5:25 PM Eastern
For one of a very rare occasions, I envied those of you who were watching this game on television or listening on the radio. I envied you because you could turn it off.
After the ugly offensive display of last night, there was every reason to expect that Roy Halladay’s mere presence would be enough to lift the Jays back into their winning ways and give them their 5th victory in six games. Unfortunately for the Jays, it’s wasn’t just Halladay’s mere presence, because he brought his fielders with him, and errors by Alex Rios and John McDonald (!) led to three unearned runs in a game the Jays lost by two.
Rios dropped a Shin-Soo Choo fly ball on the warning track in left-centre leading off the 4th. He had to go a long way to get to the ball, but he got to it and it was in his glove - until it popped out.
McDonald got a little too ambitious on a Choo grounder with a runner on first in the 6th. It was a slow chopper that had to be charged, and with Choo being played to pull, Joe Inglett couldn’t get to second that quickly. McDonald should have thrown to first to get one sure out, but thought he could make the play at second and his throw was too high for Inglett to snare while also keeping his foot on the bag.
The defense let Halladay down quite a bit, but the offense let him down even more. The Jays fell back into their old pattern of making mediocre pitchers look like world-beaters. Paul Byrd carried his .288 opponents’ batting average and 4.72 ERA into the game and retired 20 of 21 hitters at one point, sucking all the life out of the building.
Joe Inglett was the only Jays’ hitter worth mentioning from a positive standpoint, with a single, double and triple for half of his team’s hits. Needing a home run for the cycle, he grounded out to second in the 8th inning.
Lyle Overbay would have been worth mentioning in a positive light, since he picked up two hits, but he made a massive error in judgement on his drive off the left-field wall with two out and nobody on in the bottom of the 9th. As soon as the ball left his bat, you had to be thinking double, because that’s what a hitter normally gets on a ball off the wall. But Overbay hit the ball really hard, and Ben Francisco has a good throwing arm. Francisco played it perfectly and Overbay was sheer, unadulterated meatcake at second base. As soon as he rounded first, with the play right in front of him, the only thing that went through my head was “oh, crap.”
In that situation, down by two with nobody on, it doesn’t matter whether Overbay is at first or second, and chances are they let him take second later on on indifference anyway. There was nothing to be gained by trying to get to second there, and what was lost was the opportunity for Matt Stairs to come to the plate as the tying run.
I can’t go without a quick comment about Alex Rios. He is now 0-for-his-last-10 and 1-for-15 after taking the collar again this afternoon. What really bothered me, though, was the fact that he barely got out of the batters’ box on his pop-up in the 3rd inning. It was a fair ball, though an easy pop-up, but it could have been dropped. I’m not saying he should sprint around the bases or anything, but if Ryan Garko had dropped that pop, he still would have been able to get Rios at first, because Rios didn’t even get a third of the way down the line. This isn’t the first time, and one hopes that with the new regime in place, they’ll be able to get a stern message across to Rios about his at-the-very-least occasional lack of effort, but for now their hands are tied. It’s not like they could put Joe Inglett or Brad Wilkerson out in centrefield tomorrow with Cliff Lee on the mound, nor should they. They have their best chance to win with Rios in there. Still, I wouldn’t mind seeing him hitting 7th. There’s a fine line between sending a message and embarrassing a player, and you certainly don’t want to embarrass Rios to the point that you lose him forever, but it’s clear that any messages that have been sent so far haven’t yet sunk in.
Here’s today’s edition of The JaysTalk for your listening pleasure:
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome.
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Mike
I am with you on Rios. Cito needs to send him a message and drop him lower in the batting order, even benching him for a game or two. Rios have a lot of potential, you can see it, he has that natural ability, just like Gruber, but seemed to take it for granted.
Question - when a batter sacrifice fly or a bunt, does that go againts his batting average?
MW: Like Gruber? The answer to your question is no.
- francisMike
On Overbay, on the Jay’s website, there was an article on him. he is still suffering from his injuries from last year. Overbay never made that widely known to the fans, he comes from the same school as Wells, when he was hurt last season. I admire that quality in a person, you are paid well, therefore must perform, no excuses. However, fans are hard on them as a result and they take it. I am sure that is the same reason Rolen is not hitting at all this season. He is late on his swing and no power. srill, he did not want to get on the microphone and announce he is only performing at 60% or 70%.
I like this team, hope it gets healthy. Do you think they have a chance signing Thome, Giambi or Texiara? I would even settle for Ibanez
MW: The fact that a player is at 60% or 70% is admirable, but if it’s affecting performance to the level of Rolen’s, the team would be better off with someone else in the line-up. I do think they have a chance of signing Thome, Giambi or Manny, but not likely Teixeira.
- francisMike,
The only thing worse than not being able to turn off the TV was having paid over 100 dollars to watch the game live.
Still, Doc amazes me … how he was able to bear down with runners on base. Jays did sting the ball rather well, darn pesky Indians and their good positioning.
PS - I picked up the Jays Official Guide for 2008 … is there any way that you could make that mandatory reading for callers to JaysTalk?
PPS - I hope the ‘dump JP’ rants don’t come to fruition … be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
Cheers,
- EdEd in Scarborough.
Down 4-2 in the 8th, any idea why Gaston didn’t pinch-hit Eckstein for McDonald? Is there any rationale that would be reasonable?
As for Rios, he is certainly Mr. Mercurial, isn’t he? While one shouldn’t presume what is going on in someone else’s head, he sure *seems* to suffer from more mental lapses than the average bear.
And Overbay’s lack of judgement, yikes! Shouldn’t the first base coach be tackling Overbay to the ground as he rounds first?
