12:25 AM Eastern
Boy, that Cito Gaston sure got the bats going, didn’t he? The Blue Jays are such a sad-sack squad this season that they can’t even get the “win the first game with a new manager” thing right!
At least Gaston got a chance to observe just how dysfunctional this offense is up close and personal-like. Now he can see what he wants to do to try to fix it, because I’m sure he believes he can. I wish him the best of luck, but I think it has to come from the players.
This is going to be short, because it’s been an awfully long day.
Three things jumped out at me in this game:
-Alex Rios played really, really well. It might have been his best game of the season. I’m not sure if it was because of the managerial change (he couldn’t have had anything against Gibbons, could he? Gibby left him in a top-three spot in the line-up throughout his struggles and rarely sat him, right up until Thursday) or because he was so embarrassed by the Prince Fielder inside-the-parker, but wow. A sliding catch, a perfect throw to nail a runner at the plate (and Barajas held on to it!!!!!!!) and two doubles.
-Cito brought B.J. Ryan in in the 11th with a runner on base and nobody out. I can’t remember the last time that Ryan has come in without having a clean inning to work with, though it did happen quite a bit in 2006. Good for him for going to the big guy when he needed him.
-Scott Downs got to pitch two innings, the 8th and 9th – there’s Cito showing confidence in his relievers and letting them stay out there if they deserve it.
Nyjer Morgan’s line drive off of Roy Halladay’s skull was scary as hell. Originally, I thought it hit him in the right shoulder, which was frightening enough, but on the replay, a direct hit to the side of the head – wow. The fact that he kept his feet and was able to walk off the field unaided amazed me. The Jays say he shouldn’t miss his next start, which is scheduled for Thursday against Adam Dunn and the Reds, but they also said that Aaron Hill would probably only miss two or three games with the concussion he suffered last month. Two things about head injuries: You never know, and you don’t mess around with them.
Lastly, to revive a great Toronto tradition from 1989-1997, let the second-guessing of Cito begin! I say that mainly tongue-in-cheek, because the guy never got a break, even when the team was winning division titles and World Series Championships on a regular basis. Then again, why wouldn’t he pinch-run for Matt Stairs in the 10th?
Here’s tonight’s edition of The JaysTalk:
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
Comments are encouraged, as always, The 24/7 JaysTalk rocks on into the Cito Gaston era II.
Click here to subscribe to Wilner's blog
Leaving Stairs in was strange. I also thought pulling Carlson for Frasor was a mistake.
I’ve got another Cito second guess:
Why the hell would he pinch run Wilkerson for Overbay in the 6th inning or whatever it was. I mean how much faster is Wilkerson that Overbay and why lose Lyle’s bat? Unless he’s working on Lyle’s head.
MW: I didn’t think pulling Carlson for Frasor was a bad move at all. Carlson has been pretty poor lately. Wilkerson is signficantly faster than Overbay, and still a decent glove at first – it was the 8th inning.
- ChrisLe plus que ca rest le meme.
French Immersion, woot!
So, Mike, I remember when Frank Thomas left the Jays, you told us that a few of the guys in the clubhouse were not too fond of him. Now that Gibbons is gone, I would just like to know if any current Blue Jays had any problems with him.
MW: As far as I know, everybody loved him. Although the way Rios played last night, relative to the first 74 games, raises an eyebrow. I put it more to his embarrassment about Thursday, though.
- JasonWhat does it matter anyways? 12-24 doesn’t help anything! This team needs a shakeup
MW: This team needs a shake-up? What do you call yesterday?
- D.A. WeinbrignHoly hell, the ball hit doc so hard it went perfectly off his head into the glove of Rolen, my god. That just defies logic, how does a guy stay concious after somethhing like that? It’s frustrating that continues to be one of the unluckies players in baseball, and gets labelled as “injury prone”. This is just getting ridicolous now. In 05, Mench, 07 appendactomy, and now this.
MW: We’ll see what kind of effect this has. If Halladay can pitch Thursday and actually perform, he’s a monster.
- TerryWas Halladay’s hat made out of this stuff?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDeJ7rLUYU&feature=related\’
MW: Maybe his face is made out of it, the ball didn’t hit him in the cap.
- JasonTonight on the post game show I heard numerous comments defending Gibbons, saying it was wrong to fire him because – as each caller pointed out in unison – “it’s not his fault, he’s not responsible for the team’s poor performance with the bats.”
How asinine is that? If that was put into practice, we’d have coaches-for-life, replaced only when the manager dies. Moreover, Gibbons wouldn’t have been manager if the pervious one handn’t been fired first. Was Tosca responsible for offensive/pitching woes and ultimately the team’s poor performance?
What we have here is people applying double standards, using phony arguments to defend people they like while using the same arguments to justify the dismissal of those they dislike.
Sometimes change is good. Although I will miss Gibbons’ John Wayne-esque sauntering out to the mound. And I’m not sure Cito was the right choice to replace him, either. You replace one laid back, indifferent manager with another. How does that make any sense?
MW: Tosca was fired because his management of the pitching staff was terrible, and the clubhouse had turned against him. It wasn’t, in fact, Gibbons’ fault that the offense didn’t produce. All he can do is put the players into the best positions to succeed and hope they do. They didn’t. I don’t see either Gibby or Cito as indifferent.
- Jean TennisAdam Lind is up and I do believe he will be the saviour of this team.
MW: Who told you Adam Lind was up?
- JohnI understand that Cito has not been given a long term contract.
Is there any possiblity of having Pat Hentgen assume the role of manager in the off season? Would he be interested? I think he would make a great manager! He is my all-time favourite player begins. Not the greatest pitcher in his day but one who gave it his all. In fact, as a result, he blew out his arm too soon. Being modest in stature can do that when you throw 250+ innings in 3 consecutive seasons. He was not a big, burly guy.
What I loved about Hentgen is that he always took responsibility when he was the reason they lost (which was rare). in fact, I remember a game he pitched in 1997 at Fenway where he absolutely stunk, giving up 10 runs in the first 3 innings or so in that game. He told Cito that he wanted to stay out there because the bullpen had been overworked the night before in that series with the Bosox. He took it on the chin for the team.
But the best part came in the clubhouse after the game when Hentgen snapped at reporters who were hassling other players when he said, “Talk to me! I’m to blame! We lost because of ME!”
Boy, wouldn’t you love that kind of brutal honestly and contrition from this current crop of players?
Anyway, does anyone know if Hentgen would be interested? He lives just down the road, so to speak.
MW: I’m sure Hentgen would be interested, but the next full-time Jays manager won’t be a rookie. Greatness as a player, attitudinally or otherwise, doesn’t necessarily translate to greatness as a manager. Hentgen has exactly ZERO experience as a manager, or even as a full-time coach of professional ballplayers. Major-League Manager isn’t an entry-level position.
- Hentgen for ManagerDoc mouthing the words ‘what happened’ to Barajas once he staggered back to his feet said it all. Doc’s a tough sob ain’t he?..walking off under his own steam like that…
MW: That he is.
- AndyJP has lost his mind or he was never the GM I thought he was. I thought JP was the anti-Richard Griffin. I am now convinced they are the same guy.
