10:33 PM Eastern
Was the bottom of the 6th inning one of the most ridiculous half-innings of the recent past, or is it just me?
Going into that inning, Roy Halladay and Matt Garza were locked up in a great duel, throwing twin one-hit shutouts, both dominating, but here’s what happened next:
-Ben Zobrist led off with a grounder to third that took a crazy hop over the head of Scott Rolen, who stands 6′4″, and into left field for a single.
-Akinori Iwamura dropped down a bunt to move the runner, but it was a great one and he just beat Scott Rolen’s throw for a single.
-Carl Crawford couldn’t bunt the runners over, and instead hit a roller right down the first-base line that flirted with foul territory right up until the point when Halladay picked it up and home plate ump Mike DiMuro called it fair (it probably was) and Halladay, Barajas and Lyle Overbay all flipped out.
-Carlos Pena dropped a blooper just over Marco Scutaro’s head and just in front of Adam Lind for an RBI single.
-Evan Longoria fouled a pair of two-strike pitches off his leg, hobbling around in a great deal of pain on two separate occasions, then belted a 3-2 pitch (10th delivery of the at-bat) into the left-field seats for his first career Grand Slam.
In all, the Rays sent 10 players to the plate in that 5-run inning, and exactly ONE of them hit the ball hard. The two hits after the slam were an infield single in the 5-6 hole off Rolen’s glove by B.J. Upton and a surprise bunt single by Dioner Navarro.
In that one inning, Tampa did everything that the Blue Jays haven’t been able to do all season. They were even 3-for-5 with runners in scoring position.
The Jays finally woke up in the 9th, with a nice four-run rally, but it ended with Scott Rolen continuing his brutal July, popping up foul to the catcher. Rolen is now hitting .149/.245/.191 in the 13 games since (and including) Canada Day.
What was the deal with DiMuro tonight, by the way? It seemed like it was one of those rare games where an umpire wants to make himself the show. Granted, the slow-motion replay on Crawford’s dribbler was pretty inconclusive, and I’m inclined to say that he likely made the right call, but how do you not ask the first base ump for help? Then DiMuro squeezed Jesse Carlson to such a great extent that Brad Arnsberg went to the mound to talk to him for no other reason than to wait for the ump to come out and break it up so he could let him have it (and get tossed in the bargain). Then DiMuro ran Brandon League for hitting Dioner Navarro in the knee in the 8th, when anyone who has seen League pitch all season would realize that there was no way he hit the guy on purpose. If he was trying to hit him, he probably would have painted the outside black!
Lastly, I’ve been fighting a throat thing since Thursday - maybe from pushing myself so hard with the late nights at Yankee Stadium, combined with the heat in NYC and moving back and forth from it to severe air conditioning, maybe Letterman’s studio has something to do with it - heck, maybe I got it from Tim Lincecum! Regardless, it wasn’t the best night for the feed to drop from the stadium, though it was a lot of fun to take over the play-by-play for the final five batters of the ballgame. No crowd noise behind me made it weird, we should have pumped some in, NFL-style, but it was pretty cool. The longest I’ve gone, I think, doing play-by-play on an emergency basis like that. It would have been incredible if the Jays had tied it.
Here’s tonight’s The JaysTalk, for your listening pleasure:
Rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
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March 30, 1934: Bebe Didrikson pitched an inning of an exhibition game for Branch Rickey’s Cardinals against the Red Sox (she gave up four hits). Not a great showing, but it calls attention to the fact that there’s no actual rule barring women from playing in the MLB.
With so many talented (and strong!) women playing professional ball in the states and at the World Cup – many whom professional analysts have claimed could compete with MLB players without a handicap – do you think that there’s ever a chance we could see integration in this game?
MW: I doubt very much we’ll see it in the next, say, 10-20 years, but never say never.
- AndrewJust wanted to point out that the Iwamura bunt was fielded by Rolen.
MW: You’re right - I fixed it. It was Navarro’s bunt that was fielded by The Captain.
- WesleyLet it roll man, let it roll. In all my years watching baseball I’ve always wondered why players have been so quick to snatch up the ball when they felt it was a millimetre foul. I listened endlessly to commentators justify the play by saying the ball could skip fair as ofcourse it is not foul or fair before the bag or until a player touches it. No matter the great Halladay cut it a bit too close. Dont pick up the ball, dont pick up the ball! Well perhaps in Halladay’s super human perception the ball was foul but for the mortal umpires he should have let it roll! The Tigers are still playing.
MW: That ball, as I said, was flirting with the foul line the whole way up. Halladay grabbed it as soon as he saw it go foul because he thought it might kick back fair that quickly.
- DanielRios for Francouer, your thoughts.
MW: I hate the fact that Francoeur is allergic to the walk. Also, he was struggling so much that earlier this month the Braves sent him all the way down to AA.
- BrendanHAHA…rational, reasonable comments are always welcome!
anyways, I was wondering if you could put up links to where you answer some of the commonly asked questions so people instead of bothering you over and over again with such questions can just go look there? Like the question about who is available on FA? or what do you think about halladays comments? or is burnett goign to get traded? or where is he going to get traded?….you know the frequently asked questions…
oh and now i belive the Jays have a 0.33% chance of making the playoffs (before all star break i was thinking around 1.5 - 2%) what do you think?
MW: I have thought about putting up an FAQ section, but I don’t know if it’s feasible. Until then, you guys will have to read back. As for what percentage the Jays have of making the playoffs, I think it’s kind of silly. They have a very, very slim chance. If they do make it, they have overcome great odds, but unless you’re betting, what’s the point of putting a number to it?
- HarryNo, it wasn’t just you. I couldn’t believe it. At the end, I just wanted to give Doc a hug. There was a shot of the dugout and it looked like Arnsberg was trying to talk him down. He so didn’t deserve to lose this way. The hit was foul and Longoria should have been out on the 2-2.
I also didn’t think League was throwing at Navarro but Mullinks and Barfield said it was retaliation. They’ve played the game, I haven’t, so I’ll defer to their observations in this instance.
Hope you’re feeling better soon. I’ve just finished up with that nasty head cold that has been going around.
MW: I’m not sure Crawford’s hit was foul, and I think that 20 years ago that might have been retaliation for bunting with a five-run lead, but not anymore.
