11:45 PM Eastern
“It can’t get much worse.”
A spectacular game ruined in the bottom of the 9th last night and by what? Vernon Wells’ inability to pick up a single as he charged it in medium-depth centre field. I will never pin the blame for a loss on one particular player (even though it looks like I just did), because there are always scenarios throughout the course of a game in which things could change in thousands of different ways, but when there’s a glaring mistake made on the play that causes the game to end, it really does stand out.
It’s too bad, because Wells could have – and probably should have – been the hero about 10 minutes earlier, but for Dustin Pedroia. The sophomore second baseman came out of nowhere to snare Wells’ rocket up the middle with two out in the top of the 9th, and threw him out as Scott Rolen was nearing the plate, ready to score what would have been the game’s first run had the ball gotten through.
How about Scott Rolen, by the way? I declared him the best Blue Jay ever on The JaysTalk tonight, and it was only a little bit facetious. He has provided an enormous spark since coming back from his grossitatingly nearly-shorn off finger, smacking an extra-base hit in each game and playing superb, flawless defence. His return has given the Jays everything they’ve needed – big hits, big presence, steadying influence on and off the field – except wins. They’re 1-3 with him, 10-13 without him. I guess he’s just not a winner.
Back to Vernon, though. There have been several comments and calls throughout the course of this season asking if I think Vernon has lost a step, or if his defense has dropped off, and I’ve responded by saying that it’s too early to tell and that even if he has lost half a step (which he may well have), he’s still a hell of a lot better than what most teams could put out there. The problem is this – that charge-in-to-pick-the-ball-up-and-fire it play. Same one as happened tonight on the game-winning hit. I can’t go back and look it up, but it feels as though that was about the fifth or sixth time that a VERY playable ball that Vernon has been charging has kicked off his glove this season. Usually it’s a harmless thing, and doesn’t even lead to a runner taking an extra base. Tonight, there’s a good chance it cost the Jays a run, and since that run was the only one that scored all night, the game.
David Ortiz does not run well, and he missed the Sox’ last game with a bruised knee, so tonight he was running even less well. Where was Jed Lowrie to pinch run, by the way? If Wells comes up with that ball cleanly, Ortiz is meatcake on any decent throw, and they’re still playing right now. Wells’ not being able to make that play was (a familiar refrain) inexcusable. And not even for a Gold Glover. A below-average centrefielder has to be able to pick up that ball cleanly.
I sincerely hope that Roy Halladay went up to Wells in the clubhouse after the game and said a simple “Come on!” or “Let’s Go!” or something to that effect. Some might advocate a more direct, physical approach, perhaps a surprise Andy Samberg-style “punch in the face and run away”, but I don’t know how effective that would have been.
Speaking of Halladay, how great was he? That was as dominating a performance as we’ve seen out of him all year – not a ball hit hard off of him until that rocket that Ortiz hit foul before he walked in the 9th. And yes, if that second-pitch change to Papi is called a strike, they’re probably still out there playing right now.
Raise your hand if, like me, you were hoping that Boston would get a second hit at some point, just so we could all be safe in the knowledge that Halladay wouldn’t have thrown a no-hitter if John McDonald had started at shortstop. There’s no way Mac doesn’t make the play on the second-inning grounder by Youkilis that just got past the dive of Eckstein up the middle. He probably doesn’t even leave his feet. Sadly, Boston’s second hit was even less impressive – a 30-foot dribbler by Brandon Moss in the 5th. Halladay deserved way better, but there’s no question in my mind that he should have been out there on the mound for the duration.
A lot of times Halladay gets his complete games just because of who he is, and if he wants to go back out there, he gets to go back out there, but tonight there was no decision to be made. He was dominating, as close to untouchable as a pitcher can get, and had only thrown 97 pitches through eight innings. He retired the first two hitters of the 9th on just six pitches, and after the walk to Ortiz, gave up a flare single to Manny Ramirez. No reason to yank him right there, none whatsoever.
(Remember, it was tied in the 9th, so you have to make sure you have some relievers ready to for the 16th and 17th.)
I was surprised to get calls from people who wanted the bullpen in to start the 9th. That’s just silly. This wasn’t a “leave Halladay in because he’s Roy Halladay” complete game. Not only did he deserve to finish it, he was the right choice. Halladay has now thrown four straight complete games and has gone over 115 pitches in just one of them, and that was only 117.