- Jim BFirst he dismisses Adam Dunn because of batting average, strikeouts, and attitude. He ignores his incredible OPS then admits the next day that he doesn’t even know Adam Dunn after telling the fans that he has some inside knowledge about his passion for the game (nevermind he never misses a game).
Now he brings in Cito who had problems managing a great team! A team that batted Devon White at leadoff (.303 OBA in ’92) and hit Joe Carter in the three hole. We won those World Series IN SPITE of Cito. Remember what happened when he was given an average team?
What GM’s are available? Will Dombrowski be available after this season? Might as well talk to Gillick!
Hello Mike,
I diagnosed you with the Stockholm Syndrome a couple of days ago, and you gave a pretty good defence against that one. Also about Lyle Overbay, although even in those two good years he wasn’t anywhere near the prototypical superstar first basemen who either have incredible power numbers (Jeff Bagwell, Mo Vaughn, Carlos Delgado) or were just great hitters (Rod Carew,Tony Gwynn, Todd Helton, etc.) I don’t know if anyone has ever kept stats on this (there should be one), but Overbay’s rally-killing-double-play numbers this year are truly astonishing. So I’ll give you this: he’s a very mediocre first baseman in his early thirties who has had two good years in his career.
I do, however, have to take a gargantuan issue with your response to my challenge of finding a GM whose teams didn’t contend for 7 years, wasn’t fired and ended up winning: Pat Gillick? Come on! First of all, the Blue Jays became a contender in his 6th year (he was Assistant GM in 1977) in 1983. They were in the pennant race until a late August trip to Baltimore, the site of what had to be the weirdest game in the history of baseball when Tippy Martinez picked off 3 Jays in the same inning, allowing Len Sakata (yeah, him) to hit a winning homer in extra innings. If the wild card format had existed then, the Jays would have been in the race until the last weekend in 1983 and would have made it in 1984. Pat Gillick’s teams consistently progressed during those years, as he was assembling more and more talented players via the farm system. (Please don’t nitpick by pointing out they regressed in 1981.) There is nothing like that happening under Ricciardi. I don’t care about what he says about Adam Dunn or Gil Meche, or even about his patronizing attitude towards fans in Toronto. Win, baby, win! And he simply hasn’t done that. In fact, Ricciardi’s teams have been remarkably consistent in their mediocrity. Here’s is a stat that almost boggles the mind: in 2001, the year before Ricciardi arrived, the Jays record was 80-82, i.e. .4938 winning percentage. In the 7 years under him, they’re 516-530, or .4933, with very small deviation from year to year. I know about all the excuses — cutting the payroll in the early years, players underachieving this year, etc. I am not saying Ricciardi has been awful. I’m saying that after 7 years, we deserve better than mediocre. Especially, since you’ve mentioned Pat Gillick. By the way, my 7-year challenge still stands.
Alex
P.S. Gord Ash did spend 7 years as the Toronto GM. If the Jays somehow manage to go 25-45 over the next 70 games, and Ricciardi gets fired the following day, his career record as the Jays GM will be 541-575. EXACTLY, Gord Ash’s numbers in Toronto…
MW: That would be crazy – but you won’t accept the “excuse” that Ash was handed a two-time World Series Champion and Ricciardi was handed a mess and immediately told to cut the payroll almost in half. The Jays have had seasons under Ricciardi where they have contended almost as much as the ’83 Jays and as much as the ’84 club. The fact that those teams would have been in the wild card race is irrelevant – there wasn’t a wild card then.
- Alexhey mike,
You said Gaston will be fired if he crosses Ricciardi to that one callers question. I guarantee that cito will not be fired under any circumstance unless he take part in some criminal activity.
MW: I would think that assaulting one’s boss would suffice.
- AndrewMike,
From reading your blog and listening to you on the air, it is clear that you had absolutely no idea that Cito was going to be named manager or was even in consideration for the job. For that matter, neither did Jordan at mlb.com, Bob “McClown” or anyone else in the Toronto media. Everyone was taken totally by surprise and anyone who says they saw this coming is a liar.
My question is, in this day and age of information, how could something like this be kept a complete secret??? You would think it would leak out at some point. I know you journalists pride yourselves on being well informed, but it is always funny when you are caught with your pants down.
MW: I don’t think any journalists were caught with their pants down, I think that the Jays’ front office managed to keep a secret without leaking anything.
- Richwow, i thought i was having flashbacks earlier in the season while watching Armando Benetiz vs. Troy Percival.
Welcome back Cito et al.
Bye-bye Gibby, I’ll miss ya. Seriously. You got a bum rap, but such is the wont of your profession.
We are all so lucky that we didn’t witness a major catastrophe on the hill today.
- fat bottom girlsMike,
I looked at the Fan590 homepage on Friday afternoon and in the Hot Audio section I saw a clip labeled, and I quote, “Media Conference Announcing Gaston As New Coach”. Then, I checked back a few hours later and the name of the clip had been corrected to, “Media Conference Announcing Gaston As New Manager”.
Mike, I can understand when a bunch of bonehead callers call your show and refer to the manager as the coach, because they are all hockey-fied Canadians and know nothing about baseball. However, I hold your station (and your station’s website) to a higher standard.
Your station is ALL SPORTS! That means that the people there should be knowledgeable about sports. However, someone working for the website clearly thinks that managers are called coaches. Who is the person responsible for labeling the clips and who noticed the mistake? Was it you?
On the Jays broadcasts, before Jerry goes to commercial, he should say, “You’re listening to Blue Jays baseball on the FAN radio network, and they are called managers in baseball, not coaches.”
MW: It was a bad mistake. I hold us to a higher standard, too. I wasn’t the one who caught it, I wasn’t online yesterday afternoon.
- MarkNext Friday’s flashback friday game at the dome should be nostalgic if anything. Braves vs Jays. Cox vs Gaston. The more things change…
- mattWhy wouldn’t he pinch run for Stairs?
Good question, although I wonder if he looked down on the bench and went “Hey, where is everybody?” only to hear “You’ve got seven relief pitchers. Seven! And four of them are left-handed!”
This is worth watching by the way – Gaston managed most of his career with 5, sometimes 6 guys in the pen. The only year he used a true LOOGY in his pen was Plesac in his final season. His LH relievers before that, mainly MacDonald and Castillo, were used like…, well, like regular relief pitchers!
- Daniel McIlroyHey, Mike. I’m intrigued by your comment that this move has Paul Godfrey’s name all over it. I think that may apply to many of the moves that the Jays have made over the last couple of years. True or False: If Billy Beane had been running this team, he would have traded Wells, Rios (OK, JP did try to trade Rios), Hill, maybe even Halladay. Could all of those signings have come from Godfrey? I think that Godfrey is the classic fan acing as president and that he thinks of the fans too much when making recommendations to JP. Please tell me what you think.
MW: I think Beane might have traded Wells, but none of the others. And remember too, Beane is being forced to work with a vastly different payroll, so his decisions might have been different.
- nickI’ve just caught up with John Gibbon’s conference call, what a classy guy!
Mike do you think there is any danger J.P. will have 2nd thoughts about continuing on with wednesday’s with J.P. from now on?
