1:45 AM Eastern
I just finished going through the last of the 289 comments (so far) to yesterday’s post, and there are three reasons I’m posting this now. Here they are, in no particular order:
1 - To break it up a bit, that’s a lot of comments for anyone who is interested to read;
2 - To give you a softball update, since I played tonight and I know how much some of you hang on these things; and
3 - To thank you.
I never expected the kind of outpouring of support that I got, I’d say the comments were about 85-90% favourable and hey, even those of you who can’t stand me still took the time to comment, and take the time to listen. Most of the critics even had the courage of their convictions to actually sign their names.
I didn’t write that last post to fish for compliments, nor did I write it to attack Mike Toth, but this blog isn’t just about the Blue Jays and baseball, it’s also to give you a greater glimpse of who I am off-mic, and it’s heartening to see how many of you actually get me. That’s what we’re going for here.
So thank you again, very sincerely, I appreciate the time you take to read this and to comment, and that’s why I make sure to read every comment and reply to as many as I can. I’m probably going to pull back on weekends so that I can spend some more time with my kids, but I won’t pull back that much. I’m still going to get riled up about grammar and spelling, and for those of you who don’t think that that stuff is important, I’m sorry. I’m not going to help contribute to the downfall of the English language, though. I’m a teacher’s kid, I can’t help it.
As for the softball update, we won 21-7, and thanks to the magic of Rub A535, I only hurt my back a little bit. Same as two weeks ago, going up the middle to grab a bouncer. This time, though, there was a runner on first and the grounder kicked just to the first-base side of second, so I had to go down and get it, then twist back to step on second. It wasn’t hit hard enough to turn two, unfortunately. At the plate, I went 5-for-5. All singles, though one could have been a double if I wasn’t babying the back.
Friday evening I begin to stalk Reed Johnson for an appearance on TBJTW.
Comments, as always, are encouraged and definitely much appreciated!
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Speaking of fact checking, why would someone write an entire article about how integral Marcum is to the Jays rotation and then refer to him as a 28 year old? That just stinks of poor workmanship. 5/5 is impressive in any league…i mean u figure theres a good chance you line out right at someone 30 percent of the time.
MW: Thanks, but it is still old-man softball.
- sammyMike
This is a little bit different from some of the other discussions that have been going on. In my opinion, the Jays best offensive season in the Riccardi era was in 03. If I remember correctly they led the majors in runs, or were very close to the top at the very least. But when I look back at that offense, on paper, it wasn’t even all that impressive. Looking back at that roster, and from some memory, the lineup probably looked something like this:
1. Johnson
2. Cat
3. Wells
4. Delgado
5. Hinske
6. Myers
7. Phelps
8. Hudson
9. Woodward
Honestly, I think on paper this year’s offense is better. What do you think? How does that lineup become so productive? Especially considering Hinske and Phelps were supposed to be 2 cornerstones of it, and were awful.
MW: Wells led the league in hits and doubles, Delgado led the league in RBIs. Myers had the year of his life. Cat, Reed and Shannon Stewart all had solid seasons (Stewart for the first half, until he was traded). Phelps had an .828 OPS, which is certainly not awful. Hinske had a bad year, no doubt, but with RISP, he hit .272/.343/.500.
- TerryMike, good morning, and glad the back’s ok, or at least bearable. They can be miserable things sometimes.
I’m glad everyone has replied and is supportive of you, not everyone can separate disagreeing with an opinion from hating the person with that opinion, but I think through the very nature of your work with the public, you’re changing that dynamic. Also, the whole grammar and english thing is horribly underrated, please keep on with that too, because it’s important.
Out of curiousity, on a scale of one to ten, how much do you hate words like ‘donut’ or ‘drive thru’ or ‘nite’? I’m about a twelve on those.
As for slowing down a bit, while we all check the blog constantly to see if you’ve posted, we’ll live if you don’t get to our burning ‘who’s the better catcher’ questions; your kids need you more than we do. Besides, most of us are just getting older, your girls are growing up, enjoy it.
In conclusion, no real question, just wanted to say you’re doing a good job. Oh, yeah, what about ‘ATM machine’? Thanks Mike!
MW: Donut I don’t mind so much, that’s the official American spelling. The other two are more marketing tools that have slipped in, but I’d never use them. PIN number gets me just as much as ATM machine.
- kitaHey Mike,
Started listening to the show last year and read the blog everyday, and just wanted to thank you for the time you put into the Jays. I’ll be honest, last year, I was one of those that thought you were a “homer” and belittled your fans. As I listened more and this year, read more, no question I have full out respect for what you do. While I may not agree on some of the stuff you say, you’re the best out there, my personal first source for Jays news, info and insight, and a tremendous asset to the organization.
One quote I thought you’d enjoy and maybe at times might be useful to refer back to “Never argue with a fool for he’ll bring you down to his level and beat you with his experience” -source unknown
I think in your job you have to ignore the above but sometimes might help when dealing with all the Gibby bashers, the ones who think we’ll get Dunn and picks for Litsch and so forth.
take care…keep it up!
MW: I had never heard the second part of that saying, that’s cool!
- ShachinHi, Mike:
You may recall a (much) earlier post concerning the Yankees, and how often their record had been .500.
Here’s an updte — during last night’s game, they mentioned that they had now been at .500 23 times, tying the all-time franchise record.
They also mentioned that their record in the games while at .500 was 10-12, and that the highest they had been all year was two games over.
Considering that their record going into last night was even at 33’s, this is a pretty amazing stat — exactly even after 70% of their wins!
Not sure if that is consistency, or inconsistency, and of course it probably has no bearing on what happens the rest of the year, but I find it pretty interesting.
MW: It’s consistent inconsistency.
- NormMike,
Whew - that was a lot of reading. I’m sure you don’t want us to dwell on this subject but if you will allow it just one final word on it from me.
Some pretty interesting stuff there - just fantabulous to see the overwhelming comments as to supporting you. Must have made your day for sure.
Post #123 - He/she started off their response to your blog by stating they consider themselves as “intelligent”.
He/she was “applauding Toth for having such intestinal fortitude” for doing what he did.
Please #123, it doesn’t take any intestinal fortitude
whatsoever to “gang up on someone” when they are not present to defend themselves -however it does take some level of intelligence to recognize this.
If your going to attack or allow others to attack someones personality and integrity (in particular one of your peers)- a radio show is not the place to do it - let em rag on the Jays or other teams and have their 15 seconds - however show some class and respect for your peers and cut em off when they begin the personal stuff and most certainly do not encourage it. That is what irked me the most as to Toth allowing this on PTS the other day!
If you want to apply/include or even infer intelligence with regard to your comments - then try to keep it that way and most importantly - don’t sign your name as “not important”!
I sent a message to Mr. Toth via his blog/column on SN.com the other day - not the correct forum for it as I stated in the response - however - as they say “what’s good for goose is …..”
Anyway I got a response to that in the same forum from someone quoting “Mark Twain” - not sure however if the response was from Mr. Toth and if not from him - just who the intended recipient of the quote was for.
That’s it no more on this stuff from me.
For my own part - your welcome Mike as to your “thanks” in the blog today - and a most deserving “pat on the back” as to your work. Truly cool to see the support you received.
Thanks.
- BobHi Mike,
For the most part I think you do a good job reporting the Jays, and sometimes I listen to your show after the game.
But recently I think you need to step back and really think about what you are covering.
Just heads up, Vernon Wells will not come back and make a difference……….Well you got this wrong even though it is still early, your constant negativity about that drives me nuts. How do you know what a player is going to do after a fracture not a broken hand, can you actually list any players that are at the same level as Vernon?
One other thing that gets me going is that they are not our Toronto Blue Jays. For seven years I was a season ticket holder, since the strike baseball has had to win me over, and in teh last three years the Jays have. They are my team and always will be, remember we actaully helped paid for the building and I am pretty sure the revenue from the games actually goes to players salaries.
I think for the most opart you do a good job, but the media in this city is so negative we need to start being a little more postive, remember players will get paid no matter what, it is up to the managers who choose to pay players. Riccardi does not represent who Blue Jays personal should be.
As for John Gibbons, I really like him as a person, but he does not have a handle on his team, unfortunatly he will not have a job here next season. There is no way you can fire him during the year not unless there is a manager out there who could help this team.
Un like Mike Toth who is out there that could even help.
As well what GM,s could really make a diffrence.
I believe ownership for this team has never had a focus on putting a good team on the field. We will not see the playoffs with thgis current ownership/managment, and I fear that the team will not be in Toronot in about 10 years because of the poor vision .
We need to start over again from the top
MW: I believe you’re the first person in the history of this blog who has criticized me for “constant negativity.” Congratulations, and I’m sure there are plenty of commenters here who would like to have a word with you. Glad you’re so positive about things, though.