It was a fantastic game, but a real shame that it ended the way it did. I promise you, this team will hit. It might not ever blow the doors off, though it’s certainly due to, but it will hit.
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Vernon Wells poor defence is a reflection of his overall game. Hes just so lazy and relaxed. He is not the type of player you want to invest a lot of money in. Simply put, he is happy to collect his paycheque and does not really care about winning. Lastly, he lacks focus and intensity which is what the Jays lack as an entire team.
MW: Have you ever met him? You seem to know an awful lot about what’s going on inside his head.
- aviWilneezy,
I think Gibbons uses the old righty/lefty matchup waaaaaay too much. I understand that in general, left(right) handed hitters hit better against right(left) handed pitchers, but Gibbons matches it up that way every single time no matter the situation. Sometimes I would rather have a better left handed batter facing a left handed pitcher than a weaker right handed batter. It is just incredibly frustrating when I’ve seen Gibbons pinch hit someone like Barajas for Stairs, or having Stairs out of the starting lineup everytime there is a left handed pitcher. If he wanted to get Stewart in against the lefty, then start Stewart in LEFT for Lind, not for Stairs at DH. With Frank gone, Stairs should be our full time DH no matter what, with the platoon in left field with Lind dawg and Stewart. Or, they should really just sign Bonds already, I don’t care about the chemistry, I don’t care if he has any special requests, just sign him and let him do what he wants and help this team win on the FIELD. If Barry wants his own private washroom with a gold toilet, then, give it to him and lets get him on here.
MW: I took out your line after the gold toilet even though it was pretty funny, because this is a family blog. Stairs has an entire career of being a terrible hitter against lefties (.239/.333/.419), so I don’t have a problem with him sitting against them. I’d like to ask how long are the Jays going to let this last without signing Bonds, but it’s quite obvious that they’re not going bring him in.
- Brian VTo that guy on JaysTalk who defended Frank Thomas by saying Dave Winfield got off to a slow start in ’92 also:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=winfida01&t=b&year=1992
Nice job completely fabricating the truth. Releasing Frank was mostly a financial decision. JP knew he would heat back up but the slump gave him the excuse to release him.
I cringed every single time a grounder went to Eckstein. Not that Eck sucks but why wouldn’t you try to put Mac in there every time Doc starts? Gibby could’ve accounted for Johnny Mac’s bat by putting in Stairs instead of Stewart. Oh well.
MW: Except that Stairs doesn’t hit lefties well, as pointed out above. And good research on Winfield, but it was a soft .375 in April, of course.
- ShawnHi Mike, what is the over/under on the following:
a) JP is fired
b) Gibbons is fired
c) Overbay is traded
d) Burnett is traded
e) Bonds is signed.
Here are my guesses:
a) 2 weeks
b) 1 week
c) by May 15th
d) by June 15th
e) A day or two before Never
Here is what I THINK should happen:
a) Now (preferably yesterday)
b) Now
c) Now
d) As close to the trade deadline as possible
e) Tomorrow
Looking forward to your thoughts.
Kind regards,
Dedicated “flex pack” holder and Jays fan since 1985
MW: I’ll take the over on the first four propositions, though if the Red Sox sweep Gibby is in serious jeopardy (through almost no fault of his own). Bonds? Not even a day or two before never.
- Adam KGood Morning Mike.
Just want your thoughts on the following. I suppose one could argue my following thoughts are a direct result of the current slump the team is experiencing.
In December 1990 we made the biggest and best trade in club history. McGriff/Fernandez for Carter/Alomar. Obviously I’m not attempting to provide you with a history lesson, however my point being, that deal not only addressed a couple of positions on the Jays, but it addressed the culture of the club. Clearly the culture turned out to be nothing but a positive impact.
Do you think its time for Blue Jays brass to consider changing the culture of this team? Not to rip it apart and say we are rebuilding, just to deal a couple big guys for a couple of other big guys. Easier said than done I know. It’s just starting to feel as if a shrewd culture change to the club is what JP may need to address rather than waiting for hitters to come out of slumps. Just a thougth, perhaps such deals are better suited for the off-season.
Thank You
MW: Those deals rarely happen in-season, but the Glaus-Rolen trade was exactly that sort of trade.