MW: I can’t believe he came on this week, given that he knew he was going to have to pull the plug on Gibby and a bunch of coaches 36 hours later.
- ukJayCito may or may not make a difference. I like him and I liked how he managed, but I’m not expecting an ’85-like turnaround. That being said, the fans mainly like him and having the crew back from ’92/3 is a move calculated to appease an increasingly furious home crowd who have had enough.
Now to my favourite goat, Ricciardi: according to the G&M this morning, he came to Godfrey and suggested that Gibbons be fired and Gaston should take over. Godfrey readily agreed. I think that’s bs. I’ll tell you why. Bringing together a bunch like this takes more than 48 hours. We don’t just have Gaston, we have his whole team. Gaston is still close to the Jays front office. I don’t see how any call could have been made to him without checking with Godfrey etc beforehand. No way Ricciardi raises the idea on Tuesday, gets the go-ahead, makes the call, and gets the whole thing in place by Thursday, Ergo this is a bit of face-saving by Godfrey on behalf of JP. And I think that face-saving will only go so far. All the chatter I’ve seen on blogs etc this morning suggests that the fans are still baying for Ricciardi’s head on a platter, and Godfrey will give it to them as soon as he finds a credible replacement. That might take some time, hence the ‘Ricciardi came to me and suggested Gaston’ quote, to back everyone off until they find the right candidate for the job.
MW: I actually think Godfrey said Ricciardi came to him in order to quiet those who would argue that he himself is overstepping by getting too deep into the baseball ops side.
- reyesAfter a disappointing game like that I think it’s obviously time to think about firing Cito. He’s been the manager for a game and a third and they haven’t scored a single run yet. I say the Jays keep firing managers until they win a game.
I wonder if they could get Jimy Williams back…
- Matthew EHi Mike,
I think this Cito, Gene Tennis move etc. was just a PR move. I think we need to change our two year BELIEF that we have a great offense. Our line up night after night is filled with about four “has beens” and all those other guys would be subs or second stringers on most other clubs. So we are scoring about as many runs as is to be expected with this line-up. The next two years look as bleak as the economy.
I’m not sure what JP and Godfrey can do at the drawing board. Many of those players are signed to long-term contracts and nobody else will
want them.
MW: I’d answer, but the fact that you feel as though this team is scoring as many runs as is to be expected shows me you’re speaking only out of frustration.
- Grant LaryMaybe its just me, but does Cito look really weird wearing this newfangled team gear? They should let him just wear the same jacket he wore in ’93. Maybe it can rub off or something.
Also, when does Rios finally hit a homer? This series? Next homestand? September? Never?
- Aubrey“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”
That’s what I thought your headline would be. It’s sad to see the old group go, particularly Whitt. I guess J.P. didn’t want him sniffing around the G.M. job. I think it’s fitting that three out of the four new coaches are experienced hitting coaches. I don’t think it will benefit the hitters much but hope springs eternal.
The injury to Doc got me thinking, what if the coaching changes came just as things start to go from bad to worse? We all beleive this team has to turn it around to some extent but we haven’t really mentioned that other possibility. There would be a lot of new faces next year if that happens.
It’s nice to see Cito and his crew, but he’s not getting a free pass from this fan based on what he did in the last millenium.
MW: Please tell me you were kidding with that Whitt comment. Please.
- MattHello Mike
Its kind of sad that Rios’ “best game of the season” came in a game where he still looked quite terrible in his last two at-bats…..(fouled out weakly in the 8th and struck out swinging at an awful eye-high fastball in the 11th, both at-bats with runners on….no, I don’t expect a 5-5 night every time and two doubles are encouraging (in addition to the strong throw)…but I don’t think he’s “out of the woods” yet….
MW: Who said he was out of the woods?
- SamMike, as I said to you in early Jan. 2008, JP NEEDS to go. I never heard back from you. It’s about time that Gibbons was fired. He may be the nicest guy but the results speak for themselves.
JP’s performance has been horrible and his constant use of the “injuries” excuse does not cut it. It need should have been tolerated as long as it did.
Glad to see that Mr. Godfrey made some moves with more moves hopefully expected soon.
Mike, hopefully you’ll realize what most fans have been saying – that JP has done a poor job and say it publicly instead of constantly defending him.
Let’s move on and start trying to rebuild this team into a class and winning team 1992 and 1993.
I look forward to your comments.
Thanks
Adrian
MW: I don’t think J.P. has done a poor job. At all.
- AdrianRe your comment: “I still don’t see why they now have a better chance than they did yesterday.” I understand your point; the line-up is the same. But it seems that the brain trust agreed that the team had fallen into a malaise that might — might, not will — be broken with a new manager etc.
On your other comment that callers / bloggers will now shift to debating when to fire JPR, it seems you’re right. People should give it a rest because it’s clear that nothing will happen on that front until the end of the season, and decisions will be based on the outlook at that time. That is the only rational approach because dumping a GM mid-season only makes sense if you’re the Leafs. There was reason to believe that JPR had put together a pretty good line-up for last year and this year. Unfortunately it hasn’t panned out yet.
- JohnHere is what should have happened, and what we can do about it.
Clearly Gibby took the fall for JP. In lieu of the left feild fiasco, Thomas fiasco, Dunn fiasco etc JP has tarnished the team in the eyes of the baseball world (I can’t remember espn and si ever talking about the jays so much)
JP should have been fired. Gibby should have been allowed to finsih the season, and not be brought back. Cito is a good guy but he will not be able to get us in the playoffs, no person or thing can. The problem is that are personal moves, that will have impact on future teams are still in the hands of a clown who has proven poor judgement in more areas then I can count. The new GM (and there will be one no doubt) will want his own manager so why bring in Cito and his possee for a few months?
We need to start making smart decissions on personnel and payroll RIGHT NOW, Godfrey sadly has this important role intrusted in the hands of a clown (who seems to be a bit of a liar liar pants on fire type as well).
Here is what we can do. Get some of those little red balls on the string that they use for the nose of a clown. Hand then out at the upcomming Reds game and for the first pitch everyone put them on. This will make the highlight reels everywhere and if we persist it could force Rogers hands.
Truth is, the worm has turned on JP this week. Godfrey fired the wrong guy?
MW: Left field fiasco? There is one thing that can get the Jays into the playoffs, by the way. They could start to hit.
- wayneSo basically David Eckstine cost us that game. Macdonald made the error because he was not in his grove. He did so well last yesr cause he was playing everyday. He had no fear of making a mistake cause he new his job was not on the line. He gets rusty he cant play every 5th day and expect to perform at his best. Im so glad Gibbons is gone and Gaston is in we needed a change. Now lets turn this season around GO JAYS!!!!!
MW: David Eckstein cost the Jays that game as much as Josh Towers did.
- PaulI was hit on the cheekbone while playing field hockey where the ball is a bit harder than a baseball. It hurts like hell but thankfully I didnt break the bone. I was up and running in three days. Hope same is the case with Doc. But skull is a different business, so I am kinda scared for my fav. player.
I asked this question two days ago and when I last checked you had not answered it.. Grady Sizemore’s batting average is .267 and he has hit 17 HRs(on pace for 40 HRs). Why is he still leading off? And do you see him coming in at the 3rd or 4th spot in the near future? I think that’s where he belongs.
