6:15 PM Eastern
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The Jays didn’t lose! Kidding…
Caught a little bit of Jays talk on AM 980 in London today, There was one statement I caught that perked my ears… it came after a caller was on another ‘fire Gibbons’ rant, and you remarked to the called that (in reference to Gibbons) that you ‘like the guy’. Personal reasons aside, I don’t think I’ve ever heard you give a reason as to why he should stay as manager… only that he shouldn’t be fired because he can’t control the actions of his players. So why should he stay? What has he done that’s so great as to warrant him remaining the manager?
I tend to agree with a commenter yesterday that an entire team of players performing below their career averages is evidence of something more probelematic than a mere ’slump’ or coincidence. I’m not in the locker room, but it appears obvious to many that somehting needs to change to break the maliase.
Finally, I’d like to present some numbers for you… specifically, the Jays road record under our current manager:
2007: 34-47
2006: 37-44
2005: 37-44
I’ll leave 2004 off because he inherited a team at the end of a season and it wouldn’t be fair to him to include it. To never have anything close to a good road record speaks volumes to a a team’s focus, which falls directly back to the manager. I’m sure these number are right around league average for road records, but if the team is content on being average then that’s a problem.
MW: Of course, their home record was among the best in baseball the last two seasons (50-31, 49-32). Why does a poor road record speaks volumes about a team’s focus? I would think it’d be easier to be focused on the road than at home since there are no distractions with friends and family and so on.
- KevinMike,
Why are you always using stats to always beat listeners over the head? I admit that baseball is more numbers heavy than, sayn hockey. But I think baseball has become overly reliant on statistics. While they can reveal “truths” about the game, I don’t think they settle as many arguments as you would like to think. Stewart hits .290 his last two years. What are his chances of hitting .290 this year? Who knows? He’s stinking out the joint now. Maybe he’ll hit better than Reed — that’s a reasonable calculation. But he could have a bad year. Players vary in their performance, and that, too, is measurable by statistics. (hey, how ’bout quoting the standard deviation of Stewart’s OPS next time!)
In my opinion, you invest too much faith in these numbers as the ultimate arbiter of what is truth in baseball. As a friendly request, I would like to see you ease off listeners who disagree with you if you’re only going to throw numbers back at them. It’s not good radio, amigo. Mention the numbers, sure, but for every stat, there is another stat that can be found to contradict it.
MW: If you’re going to say that despite the fact that Shannon Stewart hit .298 over a 12-year career and hit .290 the last two seasons that his chances of hitting .290 this season are unaffected, and it’s as likely as not that he’ll repeat his performance, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course he could have a bad year, anyone could, but you go with the people who are likeliest not to, and track record is a major, major indicator of that.
- MerlinDoes Monday’s double-header mean Purcey gets the call-up for Friday night vs. Philly? Can’t imagine you want either Marcum or Burnett going on short rest.
MW: Without an off-day coming, they’d have to make a move (or start Tallet and make it a Charlie Wholestaff day), unless either Burnett or Marcum doesn’t make it out of the 5th or something.
- AriWhen was the last time the Jays played a doubleheader?
MW: Sept. 27, 2005 at Boston - lost the opener, won the nightcap.
- SteveMike, what do you not like about Gord Ash about the job he’s done. Can you give me his top 5 worst moves of all time. Also can you tell me how many grade A prospects the A’s recieved from Aizona for the Dan Haren trade and list me their names. Cause I’m just wondering what we could get for A.J burnett if we shopped him.?
MW: Not close to what the A’s got for Haren. Top 5 worst moves? Off the top of my head: Trading David Wells for an injured Mike Sirotka, who never threw a pitch as a Jay; trading Michael Young for Esteban Loaiza; signing Loaiza to a three-year deal for big money; signing Joey Hamilton to a three-year deal for big money; signing Homer Bush to a three-year deal for big money. There’s more, though.
- andrewSo whoever needed a mental break, ala Aaron Hill, has got one. A rain-out can never be a bad thing.
With Wells gone, Blue Jays outfielding will be really really average. Rios is certainly a step slower than Wells at CF and whoever Jays put on either side of him are gonna be mediocre at best. Are you concerned?
MW: Not much. Wilkerson is a good outfielder, despite his inability to pick up several ground balls Saturday night, and Rios is a fine CF, he’s just no Vernon. The outfield is still very good in centre and right, it’s just no longer great. Nothing has changed in left.
- BeburgHi Mike,
I was the first time caller today who asked about Marcum/McGowan’s contract situation …. One thing I meant to ask but forgot to was - what type of money do you think these guys will require/demand to be locked up long term?
If the lofty numbers you expect AJ Burnett will garner in the open market are accurate, I would expect M&M would net even more due to more upside/younger/less injury prone …
Will the Jays be able to afford to keep both Marcum and McGowan long term?
MW: Yes, they will, because they’re still five years away from being able to command that kind of money. If they were to sign long-term deals in the off-season, they’d be along the lines of the one that Aaron Hill signed last month.
- Colelistening to mike wilner talk about not firing john gibbons, and it’s the player’s not hitting is ridiculous!!! why do teams need managers?? they may as well just hire cheap minor league managers and save money. the cubs hire pinella and win a pennant. the tigers hire leyland and win a pennant. gibbons is an 80 win manager that’s it!! time for a change!!! to think a manager has very little influence just doesn’t make sense. i thought you were an expert on baseball??
MW: The Tigers, under Jim Leyland, have a worse record than the Blue Jays do right do, despite having the team that many thought was the best in the game going into this season. Piniella has a fine track record, but he once threw Randy Johnson into a locker in Seattle in a fit of pique. A manager is only as good as his players are playing.
- carmenSlightly off topic, but with regards to the McDonald injury (possibly grabbing a seam in the turf), why not go to an all dirt infield like in Tampa Bay? It looks better and plays more like almost every other ballpark in the league, and could cut down on injuries like this.
MW: I’m not sure they could do it because of the multi-purpososity of the building.
- BrettWe all know Stewart’s career numbers. But have you cited the numbers that might predict an off year? The guy is getting on in years. There is a risk of breakdown, which may or many not be quantifiable to any degree (I think BP does). All his plus .300 years were in his 20s. He hit .275 back in 2005. There is a very real chance he’s in that neighbourhood again — if we’re lucky! You talk as if it’s certain he’s going to hit .290. It just isn’t. There’s a decent chance of it, but you ‘d be well served by acknowledging the uncertainty of the situation. You usually don’t and you come off sounding arrogant.
I see there are some other folks on here on your case about how your treat callers. Dude, you will forget more baseball than I will ever know, but I would encourage you to blend your distinctive style with something more akin to Andy Frost on Leaf Talk. He lets the ranters have their peace and deals with them charitably, not unlike how a decent cop might treat a drunk. Point out some possible flaws in their argument, but I think the show would have a better feel if you gave people more credit — even if you think they’re wrong.
Carry on.
MW: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it’s true, but a lot of opinions are based on facts that are simply not true, and I will point that out. I have never said that Stewart is guaranteed to hit .290 again, or even .275, but the fact is that he’s been a much better hitter than Reed Johnson over the course of both of their careers, and that seems to be the point that keeps coming up. I let the ranters rant, usually, and I’m a big fan of Andy Frost’s (fantastic guy!), and I ALWAYS give people credit for being wrong!
- MerlinMike, I have to admit I couldn’t disagree with the caller today who was discussing Gibbons’ leadership. You are correct that we don’t know what is said behind closed doors in the clubhouse or office, but what signs do we have that his leadership is effective other than the fact people think Gibby is a ‘good guy’. I think you are incorrect that change for the sake of change does not make sense….sometimes change for the sake of change is exactly what the doctor ordered. I also agree that the ‘performers are accountable for their performance’ and that they are all ‘professionals’…same goes for a lot of businesses/sports/radio programs/etc. but everyone is subject to good leadership — it’s human nature. I like Gibby as a manager as much as anyone, but if the players are not responding, it’s time for change. Keep up the good work…it’s great listening!!
MW: Thank you!
- Sandy - Cambridge, ONThe second day in a row the Jays had a game that they were never in.
MW: And the second day in a row that they didn’t score!
- JasonMike, I’m pretty sure Freddy Garcia is a free agent, and is there any chance of signing him?
MW: He has a torn labrum and is likely done, at the very least I doubt he’ll pitch again this year.
- WillMike
I’m sure you read Bob Elliott’s piece about the dearth of major league ready outfielders in the Jays system. Rather than just bash Ricciardi, I’d like to hear your take. I understand drafting is often a crapshoot, but other teams seems to find decent players, so why can’t the Jays draft better? You’d have to admit other than Aaron Hill, JP has done a poor job with position players. I’m not a basher, I’d like to know.
MW: He concentrated on pitching a lot, because you can turn pitching into any other asset, which cost them on the hitting side, but I’d rather have the pitching. And with Wells and Rios under contract for a long time, they’re pretty set in the outfield.
- DanMike,
I have a problem with you saying the Manager doesn’t matter. While it is true that I could have lead the Yankee’s to plus .500 record over the last 8 years, I don’t think it is fair to say they have no impact.
