11:30 PM Eastern
The Jays will finally get a break from Paul Byrd now that the old-timey-looking righty is through with his third straight start against them. The Byrdman of HGHatraz won two of those starts, one each with the Indians and the Red Sox, and now the Jays won’t have to see him again until at least the middle of September, which is fine by me.
It’s weird, though. One expects that the more often a team sees a pitcher who is not a top-tier guy, the easier a time that team would have with him. That wasn’t the case with the Jays and Byrd, though the four runs they scored tonight would normally be enough to get them a win with a typical Jays pitching performance. Alex Rios and Lyle Overbay each went deep with a runner on.
Shaun Marcum, though, wasn’t up to the task, and his mini-meltdown in the 4th was what buried them. I’ve said a few times that in order for the Jays to make the playoff miracle happen, they’re going to have to win a large percentage of the games started by Halladay, Burnett and Marcum, because chances are they’re not going to win a large percentage of the games started by Litsch and Purcey. Tonight, Marcum lost the plate in that fateful fourth. After a Jason Bay lead-off single, Marcum issued a pair of walks, then got ahead of Alex Cora 0-1 but hit him with the next pitch to drive in a run. A single followed, then a run-scoring grounder and a sacrifice fly, and Marcum hit the showers.
The Jays’ best chance to come back was in the 7th, when three of the first four hitters reached base, but the one who didn’t was Joe Inglett, who happened to hit into a double play to throw a big wrench into the potential rally.
We got to see Jose Bautista make his Jays’ debut - he pinch-hit for Matt Stairs against Hideki Okajima in the 8th and grounded out to third. He wore Cecil Fielder’s old powder-blue number 23. Bautista will start tomorrow against lefty Jon Lester, and David Eckstein will likely go to the bench as the love affair with Marco Scutaro continues. I was surprised to see Kevin Mench still here when I got to the ballpark this afternoon, but he was saved from a 10-day trip to Central New York because Brad Wilkerson went on the disabled list with back spasms and a sore throwing arm to make room for Bautista.
It was a short edition of The JaysTalk tonight, but definitely an interesting one. I’ve gotten a lot of callers pretty riled up, and with good reason, over all my years of hosting the show, but for the life of me I don’t know what happened with tonight’s angry guy. I restated his point, and he went off. The line of the night went to the next caller, who wisely warned listeners not to drink and boat. Here’s the show, for your listening pleasure:
Remember, we have the pre-pre-game Saturday at noon Eastern for you on the Fan590 and on this very website. I’m going to try to talk to either Gene Tenace or Red Sox hitting coach Dave Magadan, of whom I was a big fan when he played for the Mets. The guy simply refused to get out, in a figurative sense, with that career OBP of .390.
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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Speaking of career OBP — look at John Olerud at .398. Remember the guy who Cito thought took too many pitches? He just may be the underrated player in Blue Jays history. I can’t believe they dump him for Robert Person. He was an OPS machine.
Now Cito is running the team again and batting Scutaro in #2 hole and encouraging Lind not to take walks.
MW: I thought Cito wanted Olerud to pull the ball more, hence the problem and the dump-off for Person (the Jays also threw $5 million into the deal).
- Jim BHey Mike,
I was hoping we were going to get a win tonight but Marcum struggled. The next two games are going to be tough ones since Lester and Matsuzaka are on the mound. Looks like the Red Sox got their revenge for our pounding of Josh Beckett a few games back.
I have two questions for you. Number one, do you know who the Jays traded to get Jose Bautista and two, I heard you say tonight that Furcal and Cabrera are the two big SS free agents but you forgot Renteria. I think Renteria would be a nice addition to the Jays, he has a career .290 batting average, has a career .970 fielding percentage, has not been injured for a long period of time and has won two gold gloves. Do we have enough money to sign him and would he come to Toronto? Hope the Jays win the next two series.
Thanks Mike for taking the time to read my post and keep up the great work you do on JaysTalk.
