback” type for lack of a better term. Sparky Anderson practically worshipped the guy and that’s fair considering his success with the Tigers. If you had to pitch one guy in game 162(I purposely didn’t pick a playoff game because Doc hasn’t been there yet) would you select Morris or Halladay, with Roy being another one of those “get out my way and give me the ball” guys..Sorry for the cliche factory
MW: I think that Halladay’s overall numbers are better than Morris’, but Jack did pitch the best Game 7 ever.
- chris m.Thank you Mike for a fantastic year of baseball commentary.
MW: My pleasure.
- Aaron - from HamiltonThanks for your work during the season Mike. I will cetainly be in blue jay bloggage withdrawal for a few weeks, but as always I will have a good reason to look forward to next spring. You where bang on when giving credit to “the crew”, and I love the job that Ashby did this season, but I have been wondering what happened to Warren Sawkew(sp). I honestly think people gave him a lot tougher critique than he deserved. i will admit that he was very choppy and inexperienced when he first started, but I thought he improved as his career progressed. I guess he never really did any play by play though, did he? Also, can you tell me why some mlb teams don’t wear their names on the back of their uniforms? This bothers me, especially when I am watching a team in the National league that you don’t watch everyday and you don’t have a clue who the players are. I wish mlb would make that a rule for all teams to observe. I never realized until this season that the Jays didn’t wear their names at home back in the day. I noticed there are no names on their “flashback friday” powder blue uniforms. Anyway Mike, enjoy the off season.
Dan
MW: Warren is still doing baseball, he did the Olympics for CBC, but no, he’s not a play-by-play guy. It’s more traditional, I guess, for teams to go nameless on the uniform backs.
- Dan from ElmvaleMike,
What do u think of this off season plan
-sign Ryan Dempster
-sign Brad Penny (expecting L.A. doesn’t pick up the option
-trade B.J. Ryan, Brian Tallet, Brian Wolfe and Chad Beck if not more for Jhony Perealta
- go hard after Manny if you can’t get him settle for Giambi/Ibanez/Delgado
-sign a veteran catcher like estrada or valentin to hold arincebia’s spot
- Try to trade Overbay and some pitchers for a good 1B(Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder) if you can
MW: I don’t think they should sign Dempster, anticipating the money and term he’ll command, given his history. Penny as a cheap flier is fine by me. I’m not sure you would have to give up that much for Peralta, but he’d be a nice add. Where are you going to get the money for Manny if you sign Dempster and Penny? Delgado likely won’t be a free agent, by the way. I like Javier Valentin. Depends which pitchers.
- JazzMike, the only people who think that the jays suck are the idiots, or the ones that watched the blue jays win the world series, and then had their hearts broke when they finished last in 1995 and haven’t been able to make it to the playoffs since ’93.
MW: There sure are a lot of them, though.
- gregHey Mike, just wanted to say thanks for another great job this year. I enjoy your work on the radio and with the blog. You probably won’t remember but I was the guy who razzed you a bit at the beginning of the season when you predicted that the Pirates (my favourite NL team) would have a “breakout year” in the NL central. I am sorry to say I told you so on that one. That organization just seems to find ways to get worse and worse, with no end in sight. Good thing the Jays at least try to field a competitive team each year.
MW: Pittsburgh and Cincinnati really surprised me this year. I thought they’d both be a lot better.
- JeffOn a scale of 1-100, with 100 being good, what would you say are the Blue Jays’ chances of resigning Burnett?
Are the stories true that they are feverishly trying to work out an extension with him?
MW: 2. Feverishly? I don’t think feverishly.
- CamThanks for all your hard work this year. Your show helped change my wife from a lifelong soccer fan into a new Blue Jays fan and flex pack subscriber in one season.
Also I think you’re the only person in the industry (athletes/sportscasters) who does not over use the words ‘Obviously’ and ‘aggresvie’. Thanks for that.
MW: I also don’t use “situation” all that much. Or “football”. Thanks for the kind words!
- C BrewA caller earlier in the week said it best when he said that baseball is good summer friend. There are obviously many people just obsessed with stats but some people simply love the game for being what it is. I am sure you realize that, in a strange way, you and Jerry and Alan almost become family for 6 months of the year and we thank you for such wonderful entertainment and we will miss it. Of course there are the playoffs which some years can be fabulous when one team isn’t dominant. I always hope each series goes the limit so we get 5 or 7 games, except, of course, when the Yankees are playing and then I hope for a short, cruel death. But then its over, at least in Toronto. However last year I found WFAN. No one here will believe this but they talk baseball ALL YEAR LONG! It’s wonderful. True, it’s the Mets and Yankees but it’s still baseball.
One question: until recently you were really, really high on the Jays chances next year. Then Marcum got hurt. McGowan had been out for weeks and everyone has known forever that AJ wouldn’t be coming back, so why did you do a 180 degree turn over one guy? I totally agree with your current assessment that they are probably dead meat in 2009, but don’t understand your very sudden about face.
Anyway, thank you and the FAN again for the season, for Sunday night baseball, and for bringing us the playoffs.
MW: Thank you very much! Marcum, I think, was the straw that broke the camel’s back. With a healthy Marcum and an emerging Litsch and Purcey, I figured the Jays could make it through the month with McGowan on the shelf. Remember, Marcum was the best pitcher on the best staff in baseball for the first half of the season. Without him, you’re hoping Litsch and Purcey can each slide up two spots, and you need two guys to help get you through the month (possibly longer) without McGowan. That’s trouble.