MW: I do, too, but there’s something to be said for a player’s comfort. Sounds like intangible weirdness, I know, but some players will tell you that they’re more comfortable in one spot than another. Shannon Stewart did it with the Jays in the early ’00s, Hanley Ramirez did it with the Marlins, and Grady Sizemore did it with the Indians. They moved him down to the three-hole last year when Kenny Lofton came over, bit not for long.
- BeburgJust discovered your blog, but have been a constant listener over to the post-game show over the years. In many cases I find you to be the voice of reason (re the importance of the batting coach, not being Gibboons’ fault etc.), however lately I find your unrelenting defence of the GM increasingly misplaced. MUST get the following off my chest:
- You seem charmed by Overbay’s on base %; in my time first basemen were paid to hit for power and drive in runs – guess thingshave changed; not impressed when Lyle coaxes a walk from a wild pitcher and “passes the baton” to the likes of Scutero, Zaun and Eckstein
- Still shaking my head over your comment that “Greg Zaun has a track record as a superior offensive player” – guess it depends on your definition of “superior”
– AGREED (at least this year) – A.J. Burnett is NOT a .500 pitcher )but then wins and losses don’t mean that much for a pitcher (neither, apparently, does E.R.A., so I’m puzzled as to what you think DOES matter), and he IS playing for a bad team, we can agree on that
- Zaunie’s better than Jason Varitek – Hmmmm
- J.P. got the jump on the Cards in the Rolen/Glaus deal; not sure St. Louis fans would admit to that
- Remember last spring training you commented that you thought [MGowan] would never pitch for the Jays because they’d messed him up too much (think it was because they were jerking him up and down from the minors)
- That, and the fact that Marcum was in the bullpen, doesn’t jive with your recent comment that J.P. brought in that gaggle of retreads to kill time until the Mand M boys were ready (certainly don’t think Marcum was mentioned as being a future starter). But better lucky than good.
– Ryan and Wells are going to drag the payroll for the next two or three years – Jays may start to cry poor again
- Far as I can tell in 7 years J.P. has developed i major league position player – Hill; and one starting pitcher (unintentionally) – Marcum. And I KNOW about that great Overbay trade…
- Catching, shortstop, and leftfield ahve been constant weaknesses
- Suspect Adam Lind is not going to be an impact player – would have been in majors sooner than this if he was going to be one
- Believe it or not, enjoy your show, but can’t resist a final shot:
- Will J.P. be , mercifully, relieved of his duties before he locks up Zaunie with a five year contract?
-
- KenMW: I’m not going to address every point, because then I’d match your novella with one of my own, but thanks for finally discovering the ol’ blergaroo. Overbay, believe it or not, is tied for the team lead in RBIs, so he’s driving in as many runs as anyone on the team. He’s also second on the club in extra-base hits. But I don’t believe that first basemen need to hit 30+ homers. There’s no question that over his career, Gregg Zaun has been a superior offensive player to Rod Barajas. And yes, J.P. will be fired LONG before he gives Zaun a five-year deal.
Hey Mike. Since you don’t think that firing Gibbons was a justified decision, then when is it the right decision to fire a manager(lets forget about Billy Martin for this question). I’m only asking because no one else did on Jaystalk and I know you think firing Gibby was the wrong move… or maybe just morally.
MW: That question has been answered several times on the blog.
- Matt from BCI don’t think it comes as a surprise that the offence hasn’t come out of its coma with a new skipper because obviously that wasn’t the problem but I do understand something had to be done and if things don’t change that JP will be soon to follow Gibby out the door.
It was nice to actually see Rios drive the ball for a change, but the homer-less streak continues. I would like to seem them try bringing up a kid who is doing well in AAA or even AA? Heck, its worked out well with Litsch so far. Lind is hitting .328 in AAA. He wouldn’t solve their hitting woes but it wouldn’t hurt
MW: He’s up now, so we’ll see.
- Daveafter last night there is absolutely no chance that Roy’s head hurts more than mine and i made it to work…to read wilner blogs…and stare at my fantasy roster…no blinking
CMON JAYS TURN IT AROUND
MW: I don’t know why anyone would complain about reading a blog. Is someone forcing you to read it? You don’t have to, you know.
- slobberfaceMike
When you layer paint onto rust, without resolving the underlying problem, the rust will inevitably rise to the surface once again. You can paint every year, layer upon layer but still; the rust returns; the same “Jay’s Rust” that bubbles up every year. This year is no exception.
To give credit, Ricciardi has delivered a great talent pool to this town. However, the Jays, like many organizations, can fail for reasons unrelated to pure talent. Firing Gibbons and the coaching staff will likely have little real consequence. Hiring Cito and the old guard is a prettier and more hopeful paint, with a tint of winning ways but it’s still just paint. We saw that last night…new field staff does not guarantee a win. “La Plus Ca Change.” Things will always stay the same until the underlying problem is fixed.
In my opinion, the rust is actually, the lack of a certain leadership quality at the GM level; the type of leadership that aligns an entire organization, to the common purpose of winning; the type of leadership that creates, fosters and sustains an organizational culture characterized by winning. In private and public organizations, it is the leading reason for lack of productivity and success and I believe it applies to these Jays as well. Yes, idealistic but absolutely true!
I hate to say this but the time has come for Ricciardi to yield to another leader that is more capable at taking this talented Jays organization and getting them to row together in a winning direction and with a shared purpose.
If that doesn’t work then we have to ask, “If Ricciardi wasn’t the true leader then will the real leader please stand out?”
MW: Idealistic indeed, but completely based on your opinion, and therefore in no way “absolutely true”. So what you’re saying is that Ricciardi has assembled a great pool of talent, but hasn’t taught them to win?
- Don LajoieHi Mike,
This Jays team has really been frustrating. I agree that it’s not JP’s fault and neither was it Gibby’s. But what action should be taken in your opinion? How do you see the survival of MLB here in Canada just by the way things are going? Because it’s also disappointing seeing what’s going on.
Ali
MW: The only action that can be taken is for the hitters to start to hit. If they don’t, a housecleaning must be attempted over the off-season (starting in July of this year with people like Burnett, Eckstein, Zaun, Barajas, even Rolen), but it’s going to be tough to deal people like Wells, Overbay and Hill and get fair return – again, if this continues. I see no issue with the survival of MLB in Canada. This year’s attendance will be higher than last year’s, and the Jays TV ratings regularly beat the hell out of the Raptors’.
- Ali MoosaHey Wilner, I was refreshing your blog for a while yesterday waiting for your comments on Cito & Co. Sorry to hear about your loss, it’s the real stuff that matters.
Riccardi has lost control of the team and Godfrey is now trying to deflect the focus to get us all warm and fuzzy again just like the politician he is. Wouldn’t suprise me to see reruns of Jay World Series games on the screens instead of the live game in weeks to come.
Godfrey has to go.
Riccardi by contamination has to go (back to Boston where he really would rather be).
This season is pooched. Ted Rogers has to clear the attic and bring in a new Management team before the reconstruction can begin.
PS: and Wilner, who’d of thought I’d be looking at your blog for your opinion yesterday…I DID’T EVEN LIKE BASEBALL! Congratulations.