- JohnReed Johnson… I miss him! I don’t care what the numbers said at the beginning of the season and I don’t care what they say now. He was a damn’ good player, he was a fan favourite and he obviously loved the game. He is one of the major reasons why I want Ricciardi gone. JP has no ability to read a situation correctly and didn’t realize how bad the fans would feel after Johnson was let go. Reed was a huge favourite here, and we’re still bitching about his ouster. If what replaced him had worked out, then maybe. But it didn’t. And Ricciardi has a bit of a history of messing where it’s not needed and not messing where it is. He’s lacking something, maybe baseball intuition. Sometimes he makes the right move. But then he goes and does something dense like ’signing’ Rod Barajas, and not bothering to tell Greg Zaun he’s now no longer the starting catcher, so Zaun finds out the hard way. Then discovering that–whoops!–Barajas isn’t signed, so he has to go cap-in-hand to Zaun. There was the Frank Thomas debacle. And the Corey Koskie debacle. Yeah, he’s done some things right, but few GMs are wrong all the time.
However he’s been wrong long enough. A fish stinks from the head and I’m tired of smelling him. Let’s Go, Ricciardi! Anywhere but here.
MW: You’ve pointed out two big mistakes with no counters. The positive far outweighs the errors in throwing too much money at Thomas and Koskie. I have always said that letting Reed go wasn’t a mistake, and looking at how he’s done with Chicago (.232/.291/.303 vs RHP - and the main reason the let him go was because he has trouble with righties) shows they were right. That Shannon Stewart hasn’t worked out doesn’t change the fact that Reed is doing what was expected from him. It doesn’t matter how much the fans like Reed, you can’t manage for the fans. And Zaun was a free agent, why should Ricciardi have to tell him he was signing another catcher? It worked out really well for Zaun, because he had them over a barrel and wound up getting much more money than he otherwise would have.
- reyesHi There Mike,
I didn’t get a chance to chime in on the last thread. Part of the reason is that, because I’m a fan from the States, I didn’t hear the radio show to which you were responding so I really couldn’t voice a view one way or the other.
What I can say is that regardless of whether you reply a little or a lot, you’re replying. Which the other “official” bloggers don’t or cannot do because of the nature of thier job. It’s almost as if the blog is now part of your job description. Where as the other bloggers do it as an offshoot of they’re article writing without any expectations of needing to reply.
Which is why reading and replying to your blog is a “ritual” for me because I feel you’re the only Jays “insider” that speaks directly to us and answers our griefs. This is especially helpful for the US based fans like myself.
So please keep it up as much as you humanly can. Without ruining your home life of course!
Much Thanks,
- JJJJ
Mike…
- RogerListen to you as much as I can down here in Windsor(which isn’t always easy), and appreciate your journalistic talent and professionalism.
Cheers,
Roger
5 for 5 on my team thats a free beer back at the club house Mike.
your playing short stop and making plays to the first base side of secound?? thats called mad range.
- Dan MHey mike,
What was the deal with all the speculations about the Jays being interested in Bedard? I heard from a number of sources that they would be interested in pursuing him at the deadline for perhaps Burnett and some others. Although they apparently have settled down what do you think the chances of a trade like this coming up are and who else would we have to deal along with Burnett?
MW: Bedard has really disappointed with Seattle this season (small sample size) and continued to show his fragility. Seattle wouldn’t be interested in Burnett at all.
- Brandon MI admit it now, I was wrong (as were most Jays fans). The Jays should have kept Reed Johnson and left Shannon Stewart. They saved a couple of million dollars, but who cares because it’s not like they re-invest it back into payroll.
MW: Reed is hitting .267/.346/.364, which could easily have been expected given his track record. Stewart is hitting .240/.325/.303, which could not.
- Jim BCubs series should be interesting. Can’t wait to see Reed play and Ted Lilly pitch on Sunday. Jays should win 2 out of 3, AJ, Doc, and Litsch must pitch well. Love your blog and commentary, keep it up man.
- Tom StewartI’m sorry that this is long, but it is an issue that has been on my mind for a while…
I think the primary reason that the Blue Jays continue to blow close games can be summed-up in one word: accountability.
I understand that hitting with RISP is the tangible reason why the Jays aren’t winning these tight contests, but I truly believe that a lack of leadership on this team is the primary problem.
From what I can tell by watching TV highlights or listening to JaysTalk, John Gibbons gives essentially the same interview win or lose. He might act differently behind closed doors, but that’s certainly not the impression that I get from him, his players, or the media who cover him.
Attitudes are contagious, and I think John Gibbons’ “ho-hum” attitude has infected the leaders of the Blue Jays clubhouse (whoever they may be) and transformed the “corporate culture” into one that accepts failure.
I’m not suggesting that Gibbons or player leaders have to go all John McLaren on the team, but I do think that if the Blue Jays had someone (coach or player) with a leadership style like Ozzie Guillen or Jason Veritek, the Blue Jays would not blow as many games or make as many mental errors.
Unlike team chemistry, I really believe that leadership is an intangible factor that matters. There may not be a direct link to the wins and losses column, but it establishes that winning is the only satisfactory result (no matter how long a season is) and that mental lapses and lack of production are not acceptable.
IMO, until the Blue Jays find leaders who hold the team accountable, the current culture of mediocrity will continue.
MW: I appreciate your opinion, but since neither of us is in that clubhouse behind closed doors, neither of us has any idea what the culture of the clubhouse is.
- JeremyI understand that you personally are not trying to attack Mike Toth but seeing all the negativity towards Toth on the comments I hope Nelson also sees it and takes heart. I think he’s bad on PTS and he has ruined a perfectly good midmorning show on the Bullpen.
Just my opinion.
Michael
- Michael KrimmerSo you are the Ichiro of your team eh, always hitting a great percentage with not a lot of homers. It must be tough to hit home runs on 45-50mph pitches, you need a lot of power for that and at age 38(wink wink), us fans are not expecting it from you.
Two technical questions: What is the impact of humidity on pitches? I read somewhere that the ball moves in the air a lot more in humid conditions than in dry conditions.
And can the batters tell what kinda pitch it’s gonna be at the time of release? I know the reaction time is very less, like 0.4 seconds or so but I think if the batters watch the pitchers hand closely, it helps them great deal.
MW: I think it’s near impossible to watch the pitcher’s hand and then adjust your vision to a ball that’s coming at you at 85+ mph that already has a 15-foot head start while you’re moving your eyes. Heavier air will act on a ball more than lighter air, which is why breaking balls tend not to in Colorado. The more humid the air, the heavier it is.
- BeburgHey Mike,
I got thinking about this the other day and wanted your take on the idea. While the Jays attendance isn’t anything to sneeze at (35K+ for the M’s), I’m sure all would be encouraged by a sold out park every night.
During the hockey season, Ron McLean had an interview with George Gillette, the owner of the Montreal Canadiens and talked about their initiative with their fans. Gillette told of how they don’t take any of their fans for granted, and in fact, every year they give EVERY 5th grade student in Montreal one free ticket to a Habs game. They found through studies that around grade 5 is when a person starts truly associating themselves with a team, and by giving them a free experience to the game they are ensuring that:
1) they will have exposure to the young people at a time when it is critically important to do so
2) They will fill more seats when the parents (who may not have otherwise gone to a game) purchase a ticket to take their kid with the free one.
3) They have the chance of repeat visitors if the kid/family enjoy the experience.
Now, I understand that TO is a much larger area than Montreal, but what do you think about the idea? I think it’s a wonderful way to get more people into the park, in addition to the ones that are already going, and a way to try and secure a loyal fan base into the future. I think it’s something that Jays brass should seriously consider.
Thanks,
MW: I like it.
- KevinMike, I’d love to have an open and collaborative discussion with you at some point. Let me make two points:
- the team is at .500; they were at .500 last year and the changes at SS and 3B, while an improvement, have not helped enough.
- at some point, expecting the long winning streak because the team is so much better than its record over 1.5 years needs to be coined “insanity”
- but the team IS good enough with its pitching and NOT up and down the line-up “fungo hitters”
- so, the issue must be more fundamental and it is - the obsession with OBP is, in my view, affecting the hitters and bringing down their RBI and extra base hit stats well below their career averages - a walk does not equal a hit when there are runners on 2B and/or 3B (even 1B). THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL.
- conclusion is that the philosophy should change from get on base with walks and work pitchers through long counts to aggressively hit hittable pitches even if they’re early in the count, but foul off tough pitches and work counts that way
- I believe this philosophical change is needed and URGENTLY in order to get the hitters back to their career stats and move into contention.
MW: I’m certainly not expecting the long winning streak, but I don’t think a long winning streak is necessary. If the Jays win three out of every five games from here on out, they’ll finish with 90 or 91 wins. You’re correct in saying that a walk does not equal a hit when there are runners in scoring position (unless the bases are loaded), that is fundamental indeed. But I think you’re incorrect in believing that the Jays’ hitters are instructed to let a good first pitch go by in an effort to extend a count.
- Lorne CohenHey Mike,
I know you likely have said this a thousand times but are you playing modified fastball? We play that out here in Alberta (provincial champs in 2006 & 2007, not that I’m bragging) and it is a pretty good game.
Thanks
MW: Yep, modified is the way to go. I prefer baseball, then fastball, but I’m old.