I also have a problem with you saying that the lack of hitting is solely on the players and that the manager shouldn’t be held responcible. At the end the of the day someone has to be held accountable. First that is going to be the manager if the GM feels he has the hitters and they are not delivering. And then it is the GM for putting together a team that doesn’t deliver. Now I don’t think Gibby should be fired and I think firing JP would be tragic. But JP is limited in the moves he can make. If things don’t improve changing managers will become the easiest move to make. Its sad but it is true.
MW: There’s no question that firing the manager would be the easiest move to make, and if things don’t improve it’s the move that probably will be made. But that doesn’t make it the right thing to do.
- JWMike
If you were in charge what would you do to try and improve the lack of Hitting.
I mean you would have TOTAL CONTROL except when the PLAYER WAS AT THE PLATE.
Is there an ANSWER????
Is this going to turn around?
HELP…
MW: I would tell the hitters to take their heads out of their lower orifices when they were at the plate, take the first good pitch they see and hit it hard. Of course, I’m sure that’s what Gary Denbo is telling them, too.
- Bobby BHi Mike, interesting situation with the Jays right now. I’m not sure firing the manager solves anything. I’m also not sure what they do to get more help at the plate. Sure, there many ‘fantasy league-style’ trades people dream up, but really, I’m pretty convinced we’re not about to trade a Burnett for a Chase Utley or whatever other trades people dream up. What I do see playing out if the season continues the way it is right now, is Gibbons and JP being let go at seasons’ end. However, if they keep losing, attendance will drop. It’s tough right now to be ‘glass half full’ but still, they are not too far out of a wild card. Haha, hope springs eternal in sports, doesn’t it, Mike?
MW: It’s very tough to be glass half-full right now, but the thing with this team is that a downturn doesn’t mean they’ll never get out of it. Remember, they were 2-8, followed by 6-1, followed by 0-3.
- BrentHow much more time would you give the offense to turn it around before the Jays should make a move for an impact bat? I would say until the first week of June.
MW: I’d make a move for an impact bat right now, but it takes two to tango, and I don’t think they’ll be able to find a dance partner right yet.
- aviWhen it comes to teams in prolonged hitting slumps, I’m sure Yogi would have said it’s over when it’s over.
jerry
- jerry lawtonThis it OT, but do you know of any “stat” guys for hockey? I’d love to see a Moneyball type book that rips apart the merits of grit and good ‘ol Canadian boys.
MW: I don’t. I’m sure they’re out there, but I don’t know of them.
- AndyMike, you mentioned that casey blake’s rbi total were not valid because he hit only 2 hr and it’s a function of how many men are on base is really not valid. the fact is you still have to hit with risp. as you are well aware, this is something the jays have shown is very difficult. so if casey blake can do it, then you have to give him credit. his avg with risp is .444 with .750 slug. overbay is .111 with risp. if overbay had taken his place he wouldn’t even have half the rbi total. mike, you really need to stop looking at averages and start looking at results. that’s all that matters.
MW: Of course results are all that matters in the long run, but the numbers tell you how you get to those results. Blake’s RBI total is wonderful, but RBIs are a factor of who is on base ahead of you. I mentioned the two homers because those are the only two of his RBIs for which Blake alone is responsible. He’s definitely taking advantage of his opportunities, though, unlike the Blue Jays.
- HaroldThe Jays hitting has to improve because as Rasheed Wallace says, the sun shines on the dog’s ass once in a while.
MW: Sheed came up with that? I wasn’t aware.
- JohnMike, I don’t know how you manage to keep your cool when these idiots keep calling in complaining about Gibbons’ motivational skills. I would just lose it.
The worst part is that they have no evidence to support their claims. I mean, it’s ridiculous enough to even think that stuff matters, but at least show me evidence. They’ve never been in the dugout or clubhouse. How do they know this stuff?? I’d like one of those press passes they have.
Look at the managerial records of Leyland, Piniella, LaRussa, or any “big name” manager out there and you’ll see their records correspond 100% to their team’s talent level. By the way, “big name” managers are “big name” managers not because they’re so great at their job but because they were either lucky enough to manage great teams and players (Torre, Francona, LaRussa, Cox, Leyland, etc.) or they are total nut cases (Piniella, Cox, Weaver, etc). Or sometimes both.
For example: Jim Leyland
http://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/leylaji99.shtml
His 97 Marlins were absolutely loaded with talent. They won 92 games and eventually the World Series. The next year? 54-108
54-108!!!
Now do you think he suddenly lost his “motivational” ability or did it have to do with the Marlins losing Sheffield, Alou, Bonilla, Conine, Johnson, Brown Fernandez, Leiter, Nen, etc?
Dear stupid people, please do us all a favour and just stop following baseball. You guys ruin it for us rational people.
- ShawnHey Mike, great job with the blog. Was wondering what Eric Eiland is up to, I cant find his name anywhere.
MW: He’s going to play in the Gulf Coast League, and their season hasn’t started yet.
- JoeyI enjoy your show Mike. I just wanted to change subjects for a moment. Who pays for all the players in the Jay farm system. Do the Jays only pay the ones on the 40 man roster and the minor league teams pay the rest?
MW: Nope, the Blue Jays pay everybody.
- StanMike,
Thanks for the reply, it’s great when you can have a back-and forth. I’d agree with you when you say there might be more distractions at home… a kinda related question: How many of the Jays actually have family in the GTA?
My statement on focus is more related to everything surrounding a road trip… late night flights, staying in hotel rooms, having a game one day in one city, the next afternoon in another, different ball parks, etc. Teams are expected to have good home records, as its easier to play in familiar surroundings. They get to sleep in their own beds, and have to deal with weary teams coming into town on occasion on long road hauls.
I think my point, in a very roundabout way, is this: In any business if a team is under performing (sales team, service team… baseball team) its ultimately the Manager of that team who bears responsibility for that performance. If you aren’t hitting your quarterly goals on a consistent basis, you’re gonna get canned. The Jays’ goals for the last 3 years have been to play meaningful games in September, they haven’t done it.. they’re under performing again… something’s gotta give. I’m not saying it’s fair, but you can’t get rid of all the players.
MW: But maybe you should. I think athletics is much different than business. I’d say managers have more control over their “teams” in business than they do in sports.
- KevinMike:
In regards to your “truths” that you spoke of … most of them were true but the one that I take exception with is where you say that the hitting with RISP HAS to change. That is not a truth, it’s just your opinion. The Jays could very well go the whole season at this current rate and be the worst team ever in the history of baseball. Someone has to have the record as the worst.
Secondly, you’re right that the season isn’t over with 124 games left to play but you’re also of the mindset that they’re in it until there are fewer games left to play than they are behind the wild card/ division leader even if that number is double digits in late August with 6 teams to jump over. I think most of the people are saying the realistic chances are slim given the team’s poor start and the prospect of a sudden hitting turnaround not looking good.
Also you like to tell us that that means the Yankees are out of it as well given that they’re only a couple of games ahead of the Jays at this point but I see the difference being that the Yankees have done it before … just look at their record post all star break last year for an example. They also have a team full of guys that are used to playoff runs while the Jays have a couple that have been there but with different teams. The bulk of this collection never has. I assume that means nothing to you though because “being there before and playoff experience” isn’t a hard measureable stat.
Lastly, given your position about not being out of it with only 23% of the season gone I was very surprised to see the statement “they got their heads handed to them in a 12-0 loss, it was over after the first inning” How can the game be over when you’re just down 6 runs after playing only 11% of the game? Where’s the faith?
MW: There’s faith and then there’s realism. And to be two games behind the real playoff teams with 124 games to play means realism states the season isn’t even close to over. When did you hear or read from me that I don’t believe the Jays are out of it even if they’re double digits back in August with six teams to climb over? At that point, they’re out of it, but it’s still not impossible for them to work their way back into it, that’s just the truth - stranger things have happened.
- Peter B.“Being there before and playoff experience” isn’t a hard measurable stat because it doesn’t have that much to do with anything. The Angels won the World Series in 2002, and brought back basically the same crew the next year, since they’d “been there before and had playoff experience”. They won 77 games in 2003. There are numerous other examples.
Mike, I don’t have strong feelings one way or another about the future of John Gibbons. I do think though that it’s rather ostrich-like to pretend that a manager has no responsibility for a team that uniformly under-performs. Obviously the players have to go on the field and do their job, but leadership is about more than filling out the line-up. In any other walk of life anyone in a leadership role is accountable for the performance of those whom they manage. The results aren’t there. It’s as simple as that. To say that this team’s under performance is not Gibbons fault is to define responsibility so narrowly as to be inapplicable to any other business I know. That doesn’t make sense to me.
MW: See above.
- Mikiere: Pinella and Leyland - despite the arguments you made, I’d still have more faith in them as managers than I do in John Gibbons. He seems like a great guy but his managing style is one-dimensional and very uninspiring. The only strategy he employs is moving the lineup around and it’s not making a difference. And he seems to have no authority - Mickey Brantley was fired against his wishes, and Frank Thomas walked all over him. He couldn’t control Lilly or Hillenbrand. Just because we have a manager that doesn’t make a difference doesn’t mean all managers don’t. Go get Bob Brenly and let’s get this team turned around.
MW: Bob Brenly? You’re kidding, right? Go back and watch the 2001 World Series over again.