MW: Thanks! Ricciardi could have gone to Boston in 2002 when the Red Sox were looking if that was where he REALLY wanted to be. Why do you think he’s lost control of the team? And what do you mean by control?
- George in Port DoverHi Mike. Plenty of managerial moves this week, but I’m still holding my breath to see what difference that will make.
But, that being said, major league baseball is in the entertainment business. As long as you are putting an entertaining product on the field, people will pay whatever you ask to see it.
Under that same philosophy, I’ve always wondered why the Jays haven’t played a guy like John McDonald more often. He hits/he doesn’t hit – doesn’t really matter. The fans seem to love him and he can make some pretty exciting plays in the field.
Even if we are losing, a guy like that entertains and I’d be willing to pay to come watch him play.
MW: You’d be among the only ones. Not that John McDonald isn’t fantastic to watch, but people didn’t pay to see Roger Clemens pitch when he was here, and there’s no marked increase in attendance when Roy Halladay pitches.
- RobMike, I’m glad to see the Jays DID SOMETHING!! Time will tell if Cito was the right move or not but at least it’s a step forward. I get the feeling that baseball guys (i.e.: former players, reporters, broadcasters, basically people close to the team and the manager) don’t like seeing other baseball guys (i.e.: Gibby, Peavey, Whitt) get fired. I get that, but maybe there’s a personal aspect that comes into play?? There’s a good argument that Gibby wasn’t a bad manager but at the end of the day, if players aren’t repsonding something needs to be done. Call it ‘a sense of urgency’, call it ‘leadership’, call it ‘lighting a fire’…point is players weren’t repsonding and I’m glad to see that JP had the courage to act. Maybe it is all about winning for JP…except when it comes to hiring Barry……or Dunn :) PS — the son of a teacher — “craptacular”??? What’s the deal?
- SandyMW: “He didn’t say he doesn’t like him because he strikes out a lot.”
are you kidding me mike? this is taking defending J.P. to a different level. I think you need to listen to the audio again and if you don’t think J.P. is listing strikes outs as a reason he doesn’t like Dunn then theres something wrong with you.
MW: It was one of five reasons he gave why he didn’t want Dunn.
- Dan Meverytime vernon wells steps up to bat i want to throw something at the tv. perhaps the reason j.p. went off on dunn is because he sees those faults in his own center fielder
MW: If he does, then it really wasn’t his idea to sign Wells to that big contract.
- shirleyHey Mike,
When I first heard the Cito hiring I was really excited because I have a tone of respect for this guy, my next thought was, this is great publicity and will surely put a few more bodies in the seats at the Sky…Rogers Centre, at least for the first few home series, Then I remembered, what Cito’s best attributes are: he is great with his players, they always know where they stand and if they have an issue Cito’s door is always open. Most importantly Cito’s best attribute is that he is a great hitting coach, Jesse Barfield has repeatedly said during his broadcasts on the CBC that Cito was the best hitting coach he had ever had. So in closing if Cito can still handle the everyday grind of managing in the big leagues at age 64, then this is a great hire
MW: We shall see.
- Andrew CMike,
I can’t believe you started this blog off with such a snarky, sarcastic comment. Seems like your plan is to start the Cito II era but not giving the guy a break. I mean, the guy was the manager for all of a few hours and you expect that to turn the hitters on like light swtiches? Come on Mike, that was not needed.
MW: I certainly don’t expect that. That comment wasn’t a shot at Cito, but for all those who thought John Gibbons was the biggest problem with this team.
- JWCito’s return was a big PR move. Yes, his presence might make a small difference BUT he can’t hit for this team. As currently constructed they are underachieving offensively to the nth degree. The only way that this malady ends is if JP can sign a Lofton and trade for an impact bat. Quite frankly, this squad can’t hit. As legendary as Cito is, he can’t get this current group of Jays to do it.
What was funny and sad about the late inning 0-0 score was the outcome . When I had heard the score, I thought that the Jays were going to repeat their much viewed late inning loss syndrome. This current collection of players have no comeback ability resulting in wins( what a great comeback in Brewerville, but too much too late). I really don’t think that Cito can turn this ship around without JP aquiring some choice players.
As for JP’s comments regarding Adam Dunn,he is receiving criticism of his lack of passionless players. It’s all fine and good that Dunn doesn’t like baseball, BUT he has tons more power than anyone in JP’s squad. Also, JP is big on OBP and Dunn is an OBP machine. The whole scenario is a farce, because it have been refreshing to hear JP spin on Rios’ and Wells’ heart and passion. Many Jays fan would certainly put those two in JP’s Adam Dunn category.
MW: Yes, they would.
- jayMike
Just curious – with the wave of nostalgia washing over this moribund franchise, why was Ernie Whitt canned too? Do you have any insight?
MW: I don’t. Maybe J.P. said to Godfrey, “If you want me to give you Cito, you have to give me Ernie.”
- DanI didn’t really pay attention to the Jays around this time, but why was Tim Johnson fired after leading this team to an 88 win season?
MW: He made up a bunch of stories about serving in Vietnam and having to kill children and stuff.
- GayI got Godfrey in my sights for all of this futility. I know he’s a pillar of the community, but he’s also a lunk head. JP (to surely follow at a later time) and Gibbons offing may not be enough to turn this decrepit team around. I think this club needs some fresh new thinking at the top. And tell Rogers that I’m cancelling my cable. There’s nothing on it at the moment I need to watch.
MW: Name-calling? That’s not like you, Vito.
- Vito From HamiltonIf Gibbons were managing we likely would have lost 3-0 and the game would not have gone to extra innings :P
JP must really be shaking now. If the new management team can’t get it done, then all fingers point to JP (your God of baseball) and his bad judgement of talent.
MW: You mean J.P. and his faulty crystal ball.
- MatthewHi Mike
- marioAnother tough loss.I guess even Mcdonald could screw up in the field.I didn’t see the play but in the sun it stated he booted the play.Well I guess everybody who wanted to see Gibbons go is happy but I guess if Ricciardi isn’t next they won’t break out the champagne..Ricciardi must be doing something right to keep his job.For how long who knows.I am one of those guys who didn’t give Gaston his due when he coached here.Actually I thought the Jays won inspite of him being the manager.I hope I was wrong then so maybee he can turn this season around.I know a wild card is a long shot but with the staring pitching we get day in and day out if the hitting comes around we got a shot a long one but a shot.Look at Tampa Bay they could actually play some decent ball.Who would’ve thunk it?Here’s hoping Cito’s got something up his sleve that can make these hitters think they can hit when they got runners on.
mario
Go Jays!!!
I must say that I am a little surprized that J.P would hire an older experienced manager like Cito..Riccardi has always preferred the less experienced because he could tell them what to do..Cito isn’t that type of manager and now Riccardi will have to keep his meddling hands out of it all..Maybe that is a good thing..Historically, there have been some good results for managers returning to their old clubs..I think of Bobby Cox in Cleveland..He managed there for a few yrs left, then went on to manage the Jays, then went back to Cleveland and went on to capture several division titles..Do you think there is even a pinch of hope for the Jays with Cito back?