- susanGreat job this season Mike. Thanks for your hard work. Its always a pleasure to listen to your show.
MW: Much appreciated.
- JonIt was still a great season to watch. Shortly the off season drama can begin. I’m glad that Vernon led the team in HR. He took a lot of flack this season by fans on the radio show over the season.
But this free agency season may not pan out as fans like. Toronto is not a baseball first city which will immediately take some of the biggest names off the list. We are also a little to fairweather as fans when players mess up just once (like B.J. ryan’s adventurous saves down the stretch or Scott Downs in Boston). Players see this hear about it and want no part of it. So maybe as Fans we can take it easy on our Jays and be a lot more supportive and not try to run guys out of town.
All the best in the off season Mike
MW: I don’t think the fact that Toronto isn’t a baseball-first town or the fan’s fairweatherness has any impact on a player’s desire to come here as a free agent. In fact, those two points seem to contradict each other.
- DonnySo April and June killed the Jays’ season and Cito et al were a too little and too late to pull it all out. Its all a little easier to live with than the Mets’ fans have.
Although there are a lot of question marks with respect to the Jays’ pitching staff (who will show up next year?) it seems to me that relatively speaking they are in pretty good shape and might be in a position to make a deal with the Mets to shore up their pen. I like Jose Reyes and wonder whether he could be had for BJ Ryan and maybe someone else. I don’t know what his contract situation is or whether the Mets have anyone else in their system to take over at ss.
Reyes is a good lead off hitter and certainly would be a big addition to what is now pretty much a one man show in terms of the team’s running game.
MW: Jose Reyes can’t be had for a closer.
- Jack de KlerkMike, did some math in support of Doc. If you take the difference of Cliff Lee’s run support of 6.13 minus Doc’s of 4.72 you get 1.41 per 9 innings or 0.157 per inning pitched. Multiply that by Doc’s 246 innings you get 38.54 extra run for Doc over the season. Divide that by the number of starts of 33 you get that, per start Doc would get an extra 1.16 runs. Doc had 6 1-run losses that could have been wins with Cliff Lee’s run support. A lot of math but somewhat proves that wins are a meaningless stat for pitchers and Doc had the better season.
MW: Halladay did have the better season, but just barely. It’s OK that Lee is going to win the Cy Young.
- DarrylThanks for the Season Mike.
MW: Thanks for listening.
- SeanI have to say Mike I have really enjoyed your show this season and I am already counting the days until opening day next year to hear Jays talk again. I do agree that Burnett is only saying what the people want to hear that he loves the city and hinting he might stay but I get the feeling that Burnett would go back to the Marlins if the offered him 30 million a season, it seems like he wants us to think he cares about winning but all he wants is to fill his pocket as much as he can and personally if he comes back it would suprise me as much as it would suprise everyone that the leafs won the cup LOL.
Who do you think the jays have at least a chance of signing in the offseason as far as starting pitching goes?
MW: They definitely have a shot of signing guys like Freddy Garcia, Carl Pavano, Pedro Martinez, Jamie Moyer and maybe Brad Penny. But they may have a solid shot at trading for Jake Peavy, and how cool would that be?
- RoyceSo once again the Mets miss the cut…this time due to a faulty bullpen.
Is there some way the Jays could get Reyes? Put together some kind of package…a couple relievers and a Lind or an Overbay? I don’t really know how plausible something like this would be…just a thought.
MW: I don’t think it’s all that plausible, but I’m sure they’ll try.
- ClayMr. Wilner,
I’d just like to say thanks for guiding us through another season of Blue Jays baseball. I’d like to extend that to your broadcasting team of Howarth and Ashby, as well as callers John and Adrian (?). A good time was had all around.
A question, if I may: What is the calendar date for free agent filings, opting out, etc.? I guess the reason is obvious…
Thanks again,
MW: Burnett can opt out 10 days after the World Series. Players can file for free agency either 24 or 48 hours after the World Series.
- MoyashiMike,
You said recently “The hitters lack of performance is on the hitters, not the guy who hired them”.
Consider this: One of the main components for producing runs is speed and the Jays are sadly lacking there. Apart from Rios with 32 stolen bases nobody else has more than 9 and the team has totalled 80. There is almost a direct correlation between position in the division and stolen bases (TB 141, Boston 119, NY 113, Tor 80 and Bal 81). LAA with 128 was way in front of everyone else in the AL West and the AL Central had not much speed with the disappointing Detroit having 59. The trend continues in the NL with very few exceptions. The Phillies, Mets and Dodgers all run a lot. In addition, teams with only one or zero base-stealing threats (Tor, Bal, Sea, Atl, Det etc) are all at the bottom of the tables.
The various ways in which speed helps a team to score runs are too numerous to spell out here. The pitchers in Texas were glad when Pudge left because he called only fast-balls when there was a runner on base! Now those of us who want to trade Rios need to think again! (base-stealing threats at 1st base also cause pitchers to throw over a lot).
The second component for producing runs is power and the Jays have none. Everyone else in the AL East had over 170 HR while we had 123, and every playoff team has power in the middle of the line-up.
The thought of 40 HR standing on deck make pitchers think twice about walking the guy at the plate.
Ted Williams said “The first rule in hitting is to get a good pitch (fast ball) to hit”. Teams with speed and power get more good pitches to hit than teams without.