MW: I’m not big on Renteria either, just like Furcal and Cabrera. He’s easily the worst defender of the three, and it stands out that he’s had such little success in his only two years in the American League, relative to his hitting with the Marlins, Cardinals and Braves. The fact that he’s 33 and will likely be looking for at least a three-year contract doesn’t help either.
- KevinMike, any chance of a ss like Bobby Crosby coming to Toronto. I think it would be a great fit, the A’s are rebuilding, and JP loves to trade with Beane
MW: The Jays don’t need another player who can’t stay in the line-up.
- DanMike,
Any chance Cito makes the move to a 4 man rotation for the last 30 games giving us an extra game for Roy, AJ etc etc.
MW: Nope.
- CaryMichael of the Ballyard:
I’m actually being quasi-facetious in expressing my being bakedness. I mean, I am actually baked, but I’m not really proud of it — I’m just baked.
Yeah, I think that works…
Why didn’t you go to class very often? Were you subtly mocking people who spend all of University baked?
Baseball question du jour (kind of): do you remember offhand approximately what time in the show the agnry fella is?
I bet you prefer my baked comments to sober (or drunk) angry comments.
That dude who advised against drinking and boating didn’t think it was me, up at the cottage, right?
Again ignore 1 letter typos as I am baked in the dark.
MW: You should probably only comment sober from here on out. I didn’t go to class very often because I was busy with the radio and the athletics department and because I’m very lazy. The angry guy caller was one of the last three.
- JCLWhat I meant was actually: did you actually go to class regularly and were mocking people who are baked for all of University in saying you didn’t?
MW: Oh. The answer to that question is no. I had some very good friends in university who were very Shaggy-esque (the cartoon character, not the musician).
- JCLRegarding the Scutaro/MVP quote, here’s one link. I think it was in a Yahoo Sports article too.
http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseball/2008/08/21/pf-6522181.html
The blurb on Scoot is at the very bottom of the column, and reads thusly:
Hired last winter as a utility player, Marco Scutaro started his 102nd game last night. Among the current Blue Jays, only Rios (118) and Lyle Overbay (119) have started more games this year. Scutaro has started at six different positions for the Jays this year and has batted in six different slots in the batting order. In 382 at-bats before last night, he had 100 hits, four homers, 43 RBIs and scored 55 runs. “I think he’s been our MVP,” marvelled Ricciardi. “I don’t know where we’d be without him.”
***
Regarding importing a SS, there are several ideas but among those which occur to me is the repeated reports that the Padres are going to have to dump payroll. I wonder if the Jays could buy low on Khalil Greene to take advantage of that situation (something like Tallet + Scutaro+ prospect)?
Or, if one gets really ambitious, try to get Greene and Adrian Gonzalez together and then flip Overbay somewhere.
But Gonzalez is signed so reasonably I can’t believe he’d be easy to get.
***
Finally, anyone else notice that Adam Lind has essentially the same slugging precentage as Adam Dunn?
MW: I can’t believe J.P. actually said that. Sheesh. I think the Jays would need a bigger package than that to get Greene. Cool that Lind and Dunn are so close in slugging (Lind leads .530 to .527 going into Saturday), but just think how well the Jays could do next year if they had them both.
- WillRainMike, I have a question:
According to Ken Rosenthal, if Burnett does not stay with the Jays, the Orioles and the Nationals (two teams near Burnett’s hometown), as well as the two New York teams and St.Louis are potential suitors for Burnett (of course, I expect there would be more than these teams).
My question is, with the Washington Nationals failing to sign Aaron Crow (9th overall pick), will the compensation pick for Aaron Crow (which will be around 9th overall) in next year’s draft be protected? (when they sign, say, Burnett, do the Nats keep that pick?) If so, I guess the Nats will have 2 first-round picks protected?
Does that mean that the 15th worst team, picking 16th overall, won’t get their pick protected in FA signing?
MW: Excellent question, I’m going to have to ask someone about that.
- Jaybirdwhy do fans call roy halladay
roy holliday, it drives me
absolutely insane? Do you think Roy is a first ballot
Hall of Famer?