- RamHi Mike,
I’m going to start off by stating for the record that I’ll be discussing something you don’t believe in, and that is leadership on a sports team. I have played on many teams over the years at both a high and low level of competition and I have always felt that a good leader makes a difference. You look up that player because of how hard and well they play, you trust they will make a big play to help your team win. You know that you don’t want to feel their disapproval if you play poorly or give a weak effort. They might even tell you that you have to do better.
I know you feel that every professional athlete is always trying their hardest and always caring what the outcome of their play is but if you think about it, that can’t be true. Some athletes are able to focus and give their best almost every time out. Some may let the aches and pains, and travel, and their personal lives, or perhaps even their contract effect their play. I’m sure you subscribe to the theory that players often have good performances in a contract year. There is variability in how often you are getting close to their peak performance.
So if we accept the possibility that even professional athletes aren’t giving absolutely 100% effort and focus on every single moment and play then we have to admit that there may be a role for someone that can push players to achieve close to their best as often as possible. That is a role for a manager. In my opinion that is also a role for a team leader. I believe they actually exist and aren’t just made up by the media when a team wins. If there was a leader on this team, he should say something to Wells for the 5th or 6th bobble he has made this season on routine grounders. I have said before that Halladay may be the leader for the pitchers the way they are always talking about his work ethic and trying to copy it.
Unfortunately, on a ballteam pitchers are one group and position players another. I feel the position players need someone to be that guy, to tell Vernon he has to throw out fat, hobbled David Ortiz with a Roy Halladay shutout on the line. To suggest to Shannon Stewart that he might want to wait more than one pitch before hitting into a double play following an Overbay walk from a guy throwing a one-hitter.
Baseball is about more than assembling a bunch of players based on their statistical abilities and placing them on the field to wait for the expected result to produce the desired outcome. Players are human beings and respond to fear, confidence, responsibility, hope, resignation and a bunch of other emotions that can be effected by having a great leader both in the dugout and on the field. That person can change the outcome of a game with their own efforts as well as affecting those of their teammates.
At least thats my opinion. And this team needs one among the position players. And I’m sadly coming to realize that it isn’t the teams highest paid player.
MW: The team’s highest-paid player is actually A.J. Burnett, believe it or not, and the highest-paid position player is Scott Rolen, who is exactly that kind of player. You’re right, these are human beings, not just robots who go out and produce. My issue is that every team that has ever won has “great leaders” and teams that lose don’t, and that’s just not the case. If you’re surrounded by crap, it doesn’t matter how good a “leader” you are, and if you’re a very good player surrounded by other good players who wind up winning, you’re going to be known as a “great leader” whether you are one or not. Fat, hobbled David Ortiz, for example, is by all accounts a great teammate. He’s always smiling and laughing, keeps things loose, walks around with peanut butter in his underwear, etc. The kind of guy who is a necessity on a winning team. Except for the fat, hobbled and peanut butter, you could say all those same things about Vernon Wells, but because the Jays haven’t won, he’s TOO loose and TOO relaxed.
- MontyLets think of this season with a bit of the half-full outlook.
It continues to amaze me is that the Jays are seemingly in every game in spite of the fact they really haven’t hit well for some time. This is a tremendous pitching staff. What is more then that is that it would seem that since the majority of it is young that we are looking at several years of good pitching. To go one step further it I would say that the current management team can evaluate pitching talent very well and thus we could be looking at good pitching for a long time to come.
Also I agree this team WILL start to hit (unless someone has put something into the water in Toronto, but that is impossible since my cat seems fine).
Keep up the good work.
MW: Thanks. Keep an eye on the cat.
- AaronBy the way, since you referenced a song to sum up the Jays, here’s another that sums up the feelings of Jays fans: Cruel Summer by Bananarama. We’re gonna need a baseball version of Mr. Miyagi to get through this season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebIhzVlmGls
- ShawnMike:
May looks ominous, based on a couple of factors. Those being that the Jays will only have one day off in May, plus a number of tough series. I estimate that they will win 12 to 13 games in May, based on their current performance and I think I am being generous at this point. If that comes to fruition, then the Jays will need to win approximately 70 games in the remaining 4 months.
Having said that, the Jays now have an injury-free line-up (with the exception of Janssen), so it’s time to show what they are made of, regardless of a tough schedule. If they can’t deliver in May, then I would have to say their chances of making the post-season are slim. Tonight’s performance does not give me hope.