MW: You’re thinking of Atlanta for Bobby Cox. I think there’s as much hope with Cito back as there was when Gibbons was here.
- RayHi Mike,
I have to write again because I just listened to your Jays talk.
You say that JP is Cito’s boss, while that is true on paper, Cito could care less at this point what JP has to say in running the baseball team. Not sure if you have ever worked in the real business world, but if your bosses boss (Godfrey) basically hires you (Cito) then Cito can pick up JP by the scruff and throw him out of the clubhouse if he so chooses with no reprecussion. If you think otherwise that is funny (I know you are JPs buddy so coming to his defense is no surprise) Cito is god now, JP is on his way out, and if Godfrey was pushed to a choice Cito;s word at this point is gospel to him..why because the organization is desperate and JPs word cannot be relied on after 7 years of mediocre (at best) baseball
MW: I don’t know where you’re going with the whole “word” thing, but if that was all the case, why didn’t Godfrey fire J.P., too?
- MatthewMike,
A couple things to talk about today…
1) Scary is right! I hope Halliday is as super-human as I think and he just has some minor swelling..Getting hit in the head with a line drive is not fun. Playing softball I got nailed in the temple and ended up looking like an alien for three weeks. I can’t even imagine how much it would hurt considering it is a hardball thrown by a major league pitcher and hit by a major league hitter. Hopefully Roy is alright.
2) I thought you might find this funny. I was watching the game with my girlfriend last night and she asked:
“Who is that pitcher?? I don’t like him!”
I responded with:
“That’s Scott Downs he is spectacular! Why don’t you like him??”
she said:
“He has bad hair and he looks really scary!!”
Needless to say I laughed my a** off and immediately told her about the Snakeface happenings.
3)I completly agree with you about Godfrey having his hands all over the coaching changes made yesterday. I get the feeling that J.P. will not be insulting players on other teams come spring training…
- PatCouldn’t agree more on Rios’ effort last night. What a great game he played.
What’s the latest on Aaron Hill? I heard he may be able to start a rehab assignment this week and so possibly he could be back for the series next weekend?
Oh! And something I was surprised you didn’t mention, not only did it not take the team 4 innings to get the first hit last night, but they had 1 player get 2 hits alone before the fourth !! (pretty sure Rios had his doubles in the first and third?) This Gaston move is already paying off, eh?
MW: Yeah, sure is. The word on Aaron Hill is not good. He’s still suffering from post-concussion syndrome and has been told by the big-shots at the Pittsburgh concussion clinic not to do ANYTHING for at least two weeks.
- LukeUnfortunately, the Jays won’t do the one thing that might possibly have some impact – that is, they won’t sign Barry Bonds.
By the way, this may be a silly question, but couldn’t they still sign Kenny Lofton? (I don’t see him playing anywhere.)
Thanks,
Steve
MW: They could, but they get on base just fine. They need guys who can put the ball in the seats.
- SteveI agree with every word of Richard griffin’s column today. You can stick a fork in J.P. because he’s done. I think the decision to can Gibby was made by Mr. Godfrey either late Tuesday or early wednesday. It would not have mattered if the Jays had won the last two in Milwaukee or even if they scored one hundred runs in the ninth inning of Thursday afternoon’s game. That would partially explain the open stress you could tell J.P. was under if you listen to “Wednesday with J.P.”. I also believe that J.P. has been told he’s done if there are no playoffs this year. Cito doesn’t do token interviews, He’s here long term. I also think the club has no delusion that there is a post season in its future. Cito and friends are here to evaluate the talent on hand through the end of the year, after that strong winds of change are coming soon. I think J.P.’s idiotic statements about Adam Dunn are the straw that broke the camels back. There is NO WAY any free agent of substance is on his way to Toronto as long as Riccardi is there. The players union is too strong. J.P.’s comments about Dunn amount to professional suicide.
MW: If they’d scored a hundred runs in the 9th, I think Gibby would have stayed. Why hasn’t J.P. been fired yet, if what you say is true?
- Jim Branscome… plus c’est la meme chose…
Glad I wasn’t the only one wondering about leaving Stairs at first. Shannon Stewart was still in the dugout wasn’t he? (Just listening to JaysTalk now, hopefully it wasn’t mentioned…)
MW: Shannon Stewart is on the disabled list.
- James (from the 'Shwa)I take issure with your first paragraph. The manager and the coaches haven’t had any time to work with the players.
- Larry SiposI think this move is not just a superficial P.R. move. Players around the team, more specifically Scott Rolen, have stated Gibbons is a good man and knowledgeable when it comes to baseball. I’m pretty sure he’s a loyal and trustworthy man. While I don’t know him personally I think it’s self evident from his behavior and his comments (stand up comes to mind) He is a fine person and is of excellant character.
I believe there is a shelf life to managers and coaches and a time comes when they’re no longer able to reach the players. Yes this is theoretical and difficult to prove, but one of the reasons why pro coaches are fired. One of the duties of managers and coaches is to provide leadership (follow me I know how to get there).
Gaston, Tennace and Murphy have all been hitting coaches in their careers.
Hitting, being the Jays down fall, needed to be addressed and has been. Time will tell but last night is by no means an indicator.
One other thought: I hope that all of the hitting coaches the Jays are suddenly employing either have the same approach to at bats in various situations, or that they split up the batters. Can’t have the boys in blue getting all confused…
- James (from the 'Shwa)Michael,
I’m curious about your take. I’ve been reading the beloved Drunks and they’re dumping all over J.P., calling Cito’s hiring a cynical ploy on his part that helped also to distract attention from the Dunn gaff.
I wouldn’t argue against the idea that the hiring is a cynical ploy, but I’m inclined to think this wasn’t done by or for J.P. but to him! I suspect this appointment heralds a shift in the organizational balance of power. What do you think?
MW: I don’t know about heralding a shift in the balance of power. I think, though, that this was the ideal time for Paul Godfrey to strongly suggest a move, since J.P. wasn’t exactly in a position to puff out his chest this week.
- MikieI think JP has just lost his best excuse for losing.If the team does not start hitting and turn things around under Cito then there is only one person to blame,JP,the guy who thought these guys could hit.If they begin to hit,then JP is a genius.We will know by the end of September,maybe sooner.
MW: If they begin to hit, isn’t Cito the genius?
- Paul McCreathCito managing this team is actually quite an experiment. In his first reign as manager, his everyday lineup was pretty much set in stone based on contracts, talent, etc. Now he has this team with many interchangeable parts. It will be interesting to see what parts he keeps, what parts he exchanges, and what parts he dumps. Im thinking he will get rid of at least one bullpen arm to give himself more of a bench until he can figure who his go to position players will be. but i also believe that once he decides who he is gonna run out there, its gonna be those guys over and over and over again…and that’s where i think this thing is gonna seriously break down if he misteps..just a hunch but remember that guy ed sprague? i think he was given about as long a leash as humanly possible..i dont wanna see the same this time around be it whomever.