- MKmike, I’m not sure why you keep saying the future is so bright. this hitting group is a total complete disaster. look at the core group
wells, grossly overpaid, decent hitter but not great
rios, past 5 years incl this one has had only 2 good years. and only 1 good power year. he may rebound but it’s unclear that he will
overbay, now has had 2 bad years in a row. when that happens you usually get traded or released, see sexson
rolen, one of the worst trades in blue jays history. glaus hits 20 hr every year the past 4, rolen? once. once again 2 bad years in a row means you don’t stick around for a third
hill, totally mediocre player, he has had a whopping 1 good year in his career and you think he is the next alomar.
and since JP did such a lovely job locking these guys up for eternity we are stuck watching this sad sack for the next decade because all these guys are untradeable.
MW: Step down off the ledge. You’re wrong about every one of those guys.
- roccoMichael of the Ballyard:
One of the broadcasters made the point that Halladay doesn’t usually flip like that, so he must have a point when he does. Plus, because he picked it up, it means that either a) he’d conceded it wasn’t going to roll foul or b) it had rolled foul. Obviously, had he conceded it wasn’t going to go foul, he wouldn’t have freaked about it being called fair.
He had the best view in the park (better than the ump’s, I would think) AND Overbay and Barajas flipped. Plus, as you said, the ump blew a bunch of other calls. So I really don’t get how it makes sense to you that the ball was actually fair.
And did Bruce Walton come in from the bullpen to take over as pitching coach? I think I’d gone out to rip the bong or something (I can’t remember exactly what I was doing at the time) when Arnsberg was tossed, but I know in the bottom of the 8th they showed a shot of Cito with a Waltonesque-looking dude sitting beside him.
MW: Oh, there’s no doubt in my mind that Halladay believed with every fibre of his being that the ball was foul, but that doesn’t mean it was, or that it was foul enough that the umpire could see it was. I didn’t see the shot of Walton, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he’d come down from the pen and let Alex Andreopolous run the show there.
- JCLCito…stop playing scutaro and wilkerson for the love of GOD
- sammy jalalzaiits a sad sad sad day when the two best hitters on your team are Joe inglett and your ninth hitter.
- sammy jalalzaimike, you said that glaus is “no longer that scary bat”. huh? I think 17 hr and 60 rbis is pretty scary. every year he hits 20 hr. that is pretty consistent scaryness. but you will pick some obscure stat like “he cant hit righties”. last time I checked all the homers and rbis count
MW: Actually, this year he’s tearing it up against righties. I’m really impressed by his resurgence in St. Louis.
- roccoYes, that 6th inning was indeed one of the unluckiest in a long time. However, when you when you go inning after inning without scoring any runs, eventually you get unlucky. Also, you tend to get unlucky when you don’t put your best defense on the field — do you think a good defensive shortstop might have made a play on the bounder or the blooper? It was a great effort by Rolen on the bunt single — maybe he should have been in a bit more, since a bunt is not so unlikely in a 0-0 pitcher’s duel. On the ball rolling up the first base line: it is very important not to be confrontative with the umpire until you know he’s made his final call. You have to just say the ball was fall and ask him to get help — if you start to yell he will never back down.
Halladay really impressed me with his grit in this inning, and how much he wants to win. What a competitor!
MW: Confrontative?
- roy hughesWait a minute, that was you doing play-by-play in the 9th? I could have sworn I was listening to Vin Scully.
MW: The only thing Scullyish about it was that I was the only one in the room.
- Jay MoneyGreat job filling in the play by play… you sounded like a natural.
There has been a few times this season, where the Jays attempt a comeback in the 9th inning only to lose it… is that right?
Why can’t they do that earlier?
MW: Thanks. They don’t do it earlier because they don’t feel it’s necessary to do it earlier.
- Victor Kovariand another thing..why is it not a bad idea to bring up snider cause the jays “have nothing to lose” yet bringing up a more accomplished more experienced player like scott campbell is NOT a reasonable plan?
MW: I’m fine with bringing up Scott Campbell for a look. Now. Back when I wasn’t fine with it I also wasn’t fine with bringing Snider up. Situations change.
- sammy jalalzaiIts called taking advantages of breaks something the Jays cant do.
Put Overbay or Rios in Langoria’s position an guess what, a double play.
Anyways, the frustrating part of the game I though was the Jays missing fastballs down the middle when the knew they were coming.
MW: Yeah, it’s amazing how Longoria is a machine and Rios and Overbay never get any hits.
- Anonymousrational and reasonable comments. aahh, you’re a dreamer mr. wilner, and i dig that about you! don’t you ever change.
what would you put the odds at for Burnett to be traded by the 31st?
MW: Slightly better than 50-50.
- eyebleafMike, is Eckstein in such bad graces with Cito that his potential as a DH has been overlooked? Why not sit Stairs and see what the little guy can do? Then you’re not saddled with his defence, or Matt’s myopia.
It may be a case of re-arranging the deck chairs,but something HAS to change the skid. As of right now, they don’t stand a chance of winning 2 out of 3 the rest of the year, which they must do to contend. The pitching is formidable, but how many times has the bullpen let them down? Outside of Snakeface, I cringe when they go to any of the relievers. They are not a fun team to watch, probably reflected by the empty seats at the R.C.
Here’s to the 2009 Blue Jays!
MW: I don’t get why Cito has no use whatsoever for Eckstein. The bullpen has let them down a lot, but only because it’s so often working with no margin for error. The Jays have the 2nd-best bullpen ERA in the league, and yet the relievers as a group are 6-17. That’s not the bullpen letting the team down, it’s the offense.
- JackBill Parcells has a saying that goes “you are what your record says you are”. That certainly applies to this Blue Jays team. Every club has bad breaks and injuries, but this clubs inability to hit the ball on a constant and consistent basis has doomed it to no better than a fourth place finish. J.P. was right when he said on your show back in April “If this club doesn’t hit, their not as good as I thought they were”. I, for one, will hold him to that should he retain his job next year.
Scott Rolen has been a major disappointment. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not angry at his performance, nor am I out to criticise him, I’m just disappointed. While some may say the Jays lost out big in the Glaus trade, the truth is Glaus did not want to be in Toronto and let the club know as much. I’d rather have a guy like Rolen, who at least wants to be in Toronto, than a guy like Glaus who did not.