- Richard CaddooMike:
Sorry, 1 other thing I wanted to mention. I’ve heard you tell many callers when they mention RBI’s for a player that you consider it a worthless stat or that you don’t care about it because it’s a function of the people before you getting on base. That being true, is it also not a matter of the player doing something (like getting a hit) to drive those people in. So maybe a combination of RBI’s and hitting with RISP makes sense together. As we’re noticing now with the Jays, getting those RBI’s is a real issue. Does that not make sense? I know a lot of people were talking about David Ortiz having a slow start to the season with his batting average but he still had over 20 RBI’s while batting under 200 I believe. That would lead me to believe that he was doing the job when he had the opportunity which the Jays aren’t currently doing.
MW: No question that the Jays aren’t currently doing it. But a single with no one on base is a single, a single with runners on second and third is two RBIs. There’s something to be said for ability to hit with runners on base, but it’s doubtful that you’d actually be able to find a player with a statistically significant increase in his career average with RISP over his overall average.
- Peter B.Well, I hate rain delays because it means a day without a baseball game to watch but on the bright side it allowed me to get to listen to a little of Jays talk on the way to work. I have to say Mike, I really enjoy listening to you take calls. The people who rag on you for being “mean” or “belittling” to the callers are out to lunch. For the most part I find the callers keep saying the same things over and over and make ridiculous comments that for the most part warrant the types of responses you give. I’m a little disappointed yet not surprised at the overall lack of baseball knowledge in Canada. You have a lot of patience to answer call after call and hear the same “Reed is better than Stewart” and “They should never have let Frank Thomas go” and “they should trade overrated Blue Jay (fill in the blank) for superstar slugger(fill in the blank).” Bottom line, great show, great blog, keep it up.
Back to the actual team…Just a thought that I had today: could the poor hitting be due to a lack of preparation? The good hitters seem to study tape of themselves to try and correct things and pay attention to scouting reports of opposing pictures so they go to the plate prepared and not surprised by what they see. From what you see/know, are the Jays serious in this respect? Are they spending time with the videotapes studying and preparing for their next plate appearances? Maybe it’s a stupid question, I’m just running out of ideas of what is wrong with the hitting and the longer it continues the harder it is for me to accept that it’s just a an unlucky funk that can’t last forever. Thanks for the time you put in answering all these comments.
MW: First paragraph - I like you. Second paragraph - Lyle Overbay is probably the most serious “tape guy” on the Jays. He’s in that room studying all the time, and he’s their worst performer with RISP.
- B-rad from Calgary“MW: I’m not sure they could do it because of the multi-purpososity of the building.”
Haha I love when you make up words, but I would have gone with just “purposity”.
MW: I think “purpososity” has a better ring to it.
- AriHi Mike,
What was the thinking behind the Fernandez/McGriff for Alomar/Carter deal? Why did it work so well? All the players involved were quite good and playing well at the time. What part of the season was this deal made–or was it an offseason deal?
The Jays’ lack of offense has made me think it might be time to make a radical move. What do you think?
MW: It was an off-season move, when more radical trades are more easily made. I don’t know what the thinking behind it was, other than (for the Jays) to shake up a team that had been underachieving for about the five years previous. It was a great deal, though, cemented Pat Gillick’s legacy in Toronto.
- michael sMike, it gives me great pleasure to present to you the top ten ways to rile up Wilner during the Jays Talkage:
#10. Fire President/GM/Manager/Batting Coach/Bench Coach/1st Base Coach/3rd Base Coach/Strength Coach/Clubhouse Attendant/Worlds Fastest Groundscrew/Ace/Peanut Vendor in order to “shake things up”.
#9. Mention chemistry, grit, heart, soul rather than using objective measures to evaluate players.
#8. Ask why Gibbons didn’t insist on having Rios drop down a sac bunt in the 3rd inning instead of hitting into a double play.
#7. Ask why J.P. drafted Romero over Tulowitzki, while casting a misty eye back on the good old days like the 1980 draft (I think) when Pat Gillick did not draft one player that reached the big leagues (it’s a crapshoot people!).
#6. Ask why there have have been 5 different 3rd basemen in J.P.’s tenure…If at first you don’t succeed…
#5. Suggest trading Gustavo Chacin and Russ Adams for Adam Dunn and a prospect.
#4. Tell Mike that injuries are no excuse and that the team should win the same number of games regardless of whether it has 0 man games lost or 1000.
#3. Complain about the “lack of direction” demonstrated by the ‘07 Ohka/Thompson/Zambrano signings and the ‘08 Wilkerson/Mench signings.
#2. Complain about the number of bad contracts J.P. has gotten into and then had to dump on other teams. But before you do ask yourself if you would have preferred that he kept them around when he realized they weren’t working out (see Gord Ash: Loaiza, Esteban; Hamilton, Joey; Bush, Homer).
…And the number 1 way to vex Wilner…
For the 136th time in far less than 136 days bring up the release of Reed Johnson in favour of Shannon Stewart.
Thanks for all the hard work you do in talking us all down from the ledge on a seemingly daily basis. Seems like your Psych degree is serving you very well in your current capacity as Voice of Sanity in these “dark times”. But it wouldn’t be baseball if we didn’t love it so much. Take care.
MW: And if you didn’t love it so much, I’d be out of a job. I love this thing! You didn’t mention releasing Frank Thomas, though.
- TomEdit from previous post. Gillick’s 1980 draft produced one major leaguer: a pitcher by the name of Roger Samuels, but he did not sign with the team. The moral of the story is that even the great ones can have a bad draft year because of the crapshootage involved (Source: The Baseball Cube).
- Tom[sarcasm on]
In regard to yesterday’s caller who mentioned firing Gibbons and intelligently pointed out his shirt hanging out of his pants… I agree wholeheartedly! There’s no way the Jays can win with a manager like that, just impossible.
If the Jays ever hope to contend they also have to address the lack of bend in Jesse Litsch’s hat as well as the looseness of Shaun Marcum’s pants when he dons the baby blues. These are all things JP needs to fix immediately if the Jays will ever make the playoffs!
[/sarcasm off]
Really though, where do people come up with this stuff? That, coupled with the caller who had a complaint for everyone on the Jays without knowing ANYONE’s name had me shaking my head yesterday .. Good radio though!
- ColeMike - Just curious as we had a rain out last night and thought this may be a good time to comment on some things other than just “the games”.
You must be one of the few sports people who actually comment on responses left to your blog postings! Do you ever wish you hadn’t started doing that - I mean it’s great that you do - it really adds to them. However it must take up a lot of time going through the posts and responding let alone just putting out the blog.
Along with covering games, radio shows, “Jays Talk” etc etc - your obviously a busy man and enjoying what you do.
Did you ever play baseball at any levels other than perhaps city/house league etc when you were a kid growing up?
Ever thought of looking into a career as to working for a team directly whereas you work your way up into a managment or whatever position - maybe even player personel type job. You do seem to really enjoy the game and have some pretty good insight as to moves etc.
Seeing as how the posts prior to this one were getting into grammer etc - I think it’s pretty funny how you play on words and I for one “get it” when you do - some like to jump all over you for it - maybe because they can’t get you when it comes to stating facts!
By the way “multi-purposity” couldn’t find the word “purposity” anywhere - but sounds like a great word and fits.
Thanks.
MW: Sometimes I do regret having started to comment on the comments, it takes a TON of time, but everybody seems to like it, so I keep doing it. I never played at any level above city/house league, and of course I’ve thought about getting into front office work, everybody has, but I doubt I’ll ever be able to. It’s rare to move from broadcasting into baseball ops, as opposed to the other way around.
- BobI think it was “multi-purpososity”, though.
I read Richard Griffin’s article today about Shannon Stewart. Seems that you are now the only one on the planet touting what a good player he is. It appears that Inglett and Wilkerson are now ahead of him on the depth chart.
Meanwhile, Mr. Johnson, the guy who apparently could not carry Mr. Stewart’s jockstrap, is playing great D on an everyday basis for a 1st place team, and hitting above .250 with meaningful hits. (see the homerun this weekend?).
When the Jays release Stewart, will you FINALLY publicly state that the Jays made a mistake letting Johnson go?
MW: Nope, because it was the right move at the time. No one operates with the benefit of hindsight. If they did, they’d never lose.
- Paul BMerlin hit it right on the head. I couldn’t agree with you more, Merlin.
MW: You and I disagree, then. It’s hard to evaluate a player on “guts” and “feel”. I prefer to look at what he’s actually accomplished.
- AKMike,
Between Marcum, and McGowan, who has the bigger upside.
Marcum is a finesse pitcher who is all about location and changing speeds, and McGowan, is Burnett like with his power, and potential to give up the HR and BB.
Seeing the predicament we are in right now, and I’m sure JP is on the phone on a regular basis looking for a bat, who would be more expendable?
MW: Neither.
- Andrew NI agree with MW. I don’t think Gibbons is the problem.
But at the end of the day, if the Jays don’t show progress this year–despite injuries–it will be time to let JP go. 7 years on the job and nothing to show, surely even JP will aknowledge he’s at the end.
I think JP did some good things, but really couldn’t get it done when Rogers opend up the bank. Some people can put together a team better under a tight budget.. and inefficiently allocate capital when they are given more freedom and more money (see Glenn Sather with the NY Rangers). I think JP falls into the latter category.