MW: Drives me nuts, too. First ballot Hall of Famer? Let’s wait 10 years until we can talk about that.
- lukespeaksOk, YOU’RE correct again. Not much of a proof reader am I! I read through my comment again and there are far too many commas - no I don’t speak that way. I must work on the comma placement.
Thanks, for taking the time to even answer that previous comment of mine on English Grammar etc. I’m sure with the Jays blowing game 1 to Boston, YOUR mood was not the greatest.
Thanks.
MW: I’m not in a bad mood when the Jays lose.
- Bob -Hey Mike I have a simple request for you if you get a chance to talk with either Gene Tenace or Dave Magadan. I would like you to ask whichever guy you interview what sort of influence he or they believe hitting coaches have on a players preformance at the plate. I’m not asking you to get into an argument if one or both guys say “Yeah we have alot to do with it!” but just give listeners a chance to hear an opinion right from the horses mouth. Also I just want you to know that I’m on the fence about the belief that hitting coaches do have an influence on the majority of a players preformance in a given game, but I do agree with you that callers judged Gary Denbo to harshly for the Jays hitting earlier this year.
MW: Hopefully you got to hear the Tenace interview Saturday at noon. If not, it’s probably in the hot audio section on the website.
- Matt from BCNot a game the Jays could afford to lose. At most they will pick up only a game on the Red Sox if they win the series.
I think Marcum looks tired. I realize he just came off the DL, however he does not seem to have the same consistent velocity on his hard stuff. When he does try to step it up, his control is not there due to too much “body english”. A little work on his arm strengthening, I feel is warranted during the off season.
Tough night for Wells at the plate - especially with risp late in the game. The Jays need him to be there during those times if they are to have any chance of getting to post season.
Oh well, “it aint over, till it’s over” as that great Yankee catcher once said.
Thanks
MW: It’s not like Wells is going to hit even .500 in those situations, nor should he be expected to, for the rest of the year. As for Marcum, you’re not the only one who saw it.
- Bob -Definitely an interesting JaysTalk? To quote you “All evidence to the contrary.”
J.C.
MW: You didn’t like it? Sorry to disappoint.
- jchenryWe’ve seen Paul Byrd more times than some of our immediate family members in the last little while. Thankfully, we won’t see him again until next month. What a relief!
Vernon Wells has had some half-***ed ABs of off-late. He has been swinging wildly at pitches that are a good 18 inches off the plate. Also swinging at dirt balls. He just doesn’t look that focused. Is it the case or I am exaggerating it a bit?
MW: He also barrelled the ball twice on Thursday night, absolutely hammering it right at a guy with a glove on his hand. You’re exaggerating a lot, but that’s just what people do when guys are 0-for-11.
- BeburgHey Mike, it is interesting that you mentioned the Jays 7th inning and Joe Inglett. He was ahead in the count 2-0 and swings at the next pitch. Brutal. You have to take that next pitch. Make the pitcher throw strikes. In a tight game and an important game, you have to be patient. Also on that point, I know Cito loves to give his pitchers some wiggle room, but again I stress, in a tight game and a in a pennant race, he should have known that Marcum didn’t have it early on, and pulled him earlier as oppose to giving up 4 runs, which essentially lost the game for them.
MW: You don’t have to take a 2-0 pitch in that situation at all. If it’s a strike, and you swing at it, it’d be productive if you hit it hard, which Inglett did. As for Marcum, when would you have taken him out? Maybe a couple of batters before, after he hit Cora, but at the time it was still a tie game with the 9th hitter coming up, and Marcum has been one of the Jays’ best pitchers this year.