Looking forward, I feel the club must find an everyday shortstop who can hit, or move Aaron Hill over to short and find a secondbasemen. I think with the kids coming up from the minors, the catching issue will take care of itself in the next year or two. Finally, Alex Rios, Rolen and Lyle Overbay are going to have to start producing or the club will have to go out and find someone who can. You could say the failures of Alex Rios and vernon Wells are a one year thing, but you never know. Take a good look at the abrupt decline of Jesse Barfield’s career before age 30 for proof. There is nothing more about Vernon Wells or Lyle Overbay that I might say that has not already been said. It’s time for these guys to produce. It’s mindbottling that J.P. can say he does not want Adam Dunn. Dunn’s 27 home runs are three times more than any Jay.
Sorry if I’m rambling. I had to tell someone.
MW: No problem.
- Jim BranscomeHi Mike,
It was awesome to hear you do play-by-play. You did a really great job. Maybe you can convince Jerry to take a day off so you can do an entire game. Anyway, keep up the great work.
MW: Thanks!
- ChrisDon’t protect these guys… Stop blaming umpires and stuff.. The Jays are not what they were in 92/93. JP has to go and so does Godfrey.. These two maroons aren’t good enough in this city..
So stop protecting them you homer
MW: Go read back and find me where I said that the Jays would have won last night if not for the umpiring and “stuff”.
- Danny JelovacHey Mike,
There is clearly a market for a new Jays blog. Perhaps someone could start the Uncongenial Jays Fan blog for the guys who just want to argue with you and don’t feel they have anywhere else to turn.
Not to put too much on two games but had the Jays won these first two they would be 6.5 games back of Tampa Bay and 7 back of Boston (I think). The bats have been remarkably flat again, save for the 4-spot when the game was already decided. I think they’ve missed an excellent opportunity.
Question: Do you think Manny would play DH full-time?
Thanks Mike
MW: I do think Manny would DH full-time. As for the Uncongenial Jays’ Fan Blog - if you want to start it up, send me the contract offer and I’ll get right on it!
- JeffMike,
Glad to see the quick paragraph about Rolen’s brutal July… he’s absolutely killing me… at this point he’s just a Johnny Mac at 3rd. Don’t get me wrong. I love both these guys but I think even Rolen’s June was pretty subpar (.278/.381/.478, better than I’d expected) but he just can’t seem to get it going at all… maybe it’s my frustration talking, because I can’t believe I’m actually saying this, but:
“Is it time to bring back Russ Adams?” (I look at the SkyChiefs site and he’s an outfielder now? And batting .209 with 9 homers? Forget that then.) Outside of Hector Luna, who can we bring up to replace him? (Though I know it won’t happen)
Thanks
MW: No one is coming up to replace Rolen, he’s just going to have to work his way out of it. But you’re right - right now he’s not even a John McDonald at third.
- LukeWhen League got tossed, on television they made it seem that hitting Navarro was an attempt for getting back at him for laying down a bunt with a comfortable lead. Looking at the highlights it looked intentional to me. Another game lossed and another game lossed due to lack of hitting. I would like see some prospects come up and get some MLB experience then watch guys like Mench,Wilkerson,etc, who aren’t getting any better. Perhaps Snider or Campbell could get a chance. Would the Jays get more value for Barajas or Zaun in a trade? There are a couple good prospects at catcher in the minors already so I don’t see a point in keeping both of these guys.
MW: I’m with you on taking a look at some of the prospects, and I think Zaun is the catcher to move (if there’s a market) because the Jays have a cheap option on Barajas for next year.
- DaveMike, regarding the home plate ump not asking for help on a call, are the other umps obliged to keep quiet unless asked (even if they think the call should go the other way?)
Stan
MW: Yes.
- StanThat 6th inning, pretty well summed up the Jays season thus far as to the only luck they get is all bad! That was as improbable as it gets!
I know, a hitters mechanics will never be adjusted while at the plate, during a game. For the most part, as discussed before, it is all “muscle memory”. However, watching Rios is becoming painful - he does not swing through pitches at all - his hips are frozen and he just seems to be elsewhere at times. You could conceivably go back to the second half of last season until now, as to his lack of hitting the long ball. He needs a lot of bp, instruction and some heart to heart discussion.
I watched “The Jays 08″ the other night and was impressed with how they did the show and interviews etc. Litsch however is not all that impressive - he just reminds me of kid who works the farm.
When others, speak of the Jays and what a dismal team this is, they should perhaps re-think this. Scott Rolen, on the program stated this is the best team he has played on. BJ Ryan, “ditto” as to that statement. So, if a guy like Rolen, who plays the game so well and has come from some pretty good teams says this - what makes some of you such experts. Quit whining and enjoy the game!
The Jays, are a very good team, a combination of lousy luck and risp have just taken a huge toll on them. To a man, (Rios?) they work very hard, but it must be so frustrating when things like that 6th inning from last night happen.
The Jays, will pull off a win today before departing Tropicana Field. Much, much better days are ahead. It’s time for a huge turn-around. We miss Vernon to say the least.
Thanks.
MW: Miss Vernon? Last week everyone was saying how much better the team is without him!
- BobAccording to the rocket scientists on CBC, League planned to hit Navarro for that bunt single in the Big Inning. It didn’t make too much sense to me, but I do agree that, judging by League’s demeanour after the pitch, he did intend that.
The home-plate umpiring on this game was horrible. It did look as though Di Muro was squeezing Carlsson. I don’t think there’s a complaints protocol against umpires, which is a shame. Come to think of it, the last time I saw such a ridiculous show at HP was years ago at the then Sky-Dome, and that was also a T-Bay game. When that twerp tossed Halladay for ‘intentionally’ hitting a T-Bay batter. Totally ridiculous, given that it would have been Halladay’s 21st win and he was locked 1-down in a pitcher’s duel. It was the year he won the Cy Young…
MW: Yeah, that was brutal. Phil Cuzzi ran Halladay for hitting Rocco Baldelli (?) in the back with a curveball.
- reyesMike, I hate the Toronto Blue Bells.