MW: The only reason not to pinch-hit for McDonald there is that Cito could be thinking that if Mac is going to be his everyday shortstop, he’s going to have to hit in situations like that. Sal Fasano told me today that he thinks that Rios’ lapses are out of frustration with himself. Interesting theory - it doesn’t excuse the behaviour, but at least it’s better than him just being lazy. And yeah, that wouldn’t have been a bad move by Dwayne Murphy, but I don’t think that’s allowed.
- Chuck VByrd just outpitched Doc! I hear your points which are valid but Byrd was good today. A CG with 90-odd pitches is a dominating outing.
MW: I don’t know if it was more Byrd or the hitters he was facing.
- Beburg aka The 88mph manTo all those people with their glass still half-full,
Pack it up fellas. You will get swept at home by none other than the pathetic Indians. This thing is over. Cliff Lee will put the final nail in the coffin tomorrow.
- Beburg aka The 88mph manI swore I’d leave Rios alone for a while but I can’t. He doesn’t run out ground balls, but he never has, and although that’s irritating, it’s not the real problem here. The real problem, in my opinion, is that his numbers are down offensively; his defense–while generally excellent–is not the wonder that it has been; and he occasionally appears to be daydreaming. It could be that he’s just having a bad year, but I worry that he’s establishing a pattern of behaviour that’s going to be hard to break. I’ve come across comments here on the blog that suggest to me you believe Rios may be obstinate, and unheeding of his coaches. I might be wrong in this, but if that is a problem, then maybe it would be better for him to take his 5 tools somewhere else not in the AL. He’s not having a great year, but no one is, it’s a year where offense is down all over the leagues, and his speed and defense are well-known. Perhaps we could package him and Ryan, and get something really helpful in return.
I’ve suggested this before and you’ve always pooh-poohed it. But I believe that the time for tinkering is over. We need to do something courageous. And Rios might well give us a reasonable return on our investment.
MW: If the return is massive, sure. I have never said that he’s obstinate or unco-operative.
- reyesHey Mike,
I just have a few things to ask about Travis Snider.
1. What is his defensive value? I’ve read some articles that rate his defense as atrocious, and some they say hes decent with a cannon arm. If hes on the team in 09 do you see him as the LF or DH?
2. If the team does go out and sign a big bat DH like most project them to at least attempt and do, what does that do to Snider, because it will ineveitably block him. What if he starts destroying AAA or looks amazing in spring training? I doubt the team calls him up to ride the pine.
3. I agree with your opinoin on Lyle Overbay that as long as you produce you’re doing your job, be it getting on base or hitting for power no matter the position, however if Snider does look amazing next year would the club consider convereting Snider/Lind to 1B and trading Lyle, kind of how he came here when Fielder broke through.
MW: 1 - I have never seen him play the field. 2 - I wouldn’t have a problem with Snider spending all of 2009 in Syracuse if the Jays sign one of Ramirez/Thome/Giambi. He’ll only be 21 years old. 3 - Maybe, but maybe they can get a lot more back for one of Lind, Rios and Snider.
- CoreyMan what a great trade the Jays made for Rolen? Hmmm wasn’t it a power bat we need? Oh yeah, so lets trade Glaus for a guy that can’t hit an 85 MPH fast ball! Simply Brilliant! Overbay finally gets an extra basehit oh no he didn’t he runs into an out! Again I hate to be right but Overbay and Rolen are done, and we have them for more years! Any takes out there we;ll trade them both for 2 bucks and a road map! “Rover” not very good are they!
- tonyMMHi Mike,
Wow, 39,623 show up to watch two Quad-A teams plus Halliday and Grady Sizemore. If I am The Doctor or AJ I am looking at the Blue Jays lineup today and saying “get me out of here”.
I am so happy to see that the Jays are actively planning for next year, if not September. By that I mean that Travis Snider was moved to AAA a day or two ago, Brett Cecil last week and Brian Cooper to High A (maybe AA). At least this gives some hope for the future because there ain’t any with what we got now, even with Vernon Wells in the lineup.
How do think they will use Snider when he comes up? Does he go to left field and Lind to DH or vice versa?
One last thought, I hope the fans and media especially don’t give AJ the Matts Sundin treatment when, like Matts, he exercises his right to leave. Unfortunately it hasn’t worked out because of other bad decisions, but the decision to bring AJ to Toronto was a good one. I hope he stays but I know that is unrealistic.
A second final thought, please not Thome or Giambi … what did we learn from Frank Thomas about signing aging players (I know Giambi is having a bounceback year … just like FT).
Ron
MW: I’d be happy to take Giambi or Thome if they put up the numbers that Thomas did last year. It’s David Cooper, by the way. Brian Cooper was the reliever the Jays got for Brad Fullmer lo those many years ago.
- Ron MoreauHey Mike,
I have a stats related question for you. How do you and/or other broadcasters choose what stats you use when discussing a teams or players recent fortunes? When it is a three or four game streak the answer to my question is obvious. Having said that sometimes I hear something along the lines of, “they have won 5 of their last 7,” or “in his last 18 at bats Overbay is hitting….” Why not Overbay`s last 19 at bats and/or “they have won 5 of their last 8,” It just seems very arbitrary to me. TSN`s standings board gives us the record in the last 10 games, which makes sense as it is a nice round numbers. Why deviate from this? Are there unspoken rules?
My guess is that the statisticians and broadcasters do a little digging to find numbers that sound more exciting in order to make things spicier during the show. Is that fair? If so would that not mean that the stats being given to us during a broadcast are not always the best reflections of what a team/player has been doing recently?
Like you I also think writing properly is important. In my first paragraph should I have written “team” rather than “teams.” If I end the sentence with “team(s) recent fortunes…” the “s” stays, but since it is followed by “players” I do not know. Anyway I do not require an explanation, but a yes or no would be appreciated.
Best Wishes,
Carson
MW: In your first sentence, you said “a”, meaning one, so you should have written “team’s” and “player’s”. Sometimes there are arbitrary points at which you stop, but sometimes the most recent is more meaningful. If a team is 5-5 in its last 10, but has won 5 of 7, then I’d be more likely to point out the latter. A player could be hitting .300 over his last 30 at-bats but have one hit in his last 12 times up. To me, the 1-for-12 is more reflective of what’s going on right now.