- CameronMike,
What ‘flavour’ of softball do you play? Fast pitch, Slo-pitch or, the popular amongst us over 40, three-pitch?
MW: None of the above! See above!
- WayneReed Johnson returns on a Friday the 13th. Bwwwaaaaahh!Be afraid. Be very afraid!
- Vito From HamiltonHey Mike,
I’m a supporter of ya.
Anyways I was wondering if the Jays would make a pitch for Griffey? I know we would have to give up alot for him, maybe not, and he would have to waive his no trade clause. He would fit into Jays line-up pretty easily. But its wishful thinking at best and considering his contract for an aging player and we still have to pay for Thomas’ salary for this year.
your thoughts
MW: His home run rate has dropped in half over the last calendar year, which is scary, but it doesn’t matter since there’s no way he’d waive his no-trade to come here.
- J. LeeMike,
You mentioned that you love
Vito from Hamilton but no one else. Don’t you think you may of hurt the feelings of other listeners?
MW: Could be. But Vito is classic.
- brunoFor all it’s worth Mike, I need to say, I LOVE BRUNO!
- Vito From HamiltonVito your a good man and a good man is hard to find. Thanks for the laugh Vito.
- brunoSo who was the winning pitcher in your softball game?
MW: Why, none other than Stuart J. Shaul,”Bob”.
- Bob M.“No problem, but after reading the 200 or so comments preceding yours, I’m confident that it’s a very small minority who feel the way you do.”
It’s a Mike Wilner blog. It has Mike Wilner fans. I’m not sure it’s a fair representation of what the entire population feels. Although I will admit that in general it’s normally angry fans who take the time to write, not happy ones. I just think in a particular case like this, an irregular number of fans have come out after hearing you be attacked. Obviously, neither of us have any way of proving whether the comments are a fair representation or not. I’m just trying to say that you probably shouldn’t get overly pleased about it.
“They have short memories, though” – Blanket statement grouping a lot of fans into a category they don’t belong. This is also a condescending statement implying that you know better than everyone else. Now, since you’re talking about yourself and your own views you almost assuredly do know better than everyone else, but it still comes across as condescending IMO, like an unnecessary shot.
But hey, if there’s one example to prove you’re not condescending, it’s definitely Vito saying you’re not. That one cracked me up, and made me think.
I disagree with many who have written that it’s a good thing to be condescending in order to “put the idiots in their place.”
“I did consider editing the ones that criticize Toth, but felt that it was better to give the overall picture of the commenters’ opinions.”
I don’t have a problem with you posting the Toth-bashing comments, but that reasoning seems a little flawed. How is that any different than Toth giving the overall picture of the callers opinions towards you? (I perhaps know the answer, but I’d like to hear how you answer that first.)
#224: Because calling Neil ignorant isn’t offensive? I’m not saying it’s not true at times, but I think there’s a decent chance Neil could find that offensive. Actually, I personally almost find calling anyone “ignorant” in the way it was done to be offensive. Not to say I’d ever get worked up about it, or that I really care, but I’m just trying to poke holes in the idea itself.
Oh, and I love both Vito and Bruno. Spread the love lol.
MW: I don’t think that saying people who think I’m a homer have short memories is condescending at all. It’s true. People who take those shots were (generally) the same ones who took shots at me in 2003 for saying in April that the Jays weren’t going to make the playoffs that year.
My answer as to why I posted the Toth-bashing comments is, unfortunately, that he opened the door. It’s also because I don’t delete any comments at all, other than ones that are all profanity or are horribly offensive/racist. But you’ll note I didn’t comment on any of the comments that bashed Toth, and I cleaned up the language in a lot of them. He egged on those who were criticizing me, I won’t do that.
And yes, there was much more offensive stuff in there. Not offensive to Neil, I can’t worry about his feelings, but offensive to the general public.
As to the more personal comment that you didn’t want published, I appreciate it, but the criticism wasn’t what got to me. I’d be pretty hypocritical doing what I do if I wasn’t able to take criticism. It was the source, and the way it was done, that was totally out of line.
- Dan WHey Mike,
With two days off for Rios, Rolen, Barajas, I’m hoping for a nice turn-around for the Jays tonight. Hopefully we’ll actually win a series at home and start building on .500.
Congrats on 21-7. Sorry about the back. Let me know if I can help (I’m a chiropractor @ Bay/Bloor - I’d love to not only fix the back, but chat Jays while I do it).
Go Jays Go!
MW: I have a chiro out in Mississauga who I would hate to cheat on, though. But if you make me a better offer, I’ll listen.
- MichaelReed also plays three outfield positions (above average) and you can’t forget his hustle.
I supported the move to keep Stewart over Johnson — but I now admit that I was mistaken.
When the Jays make “payroll” moves like Johnson and Thomas (and probably Burnett), I have no problem with it as long as I see it come back to the club’s payroll.
MW: I don’t think the Stewart-Johnson move was because of payroll, though. As I said back in March, Reed does everything better than Stewart except hit righties, but that’s why Stewart was kept.
- Jim BDo you think a lack of a consistant batting order is leading to their inconsistancy at the plate? Is it harder to get into a hitting groove when your being shuffled around the order?
MW: I don’t think so. A lot of the shuffling has had to do with injuries, but there hasn’t been enough good hitting to leave the line-up alone.
- KeithMike:
With a .330 avg and .535 slg % and Shannon Stewart out, can you please try to explain why Joe Inglett and not Adam Lind is occupying a roster spot. Is it only until Hill is well again. Please tell me it is and that they won’t trade Lind for some rental player.
MW: It’s because Inglett is an infielder, too. As for the trade, it depends who the rental player is.
- mikeMike,
Did you hear the contributing editor from ESPN on Prime Time last night? I forget his name but he was asked about his assessment of John Gibbons and the team and something he said stuck out for me. It was about how he was surprised that no pitcher from the Jays staff has called out the lineup in public. He said that to him that was a sign of good club house chemistry and that maybe that was a credit to Gibbons. Do you think this holds true? The reason i’m asking is that the reporter was from the states and obviously does not follow the team regularly like yourself.
MW: That was Dan Shulman, who used to be the Blue Jays’ TV broadcaster. He still lives in Toronto. I think that was a great point.
- AaronMike,
Just a quick anecdote.
I guess it was back 2 seasons ago, my son 10yrs old at the time and myself got to the game early…good seats….he had a ball we had caught at another game….nobody would come over to sign it, there were a throng of kids. Reed who had come out for his pre game “stretch and run” on the field came by and signed 5 or 6 kids stuff..didn,t get to my kid or one other, but pointed and said he would be back…….sure enough 10 minutes later heading back to the dugout he beelined it to the kids to make good on his promise……stuff like that stays with kids a long time and makes the Big Leaguers seem Real.
We’ll be there this Saturday with that ball…hopefully he can sign it as a Cub.
If you get a chance tell him
a lot of fans miss him, and miss what he brought to the team(more than batting avg.)
Thanks
PS
I hope he personally has a great series but loses all three games….I think that’s
fair isn’t it?.
Greg Quinton
MW: I believe that is quite fair. And yes, Reed is a fantastic human being.
- GregHi Mike
So now you got me spending some of my spare time researching Baseball.
Some interesting facts
Alex Rodriguez is simply not a clutch hitter, through Thursday, with Runners In Scoring Position A-Rod is hitting .229, and with RISP and two outs, Rodriguez is a paltry .190.
Daisuke Matsuzaka who is 8-0 with a 2.53 ERA only has five quality starts this season.
Adam Lind 25 yrs old (in July) with 175 AB’s AAA Int. League .337/. 392/.543
Chase Utley 25 yrs old
123 AB’s AAA Int league .285/.376/.512
Who knows if Lind can have the same success. One thing for certain, he won’t if not given a chance
MW: I’ll still take A-Rod.
- LarryDo you find it interesting that Reed Johnson has 28 RBI’s on the season which is more then anyone on the Blue Jays, and he has not even been playing everyday? I don’t know if to be happy for Johnson or really ashamed to be a Blue Jays fan.
MW: Amazing, isn’t it? And that’s with a batting average under .270, an obp under .350 and a slg under .400. He’s raking at the right time, though, hitting .375 with RISP. Be both.
- Jon BellMike, if there is a sore point in the general perspective of this Blue Jays club, it seems to surround J.P. Ricciardi.
The amount of focus on him is so far out of whack to the point of being ridiculous. The Ricciardi apologists seem to want to hang onto the club-fueled image of Ricciardi as Messiah. The bashers want to hold him responsible for everything from the overnight thunderstorm on down. It’s outrageous.
Ricciardi is a guy not unlike the 29 other general managers in the Major Leagues. He’s qualified, he’s generally competent, and he has his good days and his bad days. He has his share of successes and his share of failures, and those of us who fail to acknowledge either, be they the positives or negatives, are only fooling ourselves.
Honestly, Ricciardi isn’t as critical to what’s happening as so many of us want to hang on him. He’s just not important, folks.