MW: It depends on your definition of “inefficiently allocate capital”. If that means spending money on people who then are stupid enough to break fingers, hands and wrists all the time, then you’re right. I still go back to looking at the team that was put together at the beginning of the season and how many people expected them to be good. That’s what the GM does, and then we see how he reacts to what goes on over the course of the season. I think people are far too quick to dismiss injuries as a major factor in performance.
- AKMike, you didn’t answer the first 2 posts here.
1 — I’ve wanted to ask the same question. What has Gibbons ADDED to this team? Even if he is not responsible for hitting or even losses, what are his plusses? I don’t see any. Can he help this team win? Or do you say that’s not part of the job description? My view: Gibbons must take some accountability for the team’s record.
2 — You are always throwing stats out as the ultimate answer. OK look: The stats say this team’s hitting is AWFUL. You say the stats will be very different soon. But the math says that if the numbers for runs and hits don’t improve significantly fast, it will be very hard to wind up with good numbers for the year as a whole.
MW: I don’t think they will wind up with GOOD numbers for the year as a whole, but even if their offensive numbers are just average, they’ll be fine with the pitching they have. The problem has been just how far BELOW average, below even crappy, their offensive numbers have been. What has Gibbons added to the team? I don’t know. But I don’t think it’s possible to quantify what a manager adds to a team.
- JohnHey Mike,
don’t forget the Green for Mondesi trade. That one didn’t make sense on any level. Ricciardi critics blast him for the Romero-Tulo debacle (still too early to tell on Romero anyway), and sing Ash’s praises, but conveniently forget about Ash’s 1st round busts like Gross, Lopez, and Negron.
In head to head competition, I’d take Overbay over Bush-Gross-Jackson right now. Ricciardi 1, Ash 0.
MW: There were a lot more moves to consider, though. I didn’t mind the Green for Mondesi trade. Green had Ash over a barrel, not only demanding a trade, but demanding a trade to one city (which he had no right to do, but the Jays felt they had to accommodate him, for some reason). Given the circumstances, Ash did much better than I thought he would.
- TimMike, seems that Jays fans are taking their frustrations out on you.
This team needs to start looking at short term goals. First one is to get to .500. They can’t be thinking anything about division or wildcard until they get to the point of having as many wins as losses.
Maybe the injury to Wells will have a similar affect on Rios as when Sidney Crosby was out this year with the Pens. They caught fire and Malkin carried them. Crosby was the best pickup at the deadline, because the team just kept going, they didn’t relax because their star was back.
Injuries can’t be excuses. Time for these guys to just play the game and start executing. That’s all it has come down to this season.
The lack of offence is going to start weighing on the pitching staff, hopefully we didn’t see the first signs of that on Saturday.
MW: Injuries can’t be excuses for the healthy people not executing to their capabilities, I’m with you on that.
- Aaron KerI assume you know Jays management better than most of us. Is there any chance that the Jays would ever do a blowup and rebuild? I mean get rid of Roy, A.J, Rolen etc. and go for it in a couple of years?
MW: Why would you get rid of Halladay?
- ScottI find that the praise of Blue jay players to be excessive.Baseball has been watered down.Vernon is a good player.He would not be in the first six center fielders in baseball.It is always funny seeing him dive for balls.Most are not caught if he has to hit the ground.His great catches according to the announcers are routine to the great out fielders.Last year they were saying about Thomas that he is a slow starter and will come around.This year it’s a different story..for whatever reason.Vernon’s rbi total is the problem.How many times has he hit in the clutch?The young pitchers are the bright spot of the team.
What will you do when you are removed from blue jay team and get a job with thetigers or tampa bay?Makethe same arguments for the new team.
What will happen when Doc asks to be traded?
It will happen!!
MW: Can you imagine what it’s like for the guy who does my job on the Tigers broadcasts? Poor guy. If I were doing the Rays’ games, I’d be saying the same things I was saying here three years ago when the Jays started 8-4 and all the fans were planning the parade, which was “this team is NOT going to the playoffs”. People got mad at me then, too.
- Earl JMike,
I’m hearing alot of people saying that JP should be trading Roy Halladay for a bigger impact player. Is this really something JP would consider doing if things continue to slump? What kind of market value does “Doc” have? Personally, i would never like to see him go….We need him more than ever.
Huge fan!
WO.
MW: I doubt he would ever consider trading Halladay unless the package was overwhelming.
- Warren OwenWilner,
Not sure why everyone rants on you because you’re an apologist for J.P. I mean you work for Fan 590 owned by Rogers, the same company that owns the Jays. Unless you’re name is McCowan, you’re not going to say anything negative about your employer. The same for Gibbons, I mean really, what is a manager’s role? Guys like LaRussa, Pinnella, Gaston and Leyland (he may be struggling right now, but he took his team into the playoffs this century) are all overrated.
I know you like truths and facts, so here are a couple, the only stat that matters is wins and losses, and during the J.P. reign there have been too few wins, and way too many losess. In 7 years he has not been able to get it done, the Jays have played ZERO important games in the month of September, which means ZERO playoffs. I think it’s sheer insanity that he has not been shown the door. Oh and btw, please do not put J.P. in the same sentence as Pat Gillick, it make a mockery of everything Gillick accomplished. The only comparison between the two, is how polar opposite they are, one being successful the other not even close.
My question is, what do you think will be J.P’s excuses for this year’s team? (a) injuries, (b) schedule (too may games agains the other teams best pitcher), (c) not enough time to allow for the offense to get going or (d) there were no ‘All time Leader in Home Runs’ type players that he could sign?
MW: I take it that your questions are rhetorical, since you opened by saying I have no integrity.
- BobbyHi Mike, I’m a regular listener in Waterloo (when the radio network is up in my local station). I wish I could tune the Fan 590 in my city!!!
While I tend to disagree with your positions with respect to the manager’s role in a team’s success/failure, and with your interpretation on numbers/stats, I really like the way you can add a spin to things and make us realize that not EVERYTHING IS WRONG with the Jays.
I wanted to ask a couple of questions about the radio/TV business since you work on it.
Do you know why neither sport channel in Ontario (TSN, RSN, OR THESCORE) will broacast the Friday game vs. the Phillies? According to my schedule, we will miss the entire trip to LAA (May 20-22? Do you know why we were able to watch mets vs reds on Saturday afternoon, but not the Blue Jays on those other days?
Thanks!
MW: I don’t know why Friday’s game isn’t on the broadcast schedule, but The Score doesn’t broadcast any Jays games. Mets/Reds was on FOX, no? The Angels games are on the west coast, but I’d still put them on. I’m sure they’ll be on Rogers 401 or something, but you can always listen on the radio or on mlb.com.
- AxelHey Mike,
Will Stewart be released?
The signing of Mench & Wilkerson shows that Lind isn’t ready (.05whatever avg also showed). What does that say about his prospect status? Do the Jays still see Lind as a potential above avg MLB outfielder? We’ve seen Lind quite a bit over the past two seasons - is it just me or does he not look like he’s going to turn into something special? I know he’s got good AAA stats (MVP), etc., but I just don’t envision him being a power hitting MLB outfielder.
Agree, disagree?
MW: I think the jury’s still out on Lind. Obviously the 19 at-bats he had aren’t enough to have made a real evaluation about him, I think they took a flyer on Wilkerson as a “nothing ventured, nothing gained” sort of thing. If Wilkerson can’t cut it, then Lind comes back in couple of weeks and they didn’t really lose all that much. Mench and Lind have nothing to do with one another. If Wilkerson does get back to his 2004 form (doubtful) and Stewart continues to struggle then yes, Shannon might be released when Wells comes back.
- MichaelMike,
I love your passion and commitment………….But
the Red Sox -Yankees in the same division excuse doesn,t wash…….with the money JP
has had to assemble a team,
a mere split with those 2 teams, or even a game under
500 against them should be good enough. That is if they played quality winning ball against the rest of the field.
Of course this is where the true problem lies.they cannot
win consistently against the lesser teams (problem with motivation)and Gibbons cannot “manage” to manufacture runs in this post
drug powered era…
ps Also don,t forget the 2 “big boys” have to play each other as well.
It’s
Time for a change.
Greg
MW: I don’t see the lack of winning against lesser teams being a problem with motivation (outside self-motivation). You do realize the money JP has to assemble a team is less than half that of the Yankees and not even 75% of the Red Sox, right?
- GregI know it must take a lot of time to respond to these comments/questions, but really, what else do you have to do during the day?
MW: A fine point. What else do other people have to do with their days when they’re not working?
- JohnMerlin hit it right on the head. I couldn’t agree with you more, Merlin.
MW: You and I disagree, then. It’s hard to evaluate a player on “guts” and “feel”. I prefer to look at what he’s actually accomplished.
————————
Merlin’s point completely makes sense regarding Stwart’s numbers. The past are not always an indication of the future. In any real world scenario, there is something known as the “nonstationarity” of data. The factors affecting certain outcomes change. In Shannon’s situation, he has just come of a very difficult off-season (see the Torstar article today), he is uncertain about his role on this team, he has lost two of his best friends on the team (Thomas, Reed) and he’s getting on in age. These factors all put together could easily spell a terrible year and worse yet, the end to his career. The fact that you can’t aknowledge this as a remote possibility baffles me.
Merlon also hit it on the head with your treatment of callers. I think you are a very knowledgable guy…. hence the reason I tune in. But you come off as arrogant by writing off callers’ opinions. Example: I for the life of me can’t understand why you insist people who say this team lacks heart are WRONG (even though I don’t even agree with the notion). If you can’t quantify “heart” and “passion”, how can you say conclusively thats its untrue?