- CarsonHow’s the Glaus for Rolen deal looking? OUCH. If the two are health..rolen is the better player by far..unfortunately..it would appear rolen will never be truly healthy again…and thats a HUGE problem.
as for Rios..good luck “sending a message” to a guy that was inked to 6/64 mill guaranteed. not sure a guy with his makeup is the type of dude you wanna be doling out that kind of lettuce to. a manager can only light so big a fire underneath someone like that. on the other hand..im glad hill got his money when he did. he seems like a good kid and now even if he (god forbid) never plays another game.he’s set for life.
- sammy jalazaiWhat a terrible game to lose. I’ve noticed over the past season that a few managers have benched their players for lack of hustle, and the message has seemed to get through. Why doesn’t Cito follow suit? I’ve seen numerous ground balls and pop-ups that haven’t been run out. These guys get payed so much to play the game, don’t you think the least they can do is run out a ground ball? The harder they run, the quicker the infielder has to get out the ball and the higher chance of making a mistake.
MW: It’s “paid”, by the way. I don’t understand why guys don’t run out routine ground balls. It doesn’t seem that much to ask for a guy to do four 90-foot sprints in three hours.
- RichardAfter four years I have yet to be highly impressed by Alex Rios. His arm and speed are above average but neither has distinguished him tremendously. He has not known the strike zone well in his big-league career. Too many strikeouts, too few walks. Some power, yes, but averaging 13 HRs/year in 4 years would have been more impressive in the 1960s than it is today.
Nobody would accuse him of being baseball-savvy because he falls asleep on the bases too much, and in the field. He has shaky hands, as seen today. I don’t think he is very good at going back on fly balls over his head, he appears lost sometimes when he needs to get back to the fence, and he has not improved significantly at either since arriving in 2004. Slumping badly in the same year you get your first big contract is a good way to make fans and the GM mighty disappointed with you.
Remember some of the others who have played RF recently? Barfield, Carter, Green, Mondesi? The Blue Jays have often been much stronger in RF in the past than they are now. There is lots of room for improvement from Alex Rios.
Overbay’s boner in the 9th was not a big-league play. Someone remind him that two-out singles in the 9th have a curious way of parlaying into runs.
MW: You would have said none of these things a year ago.
- NazzerHi Mike.. Cito needs to put Alex over his knee and just give him a old fashion spankin’ with his lack of attention.. There is at least 4 or 5 times this year that Alex wants to fly his toy helicopter ,DURING THE PLAY and forgets what he has to do next.. I know the staff has talked to him about his lack-luster ways but he has to listen.. Maybe he reads your awesome blog like everybody else and will take note.. Hey Mike , when there is a man on third with less then 2 out and you want to get that runner in any way you can, and the hitter rips a rope in the gap but the fielder makes a high-lite reel catch.. Is this considered a sac-fly when the runner scores after tagging up or is this a scorers decision because the hitter might have fully intended to drive him in via a hit.. I heard that roughly 80 per-cent of the time a lead-off walk leads to at least one run.. I know this is not a stat that you can pull up on the magical box , but over the years there is an agreement on a ball-park percentage and from my thinking 80 is to high .. What have you heard? Thanks Mike..
MW: I don’t think he thinks about his toy helicopter, but I definitely think he takes his at-bats into the field with him, and maybe vice-versa. Any fly out that scores a run is considered a sacrifice fly, the batter is always trying to get a hit. I think the leadoff walk thing is closer to 70%.
- FLIPPERMike,
That was tough calling Scoot, the Captain and Inglett below-average ball players.
MW: Tough? It’s true. It’s all relative, of course.
- FrankHi Mike,
Why will AJ opt out the end of this season? Also, who do you think the jays should trade in the off seasona and for who? Thx for answering.
MW: Yes, he will. And they should trade anyone who will get them a return that makes the team better.
- MikeyHi Mike,
Which free agents should the Jays sign in the off season?
MW: Asked and answered, many times.
- MikeyHi Mike,
I love to listen to you on the Jays Talk. You’re awesome. I’ve gotten compliments from people that i would make a good sports broadcaster. I wanted to ask some advice from you on how to get the job? Also, how much do you get paid?
MW: Why did you change your name on this comment from the last two?
- GenooOne of the things you mention a lot is Thome as a potential DH, but you may not be aware that the White Sox hold a $13 mil option on him for next season and i believe it was reported that the Griffey deal involved a split of the buy-out implying he’ll be gone next year.
I’m inclined to think the Sox will bring him back.
As for Ramirez, the rumor going around is that he wants to play for the Yanks in order to stick it to Boston. Not to pick up on every bit of gossip but, assuming the Yanks have other priorities (they should) and looking at the teams with money to pay him and a place for him, I’m thinking that if it comes down to the Jays and, for instance, the Mets - wanting a chance to pound the Red Sox is an enticing tie-breaker in our favor, right?
MW: If he thinks that the Jays are capable of pounding the Red Sox, then yes. The Yankees may have other priorities, but they also have a near-endless supply of money and a burning desire to stick it to the Red Sox. I think that if Manny wants to go there, the Yanks will make room. As for Thome, it turns out that he only needs another 138 plate appearances to vest that 2009 option, so I’m now thinking he won’t be available at all.
- WillRainMike, I think that the Jays should put in Eckstein more and I hope that the Jays can torn this around soon. I think that if they can play the way they did against Oakland then they will play better.
MW: I believe that if they can play the way they played against Oakland, they’ll be fine. But remember, Oakland is playing really, really badly right now.