MW: He’s in charge of who plays here and who doesn’t, so he’s kind of important. I think all the focus that’s on him is on him because of how available he is. He’s always willing to talk, to be quoted, to be out there.
- mike aHi Mike
Getting ready for the weekend series against the cubs.Was looking over the minor leagues and I wanted to ask you how much a difference in talent there is between Dunedin and Lansing.Also I keep hearing that J.P.has done anything since he has been here.Personally I like J.P because he comes on and talks to the fans every week I have never heard of another G.M who does that.I don’t believe for a second I know as much about baseball as he does.Whan he came here Rogers just bought the team from the beer salesmen the dollar was about halfthe american dollar and the team was in a mess.He has made mistakes but I think we are way ahead of where we were when he got here.I think the players got to start hitting when the pressure is on and the jays will do fine.Not even Dombroski is a genius in Detroit anymore.
mario
Go Jays!!!
MW: Lansing is a step below Dunedin, but often skipped by the collegians who go from Auburn to Florida.
- marioMike, before the article and blog responses yesterday it was obvious you are paid for by the Jays organization and need to defend almost everything they do on and off the field. Now it is VERY VERY obvious you are paid by the Jays organization. Have you ever listened to baseball talk shows in the US where the reporter is not tied to the organization? It is much more refreshing and realistic. I am not saying you have to agree with everyone or disagree with everyone but a fine balance would be much more refreshing, real something we could relate to. Real fans go through the motions of being optimistic and pesimistic with their team. I would love to be wearing the JP/Godfrey goggles you are wearing. I would also likely see a great team still in the race (?). In most cases you only agree with callers when they share your opinion. One thing is very clear to me and many others is sometimes you sound smart and accurate and other times you sound stupid and mis informed - just like most of your callers you are a mix of both worlds.
MW: I’m not paid by the Blue Jays. But would you like me to be optimistic after a win and pessimistic after a loss? Would you like me to agree with people who say the season in over in April, and then when they win 20 games in May agree with people who say they’re a great team and will probably win the World Series? I can’t do that, it’s reactionary, knee-jerk stupidity.
- MatthewMike,
I realize you’re not fishing for compliments but still I’d like to chime in as another who supports you.
I think there is great value in your work on the radio, as well as your blog postings. Jerry, Alan & yourself are a truly formidable team that we’re fortunate to have & as others have stated, your Jays Talks are often as entertaining as the games themselves.
Thank you kindly for continuing to provide excellent analysis & fan forums.
MW: Thanks.
- ColeIf Gibby makes $600,000 a year, I am wondering how much Pevey makes. Less than $100,000? Jays don’t pay their coaches well compared to other teams, do they?
MW: I don’t think anyone pays their coaches well, but I don’t know what they make.
- Beburghey mike
three questions
1) do you think if zito got going for the giants they would have the best rotation(cain,zito,lincicum).
2) i was reading me sports illistrated and it said the top 5 starting roations based on voting by players and boston was number one and toronto was not even on there! do you think just becuase were in canada we get excluded?
3) im not sure about this but i think kevin mench has been a good career lefty hitter so how come in games agenst leftys we see stiars in there insted of mench or wilkerson insted of mench?
MW: 1 - No. 2 - A little, but it’s also because the Jays have been out of the national consciousness south of the border for 15 years. 3 - We don’t. Mench plays against all the lefties.
- jeremyalso i play 3rd base for my highschool base ball team and i think the move jp made to get rolen was amazing better defender beter hitter and hey maybe he will hit more homers then gluas and its good that gluas is out considering he didnt want to be here and the mitchell report.
MW: He probably won’t hit more homers unless Glaus breaks down, but that’s the ONLY thing that Glaus does better than Rolen.
- jeremyJudging by history, Burnett will peel off a complete game 2 hit shutout tonight vs. the Cubs. He’s typically pretty good after a horrible start, like the one last Saturday against Baltimore.
Very inconsistent is Burnett, but worth tuning in for nonetheless.
MW: He’s not nearly as inconsistent as you think he is. Tonight was his 14th start, and the 10th in which he’s given up three runs or fewer.
- RickMike:
Just so I don’t distract you in the future - do you insist on periods between the letters for every acronym in common usage? I’m thinking of ones which have morphed into words in their own right in common usage like “NATO”, “JATO”, “PIN”.
Or is the distinction drawn that if they can be pronounced in their own right per the examples above (as opposed to “ATM”) then you can slide on the periods? It’s hard to alternate capital letters and periods you know - without accidentally typing “>” occasionally.
Is using “nuke” as a verb to describe warming something in a microwave permitted? That one is my favorite. Best invention in English in the 20th century. (If they had called the Canadian $2-coin the “DoubLoon” then I would have voted for that.)
Gee that wasn’t too basebally was it? Erm, let’s see, oh I know - I vote for Sal Fasano for manager. He gives a great interview.
MW: You can slide on the periods on all those. I only demand it on “p.s.” because it leads to a new thought.
- James (from the 'Shwa)Mike,
I’d like to comment on Lyle Overbay and the batting order.
At the start of the year you stated that you would bat Lyle at leadoff. At the time, I didn’t think that was the best idea because I thought that it would put him in the wrong mindset to break out of his early hitting slump. But after watching him after 68 games, I think batting leadoff is probably the best place for him. The approach he takes at the plate isn’t best suited for someone batting fifth; he’s just not aggressive enough. I’m referring to taking far too many first pitch strikes. I think Matt Stairs would be an excellent choice to bat fifth based on his aggressiveness and power.
Anyways, here’s my proposed batting order:
Overbay
Rios
Rolen
Wells
Stairs
Barajas
Wilkerson
Hill/Scutaro
Eckstein
I would give Rios a shot hitting second because over his career, that’s where he has had the most success. Or, I would bat Eckstein second simply because of his contact and bat Rios sixth behind Stairs. I think either lineup is well balanced and actually looks pretty darn good on paper.
MW: It’s a fine line-up. Shame it’ll never happen.
- ErnieHey Mike,
I don’t really understand how your perspective on certain players changes once they aren’t one Jays anymore.
When Thomas was here and people were criticizing him you pointed to his stats from last year, his track record and your patented “its early” explanation. Now that Thomas is gonzo, his signing was a mistake. Did you think it was a mistake the day he signed him? Or the day they released him? You certainly never called this move a mistake any time while he was on the team. Why do you have to wait until a player is off the team before you offer criticsm? To be this is just pussy cat journalism and I think you can do better. I am just being honest.
The same goes for Reed Johnson. Last year you were willing to make every excuse in the books for him due to injuries and his previous season’s stats. Now that Reed is gone, the guy is basically a lousy player who can’t hit righties (and always has been) in your books.
Your newfound opinions are interesting and maybe even correct, but why not own up and call a spade a spade while the player is on the team.
The fans will wonder why can’t Wilner criticize a player while he is on the team? Perhaps, Rogers won’t let you? If this is the case then we need a baseball telecast that is independent of team ownership.
MW: That would be very interesting if it were true. It’s not, though. You seem to be another one of the people who hear what they want to hear. The only time in my life that I have referred to Reed Johnson as anything but “a fantastic 4th outfielder” was during the 2006 season when he was lighting up and, I thought, earning a starting job. When Reed was struggling last year, it was the absolute truth that the guy had had his back cut open less than six months previous, and to expect him to return to his previous year’s form was ridiculous. I have never ever ever said that Reed Johnson is a lousy player but yes, he’s a very average hitter who can’t hit righties, and but for the first half of 2006, has always been. Thomas is gone, but even on the day he was released I was on the air saying that I think he’ll bounce back sometime around mid-May and have about the same season he did last year, and he was on the way to doing that before he got hurt. But how can you say the signing wasn’t a mistake when they paid him $18 million and change for one year and two weeks? Of course it was a mistake. Was it a mistake at the time? Maybe. And I said when they signed him that I was surprised they got in so early and didn’t wait for the market to set.
- StephenMike, I have a comment to throw into the “JP five-year plan” discussion/argument.
Earlier today one of The Fan shows carried an interview with Jim Devellano (sp?), of the Detroit Red Wings. During that interview, Mr. D. made the statement that when he first joined the Wings, (after winning three Stanley Cups with the NY Islanders) he made the firm promise to his ownership that they would win in Detroit in eight years (8). He then went on to state that it actually took FIFTEEN YEARS (15!!) before the Wings won under Mr. D’s watch — and since then (of course) he has a total of 4 Cup wins with the Wings.
All this to say — even IF JP had said he had a 5-year plan, it is not the “kiss of death” (for him or the Jays)that he hasn’t delivered on this “promise”.
And by the way, with all the JP haters out there digging away trying to “prove” that he DID say it, it seems to me that the fact they haven’t been able to come up with the “quote” is prima facie evidence that such a quote does not exist, and therefore that the alleged 5-year plan never existed.
MW: That’s only if you think they’ve been digging really hard.
- NormI really don’t understand why people would doubt that you are an unabashed homer.
Consider:
1) As late as last year I seem to recall that you were still defending the idiotic Luke Prokopec trade. Actually, you said that you “loved” it.