It’s a bloody opinion, respect it.
MW: I don’t have to respect all opinions, nor do you. When someone forms their opinion based on a conclusion they’ve come to using “facts” that aren’t true, or huge leaps from one point to another, that’s not an opinion worth respecting. And what exactly is wrong with asking people to back up their opinions?
- AKAs to the Shannon Stewart thing, of course all those things added up could lead to him having a bad year, but the same is true of anyone. So you don’t sign anyone because a bunch of stuff might happen that would lead him to having a bad year? That’s ridiculous. The only of your facts that were in evidence before the season were that Stewart had had a rough off-season, contract- and agent-wise. Using the “his friend Reed was gone” excuse is ludicrous, because simply by signing, Stewart knew that there was a 95% chance that if he made the team, Johnson wouldn’t.
Mike,
I’ve gotta be honest with you, reading your blog is starting to really make me mad (and no fault of your own)
People are actually coming on here and suggesting we get rid of Halliday, Rolen, Rios??
Clearly, you people have no clue about baseball, and should go back to complaining about the leafs.
The only way we could/would trade Halliday is if it was for the whole 25 man roster of the Marlins, or even the Tigers.
I know everyone is frustrated, but for everyones sanity, think before you write something. Heres an idea, write something intelligent for a change, instead of dreaming up these crazy (and stupid) trades.
I’ve got an idea, Halliday for Zito?
This is the hand we have been dealt, so you can either deal with it, or go cheer for the expos.
These guys are human like us, they have bad days, they get injured, and they have slumps.
How would you feel if someone wrote a blog about you and the crappy job you do at your work? And suggest you be fired cause you have a bad week.
Suck it up, these are your 2008 Toronto Blue Jays, and weather they finish 1st, or 5th, that is not going to change.
And think ahead…this upcoming year is going to be one of the biggest/best year for free agents. If Mr. Rogers wants to open up his pocket book, who knows what the opening day lineup could look like next year.
- Andrew NI know that baseball is full of improbable events but the season that the Jays are having makes me shake my head.
I’m not defending JP but do your listners really think that “management” could have predicted the huge differences in performance at the plate as soon as there are runners in scoring position. Take a look at Scott Rolen, hitting .320 and with RISP .162. Or look at Matt Stairs. Or Lyle Overbay. Or Alex Rios. Or whoever.
There is no way JP, or for that matter Pat Gillick, could have predicted this. From all the historical data available to management the Blue Jays are a collection of average to above average hitters yet they are hiiting (or not hitting) like the worst team in the modern era.
So what’s the cause? I think that we should look for something that makes sense. You know, something like a curse. Boston had the “Curse of the Bambino” and the Cubbies still have their curse (of course any team can have a bad century).
So the Jays have the curse of ..Shea Hillenbrandt ?, Ted Lilly?, I know Jason Smith, wait how about Howie Clark?
So far it seems like management is doing nothing to get rid of this curse. No exocism, no burinng of bats or uniforms and certainly no White Soxian inflatable shrines. No firing of the batboys, the hitting coach, the manager, the GM or the stadium announcer. Or even that guy who does the call-in show who keeps on using facts and stats to explain reasonable moves that have worked out ’cause everyone knows that a good hunch and a deck of tarot cards is how every other GM works.
Mike please continue being the voice of reason. Baseball might not always work out the way we hope but being stupid shouldn’t be the response.
- PRBHey Mike - I disagree with ‘Merlin.’ I say throw the book at us! I was actually pondering - which irks you more - bad spelling or bad facts.
Truth is - your blog as well as Jays Talk is probably the one thing that actually sharpens people’s knowledge in this city. I’ve learned more about baseball listening and reading than anything else.
My wife loves listening to your show too, because you just put it in a way that is easy to understand.
How fast did Kevin Mench drop when Halladay decked him in the face? Was there blood? How’s Roy’s hand? Was it a sinker punch - or more of a upper-cutter? Sorry - I know this is getting weak now.
Enjoy your afternoon.
MW: If Mench’s head had swollen from the force of the punch, there wouldn’t be a cap or helmet in creation that would fit him.
- Andrew SorlieI don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but during Sunday’s rain delay, there was obviously a pretty good rain delay version of “Jays Talk” which I had to miss because the engineer was broadcastingan English League Soccer show. How hard would it have been to turn the feed back on? It’s tough being an out of market fan who lives 400 miles south of Toronto. I’d subscribe on MLB.com but I have to work most nights. Thank God I can get CHML on my car radio or I’d really be stuck. I have heard you say in the blogs is that you are “trying” to get the “Jays Talk” programs added to the audio section. How close is this to becoming a reality (in your opinion). The person in charge of this decision is obviously a soocer fan. Can’t you use your psych degree to help him? Finally, what is the status of “Jays Talk” with today’s doubleheader. I know that makes for a long day for you and that racing show on Monday night is the stations highest rated show.
Oh by the way, Fulham won 1-0 yesterday and avoided being sent to the second division. I know this because it was all those joker’s on the soccer show talked about while I was missing the rain delay show.
Sudden thought: maybe you could fix me up with a button I could push here in Ohio that would give the engineer an electric shock if he neglects to turn the feed on after the game or during delays.
MW: Honestly, I’m not sure what the protocol is for the mlb.com thing during a rain delay. They may not have been allowed to air The Rain Delay Programme.
- Jim BranscomeJust to follow up on the broadcasting business. RSN shows “out-of-market” games. Examples: reds vs. mets on Saturday; Yankees vs. Tigers last week. My guess is that RSN has to pay either FOX or YES for the right to broadcast these games in Canada. Why can’t they pay the LAA or Phillies network to bring the games to Ontario? Is this budget? Is this market? Is this copyrights?
Is there any fan out there who knows where to catch Friday’s game at Phillie? I don’t get 401… Thanks!
MW: I don’t know, but I’m sure they wouldn’t show a visitor’s broadcast when they have their own crew (for a regular season game), because if they’re not sending Jamie Campbell and whoever’s turn it is, there’s a programmic reason, I would think.
- AxelThe release of Frank Thomas was left off my top ten list because at the time I thought it would take up two posts i.e. 1) Why did they sign Frank Thomas in the first place? and 2) Why did they pull the chute on him so quickly this season?
I realize he is a very large, imposing figure, but I didn’t want him taking up 1/5 of my list. I felt that the one counter-balanced the other and so I left him off and found 10 other mutually exclusive points of vexation.
MW: OK. Great list, regardless.
- TomTo post#34…very nice. I enjoyed reading that and you hit the nail right on the head.
Since we were rained out yesterday I want to talk about off-field things.
First- my favorite part of Jays talk yesterday was when Mike proved that one caller wrong so the caller right away changed the subject and Mike interrupted and said, “Wait, you can’t change the subject because I just proved you wrong, that’s not fair.” Classic caller vs. Wilner.
Second- to those of you that like to bash people like myself that use pronouns such as “us” and “we” and “our” when referring to the Blue Jays or any other sports team, get over it. Isn’t the point of pro sports to be entertained by professional athletes performing at levels we can only dream of? And shouldn’t we identify ourselves with the team we have followed since we were 6 years old? When you are passionate about a team and a sport what’s wrong with feeling a part of that group of athletes that you desperately root for game after game?
I know sport is only a diversion from reality and I’m not placing sport on a pedestal but part of that diversion in my opinion is relating strongly to the teams you follow. I don’t care if you disagree with me, just don’t get on your high horse and look down on me for rooting for “our” Blue Jays. That’s it.
Go Jays. Nothing will turn things around like a doubleheader sweep.
MW: I’m not a big fan of fans using “we” and “us”, but I’m slowly starting to see the other side of the issue. I understand that you feel that connection.
- B-rad from CalgaryHey Mike, love your work.
I’ve got to say that the D-Rays are actually looking pretty good right now. I don’t think they’ll make the playoffs or anything, but I also don’t believe that they’ll all of a sudden go into the tank and be easy pickings for the jays to pass. And with their continued development you have to think that the AL East will become that much tougher in the future. The thought of the Rays making the playoffs or even competing in September before the Jays makes me physically ill.
- AndyJP should make a deal for Bay - he’s hitting .192 on the year with RISP. A perfect fit!
- DougMike
To follow-up my question about the dearth of major league ready position players, I’m sorry but your answer that JP was “focusing on pitching” doesn’t add up with me. Isn’t he supposed to focus on every position? Has the Jays scouting and player development ranks been cut too far?
MW: I don’t have an issue with a new general manager bringing in his own people, so it doesn’t bother me that Ricciardi brought in his own people to do the scouting. Sure, you’re supposed to concentrate on every position, but to key in on rebuilding the pitching staff isn’t a bad thing.
- DanMW: I don’t see the lack of winning against lesser teams being a problem with motivation (outside self-motivation). You do realize the money JP has to assemble a team is less than half that of the Yankees and not even 75% of the Red Sox, right?
Then why try at all with this excuse as a fallback every year.
MW: Just because you’re up against the odds every time you try doesn’t mean you should stop trying.
- Stephen SmithMike, do you subscribe to the theory that Dustin McGowans problems on saturday occured as a direct result of losing the sidies?