- DaveTypical Blue Jays. Finally crawl to within a chance and then ALWAYS choke against teams like Cleveland. With Halladay on the mound again, too. Pathetic. McDonald it’s been fun…see ya, Rios..well Rios I reserve my right to laugh.
- Vito From HamiltonOn a scale of 1 to 10 what are the chances of trading Ryan and signing K-Rod after this season? 1 being very unlikely and 10 being highly likely.
MW: Of both things happening? 0.8.
- Beburg aka The 88mph manOver/Under: 5 years until Jays make playoffs
MW: Under.
- JoshIt’s ironic you’d mention Rios lack of hustle because in the Wednesday game between the Indians and Rays, Ryan Garko of the Indians was batting early in the game and hit a roller foul down the first baseline. Garko never left the batter’s box and the ball kicked back in to fair territory where the firstbaseman made the easy putout. Indian manager Eric Wedge was livid. He took Garko out of the game immediately and benched him for Friday’s game. That’s why the Indians had to play Sal Fasano at first base on Wednesday. Cito isn’t one to show up his players, but a similar message needs to be sent.
MW: As I said in the post, sitting Rios wasn’t an option for Sunday’s game, but some sort of message does need to be sent.
- Jim in OhioMike,
I had to write to you after your several Eric Carmen references. I am a Toronto native living on the East side of Cleveland and I listen to you all the time on the internet.
Eric Carmen is a native of the Cleveland area and he actually lives 15 minutes from me in a city called Gates Mills, Ohio which is a very wealthy suburb of Cleveland. I drive by his mansion on a regular basis. He actually made news a year or so ago by getting a little tipsy behind the wheel of his BMW and taking out a few mailboxes.
Anyway, long before he started putting out crap like “Hungry Eyes” and “Make Me Lose Control”, Eric actually was a rocker. In the early ’70’s, he was the leader of a band called the Raspberries. They had one huge hit called, “Go All the Way”, which I am sure you would recognize if you heard it. However, they have at least a dozen other songs that are just as good. If you are a fan of classic rock, I STRONGLY urge you to check them out. They were a truly amazing band and I love everything they did. They did a few ballads, but I would compare them to the Eagles and the Who. Yes, they were that good.
Here is a link to an album I recommend that is on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Raspberries/dp/B00067FOZS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1218351803&sr=1-4
Or, if you like to get your music for free (and who doesn’t) you can find their music on any of the torrent sites like Mininova and Demonoid.
- KeithTroy Glaus now has 21 homers.
10 more than any Blue Jay.
Just thought you would like to know.
- TomHey Mike. I’m losing patence with this sulking attitude that Rios is displaying! Its that kind of attitude that makes it harder to feel sympathy for a player on a cold spell. Some managers would not have any of this pre madonna crap! I’m going to assume that Cito has told him to smarten up, but if I see it again than I have a problem with Cito not being able to control players who are so full of themselfs that they believe they dont have to put forward a decent effort on the field. This was probably my biggest problem with Hinske when he played for Toronto.
MW: What does the time before 1983 have to do with anything?
- Matt from BCYip, a real stinker for sure. However, every team has one now and again. When the Jays have one, of late, it just stands out more, due to the poor hitting this season (risp).
Speaking of stinkers, Rios, has been a hot topic for me this season and his actions/concentration (or lack of) are showing more and more. His head, is no way in the game, for whatever reason. I once thought, perhaps, it was awaiting the birth of his 1st born - don’t think so now. That “pop-up” and his total lack of effort to run it out was a page from Mannys’ book. The dropped ball was caused by a “look what I found”!
Your correct Mike, as to the fine line of not wanting to embarrass a player. However, when the player goes out there and embarrasses his manager, you have to do something. A lack of effort, by a player, is insulting to his manager. Cito, has a lot of respect for players, who work hard and will give some slack now and then - but don’t push him too far!
Heck, I was embarrassed, as a fan of the game watching that spectacle.
You JP vultures, out there, who want to see a round table battle with JP and McCowan. Forget it! Even if JP did go on the show, McCowan would not go after him like you think (hope) he would. Every time, he has had the little president of the NHL on his show we expect to hear him get real tough on him - he never does. Maybe, it’s respect, maybe it’s just talking a big game before the event, just to get ratings up. Whatever it is, the expectations, never meet the actual event.
What’s that now, 1.5 runs/loss of support for Doc. Pitiful. Lucky for Jays fans, Doc is a patient man.
Thanks.
MW: The dropped ball was caused by a “look what I found”?
- Bob -how are the jays doing attendence wise. I saw the attendence at yesterday’s
game was 39,000+. hope to
see more attending, cus baseball
is by far the best sport in Toronto (my opinion of course).
MW: The Jays are currently 7th in the American League in average home attendance with 28,064 going into Sunday’s game, and they still have six home games left against each of the Yankees and Red Sox.
- lukespeaksI am wondering where are Dice-K critics now? Where are those people who said he’s “overrated”? The media, particularly in U.S, was all over him last year when he performed fairly well for a rookie in MLB. Now that he’s a Cy Young candidate, nobody even mentions his name. What a bunch of hypocrites!
But again, if a legend like Ichiro doesn’t get enough credit then who’s Dice-K to complain. Discrimination still exists folks!
MW: It has nothing to do with discrimination. There couldn’t have been more hype and excitement about Matsuzaka when he came over, and there was no way he was going to live up to those expectations. As for his Cy Young candidacy, he’s not in the top 10 in the A.L. in any of ERA, IP, K, opponents’ batting average or fewest walks per nine innings.
- Beburg aka The 88mph manBlue Jays problem is their trades are always about sending their problem to another team for thats team problem. And they’re hoping that the problem they inherit will somehow turn things around in Hogtown. Which is rarley the case. ie Scott Rolen. Until they can trade for sure things, not hope, they are going no where.
And 39,000 for that game today? Is Stevie Wonder counting the crowds?