- Jason DeneaulI have been following the Blue Jays for 32 years. I’ve seen a lot of things happen over those 32 years and I feel I can predict this team with high accuracy. The Marcum demotion leaves me stunned. Why? He must have p***ed somebody off or something. There’s only ten days left of the season down at AAA. He’d only get one start or two if he’s lucky. That’s hardly ample time to work on something. If he’s not returned by September 1st he’d be ineligible for the post season (not that I’m figuring they’ll be there). This is tough to swallow. It’s hard to believe that a guy who was leading the American League in ERA at the time of his injury is now a Syracuse Chief. They seem to have the pitchers on a short leash (win now or be demoted) but the hitters are never given this treatment and they have been the problem all year. I can only imagine the message Alex Rios would have been sent had he been sent to AAA for a week. I know you won’t agree with me, but I’m very surprised by all of this and fail to understand the rationale. Maybe more will come out about this soon.
MW: The only thing I can think of is that last night brought back all the control issues of the first three starts after he came off the D.L. and they think he needs to get straightened out in Syracuse. It doesn’t make any sense to me.
- Jim in OhioMike, if you think Eijah Dukes is a vile human being and somebody you don’t want on your team, then how come you wanted Barry Bonds because isn’t he a vile human being?
MW: Barry Bonds never threatened to kill a woman and his own child. Bonds is just a jerk, Dukes is in a whole other neighbourhood.
- andrewMike, who’s the girl that’s doing the PA?
MW: Her name is Kaci, part of the Junior Jays Saturday thing they do.
- andrewToday’s Ash’s Corner looks at his career firsts and the interesting flair for the dramatic which surrounded them.
He got into his first game on July 3rd, 1973, but only as a defensive replacement. Manager Ken Aspromonte put him in the starting lineup on July 4th. Ash decided he wasn’t going to wait until after the game for the Independence Day fireworks. In fact in his first career at bat in the 2nd inning against RH Mike Strahler of the Tigers, he got his first hit, RBI and run all in one memorable trip around the bases. George Hendrick was standing on second after a lead off double and with two out, Ashby stroked a single to RF to knock him in, took second on an error by Jim Northrup and came home on Leo Cardenas’ 2 out RBI single. “Nothing to this game” he must have thought to himself while sitting in the dugout before heading out to catch the bottom of the 2nd for the Indians’ Milt Wilcox, that day’s winning pitcher in a 5-2 win.
Fast forward to Game #162 on Sep. 29th, 1973. Ash had yet to collect an extra base hit on the season and of course his career. It wasn’t going to be an easy task though as the opposition was the 1st place Baltimore Orioles and LH Mike Cuellar, who they tell me was a pretty decent pitcher. He struck out in both of his first two AB and because he was batting ninth that day, didn’t get up again until the 8th. The offseason was fast approaching as the O’s led 7-0 at that point. Ash smoked a lead off double and scored on a John Ellis sac fly. So, he beat the deadline, but that wasn’t enough for Ash. He had another shot with two out in the top of the ninth. I guess he didn’t want to go into the offseason with a zero in the HR column because in what was definitely his last at bat of ‘73, barring a crazy 2 out rally, he cracked a two run HR off Cuellar to make it 7-3. A Ted Ford single and a Frank Duffy groundout confirmed that this would be the last plate appearance of his debut season.
April 26, 1975 yields Ash’s first nabbed base stealer. He’s given credit for one in 1973, but that was a pickoff by Indians’ pitcher Brent Strom, which Ashby never touched the ball on. Back to the ‘75 game, Paul Blair reached first for the Orioles on an error by Indian third baseman Ed Crosby. With Bobby Grich at the plate, Blair took off for second but Ash fired down to second baseman Jack Brohamer to remove a runner that shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
The first of Ashby’s 7 career stolen bases came on his first career attempt on May 4th, 1975. One of Ash’s favourite pitchers to hit against, Doyle Alexander was on the mound for the O’s (What’s with all these career firsts against the O’s anyway?) with Dave Duncan behind the plate that day. Frank Robinson was now the Indians manager. Did he want Ashby to steal 2nd off Alexander and Duncan? Nope. How about 3rd? Nope. Alan Ashby’s first career stolen base attempt and successful stolen base was a steal of home, all be it as part of a 2 out 4th inning double steal with John Lowenstein, but it goes down as a steal of home nonetheless. Lowenstein was at 1B and Ash at 3B, and Tommy McCraw at the plate, when the steal sign was given. What a gamble, but it paid off and was the third stolen base of the inning off Duncan and Alexander as Buddy Bell had stolen second earlier in the inning.