MW: It’d be a good thought, except he didn’t have them when he shut out the White Sox either.
- Phil SmithMaybe the Jays should use the Mother’s Day pink bats. It might improve their pathetic hitting? If I was the gm, I would have gone with Reed-Stairs LF, Wells CF and Rios in right. Wells goes down, insert Adam Lind and Stairs is your DH. Sorry, another whining Reed Johnson Fan.
Thanks, Mike
Love your show
MW: Nothing wrong with being a Reed Johnson fan. But that ship has long since sailed.
- tom stewartHi Mike:
Why do you think the “home team” has such a statistical advantage in all major sports including baseball?
In baseball, it would be easy to attribute this advantage to differences between field layouts or various turf types. This conclusion would be a mistake, since hockey and basketball use almost identical play areas.
The “Blue Jays” have played into this trend in an exaggerated fashion for many seasons now.
Can the “home field advantage” be completely explained by “fatigue on the road” or is there more at work here?
Maybe the Blue Jays be looking at firing the true culprit, the team psychiatrist. :)
- Scott Brown (Waterloo, Ontario)
MW: I don’t think you can completely explain it by fatigue on the road. I’ve long held that the mutant theory holds in basketball - they have to try to fit themselves into normal-human-sized hotels, beds, doorways, etc. when they’re on the road as opposed to at home. Baseball teams can be tailored to their home park, but I don’t think that’s enough (except when you’re talking about the Cardinals in the 80s). Otherwise, I’m not sure why most teams play better at home than they do on the road.
- Scott BrownHey Mike,
In response to a few posts suggesting that you’re too mean to callers:
Please stay mean. If that can, in some small way, help cut down on the number of comments made about grit, scrappiness, the “look in the eye”, hustle, dirty uniforms, “wanting it more”, and “playing the game the right way” - well, I’m all for it.
If I had to hear about gut feelings, and the ol’ intangibles over and over, I’d go nuts.
I can’t believe that you are taking heat for relying on stats to back up your opinions. Yeah, who needs factual data to evaluate activity and predict performance? Players should be judged based on eye-sparkle and smiles. Sheesh.
Keep doing what you’re doing, Mike. I don’t always agree with your point of view, but at least you make a cogent case for those opinions.
Now, about Shannon Stewart and his clean uniform and lack of smiles - my gut tells me…
- Kipps ThompsonHey Mike,
Since being a Jays fan is becoming increasingly frustrating, I ask you this question simply as a baseball fan.
I was watching a game over the weekend - Mets, I think - and the broadcasters were discussing the possibility of a rule change in interleague play where the DH would be used in NL parks, and the pitcher would have to bat for games in AL parks.
I’ve always been a fan of interleague play, but my first reaction to this idea was PLEASE NO! I’ve always liked the fact that the home team has an extra advantage by playing with its own rules. But then, I got to thinking that it would be kinda cool for AL fans to see their pitchers bat. What’s your take?
MW: My take is that it would be kinda cool for AL fans to see the games played by NL rules - if we have to A) have interleague, and 2) have two leagues with two different sets of rules.
- DaveRIn regard to my last post, #57. On opening day the entire rain delay show was broadcast when the Jays played the Yankees. (For whatever that’s worth)
- Jim BranscomeWhy Joe Inglett in left? Surely Gibbons must have more confidence in Shannong and Kevin than Inglett?
MW: My guess is he wanted the extra left-handed bat against Carmona. Inglett was a centrefielder in college.
- JeremyIf the Jays have a road trip similiar to the last one will Gibbons be fired? I think so. I just want to point out the obvious difference between a good GM and a bad GM. Three or four years ago, the Jays were further ahead in the rebuilding process than the Tigers or Indians. Since then, DET and CLE have made the post season at least once and one advanced to the world series. Last year the Tigers were very competitive, but did not make the playoffs. We in Toronto have been promised to be competitive for at least three seasons and have not been competitive. The AL central is also a very tough division. You cannot say Red Sox and Yankees do not let us make the playoffs. Also, CLE has an even smaller payroll and look at how successful they have been compared to the Jays. This year, the Tigers are struggling, but I would not be surprised if they ended up with a better record than the Jays. Ricciardi has the most wins of any GM not to make the playoffs. Shapiro and Dombrowski are much better GMs and that why their teams have made the post season. Lastly, is it just me or does Toronto seem to have the worst collection of pro sport teams of any North American city. Other 3 major sport cities have at least one very good team. Toronto has two mediocre teams (Jays and Raps)and ne crappy team(Leafs).
MW: Detroit will wind up better than the Jays this year because…..you just have a feeling? Why can’t I say that the Red Sox and Yankees have kept the Jays out of the playoffs? Among other major cities that don’t have at least one very good team - Washington, Houston, Oakland, Miami, Seattle - just off the top of my head.
- aviMike,
Do you and Bobcat ever cross paths on the way to/leaving the station? I sensed a little of “tension” yesterday when you mentioned his name a few times during the rain delay show.
MW: I’m a big fan of Bob’s. We see each other every weekday that the Jays are on the road.
- SteveMike, I know you are a defender of J.P but you have to admit that 7 years without a sniff of the playoffs is undefendable.
My opinion is that to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox we need a GM that makes above average decisions. A GM that is near perfect.
J.P, to my estimation, is an average GM. For every good move he makes there is a bad move. In this division that just doesn’t cut it.
MW: There is no such thing as a perfect GM, you’ll never be satisfied with anyone if that’s what you’re looking for.
- Chris JonesHow did Garcia tear his labrum?
MW: Pitching, I’m thinking.
- WillMike:
The answer to our woes is the greatest hitting catcher ever-Mike Piazza.
What do you think?
MW: I don’t think so. I don’t think he gives the Jays much more than Kevin Mench does at this point.
- Lillyhello mike….I had left a comment a few days ago about my bottom line….that the Blue Jays, once again, do not have a team capable of competing for a playoff spot….I said that theres no way around that. Your argument was to say “yes there is….you can’t make that judgement with 78% of the season left”.
Here’s the problem with your argument. Mike, if a racecar blows a tire early in the race, that car simply cannot compete with the other cars even if a large portion of the race is left. The problem needs to be fixed….this team cannot compete for a playoff spot with its “blown tire” or panicked patchwork solutions (eg. lind in/out, stewart in/out, signing mench and wilkerson)….can you honestly tell me that you feel major changes are not needed (to the hitting lineup)? Doesn’t it just seem like the wrong mix to you (even assuming full health)?
MW: Nope, it doesn’t seem like the wrong mix to me, not with this pitching staff. I mean, it does now, since no one has been hitting for a month, but I thought they were good enough when the season started and not much has changed.
- samI almost drove off the road yesterday when I heard you actually admitting to not knowing everything!!!! …
And you added that you did however, know your facts and figures and as such are confused by the Jays’ lack of hitting over the last year and a half? … Here’s a question for both you and all your listeners - Is it possible that the only stat that matters - number of wins, has nothing to do with the tangible facts and figures that you point to? Instead, is it not more likely that because we are dealing with humans and not machines, that the Jays lack of success has more to do with the Intangibles, you know those things that are not readily apparent but are always a common denominator in the mix of successful teams? Intangibles- like those things that happen before the Jays cross the white lines. Maybe the chenistry isn’t there? Maybe the players don’t respect the coaching staff and the manager? Maybe they think that Riccardi’s CONSTANT tinkering and flip flopping is a joke? How many different lineups have we had this year? How many different leadoff hitters? And when in the last 7 years have the Jays had a real big league manager? I thought Eckstein and Rolen represented the “dirt bags” Riccardi loved? Dirt bags don’t show up in statistics anywhere but all the fans recognize them! That’s why 80% of your listeners don’t understand Shannon Stewart over Reed Johnson. In conclusion, in my opinion there are two reasons for the Jays stumbling. First, indecisive management and second, the intangibles - those things that are not measured by statistics. Finally, I’m happy to hear you admit that you don’t have all the answers. Maybe that means that you will stop making so many of your callers feel like their stupid. Remember they may not have all the answers either.
MW: I don’t think I make most of my callers feel stupid. All I ask is for reason and rationality - when I don’t get it, I tend to get kind of short and stuff. The issue I have with intangibles is that they’re not only impossible to quantify (by definition), but like you said - “they’re always a common denominator in the mix of successful teams.” The truth is, they’re always ASSUMED to be a common denominator in the mix of successful teams. Most people simply assume that good teams have heart, leadership, strength, grit, whatever, but a lot of them don’t. And a lot of crappy teams do. It just doesn’t count if you don’t win.
- MikeHow are the jays going to rotate Inglett Scutaro and Velandia?
MW: Seems like Scoot is the shortstop with Velandia backing up on occasion, and Inglett will fill in at second, third and the outfield.
- Brett VOh man. It’s only the top of the 4th and we have already tried to hand the Indians 2 free outs with out terrible base-running. Am I the only one this is killing?
The company line from last year seems to have been that injuries derailed the year, how could they have been expected to contend rolling put Clark/Phillips/McDonald in the bottom third on a regular basis. Well, it’s the middle of May, and I fail to see how Scutaro/Barajas/Inglett is any different. Sure, Wilkerson & Mench were nice, risk-free pickups, but they are not the answer, and if JP thinks they are ANY sort of short term remedy then yes, I think they can actually be BAD moves.