MW: Can you give me another Jays trade that was “my problem for you problem” in the last seven years? And attendance is tickets sold, whether or not the people show up.
- Rick GRaceHi Mike
- roy hughesThanks for your comments on Overbay’s gaffe in the 9th — that’s no way to end a ballgame. I had been preparing a diatribe but you said it all.
Mike it is time to stop saying that this team is underperforming.They are simply not good enough.They are on pace to hit less than 20 home runs at 1st and 3rd base combined.Average at these positions is 260.Pathetic.I have been a long time fan of JP but it is time to move on.This team has spent a ton of money on guys who cannot hit.Wells is a good player but not a $126 million player.Rios is lazy and appears sometimes to not know how many outs there are.Overbay may have a high OBP but this is not enough to justify his other poor numbers.Wilkerson is an automatic out and where is the evidence that Mench “kills” left handed pitching.It is time to try and trade Wells get some return and free up some money.Rios could also be gone although I am now not sure what return we would get.Time to rethink this team.Enough is enough.George
- George CunninghamI have been wondering what is wrong with Rios all year.His head is just not in it and he sometimes does not hustle either.This can sometimes be a sign of substance abuse.I hope I am wrong because I am not aware of anything else that would point in that direction.Maybe it is just the big contract he signed.What do you think Mike?
MW: I think that you need a lot more proof than just a feeling to accuse someone of being a drug addict in a public forum. That’s extraordinarily irresponsible of you.
- Paul McCreathHow many season ticket holders will share MW’s wide eyed optimism about the ‘09 Blue Jays by voting with their wallets to renew?
- jchenryIf the Jays catch fire and Wilner the only guy left watching, will it still count in the standings?
This team will have a new GM and at least 4 new position players next year. Let’s hope the fans buy in. I want my grandsons to see MLB in Toronto!
J.C.
Just as a change of pace here for those of us who will be watching as much Team Canada baseball as Jays Baseball.
Mike, do you think Team Canada or even Team USA has much of a shot at this? I mean both teams are using veterans who no longer play MLB or players who have yet to make the show. (Mostly AA or AAA). How do these players compare to those of say Cuba or Japan? I mean don’t those teams use their type of MLBer?
MW: Some of the best Japanese players are here, playing in the majors. I don’t know if Japan has shut down its major leagues for Beijing, but Cuba will send their best.
- AlexHi Mike,
I have a couple of questions:
1. When was the last time no Blue Jay player reached 20 home runs in a season?
2. If the Blue Jays had a pitcher who could swing the bat well, could the DH hit for another position player, say John Macdonald instead?
Thanks Mike
MW: 1 - 1981, and the last time it happened in a non-strike season was 1977. 2 - No.
- ChrisMike,
Rather than whining, bitching, kvetching and blaming Rios, Overbay, Zaun, Burnett, Gibbons, Ricciardi, the Bat Boy, Ace and of course Josh Towers I have decided my posts will take a different tack for the rest of the 2008 season. Believe me, I am not discounting the pain that we are all feeling at a season that absolutely defies explanation.
I have decided to take my passion/frustration and pour it into a creative little project which will highlight the on field exploits of your esteemed broadcast colleague Alan Dean Ashby (who shall heretofore be known simply as “Ash”) from 1973-1989. I will call it “Ash’s Corner” (Not to be confused of course with previous General Manager Gord Ash) and it will be more extensive for home games and a lot less so for road games and off-days. It will serve to demonstrate the awesome research power of this thingy we call the interweb, particularly baseball-reference.com and retrosheet.org, as well as the fabulousity of our favourite game. Above all it will show that despite the fact that Ash is not a Hall of Famer as a player, he still had a very interesting career, regardless of how much he enjoys humourously downplaying it.
Ok, let’s kick off Ash’s Corner with the vitals. Ash was born July 8, 1951 in Long Beach, California. He played his first game on July 3, 1973 when he replaced John Ellis in the ninth inning. His final game was May 9, 1989, when he pinch hit for shoo-in Hall of Famer Craig Biggio. Who says he didn’t go out on top? He was a switch hitter for the most part although he allegedly tried hitting exclusively left handed in 1975 and 1979 and parts of 1977 and 1978. He was 6′2″ and 185 lbs according to retrosheet (baseball-reference lists him at 190, so we’ll go with retrosheet on this one ;)). He also had 2 ejections as a player: one in 1976 and one in 1980.
The best August 10th in Ash’s career occurred in 1982 in a 4-1 win at San Diego. He went 3/4 on the day with singles off rookie Tim Lollar in the 2nd and Floyd Chiffer in the 7th and a 9th inning insurance solo HR off Luis De Leon. Lollar got him on strikes in his only other AB in the 5th. Phil “Scrap-Iron” Garner was the Astros’ hero on this day with a 2 out 3 run shot off Lollar in the sixth.
That’s all for today. During road games and off-days Ash’s Corner will be reduced to the best month x/day y of Ash’s career and we’ll get into the more interesting stuff during the home games. I’m sure Ash is hoping for a great year from the Jays in 2009, so this project can be mothballed then. ;)
That is all,
- Tom the InternMike buddy,
Couple things bothered me about Saturday’s game (besides the obvious)
1 - Not pinch hitting for Johnny Mac to start of the 8th?
2 - Halladay being left out there for as long as he was. What was the point? He wasn’t the usual dominant doctor, Jays were losing, he was over 115-120 pitches, and he still came out for another inning… Why even bother risking injury in this situation? I know almost all pitchers want to keep chucking (unless your name is Bedard) but I don’t think the risk is worth it.
Oh, this did not come into play in Saturdays game (MAYBE on the Garko double) but was quite an interesting comment … My girlfriend said to me, and I think it’ll make ya think a little…”How come Rios never dives head first, he always just slides on his a$$?”
Made me think, and I honestly can picture only 1 head first dive by Rios, last year in a Boston series where he kinda made a shoe string catch and fell forward. Now I realize that a play like this requires opportunities but I think there is something to this. What about you?