If Mr Ricciardi will get us a big bat at clean-up and a short-stop who can steal bases we will score more runs and play better defense.
And you would be surprised how much the improved run production will help the pitching (ask Jack Morris)!
MW: I’m with you on the power, but not the speed aspect.
- Cito ManThanks for the season Mike.
And how about the Canadian Brain Trust in Milwaukee of Melvin/Ash making the post-season? They stuck to their plan of building around a solid core of youngsters and added that extra piece @ the right time.
That trade for Sabathia has to be looked @ as the move of the year.
MW: It was an incredible trade, but the Brewers made the playoffs by the skin of their teeth (and don’t seem as though they’re going to be there too long) and only had four more wins than the Jays.
- JasonHey Mike,
Congratulations to Lyle Overbay for hitting his 15th home run. That brought him to within five of Eric Hinske (who had 150 fewer at-bats) or any other first baseman in the AL East this season.
If Overbay had only hit 14 home runs, it would have been the lowest total by an everyday Blue Jays first baseman in a full season since Willie Upshaw hit eight in 1986. So thank goodness Overbay hit his 15th and at least matched Hinske’s total at first base from 2005.
Also enjoyed the give-and-take the other night when you admitted: “Hinske over Overbay is VERY debatable . . .”
Sorry to yell, but just like the all-capital letters response that followed, THE SIMPLE FACT WE”RE DEBATING OVERBAY AND HINSKE PROVES THE POINT.
I can see teams throughout baseball lining up for Overbay.
Congratulations should also be extended to Scott Rolen for his 11 home runs as the everyday third baseman, surpassing the totals of Tony Fernandez in 1999 (6) and Rance Mulliniks in 1984 (3).
Of course, J.P. Ricciardi takes no responsibility for this production, because he didn’t go out and get these guys. J.P. only takes credit for the pitching staff.
By the way, just off the top of my head, but I remember finding it very odd that when Hinske received his 2002 AL Rookie of the Year award at the SkyDome opener in 2003, that J.P. Ricciardi was right there on the field with Hinske for the award, with the announcer specifically mentioning it was Ricciardi who acquired Hinske from Oakland.
Would Brian Cashman insist on being beside A-Rod for a photo op at A-Rod’s 2005 AL MVP ceremony, insisting that Bob Sheppard introduce A-Rod as someone who Cashman acquired in the off-season? Up until J.P. Ricciardi came along, I had never seen a general manager part of an on-field player ceremony, let alone a stadium announcer so enthusiastically tell the full crowd which general manager acquired the player.
So, yeah, I guess J.P. likes to take credit for the mild successes and come up with excuses for everything else.
MW: I love that acquiring an unknown minor-leaguer who became rookie of the year in one of his first-ever trades is now a mild success for Ricciardi. I don’t remember J.P. being on the field, nor do I remember Murray Eldon announcing that he was the one who acquired Hinske, but really, who cares?
- Ken PaganHey Mike, question about Litsch…Many of the baseball pundits stated that Litsch didn’t have the stuff to be a front end starter in a starting rotation. My question was has there been a discernible change in Jesse since coming back from the Minors that could result in him being a front-end starter. He’s throwing with more velocity now and I just was wondering whether he’s now more than just a legit #4-5 starter and not just a top end starter because of the Jays circumstances next season.
Great job this season and i plan on listening to old shows as part of my bedtime routine now that there will be no more Jays Talk on a regular basis.
MW: Wow, thanks! I don’t know. I’m still not sold on Litsch as a mid-rotation guy, but he’s done everything that’s been asked of him and more. Maybe he can be a legit 3.
- paul sBlog Question: Rays in first place first 6 weeks of the season. Kind of belies all that got to spend to win in the east JP talk Mike
Mike Wilner answer: Let’s see where they are at the all star break.
BQ: Rays in first place at all star break Mike
MWA: Let’s seee where they are come the end of the season
BQ: Rays win east Mike
MWA: Let’s see what happens in the post season. OR Let’s see what they do next year?
BQ: Jays win 86 and have one 20 homer guy, still not as good as Tim Johnson year.
MWA: Its never enough with you guys
BQ: What is with the Jays not being able to score with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs.
MWA: Have you ever hit major league pitching? No tell when you have.
BQ: Horrible start Jays already out of it Mike
MWA: Baseball’s a marathon not a sprint. You think the Rays will be there at the end, not me.
BQ: Team can’t hit its weight Mike
MWA: That’s why they call it baseball
BQ: Jays can’t seem to start a win streak Mike
MWA: Look at all the injuries they’ve had. Hard to win with guys out of the lineup
BQ: Yeah but other teams have to deal injuries and they do fine.
MWA: Yeah, but you can’t compare situations.
BQ: No other manager has been allowed to have the non post season appearances that JP has been allowed.
MWA: JP’s a great guy and do you honestly think he doesn’t want to win.
See yah next season, same time same finish same defensive non answers and snide remarks to people who question if you really understand what your talking about. But then, that’s why they call it baseball.
MW: Sigh.
- Stephen SmithMike
This person who can predict the future? He is an idiot. As to his reference to Boston and comparing it to Hamilton – it is like comparing Forest Hill to Scarborough. He obviously did not look at the revenue generated by the Red Sox. Amazing and amusing…
MW: See above if you want more amazing and amusing.