- Vito From HamiltonHi Mike
- marioJust when you think it can’t get any weirder it does.I couldn’t beleive that 6th inning that juist goes to show how luck can play a huge role in a baseball game.I thought Doc pitched a great game like Burnett the night before but one mistake and it was all over.How long can the Jays just keep putting Stairs in the 4 hole.This slump has gone on since May.Do you think a team in the chase will take a flier on him or do you think we should keep him and hope he turns it around.He is a streaky hitter.I think we should call up some kids.We might catch lightning in a bottle and even if we don’t they cannot do any worse than Wilkerson,Scutaro,Stairs and the rest of the teamwith the way the Jays are hitting in July it ’s hard to believe that we won 5of 6 before the break.
mario
Go Jays!!!
Do you think Johnny Mac would have caught the first bloop that Scutaro missed by a mile? I thought it was catchable for someone as acrobatic as Johnny Mac.
Burnett made only one poor pitch - Jays lost. Halladay made only one poor pitch - Jays lost. Where the hell is lady luck? Is this team cursed or what.
MW: It’s cursed to the extent that it can’t hit. If there was any offense at all Friday night, Burnett’s mistake wouldn’t have made a difference.
- Beburg aka The relief pitcherMike, Rolen’s garbage.
- Vito From HamiltonMike. All the information about baseball I need, is to know when that used car salesman JP will be canned.
- Vito From HamiltonCorrect me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the ball have to be completely off the foul line to be called a foul ball?..It was clear to me that the ball was still on the line a hair when Halladay picked it up..If he waited another second that ball would have gone completely over the line and we may not be looking at a loss..Clearly that play knocked Halladay off his game..The Rays take advantage of their brakes and score runs..The Blue Jays don’t..
Robert Szasz must be in paradise down there..The Rays are acutally winning and he is getting some good licks in..Too bad Hinske is on the Rays he was one of The Sass’s best targets..Does he heckle Hinske or does he get a free pass now?
Hard to belive that The Rays actually get almost 30,000 fans to watch the Jays..Its unreal but I must admit I am happy to see baseball fans in Tampa..
MW: You’re right, the ball must be completely over the line in order to be foul. I’m stunned, though, that you actually believe that the view from the camera had a better angle on the ball than Halladay, who was standing directly above it. He wouldn’t have touched the ball unless he was sure it was completely off the line. The home plate umpire disagreed.
- gumpIn response to Danny Jelovac, Mike I agree you didn’t blame the umpires for the Blue Jays loss, but I am. In the 6th that ball was foul and if called correctly the score was 2-0 for the Rays, the Jays scored 4 in the 9th and a 4-2 lead. BJ Ryan comes in for the save and the Jays win. Case closed.
MW: Hardly case closed at all. Let’s say that ball was foul, and was called that way. How does that make Carl Crawford then get out?
- Mark from HamiltonOn July 1st, Rolen’s OPS was .839 and Glaus’s was .831. No ill will towards Big Troy, but it seems that alot of people have forgotten that he’s capable of hibernating offensively for weeks and even months at a time. After two bad weeks everyone’s off the Rolen train? Give me a break.
- johnny wasMike, you failed to mention the damn rock on the foul line. I disagree with you on two points
1- That ball was foul. It was foul on tv and I would give Doc the benefit of the doubt. Why would he pick a ball up and not make a play if it was fair?
2- League hit Navarro on purpose. It’s too much of a coincidence for it just to be wildness.
It’s very unfair to force these pitchers to play without offense.
MW: After hearing Cito Gaston on the pre-game with Jerry, yes, League definitely hit Navarro on purpose - though why he can do that and not throw a strike is baffling. The ball wasn’t foul on TV, though, it was VERY debatable from that angle as to whether or not it had come off the line. I didn’t mention the rock because I wasn’t sure what it was. Why would there be a rock there? I thought it might be gum or something. Great groundskeeping, though.
- JoannaMike-While the Jays continue to struggle with the bats I am mystified by the way some of the minor leaguers who might be able to replace these sleeping bats soon are being handled.David Smith an outfielder showed promise last year leading New Hampshire in both HR and RBIs with 24 and 70.Injuries delayed his progress this spring but he eventually made it to Syracuse where he mostly sat on the bench watching veterans play while still hitting 302.Then he was sent back to AA.Scott Campbell has been tearing up AA all year while Syracuse experiments with various veteran second basemen but he has still not been promoted.What is the explanation for these weird decisions?How can we get help from the farm when those who succeed are held back?
Paul
MW: I don’t know that they’re being held back, rather that they’re moving along according to the development plan that has been set out for them. Dick Scott and Ton LaCava are smart, experienced guys. The Jays have shown willingness to move guys up in a hurry if it’s warranted, but they’re taking a slower track with these guys, and we’ll have to see if it pays off.
- Paul McCreathHi Mike,
Whether Scutero, Eckstein or McDonald plays shortstop doesn’t matter much at this point - as you pointed out last night, the Jays need a shortstop.
As you also mentioned, they need a catcher. Will someone like Zaunie actually be TRADED?? If that happens, will be fascinated to see what another team would give up for him.
Also agree that Jays must do better than Stairs and friends at DH.
Upgrading at first base is ESSENTIAL - or if they can’t do that they have to upgrade at third, ’cause the present twosome are helping to kill their offence, and it’s unlikely either will rebound (Rolen’s career seems in freefall decline).
To my mind these are four MAJOR areas that need to be addressed, not “tweaks”. J.P. has had his chance -in his tenure he’s failed utterly to find a legitimate catcher or shortstop. Within a few months the new G.M. will be facing a lot of challenges…
MW: He has failed to find a long-term solution at shortstop, no question, but he does have three very good young catchers working their way through the system right now. To say Rolen’s career is in freefall is a pretty serious exaggeration - the guy has had an awful July after being fine in May and June. DH has to be upgraded, for sure, but those guys seem to be relatively easy to find.
- KenHey Mike
Nice job this year. Can you give me an example of a baseball GM that has kept his job after seven years without playing a meaningful game in the last six weeks of a season? I thing the end of the JP era is a pretty sure bet.
MW: Off the top of my head, I can’t.