- sammy jalalzaiMike – on the previous blog post, someone mentioned that Cito looked awkward bringing in Frasor. On today’s yahoo wire stories, I came across this:
Manager Cito Gaston admitted to making a mistake, the result of a little managerial rust. “It’s a little different and I made some mistakes out there but we’ll see if it gets better (Saturday),” he said of the job he did. “I walked off the mound tonight to give the umpire the name of the pitcher and once you walk off, you can’t go back, so when (RHP Jason) Frasor came in, I couldn’t even tell him anything.”
Could you clarify what Cito meant? I know that if a manager visits the pitcher twice in the same inning, the pitcher must be relieved, but I don’t think Cito was referring to this rule.
Adrian (0T3)
MW: I’m not sure what he was talking about. He could have gone back when Frasor came in, but it would have been a first charged visit which would have meant that the next time he went out, he’d have had to yank him. I think.
- Adrian co-alumniTroy Glaus with the grand slam!!! Man, the Jays could really use a big bat like his in their lineup. His 10 hrs and 47 RBIS would look good in the cleanup hole.. Oh wait…
- B.Viddyhey mike,
i am dying to know what adam dunn’s reaction was to j.p.’s apology,i can’t seem to find out anywhere,would appreciate it if you could please respond,thanks.
MW: The stories are all over the place, check out mlb.com
- rich rodgersDon’t you agree Mike, that J.P’s rage regarding Adam Dunn on Wednesday had all to do with him knowing that he was going to fire Gibbons the next day and that was bothering him.
MW: Yup.
- JeremyMarcum’s injury is a real bummer, hopefully he can come back soon, and it doesn’t effect his performance once he returns. Unfortunately that may not end up being the case.
MW: We shall see.
- TerryMike, Sportsnet is reporting that Shaun Marcum is injured! Is this true and how long do you think he will be out for? If he is, do you think we will call up Purcey or Parrish?
MW: It’s true, he’s going to see Dr. Andrews on Monday. I have no idea how long he’ll be out. According to Jerry on the air today, Parrish has the inside track on the Saturday start.
- RossChange of pace of all this return of Cito talk. I was watching the Cardnials and Red Sox game on Fox, and watched Troy Glaus hit a grand slam. I looked at his numbers and was amazed.
Here they are:
.260/.362/.441 10Hr 47Rbi’s
Contrast that to Rolen’s numbers:
.268/.357/.415 3Hr 17Rbi’s
Obviously I take Rolen’s defense, but with such a disparity in offensive numbers do you think the Cards won this trade?
Back to the Cito thing. I haven’t chimed in with my two cents, so here it is. I’m a big fan of Cito and I thought it was odd that he hasn’t been offered a position since he was let go in ’97, I believe I asked you the same question in a previous blog. However, I truly believe this is a PR move created by Godfrey. My feeling is he’s looking to use the Cito name to mask the recent terrible play by Jays, as well as trying to deflect the criticism of J.P. Considering it was a Godfrey move, it is evident that J.P is not going to last more than the end of the year, unless Gaston turns this around a la ’89.
BTW, in 1993 I used to work at the Skydome. I had to check my schedule yesterday just to make sure I didn’t have another shift :-)
MW: Cito has been offered manager jobs since he was let go in ’97, but he didn’t take them. Glaus wanted out, so it’s safe to say his numbers would have been different if he were still here. I always thought of him as a big, scary bat, though. I think I’d still rather have Rolen.
- BobbyCito alone will not ‘fix’ it. A piece of the puzzle is missing, and until it is found, this team will remain a .500 team.
I think most fans would agree that whats needed is a power bat in the middle of the line-up. Perhaps JP could kill two birds with one stone and solidify left field as well, because as it stands now we’ve got Matt Stairs, Brad Wilkerson, Kevin Mench and Shannon Stewart, all of which share time in left. Some suggestions?…
Jason Bay – he plays left, he hits for power, and hes Canadian, which would make his acquisition another good PR move.
Carlos Lee – another left fielder who is a career .287 hitter that consistantly hits over 30 homers per season
Pat Burrell – also plays left and hits for power. I believe hes in the last year of his contract, but even so, he’d make a nice rental.
Either of those three pieces would surely complete the puzzle.
As I said earier, Cito alone will not fix the problem. It was a great PR move and I’m glad to have him back, but there is a piece missing and its up to JP to find it.
MW: They’re going to try again with Lind, it seems.
- AndreOf course I was kidding with the Whitt comment. When it was said on your show I almost fell off my chair.
MW: Whew.
- mattI don’t know if JP will still be around in September. I rather doubt he will. The Adam Dunn/you guys don’t know about baseball comment came out of sheer frustration, but it was indicative of someone who can’t keep his cool under fire. And there will be nothing but fire from here on in. I love the returning staff to bits, but the team is a hot mess and I doubt it’ll turn around much. There are two things I think Godfrey should do, and one of them won’t be popular at all here or at The Fan. I would keep Ricciardi off your show, Mike. He can’t be trusted in front of an open mic after a nasty loss. And I would start negotiations for his exit immediately. Once a ball player from another club calls our GM ‘a clown’ for cause, it’s time to shut this farce down. Yes, it was only one comment. But it was one comment too many in my opinion. I know you defend the guy, and truly his record hasn’t stunk. We’re a +/-.500 team, not a +/-,380 team. But it’s time to go, nevertheless. Godfrey can take over as interim GM–that’s what he’s basically doing now anyway–and Mr Ricciardi can go back to Mass. and forget all us ignorant fans in TO.
MW: I get the feeling he’d almost be glad to at this point.
- reyesThe Jays should really be leading off Eckstein at this point. Scoots had that one hot stretch, but hes back to being marco scutaro, shouldn’t be in the 1 spot.
MW: Eckstein’s not a leadoff guy, though. I would put Overbay up there.
- B.ViddyWhat the???? I thought they fired Marty Pevey? How did he get back out there coaching third?
- B.ViddyIs Roy Hartsfield dead?
MW: No.
- ChrisJP is the only current GM who has been on the job with his present team at least five years without a playoff appearance to show for it. yet MW says he has not done a poor job. but you did say at the beginning of the season that if this team doesn’t win then JP should lose his job. lucy you gots some esplainin to do
MW: No, I didn’t. I was asked if J.P. would be fired if the Jays didn’t make the playoffs this year, and I said it depends on the circumstances of them not making the playoffs. If they finish in last place with a basically healthy offense and hitting this abysmal, then I can see him getting fired. I don’t believe he has done a poor job, though.
- roccoHi Mike,
I’m a Jays fan living in Australia and perhaps a bit of distance gives some perspective (maybe not). However, my observation is that during all our offensive woes this season, everyone from the GM to the fans seem to be hanging on the hope that “our hitting has to get better” and that “this is a good hitting lineup”. The upshot being that once the hitting turns around, things will be okay.
Well..what if the present hitters just aren’t that good and never will be?
Yes, we have some hitters on the team with some great years behind them. Some are young enough that they should in their prime, but their seems to be a LOT of hope pinned on the belief that all of these guys can repeat their best years. That’s a big leap in faith to take.
Unfortunately I think this is the single biggest mistake that JP and all of us have fallen for, and it’s not really anyone’s fault, it’s just reality. We seem to have built a “paper” lineup of hitting stats when most of these guys are either on the downside of their careers, niggled by past injuries, or have had a few great seasons in the past.