- francis xHi Mike; do you think top prospect Vernon Wells has a future with the Jays, possibly as a starting CF?
MW: He’ll never make it.
- ZackMike, thanks for a great year of blogs this year, and Happy New Year!
MW: Thanks. You, too!
- Shmuel YitzchokHi Mike,
I wanted to say thank you for all the hard work you did this year. I read your blog every day and listened to almost every Jays talk and you did another fantastic job covering the Jays. You certainly enhanced what was a fairly enjoyable season.
And a fairly enjoyable season it was. It was incredibly frustrating at times but was fun to watch especially with so many great pitching performances. Zaun’s walk-off grand slam was probably the highlight for me aside from every time Doc pitched.
I feel a bit uneasy about next season with the pitching staff issues, but I have a feeling it’ll work out somehow. Aside from hitting with RISP earlier in the season and occasionally in late season I think the biggest issue with the Jays was not hitting well against lefties. Correct me if I’m wrong but aside from maybe Hill, do they have anyone that hits lefities better than righties? I know Mench was supposed to but to me the lack of lefty crushing was one of their biggest downfalls (having lost their tree lefty crushers from the year before in Thomas, Glaus, and Johnson). They made a lot of average lefties look like Cy Young.
With that being said; as much as I’d like to see Giambi or Ibanez, neither are lefty crushers to my knowledge, which kind of leaves Rameriez who I doubt they’ll get.
How do they fix that problem next year? Are there more Keven Mench like people out there- inexpensive lefty specialists- who they can take a flyer on. I know Sexson is available– do they experiment there?
Or is there a bonafide every day player who can fill that void?
Thoughts?
MW: You’re right about the lack of lefty-crushage. They never did address what they lost in that regard. You’re also right on Giambi and Ibanez, but Wells has been a lefty-crusher in the past, and should be again, so there’s one more. I think that lefty-crushers are relatively easy to come by (which makes it even worse that the Jays never got one this year) – there are guys on the market like Moises Alou, Sexson, Mark Ellis, Jeff Kent,even Morgan Ensberg, Emil Brown, Juan Rivera and Jay Payton.
- ChrisThank you Mike for being one of the sounds of my summer this year.
I have made peace with the fact that Cliff Lee will take the Cy Young over Doc. I will however make one last gripe about it. I really don’t know how stiff Cliff’s neck was yesterday but I’m diasppointed that the “top” started in the AL took a powder and sat out a start that directly impacted the playoffs. I dislike Williams/Guillen so it’s easy to cheer for the Twins. I really wanted to see Lee soil the Sox playoff bid.
A final observation – as I watched the Brewers/Mets/Twins/Sox sputter down the last few days of the season – desperate for wins – it really made me realize how fortunate we are in Toronto to have the best Bullpen in the game. A real shame it could not be showcased for a wider audience in the playsoffs.
MW: It is a shame, indeed. Too bad they couldn’t hit enough.
- Ian CHey Mike;
Hope Riccardi signs a cheap flyer on Pavano/byrd/p.martinez, and or goes after sheets, A.j will go to the yankees and their millions of liquidity(they should help out the banking sector!) for an obsence contract, just wondering if Sabathia will recieve more than a.j. Litsch will probably fill the number three role and quite possibly the number two role two years from now, he is a star in the making, hope riccardi signs ibanez or trades for a bat with hr power-only thing this team needed this year for a post season birth-keep up the good work.
MW: Sabathia will get way more money than Burnett.
- robert.sThanks again Mike. Your blog has become the first place I go to get Jays analysis.
I, like you, find myself defending JP only because some of his critics are way over the top and make stuff up to further their arguments. He’s flawed, like us all, but has done an admirable job.
One final question, is their any possibility Pat Gillick will return to the organization in the near future – perhaps as President to replace Godfrey?
MW: Thanks. There’s definitely a possiblity that Gillick could replace Godfrey, but the stronger rumours have him going to Seattle.
- DanHi Mike, I just want to say I love your show as well as the pre-games shows. Back in May, I believe it was Mother’s Day, you were talking about being at a rain delay game years ago. I wondered if it was the same game I took my Dad to – it was on Father’s Day and it was at Exhibition Stadium. The two of us sat there through the rain delay – the Jays came out on the field and put on a show sliding the bases in the rain and so on – it was a blast! It was one of the best times I had with my Dad. We sat there huddled together under an umbrella enjoying our Jays antics! There couldn’t have been more than 200 fans left by the time they resumed the game! My sister was at home with an eye on the game (she’s not a baseball fan) just so she would know when to have supper ready for us! You brought back a wonderful memory and I thank you for that. I’ve learned a lot from you as well. When the Jays are playing night games I usually take the dog for a walk right after the game. I take my walkman along so that I can listen to your Jays Talk. My husband gets a little ticked off when he tries to talk and I’m shushing him! Anyway, keep up the good work Mike. Your shows are the icing on the cake for the games! Thanks!
MW: Thank you very much! I’m pretty sure that Father’s Day game was the one on my mind.
- Judy MorleyHey Mike,
Not to take away from yesterdays win but the ‘O’s mailed it in. Whatever’s going on in Baltimore these days is verging on ‘sad’. The players don’t seem to care so why should the fans?
What a contrast with the Jays who showed up to play. Can’t wait for spring training.
marcuspeaks
MW: The Orioles have been a September embarrassment for the entirety of this century.
- marcHi Mike,
Thanks for your significant part to the Blue Jays entertainment package via the Fan this year, Mike!