This team will go nowhere without adding an impact bat.
- AriI am not a fan of firing Gibbons because for the most part I recognize the grass is browner on the other side…but if JP refuses to go get Bonds or trade soon for an impact bat then it has to be Gibby’s head to go, because SOMETHING has to be done if they intend on keeping any fan interest in the team. Nobody in Toronto cares about the Jays because, frankly, there’s nothing to care about.
MW: I’m thinking from the 100 comments a day on this blog alone that people in Toronto care about the Blue Jays.
- AriNoone on this team is a GREAT player (cooperstown). I know you’ll spin this in some way but how many career .300+ hitters are on this team, not .287, not.299, .300 plus., tthen look at the Bo-sox who won the world series, and the Yawkees. COME ON, can we get one ?
MW: Nope. Not allowed.
- nicky zHey Mike just thought I would let everyone know how Frank Thomas is doing since joining the Oakland A’s. In 17gms and 56abs Frank is hitting .268 with an obp of .391 which gives him for the season a climbing ba of .216 and overall obp of .348 along with 3hr and 21rbi. Looks like your right Mike. Frank’s slowly starting to heat up and will no doubt finish with numbers similar to last season.
Take care.
MW: I figured.
- TroyAnd I agree with the guy just before about “our” Jays, I have a Rogers cell phone, buy merch. and pay ticket and concessions at the rogers center. In some miniscule way, I am part of Jay/rogers nation lol.
- nicky z“MW: I’m thinking from the 100 comments a day on this blog alone that people in Toronto care about the Blue Jays.”
It’s the same idiots like me, though, who love baseball and the Jays so much we just can’t pull ourselves away. They don’t deserve our attention for as long as they don’t do everything they can to win. Obviously SOME people care, but as a whole Toronto does not care about the Blue Jays, and I can’t blame them. If I wasn’t a die-hard there is no way I would have even the slightest interest in watching this team play.
MW: The Jays still draw more fans per season, on an absolute basis, than any other pro sports team in Toronto, and by plenty.
- AriWell, Mike, I meant was he playing for a team or just working out as a free agent. Also, I’m guessing Ken Griffey Jr. or Shane Victorino, especially Victorino, are too old or too pricey to go after? Can you get back to me about what you think of both of these guys, thx
MW: I don’t mind going after Griffey, Jr., but I’d prefer Adam Dunn, and besides I don’t think he’ll waive his no-trade to come here. Victorino still under control for a while by the Phillies and is playing everyday for them. They might be interested in moving him, but only because he’s struggling so badly right now (which would make him fit right in with the Jays).
- WillIt’s funny how the Jays let go of Thomas because they couldnt wait for him to heat up. The way the Jays are going I think that wouldnt have matter anyways.
- ImranAnd looks like the Jays lose another one because the Indians just scored three runs that should be enough i am guessing.
- ImranIf the Jays are out of playoffs this year and during the off-season, say someone offers Haren/Santana like package for HALLADAY (2-3 great pitching prospects + 1-2 great batting prospects), how LONG do you think the management would take to give an answer? And would they consider it?
I’m not saying GET RID OF DOC (I have his shirt, so obviously not), but I just had a crazy wild thought during the time the Jays are not driving anyone to the home plate.
Thanks Mike
MW: I might do it for a Haren-like package, but not a Johan-like package.
- BKOk seriously, I am done with the Jays. They are boring and the manager(elmer fudd) make sno sense. I am tired of him resting guys for the sake of it. So Stairs goes 3 for 4 and does not play the 2nd game against a righty so Marco Scutaro can dh. They let Thomas go so Stairs can play and he doesn’t play everyday. Why not let him play 1st instead of Overbay. I know the manager can’t make the brutal Jays hit but he is not trying to help them. I guarantee Thomas would be better than Wilkerson-Mench-Scutaro. I really used to like JP but I think I have sen enough. Time to enjoy the weather. Thanks Scott.
MW: Cliff Lee is a lefty. See you the next time the Jays win three in a row!
- ScottI think the argument for trading Halladay (not that I’m for it) is look at the package the A’s got for Dan Haren, a good pitcher under control for several years. (And Halladay is a GREAT pitcher under control for several years.)
Granted, the A’s are “rebuilding”, but some people would say the Jays would be wise to do something similar. (I thought the Rios for Lincecum rumblings were indications that management was at least considering blowing up this roster and trying again in 2-3 years–no way they thought they could compete in 2008 without Rios’ bat.)
MW: If they’d traded Rios for Lincecum, they probably would have signed Brad Wilkerson back then. The Halladay thing was addressed above.
- MichaelMarco Scutaro DHing and batting 6th in the AL East for a team that considers itself a contender stinks of ludicrousosity.
- AriHey thanks for responding yesterday, I see how this works. I do think the tigers, yankees and Indians can go 78-46, they have done so in past seasons, will go out and get good people, and have amazed wiining strikes of over 4 games. Oh and they can overcome injuries. The Jays can. Thanks for giving us a place to vent. However I am still done I used to drive down once a month from North Bay to watch games but not worth my money and Gibbons has to go. If he was released I guarantee he gets no Manager’s job in the majors in the next 20 years. Good staff guy but no boss. Scott
MW: I thought you were done before, why are you back here?
- ScottYeah, he’s hitting .232 with 0 homers and 3 RBI’s. Juan Pierre’s not available, is he?
MW: You don’t want Juan Pierre. You might think you do, but you don’t.
- WillWow an unassisted triple play. If the Jays didn’t have bad luck they would have no luck at all. This is like one of those recurring nightmares when I was a child. Please someone wake me up. I hate to say it but this non hitting is starting to sap my enjoyment of the mostly tremendous pitching performances we have grown accustomed to. Let me explain. I’ve now been preconditioned to expect that the Jays will score either very few runs or none at all. So instead of relaxing and watching our pitchers go out there and do their thing I find myself tense and probably likely to develop an alcer. If by chance they concede a run early or heaven forbid 3 runs like todays very good outing by A.J. I almost immediately feel like the game is out of reach. This is not the way to enjoy baseball. I like you Mike continue to believe the hitting will come around based on arguements presented by yourself. It has to. But man is this painful.
Take care.
MW: Yes, it is. But now it might be over.
- TroyHi Mike, Before the season began, I figured we would have great pitching, I was concerned about improving our hitting. I just didn’t think it would be this bad. Who are you most surprised about?I know we are at the quarter poll, but Rios, Hill and Overbay are the biggest disappointments for me so far. The most frustrating thing about this year is how catchable New York and Boston are
MW: I think it’s Hill, then Rios as the most disappointing. Throw Shannon Stewart in there, too.
- SteveBefore the big triple play tonight, the TV guys were saying that the Jays were leading the MLB, bar far, in grounding into double plays.
I am tired of the lack of bunting on this team. When there are none out and the batter is at first, it should be automatic. I don’t care if it is on the road. This team has the pitching, so a lot of times, only one run is needed. It does not have the home run power to wait for the three-run homer or big inning.
We had this debate about Aaron Hill and I said that I thought he would have a very similar career to Jay Bell (that was a compliment). I now think that Hill may be not as good.
MW: It’s patently ridiculous to assert that every time a lead-off man gets on, he should be bunted over.
- Jim B“MW: The Jays still draw more fans per season, on an absolute basis, than any other pro sports team in Toronto, and by plenty.”
On an absolute basis? That’s a ridonkulous response. I don’t care what their TOTAL # is because they play twice as many games in a stadium 3x the size. You can’t compare the level of fan interest in the Leafs, Raptors, and FC to the Jays.
Your response is akin to Will above me wanting Pierre because he collects 200 hits a season.
MW: They average more per game than the Leafs and Raptors do, too.
- AriHey Mike,
My buddy wants me to ask this (I want to know also).
You say we shouldn’t fire the manager. But, a change is needed. Case in point:
1989 - Jays were built to win, but started very poorly and decided to fire Jimy Williams on May 15 (we were 13 & 24) and Cito took over and led us to the division title! Why are you so adamant that we should not fire Gibbons?
MW: 12-24, and because I don’t think John Gibbons has performed poorly enough to warrant losing his job.
- MichaelOf course, after I post this Hill bunts and they don’t score (but should have). This team is snakebitten.
MW: They bunted and it didn’t work. Case closed.
- Jim BI AM TOO. WE CAN STILL DO IT.
MW: I don’t know what you are too, but OK.
- andrew - KWholy guacamole’!!!! 3 runs!
Mike: Are the Jays willing to spend th $10,000,000 we will save on Frank’s 09 contract? I know I asked before, but can’t find your answer.
MW: Sure, why not?
- andrew - KWOh man Mr Wilner,
This is an exact duplicate of last year. The pitching is good but the offense can’t seem to hit in timely situations, or at all sometimes. And the pitching is AWESOME…TO THE MAX!!!!!!! But i don’t think that these people that JP brought in and continue to bring in will help a lot in the offensive category. I think letting go of Mr Thomas was a big mistake because the reason JP let him go is he wasn’t hitting well in the “meat” of the order. JP said that he couldn’t afford this because we don’t want to fall behind early. But we are already doing that so the worst thing that could happen is that Mr. Thomas might be able to provide a few hits here and there and we might have won a game or 2 instead of losing those.
MW: Yes, but no one knew three weeks ago that the offense would get this bad.