- JeffGeez, Mike, I have to disagree with a couple comments above. First, I acknowledge that the roller down first was inconclusive on the replay, but to then say it probably was fair… It looked foul to me. And, perhaps more importantly, of all the players in baseball, I think Doc is the least likely to engage in the kind of gamemanship involved in pretending with such an Oscar-worthy performance if he didn’t truly believe it was foul. And, after all, who was closer.
Though, I do agree with the commenter above: if you start off by yelling at the ump, your chances of convincing him to ask for help are greatly reduced.
Also, I think League threw at Navarro intentionally without a doubt. In fact, I expected it! Admittedly, the knees are not a probable target, but I think that is more a testament to Leagues chronic control issues to which you referred.
Have fun. Play ball.
MW: I don’t think for a second that Halladay was engaging in gamesmanship at all, as I mentioned. I’m sure he believed it was foul, without question. And yes, League was throwing at Navarro.
- MikieHow come you talk Bruno down from the ledge but me you leave up there? Could it be you want me to jump?
I have blocked 2005 from my memory, but how does this team compare in stats to the last place finish Jays of that year?
MW: I sense a difference in intellect between you and Bruno, I’m not sure if you’ve noticed it, too. You’re thinking of 2004. That year, the Jays scored 719 runs (4.44 per game), but allowed 823 (5.08). As a group, they hit .260/.328/.403 and had only two players who hit more than 15 home runs. With RISP, they hit .259/.343/.401. The pitching staff had a collective ERA of 4.91.
This year, the Jays are scoring 4.16 runs per game, but have allowed 3.96. They’re hitting .253/.333/.381 and have only two players on pace to hit as many as 15 home runs. With RISP, they’re hitting .240/.332/.355. The pitching staff has a collective ERA of 3.65.
- reyesMike. The Jays offense. Will it go ’round in circles or will it fly high like a bird up in the sky?
- Vito From HamiltonHey Mike,
Quick question, while travelling up from New York late last night on the train we passed through Syracuse, and passed close to this lovely looking Ballpark a couple of minutes walk from the station (a game was in progress)
I assume this was the home park of the Syracuse Skychiefs?
I knew you would know for sure.
MW: I don’t know for sure, I’ve only passed through The Cuse a couple of times. But they’re the Chiefs again, by the way.
- ukJayHey Mike, do you know what day the Blue Jays start to report for Spring Training? I know there is the mandatory days for pitchers to report then the rest of the team, but when do they usually start to come to Dunedin. Th reason being, I am planning a vacation next Feb/March. Thanks Mike, I appreciate it.
MW: I don’t know the official reporting date for next year, but they start to roll in around the 10th or so. Workouts usually start around the 18th-19th.
- JamieHi Mike,
I know we have had many disagreements (Zaun over Molina, it is not Gibbons fault, bunting strategies, lineup changes etc. etc. etc.) but I must admit it does not change my thoughts about your journalistic and broadcasting abilities. After hearing your brief play by play (and also taking into consideration you were thrown into it at a moments notice last night) I thought you did a great job and have a future in it for sure. I especially liked the level of excitement displayed when the jays were hitting in the 9th..good job..
Now back to business…I am very amazed at how many Jays fans rip on Rios. He was an all-star the last 2 years, this year the whole team is struggling and he is part of that. Even to this day I would not trade Rios for Linecum. We have lots of good pitching in the organization and Rios will get back to all-star status. Linecum pitches once every 5 games and Rios is an all-star for years to come who plays every day. People will be back on the Rios bandwagon soon. How many outfielders in this league have made the all-star game the last 2 years (prior to this current) have a canon arm, the potential to steal 40 bases and hit 30+ homers when he gets it back for the deal we got? Like any Rios type player he needs a little more protection to get the power going, not too mention confidence. GET OFF HIS BACK PEOPLE, EVEN IF HE HAD 13 HOMERS THIS YEAR, WHERE WOULD WE BE? A FEW MORE WINS?
MW: Thanks for the compliments, it was a lot of fun stepping in like that. As far as business, I would have traded Rios for Lincecum in December and I’d do it again today - and it has nothing to do with the way he’s hit so far this year. If he had 13 homers, and they’d come at the right time, the Jays might have six or seven more wins. Of course, they may not have made a difference at all.
- MatthewIs Jim Hughson not a much better play by play guy than Jamie Campbell.
MW: I don’t know. I haven’t heard Hughson do a game in 10 years or so, and I’ve never heard Jamie.
- JMHey Mike
Scutaro as the starting shortstop and hitting in the top of the order? He is the 3rd best option, what is Cito thinking?
Actually, since we are not going to contend anyway, I hope we get pounded in the second half for 2 reasons :
1 - If the team played .500-.600 ball for the remainder of the season, management might be convinced changes are not necessary. We need a huge upgrade offensively, and playing .300 the rest of the way would confirm this.
2 - There are some nice prospects available in next years draft. Yeah, its a bit of a crapshoot, but not as much in the top of the draft. Strasburg, Graham or Ackley would look great in a Jays uniform.
Go ahead Cito, keep running Scutaro out there. Lets get Stewart, Wilkerson and Mench a ton of playing time as well. Its time to start planning for 2009 anyhow.
- rickHi, Mike to correct myself it wasn’t the incorrect call on the foul ball that cost the game, but the strike three none call on Longoria,which later resulted in a grand slam that cost the game. The recap of the game on CBC confirmed this, that was a strike that cut the plate in half and was belt high and still called a ball. The homeplate umpire had a bad day. It’s certainly time for the Blue Jays to start hitting so they can win with calls not going their way.
- Mark from HamiltonWould Tampa Bay or the Marlins be interested in Burnett before the trade deadline?
What would it take to get OF Jeremy Hermida? Also, I like OF Josh Willingham on the Marlins, I think he would be a good fit on this Jays team at DH.
I was looking at Jorge Cantu’s stats, and he has been doing a stellar job this season…he was a great pickup by the Marlins.
MW: The Rays might be interested in Burnett, but I don’t think the Marlins would bring him back - because of his history there, but moreso because of his contract. The Marlins might move Hermida for Marcum and Lind.
- FrankyYou will notice my Rios post came 40 minutes ahead of what he just did!! 2 run blast!! If there is 1 thing we can look forward to in the 2nd half is watching Rios get back to form under Cito and Tenace.