Unfortunately the Jays season was over when JP couldn’t get that bat at the trading deadline but imagine my joy and surprise when Cito actually mentioned Milton Bradley (my choice back in June although you were not high on him) who has had (despite his post knee surgery leg issues this year) a truly significant year batting at or near .320 from both sides.
The emergence of Snider makes my line-up (with Bradley) as
Inglett (w/ Hill)
Bradley (LF -signed as a F/A)
Rios (RF)
Snider (DH-but back-up O/F)
Wells (CF)
Overbay
Rolen
Barajas (option pick-up)
Vazquez (w/ Scutaro)
and keeping Hill. After following Texas, I’ve given
up on our chances for Bird and
Boggs but Vazquez did it all from them (over .300 most of the year) as a LH bat, at 3rd and SS and I would go after him to replace McDonald and
Bautista. Lind can stay or
go back to Las Vegas, and if Milton is still a littly shaky injury wise, Lind is the perfect back-up!
A platoon of two LH and two
RH hitting infielders would
work. That leaves the back-up
catcher for JP to figure out.
But, what do I know, I’m just a fan after all.
Have a great off season Mike!
MW: I’m not a Bradley fan, but if anyone can control him, Cito is probably the guy. Of course, I don’t think anyone can control him. I don’t think Ramon Vazquez is an answer at short, either.
- BRick from OakvilleMike, does the fantastic finish really matter ?
Take a look at these easy stats,(you can look it up yourself, took only a few minutes).
2002 78-84, 8-16 in April, 19-8 in September
2003 86- 76,10-18 in April, 19-7 in September
2004 65-97,7-15 in April,13-16 in September/October
2005 80-82,13-12 in April, 13-16 in September/October
2006 87-75,12-11 in April, 17-11 in Sepetmebr/October
2007 83-79,13-12 in April 15-13 in September/October
2008 86-76,11-17 in April
16-10 in September
In total,74-101 422.ball in April,when the team should be winning. You always say on your program, there is lots of season to go !!! Well.
112-81 .580 ball in September, when the Jays are already out of the race. So what about strong finishes. This is window dressing.
Why won’t this team learn to play games in April like it matters ?
The samething will happen in 2009, possibly stronger hitting,along with probable weaker pitching, should give us another mediocre season, fighing for 4th place in the AL East.
MW: You honestly think that they don’t believe that games in April matter?
- PeterJesse Litsch is the type of pitcher the Jays should never give up or trade. He will always be undervalued and underpaid because he doesn’t have the sexy fastball or strikeout numbers. He is as solid as a #5 as they will ever find (of course he could be slotted a lot higher next year).
MW: I’ve always said that I’ll trade anyone if it makes the team better.
- Jim Bjust to rub it in….Mike Mussina wins 20!!!!! i love it…have a nice summer and i hope the Jays sign the Moose….that would be sweet.
MW: How can you enjoy that?
- David Battistonmike,
was just curious.
i sent in a note on your blog last week after the halladay game vs. the yanks.
just made mention of a couple observations i had.
finally had a chance to see your response. but no response given.. ever other entry yes. just not mine. did i say something wrong? don’t think my addition to your blog was any less than worthy than any of the others i read. would love to know if you could.
and a new thought to share which i wouldn’t mind hearing your response on.
the more i look at the jays situation re: their bullpen particularly looking forward (which is what we should be doing now for obvious reasons) it certainly seems to me that serious exploration into the idea of trading b.j. is very much a prudent one for 2 main reasons.
firstly, with the abilities that downs, carlson & league have shown and with the likelyhood of accardo & janssen returning as well, you almost have to do it don’t you, considering above.
i mean to run a sports organization properly & effectively you do have to trade (if you are) from a place of depth & strength. and no doubt this is this organizations greatest place of strength.
but the other thought i have on this, is this…. to some degree i suppose find it difficult to warrant paying a starting pitcher the same kind of $(or more) than you would a guy playing every day as opposed to every 5th day. but paying a guy $10M + per yr. for someone coming in for a single inning every couple of days for the most part and maybe pitching in enough innings to total 50 innings is really quite a stretch in justifying the money paid out.
needless to say, a closer is paramount in having ultimate success in mlb, but i’m thinking in the case of t.o’s ball club (that $10M could be used elsewhere with much greater purpose)
mostly curious what your thoughts are on the value aspect of it is mike…..
MW: First off, I didn’t find anything unworthy about your previous comment, I just didn’t think it required my input. You made a point, didn’t ask a question or anything. As for this one, yes, I think they should explore trading Ryan, too, for the reasons you mention, but they shouldn’t simply give him away just to clear salary. If they can improve in another area – value for value – then yes, make that deal from a position of strength.
- darrell bishopMike, I’m a bit annoyed at the fact that baseball doesn’t bother making up games when they have no playoff significance. For the sake of records, stats, etc… that enable us to compare and contrast teams and players over time, it would be nice if every team played all 162 games and not have a handful playing 160 or 161 year to year.
MW: Sorry, I can’t get too excited about that.
- JordanHi Mike,
i’m reading John Shuerholz’s book at the moment ‘built to win’ it’s very interesting. I’m wondering if you have any idea what happened to John Rocker? the controversy even made news at the time over here when his crass stupid and insensitive comments broke.