No objective commentator could “love” that trade from a Jays perspective.
2) Earlier this month, you had the audacity to suggest that A.J. had done nothing wrong when he mockingly tipped his cap to the booing throngs.
Ironically, the very moment you defended this action A.J. was admitting it was wrong for him to do. Awkward don’t you think?
3) I still chuckle about that late night appearance you made with Warren Sawkiw and Geoff Baker when your feeble apologies for the Jays were dismissed summarily by the entire panel.
Or how you stared at Sawkiw like he was a heretic when he told us what he really thought of the Jays.
Don’t get me wrong, Toth is an idiot. But to suggest that you are intelligent or informed or anything more than a gadfly/shill/apologist for the Jays, is a bit rich don’t you think?
Oh, one more thing, are you still telling people Toronto is “small market”? lol
MW: I loved the Luke Prokopec trade, still do. Funny that A.J. was apologizing for tipping his cap while I was saying I loved it, but I did. Toronto’s not small-market, but it’s medium-revenue. And it’s just sad that the fact that three people on a panel disagreeing with me means I’m wrong. If people in the right stood down because there were too many voices in opposition, this world would be a terrible place. By the way, how can an objective observer not love the Prokopec trade, without the benefit of hindsight?
- ChrisWould you say that the Jays have not had a legit starting SS since Tony Fernandez? (please don’t say that they have one in John McDonald, because that’s not true)
MW: Which edition of Tony?
- John“SOME PEOPLE”
Some people think it’s the manager’s fault if a team can’t score a run with bases loaded and no out.
Some people think that Gary carter is the next Jays manager just because he hugged them once.
Some people can’t come up with a valid argument to fire a manager but are stubborn enough to bring the topic everyday on the show they host.
Some people should stop talking about baseball because their knowledge is extremely poor and they annoy the listeners to the point where they are forced to break their radios.
Some people were ripped on their show today by a colleague and I am chuckling non-stop.
Ah! some people!
- BeburgWhat’s up with the feud between you and Toth? I didn’t hear it but I heard Toth on PTS sayin that you were all crying because Toth didn’t stick up for you or something? Sayin how since you dish it out all the time you ought to be able to take it when ppl are critical of you??
Is there more to this? What’s the story?
MW: Is that what Toth said? He wouldn’t have said that.
- TOMMYPSo you don’t believe that the Rays are for real because of their pitching, but what about if they load up at the deadline (maybe Sabathia)? They have more than enough young talent to make a major move.
MW: If they load up, things change, very obviously.
- GaryMike, here’s the thing. You don’t manage for the fans if you manage a winning team. If Stewart had worked out, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But he didn’t. So we are. The realpolitik of the situation is this: JP Ricciardi has failed to deliver us a playoff spot. He’s consistently failed to do that. We, the fans, are angry as hell, and Reed Johnson is probably a focus of that anger. He let Reed go, we say. And for what?! Often injured has-been Shannon Stewart. Given the temperature of the fanbase in TO, especially after the Leaf debacle, I think getting rid of a favourite like Johnson would be a dumb move unless the GM is absolutely convinced beyond all measure that he’s onto a winner. Because we’ve all had enough of losing in this town and we’re choking on it. Icing someone as loved as Johnson is a big ’so what, I don’t manage for you’ to the fans.
He’s right, he doesn’t and shouldn’t.
You’re right. JP Ricciardi doesn’t answer to us.
But it doesn’t matter. I venture to suggest that a large majority of Jays fans want him gone right now. Not because of Reed Johnson. But Reed Johnson will be a big contributory factor. He’s like a public speaker who can’t read a room. And those guys don’t get a lot of gigs.
MW: I disagree vehemently. There was no reason to believe that Shannon Stewart would be as bad as he’s been this season. Everyone calls him a has-been, but he’s only 34 and is coming off seasons in which he hit .293 and .290, and had hit under .290 exactly once since 1998. There was every reason to believe that Reed Johnson would be as average as he’s been this year. It was a baseball move, 100%.
- reyesHey Mike just a quick question about the decision to send Barajas in the bottom of the 6th. Was that Pevey’s decision to give him the go ahead around third or just a base running mistake by Barajas?? Hope thats not a stupid question. It just seems like not a good decision considering who’s running and how quickly Ecksteins base hit got through the hole and into shallow left. Not to mention that he was meat cake at home. At least from my perspective in my compfy chair at home. I guess thats why I’m looking for your opinion.
Take care.
MW: He was actually safe, believe it or not, but only because of a terrible tag by Geovany Soto. That wasn’t The Captain, Marty Pevey waved him in, and it was a terrible send, I thought.
- TroyMike do you visit the site http://www.firejoemorgan.com
if not you should check it out i know you’d love it. aswell as anyone else on this blog its a great site.
MW: I’m a big fan.
- Dan MooreDo you think that Vito from Hamilton is one of the most funnist guys on this blog? Anyways, I just heard PTS today and Mike Toth got absoulty destroyed by Jeff Blair on Gary Carter. Jeff Blair said that Mike Toth was on crack and is out of his mind by saying Gary Carter should manage the blue jays. I’m just wondering if you heard the conversation on PTS and what you think of it?
MW: I have heard about it, though I didn’t hear it, and knowing Blair, I expected it.
- andrewYo Mike. WE NEED PASSION ON THIS TEAM. JOHN GIBBONS HAS GOT TO GO. HE LACKS THE PASSION NEEDED TO MANAGE THE TORONTO BLUE JAYS AND THAT RELFECTS ON HIS PLAYERS. I THINK WE SHOULD HIRE GARY CARTER. SO WHAT IF HE HASN’T MANAGED A MAJOR LEAGUE CLUB, HE’S A HALL OF FAMER AND HAS BETTER STATS THEN JOHN GIBBONS. HE ALSO PLAYED IN CANADA FOR A LONG TIME, SO HE KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE THE PRESSURE IN WORKING FOR A CANADIAN MAJOR LEAGUE CLUB.
MW: Excellent idea,because we all know that the better you played in the majors, the better a manager you are. Just ask Jim Leyland, Tony LaRussa, Mike Scioscia, Terry Francona, Tommy Lasorda, Earl Weaver, and about a hundred other great skippers.
- antonAlright Mike. Seems Downs must be reading your blog. Please pass the Ketchup.
MW: Don’t comment angry, Vito!
- Vito From HamiltonWant to to see some bad luck? Check out what’s been happening with the Atlanta Braves. Chipper Jones just broke his face being hit with a ball…in BATTING PRACTICE.
MW: Last I heard they still weren’t sure it was broken. But that’s brutal.
- GaryMike, what do you think Bob McCown take is on John Gibbons? Does he think he should get fired, he is a good manager, bad manager, etc. We know he wants JP gone, but do you know his take on John Gibbons?
MW: No, I don’t. He takes calls for an hour every day, though, so you could ask him.
- andrewA standing ovation for Reed Johnson is a bit much wouldn’t you say?
MW: Nope. He was a beloved Blue Jay for five years. I expected it.
- AndyHey Mike on your way home tonight, don’t forget to visit Alice Fazoolies for some fine Italian cuisine.
MW: They’re closed by the time I leave.
- Jay MoneyAs well, Burnett making a good case for himself tonight. I;m not gonna gush about the back to back homers because it’a bout time, but that was nice to see. Ryan, owe him an apology too. Bruno, I luv ya bud!
MW: I took it out, but Vito linked to a video of Stevie Wonder’s “You Are The Sunshine Of My Life”
- Vito From HamiltonHey Mike, question for you — what’s your favourite team outside of the Blue Jays?
MW: Baseball team? I can have no favourites now that I’m a reporter. It’s kind of sad.
- LarryI went to tonight’s game vs the Cubs with my Dad and brother, it was fantastic, Just had a few thoughts
1. When was the last time Jays hit home runs in consecutive at bats?
2. We were sitting in Section 140, which is odd because Sections 130-140 were all sold out, we usually sit right behind the bullpen.
3. There were 4 very lovely people from CHicago ahead of us, and we enjoyed talking to them all game, but this was ruined by the 4 drunken morons - university age blokes like myself - who were swearing, dropping the f word every 30 seconds, one dumped half a cup of beer down my back because I wasn’t cheering with them. My dad got angry, which sucks, I wanted him to have fun tonight, this was his fathers day weekend gift. And two rows ahead of us were a 2yr old and a 5 yr old - wearing Lansing Lugnut jerseys, btw, - I just wish the people behind us had a) less to drink and b) sworn less.
4. I’ve never heard skydome so loud - which is kinda funny ,since they were playing Dave Winfield’s please for noise before the game.
5. American fans were complaining that all they could buy is Bud and Bud Light… any way we can convince Rogers to bring in Mill St? or Creemore? or Unibroue? or Wellington?
6. Sorry for the novel, Mike
MW: No problem, sorry about the drunken louts. Some people just can’t handle it.
- Sam McLeanI had to leave so didn’t see the middle of the game. Did AJ tip his hat when he came out of the game tonight and did he get an ovation?