MW: I can’t remember Devon White ever diving head-first.
- Andrew (Guelph)Mike,
Addendum to previous post re: August 10th game. Ash was picked off 2B by Terry Kennedy in the 7th inning with 1 out and Vern Ruhle at the plate. He did coax Ruhle through 8 and two thirds innings of 8 hit ball and Randy Moffitt (former member of 1983’s “Hand Grenade Brigade” Blue Jay bullpen) got the final out of the game with runners at first and second. Overall a great day for Ash. Later,
- Tom the InternHi mike, just a thought; Use Greg Zaun in the DH spot with stairs to try for more hr’s, start Alex rios as leadoff where he excelled last year and make use of his speed for stealing bases-one facet of his game which has been good this year, keep using wilkerson/mench until Vernon’s back and one last note, great to see Joe inglett almost have the cycle, reminds me of Reed Johnson, tough, scrappy player who has earned his roster spot and still like him in the outfield! feel sorry for Roy halladay, had an ordinary game by his lofty standards, but with som run support deserved the win yesterday, thanks mike.
- robert sObviously Alan Ashby doesn’t listen to the Jays Talk or else he would have known that Scott Richmond would much rather be with the Jays at the moment than playing in the Olympics with taem Canada.
You’ve told so many callers and commenters that they don’t know what they’re talking about when they question it and Alan actually wondered whether Scott Richmond might be questioning missing the Olympics now that they’re on. Tell him to get with the program Mike.
- Peter B.Mike:
Nice of you and Alan to question the legitimacy of Cliff Lee’s dirty hat and try and make the stretch that it could be something underhanded. We know Halladay’s your guy and you want him to win the Cy Young and MVP award but other people are capable of having good seasons as well.
MW: One has nothing to do with the other. I haven’t seen another pitcher with a hat that dirty all season. I can’t believe that the Jays haven’t asked the umpires to check it.
- Peter B.Hey Mike,
I would have rather kept Mench instead of Wilkerson. Beyond the fact that Wilkerson has been awful, Mench could have platooned with Stairs at DH and was starting to swing the bat.
Secondly, in my mind Richmond had thrown two sub-par games in his first two starts (a .317 opp. avg, ERA around 5, and couldn’t get past the 6th) and yet a lot of people seemed to be happy with these results. I don’t care if he’s a 5th starter or not, thats not going to be good enough because the team is going to need to win with pitching. This is now three sub-par starts against arguably 3 of the worst offences in the league. Would the team not be better served bringing up one of the Romero’s who at least have some sort of ceiling. For comparison sake, Parrish’s numbers through 4 starts were better than Richmond’s current numbers through 3 starts.
MW: While certainly not great, all three of Richmond’s starts have been fine 5th-starter starts. I wouldn’t bring up Ricky Romero, he’s had barely a half-season of being good. I think Davis Romero might be the next call, but Parrish may well go back into the rotation with Brian Tallet coming back soon.
- Jeff18.August 9th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Hi Mike,
Which free agents should the Jays sign in the off season?
MW: Asked and answered, many times.
- Mikey
Mikey … here is the real answer to your question. They will get thre free agents who are left over because this team has JP as it’s GM and the agents and palyers know that as long as this egomaniac is running this team, they will continually take on his personality traits and they will be a .500 team at best, no more. The only way to get some real talent here, is to go and fire this clown that we have as a GM, however, I am sure Mike knows much more about that than we do and will tell us what a fabulous job JP is doing.
MW: And the obvious proof of your statement is that Ricciardi has never signed a highly sought-after free agent, nor has he ever been able to get any of his own star players (who would know him much better than those outside the organization) to forgo free agency and sign extensions with the Blue Jays. Oh wait….
- BobMike, I must vehemently disagree with the strategy to have Eckstein bunt with two on and noone out in the fifth. the team is down 3-0 against one of the league’s better pitchers (personally I didnt think Lee had his good stuff today). Even with a successful bunt, best case scenerio barring an error would be 2nd and 3rd with one out. That is your chance at a big inning..and u dont get them often vs. a pitcher like that.
Its not as if the pitcher is up or even Mac..its your number two hitter, rightly vs lefty…if there is such little faith in eckstein that he’s called on to bunt in the fifth inning down 3-0, then he shouldt be in the two hole to begin with. the strategy backfired of course but thats not even the point.
the bunt is one of the most divisive strategies in baseball. personally, i hate it. i think the bunt should be reserved when one run wins you the game or one run ties up the game when you are the home squad. other than that…retrospective statistical analysis after statisftical analysis shows that the bunt is a losing propostion. in fact your expected runs per inning decreases with a successful bunt vs just having that out back and the players back in their original locations.
at any rate, there really is no good reason to have eck bunt there. it was just hilarious how the intended purpose of the bunt was to eliminate a dp chance, yet they hit into a dp anyway! poetic justice or license or something.
MW: You’re preaching to the choir.
- sammy jalalzaiHi Mike,
Re Burnett boycotting the station:
Can understand him not wanting to go on Prime Time with the Bobcat, but you’ve been defending him even when his performance didn’t warrant it.
Not that we will be missing pearls of insight from the man. It’s all relative, but from what I ‘ve heard from him I never got the impression he was working on his dissertation in the off-season…
Do you think Ryan has the potential to get quality return in a trade (i.e a starting shortstop, 1st or third baseman, or starter)? Think they’d have to throw in an attractive prospect?
MW: I didn’t defend him when his performance didn’t warrant it. I don’t know if Ryan can command that much in trade by himself. The Rangers got a pretty nice package from Boston in the Gagne deal last year (David Murphy, Kason Gabbard, +), but he didn’t have two years left at $9M per.