Thanks again for all your hard work over the course of the season, you have added a whole new dimension to my summer, and my Baseball and blue Jay fanship. As a side benefit i feel my spelling and punctuation have improved immeasureably as well.
What on earth do you do all winter?
MW: Thanks for the kind words! Rocker pops up every once in a while on various and sundry talk shows, but he flamed out of the big leagues pretty quickly – threw better strikes with his mouth than he could with his left arm. All winter? I decompress.
- ukJayJust about every single one of last year’s young pitching heroes who rode to the mound and salvaged the 2007 season for the Jays is either recovering from injury or is now facing surgery, viz. Ryan, Marcum, Janssen, McGowan, and Accardo. Is this cluster an anomaly or were these kids thrown in the deep end too soon by a desperate management? One can’t help but wonder.
PS.When writing in your blog of yesterday, did you really mean to describe the Orioles as “disinterested?” I don’t know anything about their impartiality but I did think they looked quite “uninterested.”
MW: Ryan is no kid, and if you look at the workloads of the four young guys, I don’t think you could rationally conclude that they were “thrown into the deep end too soon by desperate management”. The second dictionary definition of “disinterested” is ‘not interested; indifferent.” Thanks, though.
- IssyHi Mike
Any idea on who may replace Godfrey and what the time frame may be for his successor to be named?
MW: I assume they’d want the new guy in place by January 1st, if not sooner. I have no clue who the replacement will be, there are several strong candidates.
- DavidHi Mike;
I’m still trying to make an accurate evaluation of JP’s tenure as GM in Toronto. Dave Dombrowski has taken the Tigers to the playoffs, but other than that has not done well. Back when JP was hired I was hoping Dombrowski would be hired. In your opnion would he have been more successful than JP here in Toronto? Interestingly enough Gord Ash is in the playoffs ahead of JP. It seems every year JP has been here the Jays get a lot of crucial long-term injuries. I don’t believe in luck, but the Jays have certainly had a lot of bad luck under JP in the injury department. To reiterate would the Jays have been better off with Dombrowski, Gord Ash or someone else back when JP was hired? If yes than whom? If no then why?
Thanks for your time,
Marc
MW: Dombrowski’s Tigers finished in last place this year and are now looking to cut payroll and start over. But they did get to the World Series, so that’s probably something a lot of fans would take. As for Gord Ash, he is in the playoffs the same way that Ricciardi was in the playoffs with the A’s. He’s the assistant. There is, of course, no way to know how the Jays would have fared had someone else been running the show the last seven years.
- Marc NicholsonHey Mike,
Looking back at the season, I have some questions for you.
How many at-bats or innings pitched in your opinion can give management and the player in question sufficient evaluation for long-term considerations. For example, early in May (i think), Adam lind was called up, got 19 at-bats, and was sent down again. I thought that it really wasn’t fair that he wasn’t given a fair chance. (I think 60 at-bats or 15 innings is a decent evaluation for a player)
If the Jays manage to sign a strong DH (!Manny!, or Ibanez), do you think we should try to ship Lyle Overbay so Snider can play 1B? Lind could move there too right? I heard he’s played 1B before, when he was in college I think.
Do the Jyas have anychance in signing CC or Sheets? Do you even think they’re worth getting? Sheets seems a little injury prone doesn’t he…
If you could jus answer these Mike, thanks. I’d also like to say I enjoy your show immensely. Keep it up!
MW: Thanks. I don’t have a number in mind as to how many at-bats or innings is a fair evaluation. It depends on the player, the big picture rather than the pure numbers, and the team situation. Look at Aaron Hill’s first six weeks in 2006, or Dustin Pedroia’s last year. And 15 innings? Two starts? That’s not much of a shot. I don’t get the excitement about moving Overbay. I think that if the Jays sign that DH-type then Lind is the guy to deal, because they’d be able to get a lot more back for him, and this is a bad time to deal Overbay. The Jays have no chance on Sabathia, and I don’t like Sheets with his injury history.
- IvanI’m surprised the Jays are affiliated with Las Vegas – not only is it pretty far from Toronto, but is it really a place where you want to send 20 odd young men?
What happened to Buffalo?
MW: The Mets swooped in and stole Buffalo. What’s odd about the Jays’ top-level minor-leaguers?
- Sam McLeanMike,
How is it that the 100 win Angels have to play the 95 win Red Sox, while the 97 win Rays get to play the 88 win winner of the central division?? What’s the difference if two teams from the AL East meet in the first round or the second round?? I would imagine this isn’t the first time this situation has unfolded, but something should be done about this.
If baseball attendance keeps going up every year why not expand the American league by two teams and create 4 divisions of 4 teams for each League… Portland, Salt Lake, Indianapolis, Oklahoma City.. There’s no reason to think that any of these cities would do worse attendance wise than say the Marlins or Rays…
Atleast this way, you’ll eliminate the wild card and seed 1 will play 4 and 2 will play 3….
And who knows.. perhaps it’ll get the Jays out of the East and into a Central Division..
MW: I don’t know what eliminating the wild card would do – you could still have a division winner with 87 wins and a second-place team in another division with 91. I don’t understand why MLB insists on not allowing teams in the same division to meet in the first round. You’re right, it can be pretty unfair.
- Dapper DanBy the way Mike, Happy New Year.
MW: Thank you!
- gregawwww crap ! I just realized Mussina did get his 20th win on Sunday. Well I hope he had help getting his head through the doorway on the way out of Fenway.