- MatthewHey Mike,
So can you answer these questions in the following order…
If you had Hanley Ramirez would you trade him for Linecum?
Do you think Ramirez’s potential is that much greater than Rios (who is HOT today with a homer and a double!!)
I think they are very similar players once the power comes back for Rios.
Also, looks like another 3 run homer for Scutaro (like against NYY) do you think Cito has him in because this team is desparate for power and Scuatro has (sadly) a lot more power than Ecksein (4 to 1 clip hehe)..
MW: No. Yes. And Hanley is a shortstop, which makes his production that much more valuable than if he were a corner outfielder. It would be hard to imagine that Scutaro is in the line-up because of his power.
- Matthewalso, my first trade proposal AJ Burnett and Overbay to Florida for Jacobs..I think he is on hi way to being a 40 hr man, especially in Rogers Centre..19 hr in 290 abs this year, if healthy he would be looking to crack 40 this year
MW: Florida wouldn’t be interested, I don’t think. They don’t want to pick up money.
- Matthewummm. wtf did i just witness.
first and third with one out and you sac bunt the guy from first to second? and now you have two outs?
and you guys think this team loses cause of “bad luck”
MW: Pretty sure that was a missed sign, either by Rolen or McDonald.
- sammy jalalzaii mean u dont even need a hit to score there? that was plain baffling.
- sammy jalalzaimissing signs. thats bush league.
MW: Yeah, it never happens in the major leagues.
- sammy jalalzaiMW: Florida wouldn’t be interested, I don’t think. They don’t want to pick up money.
I was thinking if they wanted to win the world series this year..you may say they cant, but you may have said that twice before when they did win. I think they have a chance to make it out of the NL with the right trade. AJ gives them a dominant NL pitcher, and Overbay gives them a capable, very good defensive 1B
Also, lets not forget Hanley has 16 errors this season and may not get too much better defensively, I agree it is a litle different, but I also think as the years go on Rios will get back to all-star status and Linecum will come back to earth a little as the hitters get used to him (the list I could create here would be endless in terms of examples).
MW: OK, then we disagree about Ramirez, Rios and Lincecum. The two prior years that the Marlins won the World Series they were happy to spend money - this year, not so much. They’re not going to spend $9 million to bring in Burnett and Overbay and give up a cheap, controllable player like Jacobs, Willingham or Hermida.
- Matthewas for the minors mike…just noticed that scott campbell and arencibia each went deep twice today. i seriously think both of these guys has a chance to make the big squad next year.
MW: I think Arencibia might, but it’s not likely. Not out of spring training, anyway.
- sammy jalalzaiMike,
I know there aren’t a lot of options but its confusing as to why Cito keeps putting the team’s worst hitter with RISP in the clean up spot and benches the guy leading the team. Eckstein must have said something awful to Cito to be getting so few at-bats.
Thanks
MW: I’m sure Eckstein didn’t say anything.
- JeffRE: comment 39
Would Terry Ryan be a GM who kept his job after not playing a meaningful game in the last six weeks of the season for his first seven years? He took over in 94 or 95, and his first winning season was 85 wins in 01, if I recall correctly.
Speaking of Ryan, if the Jays do change GM’s would his old assistant Wayne Krivsky be worthy of consideration? His time with the Reds wasn’t exactly a great success, but he probably deserves another chance somewhere. If the Jays are looking for someone with experience instead of trying to pick out a rising star in the executive field, Krivsky and Gerry Hunsicker seem like good people to look at.
As for the manager if Cito leaves, I think the Jays should take a good look at Buck Showalter, as well as Joey Cora with the White Sox and Ron Roenicke with the Angels.
And finally, a sensitive question – Wasn’t Brad Arnsberg fired in Florida in part because of too many injuries to the young pitchers? It seems like the Jays have had more than their share of the young arms go down this year, when does this become a serious concern?
MW: Arnsberg was fired in Florida as part of the housecleaning when Jeff Torborg was fired and Jack McKeon took over. He did have the reputation of riding his young pitchers pretty hard back then, though. But this year, the Jays have had three guys not miss a start, Marcum go down with a minor, short-term strain, and McGowan get hurt badly. I don’t think that’s a lot of pitching injuries. It’s tough to make those abuse arguments with relievers.
- GreyWho do you think is going to get the bigger contract this winter, Burnett or Dempster?
I’d rather have Burnett. I’m not sold on Dempster as a top of the rotation starter. Are you?
MW: No, I’m not. But I’m not sure who’s going to get the bigger contract. If Dempster wins 20 and pitches well in the playoffs (if the Cubs get there), it’ll be him.
- AndyVito Chiarvalotti? How do you spell that, and was he ever called up or did they pass on him as soon as they heard his name was Vito?
MW: Vito Chiaravalotti won the triple crown in Auburn in his first pro year. Never made it.
- Vito From HamiltonMike, I’ll start getting excited about Arencibia when the guy learns how to take a walk. He has absolutely no plate dicipline.
MW: No discipline, either. At least, not in the pros. He walked almost as much as he struck out in college, though.
- AndyMW: Vito Chiaravalotti won the triple crown in Auburn in his first pro year. Never made it.
Thanks Mike. Tough break, although I’ll bet he makes a mean linguini.
- Vito From HamiltonThanks for the stats! So the ‘08 Jays are in fact quite similar to the basement-dwelling ‘04 Blue Jays? We’ve scored more than we’ve allowed this time around, but I assume that the difference in runs lies in the fact that the team has had a few big-scoring wins.
As for today’s game, it was nice to see the home runs and all. I’m not putting up the bunting until we see a lot more than that!
MW: Wow, I didn’t get that from the stats at all. The basement-dwellers of ‘04 couldn’t pitch at all - this team most certainly can. The ‘04 team was outscored by its opponents by a wide, wide margin - this team has outscored its opponents. The ‘04 team won 41.6% of its games - this team has won 49%. Where did you see a similarity?
- reyesI honestly think JP won’t deal anyone at the deadline. His future as the teams GM looks in jeopardy, why would he do anything to improve this team for next year. He will come out and say there was nothing out there better then the two draft picks we will recieve for AJ. Blanton deal proves to me AJ will get back at least two major league ready prospects. The Jays chances of making the playoffs is pretty much nil, and we have about 4 or 5 guys we could be dealing to get back some young talent for the future. Do you think it is best for the team to start gearing up next year, or just try to pull off the impossible this year?