The only positive career first category remaining is of course the triple. Ash would hit 13 of them during his career, the first coming on Sep. 22nd, 1975 against, no not the O’s, the Milwaukee Brewers. Jerry Augustine started for the Brew Crew that day and Ash came to the plate with John Ellis at first and (what else is new?) two out in the bottom of the 2nd. He slammed a triple to CF scoring Ellis and putting the Tribe on top 1-0, in a game they went on to win 7-6.
Up next time, his postseason firsts and highlights, all of which of course came with the Houston Astros in the ’80’s. That’s it for today though,
- Tom the InternWhen Litsch began having success last year and I learned he used to be a batboy in the Tampa organization, I immediately thought of “Rudy”. You know - movie about a waterboy who made it to the big team. So I’ve always referred to him as Rudy.
Do you think we can get some momentum behind that nickname ?
MW: You can sure try.
- Ian CCan you confirm that the rotation sets up this way for the next week or so
Sunday BOS Burnett
Tuesday at TB Halladay
Wednesday at TB Purcey
Thursday at TB Litsch
Friday at NY Burnett
Saturady at NY Parrish (lefty in Yankee Stadium; could this be the reason they wanted Parrish up ?)
Sunday at NY Halladay
Still scratching my head over sending down Marcum; wonder if they’ll bring him back in time to be post-season eligible (likely not).
MW: You’re not the only one scratching your head. I can’t confirm that rotation at all, don’t know whether it’ll be Purcey or Parrish in Tampa Bay on Wednesday, and vice-versa for Saturday. Marcum will still be eligible for the post-season if the Jays make the playoffs, even though he can’t be called back up before September 1st unless somebody gets hurt. But since Dustin McGowan and Casey Janssen are both playoff-eligible and on the disabled list, the Jays will have wiggle room with their roster if the miracle happens.
- Mark from OttawaThe Marcum move strikes me as a way to rest the guy without losing him a full 15 days to the DL. I don’t think it’s anything much more complicated than that.
MW: I don’t think that’s it at all.
- DougHey Mike,
It is good to finally to be able to catch up with your blog again.
Regarding your answer on post 17:
“MW: Barry Bonds never threatened to kill a woman and his own child. Bonds is just a jerk, Dukes is in a whole other neighbourhood.”
You couldn’t be more right. Dukes has a lengthy record of CRIMINAL ACTS including barging into an elementary school and threatening his girlfriend. Once escorted out he texted her a picture of his gun with the words “you dead dawg.”. People need to understand the difference of an ornery star like Bonds, who may not be nice to the media, and a legitimate thug like Dukes. One may be bad for the clubhouse, while the other is legitimately bad for the city in which he plays. I would be greatly troubled if JP brought in a player like Dukes as his troubled history would be setting a terrible example of the kind of human beings we want with the Jays.
MW: Well said.
- Dave JDid they announce the Marcum news in the game? Because I Googled and couldn’t find it in news yet. He did look awfully shaky yesterday, but I can’t think it’s anything other than spotting something seriously wrong with his mechanics/headspace and sending him down to work on that. He’s been iffy since he got back from the DL, so maybe he’s better off down there right now. This season is important, but he’s going to be important for many seasons to come. Whatever’s wrong with him shouldn’t be allowed to fester.
And nice to see another Big Win against the Sox! We’re going good right now. I hope it lasts.
MW: I actually announced the Marcum news at about 12:25 pm on the pre-pre-game show, the official word came down about half an hour later.
- reyesMW: I thought Cito wanted Olerud to pull the ball more, hence the problem and the dump-off for Person (the Jays also threw $5 million into the deal).
One of the dumber moves in the history of the franchise.
MW: Indeed.
- Jim BThere may be something to Marcum’s mechanics being off and him needing time to sort them out. Warning, links incoming!