- Kenre: “pre madonna”
- dogcan’t stop laughing at that one
In an afternoon game today in Bingingham, New Hampshire was down 1 run at the top of the 9th. 22 year old catching prospect (2007 draftee) J.P Arencibia sent in as a pitch hitter, promptly hit a home run and tied the game which New Hampshire went on to win in the 10th.
Arencibia was playing in his 106th game this season between Dunedin and New Hampshire. For the season he’s hitting .305 with 32 doubles, 26 home runs and 98 rbi’s, proving when he tied Alex Rodgriquez’s high school hr record it wasn’t a fluke.
So why is this kid still in AA? He’s hit 34% of the entire amount of home runs hit by the entire Jay’s lineup. As limited as our power resources are here, I would expect kids like this and Brian Dobriak-who’s hit 27 hr’s for Dunedin earning a promotion to AA New Hampsphire would be bumped to AAA and play along with Travis Snider who’s hit 21 hr’s this year.
Or do we not need the power?
MW: First of all, your spelling is terrible. Second - the fact that guys like Arencibia, Snider and Dopirak are hitting homers in A-ball and AA doesn’t mean that they’d also be hitting those home runs in the majors right now. There’s usually a natural progression for a prospect on his way up, and that progression usually involves more than two months of AA. I’d also like to see at least a third walk from Arencibia at that level.
- gerry#31. People like Harry Caray, who called Nomo a jap or the guy with slanted eyes, still exist in media. I’ve kinda noticed that Jewish stars like Braun and Youkilis also don’t get a lot of mention by most broadcasters. Some sort of discrimination still exists and that’s purely my opinion.
MW: I think you’re really stretching here. I would say that conservatively, about 95% of broadcasters don’t know that Braun and Youkilis are Jewish.
- Beburg aka The 88mph manQuestion/comment regarding Dopirak.
So far, (sample sample size) he’s 6 for 13 in AA. He did extremely well in A ball this season, and showed a lot of power. Power is power, regardless of where you are.
Looks like he’s at 1B. I don’t know if he’s always been there or if they recently put him there.
My question is, if continues to do very well in AA in August and with Stairs and Overbay’s subpar (but not horrible) performance this year, is there a possibility, and do you think it would be a good idea to call him up to give him a look in September this year?
In my opinion, what is there to lose? The guy is 25 or 26. It’s pretty much soon or never. It’s not as if it’s a scenario like Snider’s where you want to be careful. And the way he’s hit this year, and in 2004 where he was even better, this guy seems like a low risk high reward type of player.
Anyways, my opinion only, but I’d like to see what this guy can do against big league pitching. To me, it would be a more productive call up than Mench, Thigpen, Adams or Luna. Do you think JP’s considering it, and if not should he?
MW: I doubt very much that he’s considering it, given that Dopirak has had (as you mention) all of 13 at-bats above A-ball. However, he was a minor league free agent at the end of last season and will be again unless the Jays put him on the 40-man, so there may well be a reason to give him a September look. I dispute the notion that power is power, regardless of where one is, though.
- ReneMike daddy,
Can you explain why they chose to keep Wilkerson over Mench? With Vernon back at set to return to the outfield, wouldn’t the Jays want to keep Mench to platoon with Stairs at DH? I think that there is more use for Mench on this team than for Wilkerson.
MW: Wilkerson is a better defender than Mench, is faster and can play centre if needed. Offensively, they’ve been about the same, and the fact that Wilkerson hits left-handed weighed into the decision as well. But it’s moot anyway - Mench is back.
- Juan Duresswe’ve re-signed Vernon Wells who is proving he is a glass ornament, great to look at, just don’t touch, who else?Roy Halliday (singing his solo, All By Myself and he is finally getting tired of playing for a .500 team, woops don’t let JP’s record get in the way of the facts Mike), Aaron Hill? Greg Zahn? Oh yah, your favorite, Lyle Overbay, yup great until he has to play a game that counts. How about our ADHD right fielder Alex Rios, that was a good move signing him to a long term contract. How about Johnny Mac? Yup, lets sign him so that we can sign Eckstein! How about Frank Thomas, now there was a strong move there, get into a bidding war with yourself. Rolen is a good player, but his best days are behind him. Tony Larossa doesn’t give up on guys who can get him to playoff contention. Unfortunately, having had should issues myself, I feel for this guy, unfortunately, JP doesn’t know about that.
So Mike, really what is the upside to this team? You are allowed to cheer every move that JP makes, and excuse him for knocking other teams players like Dunn, we should be allowed to question moves that don’t give us a hungry young team that has a future.
Not for one moment do I wish that this team fails, I don’t want them to lose, I want them to contend, I am not even asking for them to make the playoffs, but to give us something to cheer for past March 31 every year. Unfortunately, as you have stated over and over and over again, that we must have our facts. Well, tell me that haveing a .500 record or less each year is going to get us to contending status so that we have meaningful games in August and September. I don’t see, and an increasing number of fans, media and baseball people see what the problem is. We want a contender, not a team that makes excuses each and every year.
- BobTo all those who are wondering about what could be distracting Rios these days…his girlfriend gave birth only a few months ago. I know from my own experience that having your first child can take your mind off of your work for many many months. This may not be an excuse, but if Alex is as decent a guy as he seems to be from what we see of him in the media, it’s no surprise that he’d be distracted as he’d probably rather be with his child than to be anywhere else in world, no matter how much money he makes. I think that he’ll be back to producing and defending at a high level by next season.
MW: John McDonald’s wife had a baby less than a week after Rios’, and he’s had no focus issues. I’m sure you’re right, that he’d rather be with his beautiful newborn baby girl than anywhere else in the world, but he didn’t go on paternity leave, so he has to focus on the task at hand for three hours or so a day.
- FabioSal Fasano’s idea that Rios carries his bad at-bats into the field with him deserves some consideration. I’d believe it if it wasn’t for the times I’ve seen Rios daydreaming on 1st base or 3rd, and one presumes that he got on base because he hit the ball.