MW: I don’t know about 4 or 5 guys, but I think that if deals are there to be made (with return better than the free agent comp) for Burnett, Eckstein and Zaun, Ricciardi wouldn’t hesitate to do them. How does the Blanton deal prove that Burnett would get back two major-league ready players?
- jason wHey Mike, is JaysTalk available for download via iTunes? I’ve noticed other Fan 590 podcasts listed, but not yours..
MW: As of now, only on the blog.
- A.If (and that seems to be a big if) Hill returns to health, is there any chance they will move him to shortstop and go after a second baseman. Hudson for example, would be a great addition.
MW: It’s a big if, but I doubt this concussion is career-threatening. Maybe season-threatening. I would hope that there’d be a chance they’d move him back to short if it was easier to get an impact second baseman.
- sandySince the Jays need more offence how about trading Rollen, Scutaro, League, Wilkerson & Inglett to CIN for Dunn, Phillips & Encarnacion.
Then Burnett, Overbay, Zaun & Ryan (& or) Rios to ATL for Texiera, Soriano, McCann & prospect.
Sound good or bad for Jays future?
MW: The Reds wouldn’t go near that trade - they’d be dealing the best, second-best and fourth-best players in an 8-player deal. The Braves wouldn’t touch that either, not even close. It all sounds pretty good for the Jays’ future, though.
- DMillsHey Mike
I think everyone would agree that the Jays need to add some more power to contend in 2009. I was looking at the free agents, and there are some interesting guys available. Burrell, Bradley, Ramirez, Teixeira, Dunn, Thome and possibly Griffey (club option for 09). Teixeira would probably be too costly, and he likely ends up with the Yanks. Burrell, has 25 bombs already, but i am nervous over guys who have career years when playing for a contract the following year. Dunn will obviously not be signing with the Jays anytime soon (thanks JP), so that leaves Ramirez, Bradley, Thome and possibly Grif. Of all those guys, i’d love to see Thome or Manny in a Jays uniform.
Two other interesting options. Dallas McPherson has hit 32 home runs in 300 atbats in AAA, while batting 306 with a 404 on-base. The only scary thing is his strikeout rate (115 in 300 atbats). The other guy is of course Barry Bonds, who would come very cheap.
Add two of those guys to the lineup and we could finally be a contender. Of that group, which two or three would you think would be the best fit?
thanks,
MW: McPherson really seems to have turned things around, but he’s not available. Bonds we know won’t happen. I’d love to see Manny and/or Thome here. Two terrific bats, either one of which would help the Jays a ton.
- rickIn reference to Anothony’s Jeter loving posts from the previous blog entry, especially #27, I would submit for your consideration that he really is a Jeter loving moron. As proof I submit that not only does he not know how to spell know correctly, he seems to have problems spelling his own name. Jeter was in no (see the difference?) way the MVP that way and wouldn’t have even been considered if not for the NY hype machine.
On a more pleasant note, great HR Derby, great (if a little long) All-Star game, let’s get ready for the rest of the season
Jeter Should of been the MVP because he was the best player in the AL in 06. It had nothing to do with the NY hype machine. I can’t spell but I know alot more about baseball then you do dink.
MW: I guess I’ll let you get away with the insult because I let the other guy do it, too. Work on your spelling, though.
- AnothonyHey Mike
A lot of people have suggested upgrades at Short and Catcher in the offseason. Looking at the available talent, it likely won’t happen.
Available behind the plate are Kendall, Barrett, Olivo, Ross, LoDuca, Estrada, I-Rodriguez, Varitek, Zaun and Barajas. Not a stellar crop. The Jays pick up the option on Barajas, but who else do they sign? Maybe Ross?
At Short, the only guys that would be considered an upgrade would be Orlando Cabrera and Furcal. But they won’t come cheap. The next best available free agent is Eckstein.
I have been a JP basher no doubt, but i won’t be blaming him if we don’t upgrade at these two positions, there just isn’t much talent available.
If healthy, maybe the best option is to move Hill to Short and sign Orlando Hudson. Would it be fair to say that Hill would likely be better defensively than Eckstein or Scutaro?
thanks,
MW: There’s no question that Hill, if healthy, would be better defensively than Eckstein or Scutaro. But free agency isn’t the only way to change the roster over the off-season.
- rick‘MW: Wow, I didn’t get that from the stats at all. The basement-dwellers of ‘04 couldn’t pitch at all - this team most certainly can. The ‘04 team was outscored by its opponents by a wide, wide margin - this team has outscored its opponents. The ‘04 team won 41.6% of its games - this team has won 49%. Where did you see a similarity?’
All that is true. However the ‘04 version hit better overall and better with RISP. They weren’t great. But they were better than this club. We have won more games this year, but I think that’s down to good pitching beating good hitting. Neither version of the club hit for power.
I wasn’t trying to prove that we were destined to finish last, but it does strike me that there are some similarities there. There are two major differences: the pitching staff and the payroll.
You said somewhere here in a post that hitters aren’t hard to find. But where can we find one right now? You’ve discussed many times what’s out there for next year. But unless I’ve missed it, which is certainly highly possible, you haven’t said who you think we stand a chance of getting this year.
MW: Because they’re not looking to go outside the organization to improve the hitting this year. Why give up an asset to get a quick fix when they’re going to finish up the track anyway?
- reyes“DH has to be upgraded, for sure, but those guys seem to be relatively easy to find.”
Which begs an obvious question: Why hasn’t Ricciardi found one?
I love Stairsy as much as the next guy but at the moment putting either he or Wilkerson in the lineup is almost to concede two outs.
Stairs is batting .197/.322/.315 (Thomas was batting .167/.306/.333 over 16 games and was cut … Stairs’ slump is almost three times as many games) since mid-May and averaging a strikeout per game. Wilkerson’s last 30 games have been good for a .188/.333/.266 yet that was our 4-5 spots in the batting order against the Yankees July 12.
Why Ricciardi doesn’t realize that other than a little defense he’s getting almost zero value from two roster spots–neither is making much money so neither represent a significant sunk cost.