Now I’m even more bummed-out he beat the Jays last week.
- Ian CSometime during the rain delays and such over the weekend, I heard you trot out the “10 hits in the right place and this team would be right there in contention” line. This whine is the music of losers. Any of the Yankees, Mets, Cardinals et al could say as much. This team, again, was not good enough. Faced with an opportunity this month, they came up empty.
I don’t look at them as a fourth place team, either. Seventh, actually–again.
The 8′th year of the 5 year plan about to begin and the 87 win mark of the Ash era still stands!
J.C.
MW: 88 wins was the high-water mark of the Ash era, by the way. You’re right, though, any of the Yankees, Mets and Cardinals could probably say the same thing (not necessarily, but probably), which just shows you how close they all were, and how much plain old dumb luck plays into it.
- jchenryHey Mike
Enjoy your show. Im just wondering when we will be notified of the winner of the Ford C. Frick Award?
MW: December 9th, I believe.
- JamesMike, I just want to say thank you for all your hard work this year, you’re always punctual, intellectual and responsible with your blog, posting after each game and responding to ~100 comments per post. That was only second to the excellent work both you, Jerry and Alan. Have a great summer with the kids and wife, enjoy the World Series and World Baseball Classic, and I’ll look forward to hearing you next year
MW: Thanks very much! Are you giving me a trip to Australia, though?
- JerryHey Mike, great way to finish the season. A special treat was the incredible day at the dish that Wells had. Going 4 for 4 with 2 homeruns and 5 rbi’s and finishing with a 300avg. was fantastic. I know you said on the post game show that it’ll be hard not having Jerry and Alan around for awhile but just remember absence makes the heart grow fonder. Anyway I’ve got my Leafs to keep me company for the winter. Yes I know its a kick in the face but I love them and hey the Raptors look promising (hopefully Jermaine O’Neal can stay healthy and provide that interior threat, both offensively and defensively).
Back to the Jays, overall a season of highs and lows. I can’t help but think that if certain things had gone the Jays way a postseason birth could have been realized. Oh well thus the nature of sports in general. I still enjoyed my nightly routine in front of the idiot box (as my father used to refer to it, as I’m sure many did) and the one game I was able to attend back in April (a game they won incidently). They were a thoroughly frustrating team at times but equally entertaining just the same.
As I scan the roster on the offensive side of the ledger (of course the source of most of our frustrations) I can’t help but see past the disappointing numbers of this season (with a look to next year and beyond) and look to perhapes a more accurate gage in terms of projections by citing overall career numbers for many of the players on this roster. I feel that Vernon Wells is capable of putting up 30-32 homeruns while batting around .285-.300 with an OBP of about .340. Rios is a bit of a puzzle for sure. This season outside of homeruns was actually quite good, but when I watch him play and the good swing, I find myself thinking that this guy could hit around 25 or more homeruns. Maybe I’m way off I don’t know. Overbay I’m convinced was still not totally comfortable in terms of his hand and we started seeing the return of the power in the second half of the season. I think 18-22 homeruns is a reasonable expectation for him with an outstanding season maybe approaching 30. Lind for me is still adjusting to big league pitching but he appears to be developing into a legitimate major league hitter. Again 25-30 homeruns seems to be within reach for him. Snider looked impressive but lets not get ahead of ourselves as you (rightly) so often have pointed to Linds first Sept. stint in the majors did not parlay into next season being a successful one in terms of being an everyday player and meeting expectations. This kid is young and developmental hiccups are bound to happen. Who knows? Lets leave it at that for Snider. Rolen is troubling because of his shoulder history. I believe he has had two surgeries on the same shoulder(forgive me I can’t remember which one) and if a third is required, well lets just say its not good. I hope he can have a relatively healthy season next year. Expectations for him offensively are difficult to project because of the shoulder. I think if reasonably healthy 15 homeruns might be obtainable but again who knows?? Barajas looks as though he will be our starting catcher next season (I’m not crazy about that given his OBP of .294, yikes) and if given enough at bats might hit 12 to 15 homeruns. I’m not sure in terms of offense if theres much more to say about Barajas. Aaron Hill is a bit of a wild card right now. I hope he’ll be healthy and ready to go in spring training. In terms of offense I think if he can hit between .290-.300 with an obp of around .350 he may be our best option for a number 2 hitter in the lineup considering Cito doesn’t seem to want to use Overbay in either one of the top two spots. In terms of power I think 12-15 homeruns is a reasonable number for Hill in terms of projections.
I don’t know what lies ahead in the off-season in terms of moves (free agent acquisitions, trades) but overall I think that offense by committee is what will (or will not) get the job done. I’m pretty confident that for the most part the power is there throughout the lineup. Now of course with recent developments in terms of injuries to Marcum and the eventual leaving of Burnett the starting rotation is somewhat up in the air right now and thus could have the effect of making this currently constituted offense insufficient. I hope thats not the case but 2009 may be a step back in terms of wins. Thats ok for me because I realize one cannot controll for injuries. Right now 2009 seems a bit of a mystery in terms of overall team performance, but who knows for sure. They could surprise. I think I’ll look at the season of 2009 as building towards 2010. Thats my approach anyways. Just enjoy baseball and the continuing development of some of our young players and hopefully the return to form for some of our veterans in terms of the offense.
Its been a great year Mike and look forward to continuing the discourse with you and others online in the future. Thanks for providing the forum and take care this off season and try and get some rest. Now I really must get back to my thesis I’m supposed to be working on.