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/index.php?s_type=2&sp_type=1&batterX=0&inning1=y&inning2=y&inning3=y&inning4=y&inning5=y&inning6=y&inning7=y&inning8=y&inning9=y&month=06&day=11&game=gid_2008_06_11_seamlb_tormlb_1%2F&year=2008&pitchSel=451788.xml&prevGame=gid_2008_06_11_seamlb_tormlb_1%2F
Assuming this link works correctly, this is Marcum’s 9 strikeout performance against the Seattle Mariners from back in June.
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/index.php?s_type=2&sp_type=1&batterX=0&inning1=y&inning2=y&inning3=y&inning4=y&inning5=y&inning6=y&inning7=y&inning8=y&inning9=y&month=08&day=06&game=gid_2008_08_06_oakmlb_tormlb_1%2F&year=2008&pitchSel=451788.xml&prevGame=gid_2008_08_06_oakmlb_tormlb_1%2F
This is his decent game against Oakland a couple weeks ago
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/index.php?s_type=2&sp_type=1&batterX=0&inning1=y&inning2=y&inning3=y&inning4=y&inning5=y&inning6=y&inning7=y&inning8=y&inning9=y&month=08&day=22&game=gid_2008_08_22_bosmlb_tormlb_1%2F&year=2008&pitchSel=451788.xml&prevGame=gid_2008_08_22_bosmlb_tormlb_1%2F
And this is last night’s start.
According to the pitchf/x data, his pitches are straightening out and he’s leaving stuff up a lot more.
This is obviously something that you don’t need a bunch of fancy charts to know, but it helps to see it like this for myself at least.
- DougSeeing Tony Fernandez in town recently reminded me of what I see as a gross injustice. I would appreciate your opinion. I think the guy belongs in Cooperstown and yet he did not get enough votes in his first year to stay on the ballot. I compare him to Ozzie Smith, a first ballot Hall of Famer. Fernandez the better offensive player, by far and his lifetime fielding average (not the only measure, I know) is actually better than Smith’s.
One guy an outstanding player and showman, an American darling and the other a shy Latino. What do you think, Mike?
I like your work, even when you are less right.
J.C.
MW: I don’t think Tony Fernandez is a Hall of Famer. Wonderful player, very good hitter, but not Hall of Fame quality at the plate (lifetime OPS+ of 101) and not the defender that Ozzie was.
- jchenryMike can you clarify ? back in the day, only those on the 25 man major league roster on August 31st were eligible for post season roster. Has this changed to being able to name your 25 man roster from players on your 40 man roster as of August 31st?
Also, the Rays don’t seem to want to fade here (4 runs in the 8th to take the late lead in Chicago); if they hold on 5 1/2 games is not an insignificant amount, especially with how well that team pitches (maybe better than the Jays)
MW: Never would I have thought that the Rays would ever want to fade, but the longer they keep this up, the more impressive they are becoming, obviously. As for the playoff thing, it’s always been that only those on the 25-man roster on August 31st are eligible for the playoffs, but players on the disabled list can be replaced by anyone who is on the 40-man roster (I think, it might even be anyone in the organization) on August 31st. If the Blue Jays make the playoffs, they’ll do so with at least Janssen and McGowan on the disabled list.
- Mark from Ottawa@ Ian C,
I like the nickname “Rudy” given the rapid ascent from batboy to big league pitcher, although I think given the red hair, you might be looking at “Rusty” for a nickname. Interesting “connection” between the two: “Rudy” was the story of a kid whose dream was to play football at Notre Dame. Rusty Lisch (alas no “t” in the surname) was a QB who played 5 nondescript seasons in the NFL, but played his College Football at Notre Dame. He started the first 3 games of 1977 in his 3rd year there before some kid named Joe Montana came along and sent him to the bench. He finally got to be the starter in 1979 as a 5th year senior after Mr. Montana graduated and went on to bigger and better things in the NFL. “Rusty” is such a cliche nickname for a redhead though. Let’s go with “Rudy”. Cheers,
- Tom the Intern