MW: No, and not especially.
- JayThat was a fun to watch game. 2 HR? Nobody expected that I’d reckon. I could probably find out if I wasn’t to lazy to look it up, but what’s the Jays record on flashback Fridays now?
MW: In the baby blues, the Jays are now 4-2.
- Sean CourtWell then how come Shannon Stewart never got a standing ovation when he returned? During his first stint with the Jays, Stewart was twice the player Johnson was.
MW: He was, indeed, but he was never even remotely the type of fan favourite that Johnson was.
- AndyHe did say it! and I have proof.. check out thursday show on the podcast and hear him with dan shulman.. thats who he said it to and wanted shulmans opinion..
i do not lie Mikey boy
MW: I’ll check the logger. I want to hear it anyway.
- TOMMYPIn response to post number 47, what player(s) on this team are you willing to criticize now. I would like to know so that when they leave next year we can verify that they didn’t become a bad player the day they left Toronto. I would say Overbay is probably victim number 1 - He doesn’t do anything well except walk, which would be ok if in addition he could hit in any sort of timely situation. Agreed? Let’s give Overbay a rating out of 10 this year. I say 3.5. You?
Then there is the Grim Reaper Alex Rios. How would you rate Rios’ performance out of 10. His 6 homer, 60 RBI pace probably merits a 2.5. Where do you put him?
I can’t name a single alleged offensive core player of this team (Hill, Wells, Overbay, Rios, Rolen etc) who is having anywhere near a career year or even an average year (leaving aside possibly Rolen depending on expectations, which I would say 3 homers at this point are not). Wells might be having an average year if he had been healthy all year but he wasn’t. And his average year is not worth 17 million a year. This will soon be another JP mistake, although he will be long gone when we are calling your show blaming him for making an non all star one of baseball’s highest paid.
Bottom line, the offense sucks. We should be especially critical of Rios and Overbay (he isn’t even an average hiting first baseman - but JP locked him up long term, the guy likes walks I guess), so here is your chance to take your best shot at those two (or others)..You can even take a shot at me (a joke). Do it for the fans.
One other point, Alomar didn’t get a standing O on opening day (deserved or not), the fact that a bit player like Reed got one really speaks volumes about what he meant to the fans. JP clearly misread the situation, not everything shows up in a boxscore, unfortunately, JP has never understood that, that’s why his teams’ tend to be heartless and devoid of character. I know you don’t believe in character on a baseball team, but in baseball as in life intangibles do matter. JP doesn’t get that, another reason he won’t have a job at the end of year and will never be a GM again. Agreed?
MW: So few people are self-aware enough to refer to themselves as a joke, it’s refreshing. Funny, actually, because you made the point that I turn on players after they leave, I explained to you that that wasn’t true and how that wasn’t true, but you just ignored that and continued on with your incorrect hypothesis. You’re also confusing “bad year” with “bad player”. They’re not the same. Pretty much every Blue Jay hitter is having a bad year. And as for the Reed-J.P. thing, I don’t believe J.P. misread the situation. He knew exactly how much people loved Reed and how the move to release him would go over.
- StephenHi,
I didn’t chime in over the last couple days, mostly because my sentiments have been echoed by others. I really enjoy the blog and due to my shiftwork I haven’t been able to catch most of the games and the blog really helps to stay up to date. I just wanted to add that I agree with Mike about the use of the phrase “how are you doing?” as a greeting. Without getting into too much detail, I work as a park warden. I don’t mind if people ask me how I am, but many people ask as I’m driving by, knowing that I can’t possibly give a proper answer, or ask and don’t expect an answer. It’s not a big deal, but I know where Mike is coming from and I sympathyze. If you haven’t experienced it over and over on a daily basis before I can also understand why it might not seem that bad. Personally, one of my pet peeves is when people say “we” when referring to the Jays. While I am a fan I am certainly not on the team. Again, most probably don’t feel the same way about that, but I don’t really care. On another note, I also think it is funny to hear people call Mike a J.P. apologist. People seem to either selectively listen or selectively remember…or perhahps misremember as our friend Roger might say. Well, I’ve said my piece. I’ve noticed a few Robs and a Rob H., so I’ll go with last name from now on. Again, really enjoy the blog and the bog family that has developed. Thanks Mike.
MW: Thanks!
- HoweyMike in your response to post 54(Reyes) you mention that Shannon is coming off a .290 and a .293 season in terms of batting average, Howerver what you failed to say was that in the season that he batted 293. he only had 174 @ bats, had he had more @ bats there is a possibilty that the .293
would have gone down. 174 @ bats is way to little for anyone to deem that he had a good season. Are you not the same one that always say’s it’s a long season. .293 in 174 @ bats basically means he had a good start. Like i said Mike you tell convienant truths.
By the way Reed Johnson does alot that don’t show up in the stat’s. This is why stats cannot be used for everything.
One thing I remember clearly is Reed while here, was a great hitter with two outs and there is plenty more.
MW: Yes, Shannon had an injury-shortened season in 2005 while hitting .293. So let’s drop that season from our consideration. In the last 9 seasons, not including 2006, Stewart has hit .290, .274, .304, .307, .303, .316, .319, .304 and .279. Better? As for Reed, I couldn’t find pure “two out” numbers, but with runners on and two out, he’s a career .269 hitter. With runners in scoring position and two out, he’s a career .264 hitter. Your convenient truths aren’t even true.
- NeilMike:
Just a quick question … if there was no reason to suspect that Shannon Stewart would have a bad year since he’s only 34 and was coming off seasons of batting .293 and .294 or whatever it was why were there not a bunch of teams interested in acquiring him? Why not even a second team other than the Jays? Did he just slip through the cracks of every GM in baseball? Did they maybe see something that that Jays didn’t or was this just a huge coup by JP in getting him cheap similar to Wilkerson and Mench? Obviously JP felt more comfortable with Stewart and his other team of left fielders than using his apparent future star in Adam Lind this season.
If he wasn’t mentioned in the Mitchell report, do you think JP would have taken up Jay Gibbons on his minimim salary offer to play again? I heard that he sent a letter to all 30 GM’s asking for another shot and we know JP loves the aging reclamation project.
MW: I don’t think the Mitchell Report had anything to do with the Jays’ disinterest in Jay Gibbons. And why did no one else want Shannon Stewart? I don’t know. Why hasn’t Kenny Lofton signed?
- Peter B.re: thanks for listening
Well you should thank us for listening because your show is almost unlistenable (is that a word?).
re: Reed Johnson
I found your comments at the conclusion of Reed’s first at bat last night absolutely disgusting. The fans were cheering lustily for Reed. I wager that if he had of smoked one out they would have contined to cheer. Your comment to the effect that some cheered as a welcome and then some cheered because he grounded out was just too self serving.
Which brings me to the whole RJ scenario. In general I find your comments on this topic duplicitous. It was obviously a mistake to let RJ go. My argument: RJ is playing while Shannon is hurt and not. RJ has a higher average, on base percentage and slugging percentage than Shannon. RJ is also a faster and better defensive player. So, as it stands now, the Jays would be a better team with him than without him. Based on stats this cannot be argued. Yet you lie and contradict yourself. The proof is that a year ago you were extolling the virtues of RJ. Yes he was out of the lineup. But a year ago you went on and on about how much of a difference RJ would make were he in the lineup. You were basically explaining away the Jays poor offense of last year by saying they missed and needed RJ at the top of the lineup as a “catalyst”. But now you espouse that he was not needed by the Jays. So obviously you were lying last year or you are lying this year, becasue RJ is basically the same player and the Jays have basically the same anemic offense. I am not even a Jays fan. I just wish they had better (and more honest) people covering the team.
MW: I never said any of that stuff about Reed Johnson last year. I have never believed, despite tons of argument from fans, that Reed is anything more than a great 4th outfielder (perhaps the best in the game). But you hear what you want to hear. Johnson is a very, very, very, very average player. You’re likely one of those who applauds Reed for “doing whatever it takes to get on base” while ignoring the fact that he barely gets on base more than the major-league average. I defy you to find even ONE instance where I referred to Reed as a catalyst, or said that the team missed him atop the line-up. You won’t, it’s never happened.
- reneYou are right, though, in that Johnson’s numbers are better than Stewart’s. They’re still not good, though.
And you COMPLETELY misunderstood my comments about Johnson’s ovation, though it doesn’t matter because you’re only going to take from this what you want, regardless of what I say. I said that I thought the standing O was terrific, a great tribute to a guy the fans love, but I thought it was equally wonderful that the fans cheered after the groundout - not because it was Reed who got out, but because it was an out in the 9th inning of a one-run game the Jays were leading. And who has your radio jammed up when I’m on? If it’s unlistenable, you’re more than welcome to change the station.
Don’t comment angry? What am I…Bill Bixby? Just razzin’ ya, Mike!