Take care Mike.
MW: You mean this wasn’t the thesis?
- TroyHoly crap, Wilner & Griffin together on the same show !!!
Great show. Too bad the both of you couldn’t do a weekly show during the baseball season.
MW: I wasn’t sure we loved up to expectations.
- LoboMike,
I’ve been looking closer at Cliff Lee versus Roy Halladay for CY Young and i’m not convinced that Lee deserves it..
Cliff has 2 more wins than Roy and granted he had 2 less starts but of his 31 starts this year only 7 of them will have come against playoff teams,if the White Sox get in (that number is 9 if Minnesota makes it)… Compare that to Roy, of his 33 starts this year 16 will be against playoff teams, if Chicago get in (15 if the Twins make it)..
Cliff started 16 times against teams that finished with 86 or more loses (more than half of his starts) versus Roy who only faced teams with 86+ loses 8 times..
Add to that Roy’s 9 complete games versus Cliff’s 4…
All other major pitching categories are pretty much a wash…
What do you think Mike, Who should win this award??
MW: As I said above, it’s close, and Halladay probably had the better year, but 22-3 will beat 20-11 every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
- Dapper DanHi Mike,
Where are the fans in CHichago??? Isn’t this supposed to be a playoff game??? It looks like 30-35 thousand at the most. What is happening???
MW: They were all wearing black, made it look like there were a lot of empty seats.
- WarrenHi Mike
Sorry I called you Norm earlier. I had a brain cramp. It took me almost 24 hours to realize my error.
MW: Did you mean Rumack, my brother or some other Norm?
- StanI wouldn’t say the Jays are a mediocre team but their record is somewhat skewered..Take away the 10 game winning streak and another big September and you have a team that is barely .500..I don’t believe for one second that this team is not as good as the 98′ Jays but you have to agree, winning is winning and making the playoffs was the goal for this team and they didn’t do it..They may not be mediocre but they are certainly underachievers..You can mull over which is worse..
Minnesota lost their best pitcher(Johan Santana) and one of their best all around players (Tori Hunter) and they still competed for the playoffs..They may even beat the White Sox and make the playoffs..They took their lumps for 9 seasons but they look great now..
If Riccardi had done what the twins did when he took over 7 seasons ago, we may be looking at a playoff team this year..
MW: This is the problem I have with that comparison, and I’ve said it a few times – the Twins won TWO more games than the Jays did this season. Not only that, but they were unable to beat the Jays in six tries. How are they a success and the Jays a mediocrity?
- gumpMike — a couple of comments:
Re Post #57 — “in terms of” appears at least 11 times in this “thesis” — I hope for his “real” thesis, he has an editor!
Re Post #62 — the Jays’ record was indeed “skewered” — by the hitters, especially in the one-run losses.
- NormHi Mike,
In response to question 60
I knew the game with the blackout was sold out, but the day b44 in an equally important game there were just 33000 fans on a monday night. Makes no sense to me
MW: It’s tough to sell out a weekday day game, especially with basically no notice.
- WarrenI am pointing out the Twins compete..They are playing meaningful baseball in September..The Jays haven’t competed for anything in 15 years..Spending money on free agents like Frank Thomas isn’t working..
The Twins are better then the Jays because they have a great system..They develop their prospects from the minors to play the game a certain way..They don’t rush them to the majors and they seem to have and endless supply of quality prospects..If they loose a player there is one just as good coming up..
The Twins have won 622 games since 2002..The Jays won 567..Minnesota has won more then 90 games 4 times over that span..The Jays haven’t done it once..They have done all of this on a budget much less then the bluebirds..Yes they only won 2 more games then the Jays this Season..But over the last several years they have shown to have a better record then Toronto..
The Jays went 4-5 against the Mariners this year..Does that make Seattle a better team?
MW: This is really funny, actually. Not once have you mentioned that the Twins play in the A.L. Central. They also, if you’ll remember, averaged 92 losses a season from 1996-2000 – under the same General Manager that led them to the vast majority of those 622 wins, which kind of helped them fill the farm system. 4-5, I dare say, is a lot better than 0-6.
- gumpYea a 4-5 record against a team that lost over 100 games is real impressive..Yes they had loosing seasons for almost 9 years..But so what? That was 8 years ago..How many players do they have on the team from 8 seasons ago? How many draft of picks from that era are on their roster right now? One guy..Justin Morneau was drafted in 99′..The AL central isn’t as bad as it used to be..The White Sox won the world series in 05′ and the Tigers made it to the finals in 06′..
MW: 4-5 record against a team that lost over 100 games (101) gets sarcasm, but 6-0 against the Twins isn’t worth anything?
- gumpHey I’m a fan..I’m allowed to be unreasonable..I’m pissed to be watching the playoffs again this year with no Jays!..Ok Ok the Twins didn’t beat the Jays but they should have..The Jays had some luck against the Twins..
The Jays beat the Twins 5-4 because of those 2 throwing errors by Punto and Tolbert in the 7th and that bonehead play in the 9th by Perdie that led to the tying run..I think Snider had the hit..Johnny Mac drove in Rolen to win the game..For whatever reasons the Jays have played well against the Twins..Not so against Cleveland..
MW: Pedrie? And sure you’re allowed to be unreasonable, but it goes against the first principle of commenting on this blog.
- gump