- gregOh thank you merciful baseball gods! Thank you!
- TroyOn a day where the Jays hit into 4 double plays, 1 triple play, have at least 5 very hard hit balls turn into outs, go something like 2 for 11 with RISP and score 3 runs in 19 innings, they snap a 4-game losing streak.
It’s funny how this game works. This unlucky situation they’re in must be every superstitious ballplayer’s worst nightmare.
MW: Only 2-for-9, but you’re bang-on with everything else.
- XiaoWilner,
How am I suppose to feel? I can’t take this anymore. The pitching is just retarded good, but the hitting is just retarded bad. At what point do the pitchers just get fed up and start picking up bats or light a match under this offense? Have you heard any rumblings from this staff?
MW: When did the word “retarded” become inoffensive?
- Bobby“Is Jesse Litsch ready to be a #4 yet?”
Mike Wilner on JaysTalk
If a caller ever said that you would have a field day with it. LOL.
MW: I don’t think I would. I mean, I would say that position in the rotation doesn’t matter after the opening week in the overall sense, but there is a clear difference between the 5th starter and everyone else. The 5th guy is the guy who gets skipped, or should get skipped, when there’s an opportunity. There’s a shorter leash on him. Is Litsch ready for the additional responsibility of being one of the big four? I’m sure psychologically he is, but pitching-wise? I’m not as sure.
- AriThe Jays had the chance to skip Litsch already and didn’t. There is no additional responsibility to being #4 in the pecking order, and if pitching-wise he can pitch every 5 days in the majors then he can do it regardless of the other guys on the staff. If a guy is struggling he will get sent down, regardless of what # he is assigned heading into the season. (See : Rich Hill)
MW: I agree with you on your second point, but to the first - just because they haven’t yet doesn’t mean they can’t.
- AriAbout trading pitching for hitting… isn’t the point not whether Litsch and Purcey are ready, but that the Jays couldn’t get nearly enough offense return for Marcum or McGowan? (Adam Dunn isn’t the kind of bat to offset that much run prevention, and the soon-to-be-free-agents who could help this club [Chipper Jones, Manny Ramirez, Rafael Furcal, Mark Teixeira] probably aren’t available.)
MW: Furcal’s hurt now, so he’s out, but Teixeira may be available later in the season. You’re right, though, adding just one big bat doesn’t make up for what you lose.
- MichaelDo you know how many great prospects you can list that the A’s got for Dan Haren?
MW: The simple answer is six, but I’ll be nice and answer the question that you likely meant to ask, but didn’t. They got Carlos Gonzalez, a terrific outfield prospect, as well as lefties Greg Smith and Dana Eveland, who are already up and helping. Lefty Brett Anderson was Arizona’s 3rd-ranked prospect, for what that’s worth, outfielder Aaron Cunningham (who has drawm comparisons to Aaron Rowand), and power-hitting first baseman Chris Carter. That’s a nice haul there.
- andrewMaybe the jays need a lesson in “slump busting” from Mark Grace?
MW: They’ve already had that, thanks.
- GFinally! A win! So…
Jerry & Alan were discussing the value of hitting coaches during the first game today: the difficulty of changing approaches, etc. I gathered that Denbo & Brantley have different areas that they tend to focus on. Also referred to a relatively young and apparently intelligent player (Hill) only deciding to listen to the HC (Brantley) last year as a last resort in a very bad slump.
Given this, I am really not certain what value the HC brings, especially with “established, proven, veteran” players. However - HC’s are fairly cheap & easy to get compared to players & GM’s.
Wikipedia implies Brantley is unemployed. I don’t see last year’s results as being his fault. So, if it might help some players to ignore a different HC than the official one, why not bring back the old one that they were already comfortable with ignoring? Call him a consultant or 3rd vice-assistant HC or whatever.
Seriously, are any limits on the number of “coaches” a team can have, and do you think it might help?
MW: There’s a limit on uniformed coaches, but not on overall coaches, I don’t think, and no, I don’t think it would help.
- CharlesHere’s a list of decisions
release Frank Thomas as you don’t have time to wait for him to start hitting
Call up Adam Lind give him 6 games, send him down as you dont have time for him to start hitting
Put Stewart in full time, he aint doing much
Go Get Wilkerson…hasnt done much in years.
This doesn’t look pretty. Man I would prefer JP to go with somebody who has some upside in LF. IF he doesn’t want Lind or Botts….is there anyone out there in AAA who is being blocked that you see as someone who might be able to give hope.
I know JP has said he’s done with transactions, im just wondering if there is a name out there that you like?
MW: Barry Lamar Bonds
- PeeWeeSo now not only do we lead the league in grounding into double plays but we’re also tops in grounding/ lining into triple plays … excellent.
So I’m guessing that with tonight’s massive 3 run performance, coming off a 31 inning scoreless streak we can assume that bats are heatig up and coming around and it’s all good from here on in. Is Yonge St. or University Ave. a better route for the parade?
Everyone … it’s time to stop thinking that either JP or Gibbons or both should be fired because neither is going to happen. Godfrey is soooo enchanted with JP that he’ll never get rid of him and JP feels the same way about his good friend Gibbons so get used to it. This is the management team that will either get something done or not. No point in even discussing it … just like adding Barry Bonds.
MW: I think University Ave. is the way to go.
- Peter B.I’m not a huge fan of Gibbons but it is funny how he gets a lot of criticism for the hitting and not much praise for the pitching (myself included!) Or maybe it should go to Brad Arnsberg. Either way, I’m sure that if we were hitting and not pitching, everyone would be saying that Gibbons can’t handle his pitching staff.
Anyway, I just wanted to get your reaction the the article on mlb.com where Gary Denbo is quoted as saying (when asked about the Jays prolonged hitting slump):
“If I hadn’t been through this before many times throughout the years,” Denbo said, “it would probably be more frustrating for me.”
Kinda begs the question…just how MANY times has this happened to him?
The article later calls his style as having the hitters “pass the baton” as in taking walks and leaving it up to the next hitter. Might this explain why there offence is so lackluster? No aggressiveness? Thanks
MW: I like the “pass the baton” style. Trust the guys behind you so that you don’t have to expand your strike zone and swing at a pitch you don’t like.
- RichardMike
I assume you’re utterly disgusted by the first run tonight since Gregg Zaun bunted to advance 2 runners into scoring position and basically gave an out away in doing so. Your position is always that when things are not going well that you need all your outs and so that must have made your blood boil there in the 10th inning. I mean why didn’t he go up there and swing for a homerun?
Secondly, knowing your position about people shouldn’t lose their jobs for no good reason could you possibly explain your response the other day regarding Ernie Whitt. I assume someone asked about him becoming the manager and you responded that he couldn’t even handle being the bench coach. If a manager has no effect on a team, exactly how much influence/ effect can a bench coach have on a team to warrant losing his position? It may not be true but he came out and said that he wasn’t the person (moron) that submitted the wrong line-up twice last year. Do you think he didn’t put cream in Gibby’s coffee on a few occasions?
If anyone, get rid of Marty Pevey as the third base coach … he looks like a deer caught in the headlights there. I’m thinking of submitting my resume because I’ll actually watch the game as it’s going on. He should be sent down to make room for someone from the AAA squad in my opinion.
MW: Marty has been having his troubles, it’s true. I didn’t mind the bunt so much last night because it falls into the “acceptable zone” - first and second, none out, extra innings. Whether or not Whitt was responsible for submitting the incorrect line-ups on those two occasions last year isn’t at issue. Part of the bench coach’s job is to make sure things run smoothly during the game, and that includes checking the line-up to make sure it’s being followed properly. Checking the nine guys on the field at the start of the game to make sure they’re the same nine listed on the official line-up, that sort of thing.
- Peter B.Nice logical arguments there Mike, first saying the Jays draw more fans on an absolute basis than any other sports team in Toronto, then switching over to a per-game basis and leaving out the Argos and FC. Tricky stuff.
The very fact that you tried to argue that Toronto cares about the Jays by throwing out absolute attendance numbers is laughable. I don’t necessarily agree with Ari, but why you would throw that meaningless statement out I have no idea.
Also, you know as well as anyone that if this team sits at 58-72 and 17 games out of the playoffs(current pace) near the end of August, this team won’t outdraw many others in September.
MW: I didn’t think it needed to be said that the Jays outdraw the Argos and FC on a per-game basis, they do, and by a bunch. I don’t believe for a second that this team will be 58-72 at that point in the season, but if they are, yes, they will be outdrawn by everyone.
- Dan WDear Shawn: grow up.
Normally I hate using terms like ‘grow up’ or ‘maturity’ because they’re pretty silly measures that are based on collectively determined definitions and individuals shouldn’t necessarily be condemned for not fitting into that definition. But, why you don’t respect people, and why you even let them ruin experiences for you through no malicious intent of their own I doubt I’ll ever understand.
Oh, and please if you will, could you show me some evidence as to why those people’s claims are wrong? I mean, you know, actual conclusive stuff rather than one example that shows absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.
MW: There are plenty of examples of managers who have gone from genius to idiot and back (and forth and back). Shawn was right in that it’s the players that determine what happens on the field. The worst manager can win with the right players, and the smartest, best manager can’t do a thing without the right players. But Shawn could have been a little more tactful. That’s certainly not something that’s unique to him in these comments sections, though.
- Dan W