- Vito From HamiltonNeil, Neil, Neil,
There you go again spouting off about something without checking the facts, facts, facts. This time you have falsely alleged that Reed Johnson was/is a great 2 out hitter. Well, I hate to break it to you, but here are his numbers in various situations up to and including Friday the 13th’s game. The numbers presented are AVG/OBA/SLG:
Overall: .280/.342/.406
2 outs: .267/.332/.369
2 outs RISP: .264/.331/.352
Late and Close: .224/.297/.313
RISP = Runners In Scoring Position
I hate doing this because I really like the all-out hustle that Reed brings to every game, but he is a fourth outfielder and should only be used against LHP, unless of course Eric Patterson is your only other option (ick!).
As you can clearly see his numbers with 2 outs are not as good as his overall numbers. With RISP and 2 outs he dips a little more, and he completely bottoms out in Late Inning Pressure Situations. It’s just another lesson in how selective our memories are. We see what we want to see and we remember what we want to remember, and that is why stats ARE needed: to remove the selective biases that we all have, so we can see the truth, even if it hurts.
- Tom JacksonMike I don’t understand what you mean that my convienant truths aren’t even true, what I mean when I say that you tell convienant truths, Is that you quote stats that sound
good, however does not affect the present, alot of the current Blue Jay players are as good as they are going to get or are on the down side,
you only quote stats from years past just to make a point. I doesn’t matter about yesterday it matters about now and tommorow. Just because a player is great for a few years doesn’t mean he is going to continue on that greatness. Circumstances change especially when age injuries or some other unexpected circumstance kicks in. I will continue to say, What you seem to think is that what’s on paper says it all, However If this years Blue Jays is not indicative of how misleading paper can be, than I don’t know what is.
MW: What I meant is that you said that Reed Johnson is a great hitter with two outs, and the numbers show that he is not at all. That’s why I said your convenient truths aren’t even true. You can get all hung up on what people are doing over two months if you want, but the true indication of what people can do is what they have done. I’m not talking about 5,6,7 years ago, though.
- NeilMike Why is it when so many people confirm that who have said something, you have this condesending response which you say to people “You Here What You Want to Hear”
You always play the victem. If you listen to yourself on the radio and read these posts you will realise that you have never been humble enough to ever apologize or even say that You don’t remember saying something, that someone is alleging you have said. You make the fanbase look like complete liars and that they are out to get you.
Guys like Jerry Howarth are very humble and balanced in their opinion of the blue jays and have not glorified J.P to the degree you do, that is why broadcasters of that nature have alot of respect in this indusrty from their own and from the fans.
By the way
I agree with many that say you rip people when they are gone. You rip Gord Ash and you were not even in the booth while he was here.
MW: You should never say never, because you’ll never be right. I do believe that pretty much everybody hears what they want to hear, because so often people tell me I have said things that I haven’t. It happens all the time. I don’t think anyone is lying, or worse “out to get me”, but I think that very often people think I say things that I just plain don’t. You can see that all over these comments section. I wasn’t in the booth when Ash was here, it’s true, but I was certainly a reporter covering this team, not that I would have needed to be to have formed an opinion. But again, Neil, you’re twisting things to suit your needs. No one has talked about me ripping people who used to be here in Toronto after they’re gone - the reference was to ripping callers after they’ve been hung up on.
- Neil@Tom Jackson, but also Mr Wilner:
Facts are important, but so are fans. Fans (remember the word comes from ‘fanatic’, which means ‘not rational’) picked something up in the Reed Johnson era that is not based on facts or stats, but that organisations like the Blue Jays ignore at their peril, especially in a ‘non-baseball’ town.
That ’something’ is that Reed has usually got the most out of his modest (by MLB standards) talent. Everyone knows he’s not actually a ‘franchise’ player (I hate that phrase by the way). For most of his time in TO he was in a platoon for goodness sake! But fans have a more intangible, irrational, gut feeling about the guy. But that’s really IMPORTANT! You’d be nowhere without completely irrational reactions to players by fans. An organisation with any sense tries to nurture that. Sure, if you can replace Reed Johnson with someone tangibly better, then go get that. We’ll all forget Reed when Shannon Stewart has a 30 homers and 100 RBIs. But if you are not _absolutely sure_ you are trading for better (and the best they can have hoped for (wrongly as it turned out), was a marginal upgrade, then you MUST think REALLY HARD about throwing away someone with a bit of character, who actually looks like he’s enjoying himself on the field most days, and who your fans like. Reed sold seats, and made the Jays feel a bit like a real Toronto team.
I’ve only been following baseball since 2000, because I lived in Europe until then. I hate soccer (why do you think I emigrated?), but teams and fans understand a bit more about the importance of irrationality over there. A very large part of Manchester supports Manchester City, not United, - for no logical reason at all. It’s just ‘fandom’, history and culture - stupid fact-free stuff. The Blue Jays feel too much like a branch of MacDonald’s dumped on the Gardiner, with no ties to the city around them. The fans really WANT to love the Blue Jays, but it’s hard to do so when, year after year, you watch an average team be average in an average way. Even if the Jays were still average, but the organisation managed to look like they gave a damn about Toronto and Canada, and getting the most out of their talent, and actually encouraging some genuine irrational stupid, ignorant enthusiasm for the team,* then I think Mike Wilnner would get fewer of the ‘the team sucks, fire everyone’ phone calls.
The root of the “Battle of the Fan” between Wilner and Toth is that Wilner is the ultimate cerebral fact-driven sports journalist and Toth is a ‘fan’. I listen to Wilner and find it impossible to fault his logic. I then listen to Toth (and also McCown, who has said very similar things for the last two years) and think ‘hell yeah! - Fire these bums now!’ Because I am sick, tired and above all BORED of this team being average in a boring way.
Only now it’s worse than ever, and with less excuse than in my few years of watching the team. They’ve got an insanely good pitching roster that is getting p**sed into the wind by a load of hitters who - on the evidence of at least a season and a half of play (and not just a few weeks of the season, as Mike Wilner suggests) look like they will never get the job done as they stand.
If we were always rational about our teams we’d all support the Red Sox or the Yankees or Manchester United or Brazil, or Tiger Woods, or whatever. Seeing who is best is in a sport is not difficult. We only support the Jays for the irrational reason that we believe they are ‘our’ team. If they bore us to tears and trade all the colourful characters out of the team, play in the US on Canada day, it’s hard to maintain enthusiasm. I’d almost prefer to lose with Reed Johnson than win with Shannon Stewart. No disrespect at all to Stewart, but he is not Mr Personality.
I want to love the Canadian Jays. At the moment I feel like they’re a cousin from Texas who I really like, but he’s kind of boring.
(*and I don’t mean the ‘This is Toronto’ bit in the 9th inning, which the stadium announcer always blows by saying it like he’s being forced to say ‘this is Guantanamo’. Do they do it any more anyway? Full disclosure - I have not made it to a game in 18 months.)
MW: You went to a game 18 months ago? In January of 2007? I’m with you on your comments about fandom and its relationship to irrationality, and you showed it to its greatest effect by saying that you’d rather lose with Reed Johnson than win with Shannon Stewart. That statement, and I hate to say this after such a well-written and well thought-out comment, is idiotic.
- BenAlso, I have to tell you, I doubt anyone ever paid to come see Reed Johnson play baseball, and it IS just two months, not a season and a half. Take an actual look at what’s gone on.
So being offensive to one person is ok, just not a lot of people. Gotcha.
MW: Right.
- Dan WGood job making fun of a guy and getting your own math wrong in the process. I guess in Mike Wilner’s world 18 months from June 15, 2008 is January 2007.
“and it IS just two months, not a season and a half. Take an actual look at what’s gone on.”
Yeah, like with Wells. And Rolen. And Wilkerson. And Overbay. And Mench.
MW: Wells hasn’t been an issue this year, and Overbay is in the top 20 in the league in OBP. The guys who came through last year were Rios, Hill and Thomas, none of whom have been doing so this year. And how is January 2007 not 18 months earlier than June 2008?
- Dan W@Ben,
Please go back and read my post. I stated that I HATED TO DO THIS because I really like Reed Johnson. Neil said Reed Johnson was A GREAT 2 OUT HITTER, but the numbers don’t bear that out at all. I can’t stand it when people state things as fact that are just not true. It doesn’t make me any less of a Reed Johnson fan. I was on my feet in the 500 level the night “Sparky” returned from back surgery last year and made a game-saving catch and was in the stands for his lead off/walk off performance on Father’s Day, 2003 against the Cubs. Showing Neil’s statement to be false does not make me any less of a fan of Reed Johnson. It just makes me a fan of objective evidence.
MW: Now even Tom the intern is getting the “hear what they want to hear”.
- TomMike,
Oh well, at least I’m in good company. ;)
Just call me Joe Friday or that $@%*head that Mike refers to as his intern. I don’t care and to quote others “I’m a big boy”.
- TomYou can’t pick and choose whether to use a 2 month span or 8 month span on a case by case basis, you need to be consistent. And if you choose the 8 months, all the guys I mention are pretty bad. If you pick the 2 months, then there are others who have been pretty terrible.
And wow, I don’t know what to say about the 18 month thing. Count it out Mikey, I know you can do it!