What do you think? I think these long-term contracts may have sealed our fate for the next few years. We need new hitters and I don’t know where they are going to come from.
MW: I think that this is a group of hitters that is good enough to win with the pitching the Jays have. Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, Aaron Hill and Lyle Overbay are not on the downside of their careers, but they’re all having much poorer offensive seasons than they usually have. I don’t see them as “not that good and never will be” because they all have been that good, and in the very recent past.
- Robmike do you realize that almost EVERYTHING you say is wrong. you said that barajas was worse than sal fasano, yet he is 6th in rbis, 4th in hr, on the team despite being 11th in AB’s but you are right the rbis have nothing to do with him, just like adam dunn. I guess the runners just somehow scored by themselves. and you are right barajas had so many more opportunities to drive in runs than rios wells and overbay. he should get no credit at all. maybe JP should put him on waivers? what do you think?
MW: I think that anyone who says they thought that Rod Barajas would even come close to approaching the numbers he has put up to this point in the season is a huge liar.
- rocco12 of the past 18 runs have been driven in by one of inglett, zaun or barajas, 3 of the lowest salaried players on the team who get the fewest ab’s. WOW here’s a crazy idea, why not play the guys that aren’t afraid to drive in runs? zaun and barajas can dh/catch and chiclett can play left. time so start benching these fat cats and call up some more AAA players just to show that you don’t get an automatic start just because you have a guaranteed contract.
MW: There you go – Rios, Wells and Rolen are afraid to drive in runs. It’s as simple as that.
- roccoWhat are the chances of Gillick coming back to GM when JP’s gone.(hopefully soon) And why did Gillick leave in the first place.
MW: Gillick left either because he’d had enough or because he knew how bad the team was going to get in the near future. His contract with the Phillies is up after this season, and he still has a home in Toronto. As long as we’re looking back to go forward, why not? Let’s re-hire Paul Beeston as President, too!
- Paulmike who would you pick as the better power hitter and rbi producer:
player A 1889ab 67hr 258rbi
player B 2294ab 55hr 281rbi
don’t ask for more stats you are not getting any. after you pick I will tell you who these people are.
MW: I need more stats.
- roccoI just read every blog in the last month since i have no life and i am new to this website.. why does that one guy always refer to you as Michael of the ballyard?
MW: I don’t know. But I don’t mind it. Wow, and on a Saturday night, too? Speaks volumes.
- D.A. Weinbrignmike if halladay went 9 innings this game can he get a complete game
MW: You only get a complete game if you pitch the whole (complete) game.
- jack posterMike, if you don’t think JP has done a “bad job at all” why are the Jays a joke of a team – a team that is 5 or 6 games under 500 and going no where and have not done anything other than finish second once and third the other times I believe during his tenure ?
On a scale of 0 to 10, what would rating would you give JP’s performance this year ? Over his tenure ?
The Jays should have let JP go back to Boston when he played the Jays off against the Red Sox. JP is no Billy Bean – never was and never will. He just talks a good story.
If you really looked at the multiple transactions that JP has done during his stay with the Jays in an objective non “rose colored” glasses and considered the tremendous attitude that JP has – at times complete disrespect for anybody who challenges him, the majority of people including many in sports who are as close to the Jays as you would say JP has done a terrible job and needs to go now. There are way more negatives than positives.
Not sure why you are such a JP fan – never understood it and never will since you are regarded as a knowledgeable baseball person.
If JP were in a business role and delivered these types of results he would have likely been fired a long time ago.
What is it going to take for you to admit that JP has done a bad job ?
As always, I welcome your response.
Thanks
MW: I don’t think any objective view of Ricciardi’s tenure here could be that he has done a “terrible job”. There are a few mistakes that could be pointed to – overpaying Frank Thomas and painting the Jays into a corner with the vesting option, releasing Scott Eyre and Chad Gaudin, signing Corey Koskie, but those are few. He’s constantly trying to make the team better, and it’s certainly not his fault that guys like Overbay, Rios, Wells and Hill have fallen off the table this year. He hasn’t gotten fleeced on a single trade yet, and has gotten the better of most of the deals he has made. It’s too early to have an overall view of his drafting, but out of the draft, he’s come up with guys like Hill, Lind, Marcum, Litsch, Tallet, McDonald, Overbay, Scutaro and Accardo. I don’t blame him for the Wells contract, because I think he’d rather have traded him. Unless he goes insane over the next couple of months and starts making really bad trades, nothing will convince me that he’s done a bad job, because I don’t think he has.
- AdrianI know you were being sarcastic to commenter #79, but I’d love to see Paul Beeston back as team president. He is the unheralded hero of Toronto’s World Series years (ok, well, not totally unheralded since he’s in the Level of Excellence, but unheralded by the casual fan).
MW: I think the casual fan loves him. I was being sarcastic, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all that if Godfrey and Ricciardi lost their jobs, Rogers would try to bring back Beeston and Gillick.
- Alex PMike, don’t EVER question me again (post #7)
MW: You, you’re good, you.
- Johnno you don’t need more stats because I asked only for hr and rbi production and all you care about is obp and you are afraid to pick because you know you’ll look foolish if I tell you it’s raul mondesi or somebody. you act like a girl mike, be a man for once.
mike who would you pick as the better power hitter and rbi producer:
player A 1889ab 67hr 258rbi
player B 2294ab 55hr 281rbi
don’t ask for more stats you are not getting any. after you pick I will tell you who these people are.
MW: I need more stats.
MW: I act like a girl?
- roccoyou misinterpret, M-Dub.
- slobberfaceid never complain about reading baseball blogs at work…its too bad about marcum, i was hoping cito would try him at the 3-spot
Hey Mike
In regards to Adrian co-alumni’s comments, Cito could not have gone back to the mound to replace Frasor if the same batter is at the plate. Managers can’t make two trips to the mound while the same batter is at the plate. If they do, the manager is immediately ejected, and the pitcher has to stay in the game to face the hitter….once the hitter’s atbat is complete, the pitcher must then be removed from the game. Maybe this is what Cito was referring to, i’m not sure.
MW: Must be.
- rickMike, I’m sick of guys chirpping at JP. This manager brings in what the team needs every year.I think hes one of the most active managers in the game right now.And these are the same guys that said at the begining of the year,the jays are gonna win the AL EAST. JP looks at what the teams needs and goes and gets it, its not his fault Rolen and Eckstein arent playing like them selves.And how come JP gets no credit for the great young pitching staff.Im not saying hes the best GM but hes definately not the worst.
MW: The vultures are circling – when people get excited, they get irrational. I wouldn’t say that J.P. brings in what the team needs every year, but he tries. It’s CERTAINLY not his fault that the hitters are underperforming to the extent that they are.
- BrandoMW: I’m not sure what he was talking about. He could have gone back when Frasor came in, but it would have been a first charged visit which would have meant that the next time he went out, he’d have had to yank him. I think.
Pretty sure you figured it out already, but I believe Cito was talking about the fact that he literally stepped off of the mound, and couldn’t step back on, hence needing to flip the ball to Wilkerson.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rule8.shtml, scroll down to 8.06 d)
MW: Yep, it’s true. Pointed out a couple of days ago by an eagle-eyed commenter.
- Dan W