I cannot fathom why J.P. doesn’t at least plug these spots from within the organization. Even if the call-ups produced no better at the plate, they would at least have more options defensively and would get valuable experience. Without Stairs available Gaston may be inclined to try other options at cleanup (where Matt has batted in five of the last six games and hit .125/.263/.375 with 8 K while doing so).
Obviously, the Jays chances to compete this year are slim and the window of opportunity to upgrade is closing yet Ricciardi isn’t even willing to try tinkering from within when he has one player that was released from the worst (or close to it) offensive team in the AL for a lack of production and a player whose age and prolonged slump are decent indicators that the end of the line has been reached yet no action is taken.
To me, Ricciardi’s biggest mistake is that he’s unilaterally driven up his costs of acquiring offense. As the season has gone on and the Jays’ needs been too obvious to ignore, other GM’s know how desperate J.P. is to pick up a bat and would set their price accordingly. Had Ricciardi opted to do something earlier when it was obvious that the Jays were struggling–but not necessarily as desperate–other GM’s leverage would be reduced somewhat.
Ricciardi has created other team’s leverage for them.
Is this the reason why he has been unable to even find a league average (.247/.334/.420; 13 HR) DH?
If that’s the case—then why not take a flyer on someone within the organization?
However, the fact that Ricciardi has done nothing is a damning indictment of how he manages the 25-man roster. Ideally, you want your 25 best organizational options (accounting for injuries) to be on the major league club—if that is what the Jays have now on the parent club then the organization is in abysmal condition and the person responsible for it must be held accountable.
What’s holding Ricciardi back from finding a DH? Money is not an issue insofar as the costs of Wilkerson and Stairs are concerned; he has two potential roster spots he can make available if he wants to cobble together a platoon yet J.P. sticks doggedly to the status quo.
I wonder if J.P. realizes that this club and his inaction in the face of easily identifiable problems and a solution that you refer to as being “relatively easy” to remedy (insofar as finding a DH goes) goes on his de facto résumé.
Would Lind even be on the parent club had not Gaston taken over? The left field issue was solved for him if Gaston was the big reason he was promoted—he cannot expect the DH problem to be resolved in a similar manner.
Best Regards
John
MW: You make a lot of sense, and I don’t disagree (after all, I was the one who said that DH is pretty easy to upgrade). Here’s what I think is going on: Once Thomas was released (I assume that’s the player to whom you’re referring above, and not Richie Sexson), they handed the job to Stairs, who hasn’t done it. But while he was busy not doing it, the Jays started winning, and the urgency wasn’t as great - they could afford to let him hit his way out of it. Once June happened, they could have made a move, but I don’t think there was a market yet, and once the end of June happened, the Jays were so far up the track that they had reached that zone in which J.P. felt he had to wait for the team to start playing better, showing him that an acquisition would really help. I’m not saying I agree, I’m just saying that’s what I think his thought-process was. None of that is to say that a move from within the organization wasn’t available to be made, but to what question is Buck Coats the answer? Also, I don’t get why having Stairs OR Wilkerson in the line-up is conceding two outs.
- John B.I know what you mean..He was standing above the ball..However, it couldn’t have been more then a hair over the line either way..The umpire was in a good position too..He was standing right on the line..He can only make the call that he sees from his angle..Usually the first impression you get when you watch a replay is the right one..My first impression of the camera angle in which I saw the play, the ball looked fair..
MW: From my impression, it looked fair, too, but Halladay was the closest to the ball.
- gump“Also, I don’t get why having Stairs OR Wilkerson in the line-up is conceding two outs.”
I wasn’t being literal since I don’t think you concede an out in the cleanup spot. It’s just that they have a pretty good idea at this point that the chances of Stairs and Wilkerson having a major offensive outburst is minimal and chances are good that the best they’ll get is maybe a base hit or a walk.
Their numbers are more characteristic of bottom of the order hitters and not key bats in a contending lineup.
If you’re going to run those kinds of numbers out there, then the organization might be better off letting guys with a future take their cuts rather than players with a past.
Let’s face it, .197/.322/.315 and .188/.333/.266 are the lines for decent hitting pitchers but no manager is expecting major production from that, plus the AL created the DH so guys with those kinds of numbers don’t have to take their cuts.
Heck, would you have them DH over Carlos Zambrano .351/.351/.526, Mark Hendrickson .273/.294/.394, Brendan Looper .343/.410/.429, Brandon Backe .323/.382/.484, Micah Owings .275/.339/.373 and Jake Peavy .286/.323/.357?
Heh (just a little hyperbole since it’s less destructive than throwing things in frustration).
Anyway, thanks for the possible explanation—it makes sense. Still, Ricciardi had to bear in mind that the status quo may have made the players wonder how serious J.P. is about 2008. I’m guessing the pitching staff might have appreciated another bat sooner rather than later and importing a hot stick could have taken some of the pressure off the rest of the lineup since it seems to me they’re squeezing their bats tighter than Carl Pohlad with a dollar bill when a big hit is needed.
They’re abysmal in the seventh inning or later with men on second and third/none out and bases loaded/none out.
Most recently, in the 9-4 win against the Rays, they loaded the bases with none out in the seventh inning and the two runs came in on a bases loaded walk and sac fly—their numbers in that situation are flat out awful (bases loaded/men on second and third—none out in the seventh inning or later)—only in a game where they were down 9-1 in the ninth to Baltimore and 6-0 to the Rays did they really capitalize in a big way. Generally they get what few runs they garner in that situation with walks, errors, wild pitches and sac hits.
This year, they had that situation 14 times and in the other 12 (bases loaded/men on second and third—none out in the seventh inning or later—often in close games) opportunities they had bases loaded, none out eight times and came away with five runs—three on walks, two on a sac flies—and hit into three double plays. On four occasions with second and third, none out they came away with four runs—two on sac flies, two on groundouts and went 0-fer (with the sacs juiced/second and third and none out). Again, the only significant production where base hits were struck was in games where they were down by six or more runs in the final inning.
Ouch.
Anyway, I’ll be working the Friday game against Seattle so I’ll probably pop my head in and say a quick hello (not to worry, I’m nowhere near this verbose in person)—you’ll recognize me, I’ll be the ugliest guy in the press area.
Best Regards
John
- John B.