MW: June is the 6th month of the year, January is the first. There are 12 months in a year. OK, so maybe 18 months earlier than June is December. The point still stands.
- Dan WMike -
“MW: You went to a game 18 months ago? In January of 2007?”
Ouch - I can’t count above 10 without taking my socks off. Not much hope of me making sense of baseball stats then!
Actually I went to one at the end of 2006 season (I think).
- BenMike,
You asked why, without the benefit of hindsight, any objective person wouldn’t “love” the Luke Prokopec trade?
It took me a couple of days to stop laughing but I’m finished snickering now. The short answer is this trade was a pure salary dump with a unique twist.
JP traded Quantrill, arguably the best set up man in the league at the time. Most GMs could net at least a medium prospect like LP from that alone.
Instead JP decided to throw in his own prospect - Izturis - for a pitcher some number cruncher told him was a great prospect. The results were entirely predictible.
A better question is why would anybody not on the Rogers payroll love a salary dump that actually cost the Jays a blue chip prospect and returned nothing?
Heres another question. I remember McCowan, Ferguson and Shulman hosting the equivalent of your show, and none of them generated the animosity you do.
Q. Is that because you are inherently less honest than them or is that because Labatts didnt own the radio station they worked for, and as a result, cheerleading wasn’t in their job description?
I tend to think its the latter.
MW: You’re entitled to think that, but then why would you ever listen to me? Prokopec wasn’t a mediocre prospect. He was a 23 year-old with a career big-league WHIP of about 1.33 with 25 major-league starts who had dominated AA as a 22 year-old in 2000. Those guys are gold, and to get him, Ricciardi gave up an aging, overpaid, middle reliever and a great defensive shortstop who couldn’t hit. It was a terrific, aggressive gamble. As for those other guys, I think way more people hate McCown than hate me (obviously, way more people love him, too, than love me), Shulman is Shulman - best in the business - and Fergie was nice to everybody.
- Chris@Tom
I never suggested you were being unfair to Reed Johnson. I was more using your post as a starting point for my own only partially related rant, so I wasn’t so much criticizing you as saying that, well, the Jays exist to entertain us, and in fact to entertain the most baseball-ignorant person in the crowd as much as the stats-wizard. Players like Reed who can create some sort of fan reaction, in a town where the sound of tumbleweed in the outfield is as common as cheering (ok, that’s OTT, I admit), are important EVEN if their numbers suck. The perception is arguably more important than the reality! That’s why I really wish JP had thought twice about just leaving someone like Reed to slink away on a coin toss for Shannon Stewart.
Give me this stat if you can find it. Mike doubted that Reed got people to the ballpark. I can only guess - but how many shirts with “Johnson” on the back sold the last three years, and how many (pro rata) with “Stewart”?
- BenFor the record, the “aging middle reliever” made 89 appearances 2 years after JP’s salary dump and led NL relievers with a 1.75 era.
I guess he aged gracefully.
Izturis, won a gold glove and made the NL all-star team.
Prokopec signed back with the Dodgers less than 12 months following the trade and never pitched in the majors again.
He went 2-9 with the Jays. More importantly to you obviously, his WHIP was 1.6. He is now herding sheep in Australia. Guess I don’t know what a mediocre prospect is.
I listen to Jays Talk because its the only thing the media serves up to ball fans in this town. I’m like a starving man at a foodbank, I keep coming back for more but I never enjoy it.
MW: Boy, hindsight is pretty cool, isn’t it?
- ChrisMike you are a professional sophist! I hope they pay you well.
First, I make the argument against that trade pretending I don’t have the benefit of hindsight.
You then make incorrect statements about three of the players involved. When I use stats to show your assertions aren’t true, you pretend everything I said was based on hindsight.
Could we pleeeeeeeeeease get Dan Shulman back!!!!
MW: You’re big on the insults, and it speaks ill of you. Regardless, since an acceptable definition for “sophist” is “philosopher”, I’ll gladly accept. And, no, they don’t pay me well. While you did pretend that you didn’t have the benefit of hindsight, I answered without the benefit of hindsight as well. You then decided to discuss what the players had done after the trade, hence my comment. Where did I lose you?
- Chrissophist - “a captious or fallacious reasoner” according to websters online dictionary….a pretty tame insult in the grand scheme of things.
Obviously when you painted Quantrill as aging and overpaid you made his subsequent performance relevant.
If you had worked for the Oilers in the late 80s, I’m sure you’d have built a Jimmy Carson statue when they dumped Gretzky’s salary.
Anyway, Luke Prokopec — Rest In Peace.
MW: If you’re not talking in hindsight, then Quantrill was an aging, overpaid middle reliever, with no place on a team going in the direction the Jays were. As Canadian as he is, you can’t have a middle reliever making 6% of your payroll when your first baseman is making 36%. If you’re talking in hindsight, his subsequent performance is relevant.
- Chris@Chris,
Sorry, but you are using 100% hindsight by quoting what the players did AFTER the trade was made.
Paul Quantrill was a 33 year old relief pitcher with middle relief stuff, who signed a 3 year $9.6 million contract on August 3, 2001, two months before Gord Ash was fired. For reference, Scott Downs just signed a 3 year $10 million contract in the ‘07/’08 offseason. We’re not even going to discuss who has better stuff between those two because it’s plain to see for anyone who’s ever watched baseball and Quantrill’s deal was signed 6+ years before Downs’. Since then the market for pitching of any kind has gone berserk, and if you add in the fact that Scott Downs is a lefty, you can see that Gord Ash clearly overestimated Quantrill’s value. J.P.’s orders were to strip the payroll down to $50 million ASAP. Quantrill was definitely on the hit list and I am surprised he wasn’t the first one out the door instead of Billy Koch.
I cannot believe we still have somebody pining for Cesar Izturis, but with hindsight anything is possible I guess. In almost 2000 AB in the minor leagues at the time he was traded, he had batted .262/.294/.333 (AVG/OBA/SLG). You don’t have to go very far for a reference point that illustrates the degree of suckitude in those numbers. He occasionally plays shortstop on the current team: John McDonald, who in 2500 minor league AB hit .261/.321/.329. Yes, let that sink in. In their respective minor league careers Johnny Mac outhit Cesar Izturis and he plays better defense, despite Izturis’ GG. Ok, Izturis is a better runner, but evidently not good enough to steal first base.
Luke Prokopec was converted to pitcher from the outfield in 1997 at age 19, and he shot through the Dodgers system earning a promotion in September of 2000, at age 22. That’s a prodigy. His minor league numbers are extremely similar to a current beloved Blue Jay: Shaun Marcum. The only difference comes in their control. Prokopec walked 2.47 per nine innings in his minor league career, which is very good. Marcum was insanely good, walking only 1.47/9 IP! Other than that, pretty damn similar. Both of them also had trouble with the long ball in their first extended exposure to the big leagues (2007 Marcum: 1.53 HR/9 IP, 2001 Prokopec: 1.76 HR/9 IP). Prokopec’s major league DL profile at the time of the trade had 1 trip to the DL for a finger blister. There was no indication that he was about to get struck down at age 24, by an elbow impingement. The Jays didn’t turn their backs on Marcum when he had gopher ball struggles. Please explain to me why J.P. shouldn’t have gone after a live armed 24 year old starting pitcher, with no major injury history and 5 years of pitching wear on his arm. Oh, right you would’ve advised him not to because you consulted your crystal ball, which told you he would go 2-9 with a 6.50ish ERA and suffer a career ending injury. Can you help me pick my 6/49 numbers on Saturday? I can’t wait to get my hands on that $27 million.
Then, there was Chad Ricketts, a 27 year old minor league pitcher with a live arm. Like Prokopec, he had more strikeouts than hits allowed in his minor league career. He was good at keeping the ball in the yard, had walked a shade over 3 (3.07) per nine innings and struck out a shade under 9 (8.96). He had 58 career minor league saves at the time of the trade, so his minor league managers must’ve seen something in him. He never threw a pitch in the big leagues, but he was more like the throw-in that you try to catch lightning in a bottle with.
Obviously, this trade did not work, duh. Tell me something I don’t know. But to say it wasn’t right at the time to move an expensive 33 year old middle reliever and a crappy hitting shortstop for a couple of very good looking arms, one of whom was admittedly older than the typical prospect, and one of whom looked like a solid starting pitcher with just a shade over one year of service time on a low mileage arm is ludicrous, hindsightish, Monday morning quarterback garbage.
I’m not sure why we have to re-visit something that happened over 6 years ago. Oh, yeah because it wound up as a completely one-sided win for the Dodgers, and it’s further proof that J.P. sucks and has always sucked. AT THE TIME, it looked like a pretty good deal for both teams, and that is the only way to analyze these things, unless you’re the second coming of Nostre-freaking-damus, but he tended to deal in generalities rather than specifics, like most soothsayers, fortune tellers, and astrologists. Sorry for the rant Michael. Just had to get that off my chest.
MW: Well, I had said all that stuff, just more briefly, but thanks anyway.
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- Roddy