MW: That doesn’t mean he still can’t be thinking about his at-bats when he’s on base.
- reyesPower is power? ummm..no…
as far as “facing big league pitching in september”
one of the problems with september call ups is they are often facing other september callups. its not like you are facing a true big leaguer every time up. the good news of the jays is they do play many games in september against teams that will be in the hunt.
by the way…rene, arencibia just got to AA a few weeks ago…chillllllll
- sammy jalazaiPS I see that T-Bay is still killing the competition. I think you might be wrong about them. They’re heading for the post-season and I couldn’t be happier for them. If we can’t win–and God knows, we can’t win–I hope they go all the way. They deserve it.
I wish I could say that the Jays deserved something, anything, other than pink slips all round. What a rotten team we have this year!
- reyesI would love it if the Jays signed Manny Ramirez in the off season..However, if the Jays felt that Barry Bonds would have been a distraction to the team then why sign Ramirez?..That whole Manny being Manny thing wouldn’t fly in Toronto..I can’t see a guy like Halladay shrugging his shoulders and cracking up when he sees Manny rolling on a few balls in the outfield..Now I realize Bonds is on another level because he has some serious legal issues but Bonds wasn’t rolling on balls in the field and most of the players he played with said he was a good teammate..Bonds has issues with the media more then anything else..Is it Riccardi that doesn’t want to sign Bonds or someone higher then him?..Anyway, Is Ramirez worth the trouble any more then Bonds?..
MW: Wow, a legit question from you. I’m impressed. I’m confident that the Jays decision not to pursue Bonds had nothing to do with the team’s baseball operations people. Manny would be acceptable to pursue because he’s not Barry Bonds.
- gumpHey Mike .. I like what J.P. is doing but one of the deals that really bugs me is the money they paid Frank to be the D.H. for the JAYS .. It was not the signing ,it was the money .. From my thinking , nobody else was willing to pay him huge bucks so why do you think J.P. decided to pay twice the sticker price of a used car.. I’m sure we could of got him for 7 million for a 1 year deal being that his base salary was 500 K and with his incentives he made 2.9 mil. Do you know if there was any interest in Frank at that time as far as the stupid money J.P. offered? I am not a typical JAY fan .. If a lot of JAY fans put them selves in a G.M. situation with the money aspect and budgets they might think twice what they are trying to acomplish , so this deal with Frank goes against the grain of what J.P.has done with his other deals.. Mike, you and I tend to agree that for the most part J.PS. deals really are not bad ,especially on paper which is all you can ask of a G.M. but can you clarify why o why would he open the vault that much when I dont think there was anybody even kickin’ the tires .. Unless you heard that there was tons of interest in Frank and there was some kind of bidding war for him I’ll accept JP.S decision but I sincerely doubt it.. Again I liked the signing at the time but not the dough.. Whats your take on this Mike..
MW: My take is that the money doesn’t matter, that signing Thomas to the contract to which he was signed didn’t mean the Jays missed out on anyone that off-season. I don’t know if there was other interest in Thomas, but I do know that there’s often something to be said for swooping in ahead of all the other suitors and blowing a player away with an offer he would have a very hard time refusing. The problem is, that tends only to be a good thing if it works out, and this one didn’t.
- FLIPPERMike you have said on many occasions that you think the Jays are close,
How are they close if
1. They cannot produce or aquire a good hitting, healty reliable 3rd baseman or shortstop.
2. They have no power
3. The leadoff spot is in question
4. The DH position is in Question.
5. Who is going to be the number 2. Starting pitcher next year.
6. Who wil be the bonifide catcher next year.
7. Jays under current upper management has not finised greater than 9.0 games back of the wild card and has once finished ten games over five hundred.
All these factors remain seven years later in the hands Of JP Richardi who claimed he could turn this team into a contender through the draft. Seven years later 9.0 games back of the wild card 12 back of the division with 100million dollars in payroll.
You saying that Jays are close is simply not true.
MW: And yet, they’re pretty close.
- Neilwhat’s the likelinesshoodbility of Cito or the other new coaches teaching Johnny Mac a few things and then he becomes a 270-280 guy??
MW: If Mac were 25, maybe. But he’ll be 34 next month.
- Andrew SSammy,
I asked Mike a question, not you, by the way.
And I didn’t even mention Arencibia. I don’t know where you got that. Arencibia is 22, and I can understand being more careful with him.
I was talking about Dopirak. I mean what’s wrong with giving him a look IF he does well in August in AA (who knows he might stink it up down there). Seriously, what’s it gonna hurt. Would you rather see Mench called up? Dopirak is 26, and as Mike mentioned a minor league free agent next year. Why not give him a look for a month? Of course, if JP decides not to, I’m sure he has a good reason for it, and I’ll respect that, cause he knows a heck of a lot more about this stuff than we do.
I probably didn’t explain myself well enough when I said that power is power. What I meant was that the guy obviously has potential for power. I doubt you’d see Inglett, Scutaro, Eckstein and similar players hit 27 hr’s in 400 AB down there. They’re not “power hitters”. In fact, I doubt many other of the Jays’ do that. I’m also not saying that Dopirak will do that against major league pitching, but where’s the risk in seeing if he does? It’s not the first year he’s put up those types of numbers in the minors.
- Rene#51. The nickname “The Hebrew Hammer”, might give them a hint about Braun but they aren’t smart enough to know if Hebrew is a language or a hammer making company.
- Beburg aka The 88mph manMW: I think you’re really stretching here. I would say that conservatively, about 95% of broadcasters don’t know that Braun and Youkilis are Jewish.
are you seriously saying that 95% of broadcasters don’t know that the guy they’ve popularly dubbed ‘the Hebrew Hammer’, is Jewish?
MW: I haven’t heard many sportscasters use that nickname.
- Jay B