On a side note, I have Jason Bay in my pool and he is kicking butt for me so far, with another killer game tonight. Bay’s teamate Xavier Nady is also in my pool and doing well for me so far. It’s too bad we will not be able to see Bay in Toronto this year.
MW: Well, they had two off-days in April and a relatively easy schedule, and they messed their nests rather nicely. So it would only be fitting to see them go 20-10 in May, which could happen but is highly, highly doubtful. I’m with you, if they can’t deliver in May, their post-season chances are very slim indeed.
- Greg C“not a ball hit hard off of him until that rocket that Ortiz hit foul before he walked in the 9th”
There was that line drive hit at Overbay… you forgot about that one.
MW: Yeah, there was that. OK – 31 hitters, two hard-hit balls, one fair.
- ErikHEY BROTHER
LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING MEAN GENE, I FOUND THE PINCH HITTING OF ECKSTEIN TO BE VERY ODD BROTHER. YOU MAY THINK THIS IS STRANGE BUT LET ME EXPLAIN WHY BROTHER DUDE. GIBBONS HAS SAID ALL YEAR LONG ECKSTEIN WOULD LEAD-OFF, AND NOW SAYS HE WILL HIT 2ND EVERYDAY. DON’T YOU THINK THE MANAGER SHOULD HAVE ENOUGH CONFIDENCE TO LEAVE HIS LEADOFF OR #2 HITTER IN THE LINEUP BROTHER? FRANKLY IF YOU ASK THIS POSTER, IT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT ECKSTEIN IS SO HIGH IN THE BATTING ORDER BECAUSE OF HIS NAME, NOT HIS BAT, AND EVEN THE MANAGER DOESNT HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN HIM BROTHER. IN CLOSING I JUST HAVE 1 QUESTION, WATCHYA GONNA DO WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU!?
MW: It’s hard to take your good points seriously because of this odd personality disorder you seem to have.
- TerryIt was a fantastic game tonight and an unfortunate ending. However, there’s no guarantee that had Vernon fielded the ball cleanly that they get Ortiz at the plate anyway. Looking at the replay, he had a good jump because there were 2 outs and seeing as Wells decided not to even attempt a throw after just a split second miscue it would have been super close even with a great throw … at least that’s my opinion.
I just wanted to say that I read Scott Carson’s (I believe he sits in the booth with the TV guys) column on the Sportsnet website and I agree wholeheartedly with him and particularly like the following excerpt …
“But for those of us who see the glass half empty, we know that the Jays may have missed their only opportunity to put some distance between themselves and the two behemoths of the East. The Red Sox and Yankees, currently going through an early season spate of injuries, will get healthy and start rolling again. By losing 15 of their first 26 games, the Jays have only made it harder when they get into August and September and need to make up ground. And the fact that 11 of their 15 losses have come against the Orioles, Athletics, Royals, Rays and Rangers – all considered to be second division teams by the pre-season prognosticators – makes this slow start all the more troubling. The Blue Jays frustrating practice of playing to their level of the opponent, a common thread during the Ricciardi era has already put the team behind the eight-ball even with 136 games to play”
I think at the moment the goal should be to get back to .500 by the end of May … I think that’s a realistic timeframe given the past history of this team. There’s a tough 7 game homestand awaiting them that they could really use a 5-2 record in. Once again, just my opinion.
MW: The goal should be just to get back to .500. If you give yourself a month to do it, it’ll take you a month to do it (assuming you can). It could happen far sooner than that if they would just start hitting the freakin’ ball!
- Peter B.I don’t understand the practice of people just grabbing whole paragraphs of someone else’s writing and copying it, even with attribution. I’ve seen people do it with my stuff, too, I just don’t get it.
So this team that crushed lefty starters last year has very few changes and is suddenly 0-5 when facing a lefty?
MW: Weird, huh? Rolen for Glaus is not a good trade-off against lefties, having a punchless Thomas, and now no Thomas has an effect, too.
- TorgenWow. What a great game pitched by the Doc. That was vintage Doc, bunch of worm burners and very efficient use of pitches. The yellow hammer was there tonight with the 12 to 6 curve..havent seen that in a while. But alas, MW, did you really have any doubt as to how this would end? It was quite obvious what was going to happen, but when was a different story. I was thinking Doc loses 1-0 in 11 innings, not 9.
Lester pitched a good game for sure, but with the anemia of the bats, its always hard to tell if its the pitcher or the hitters. Id say combination of both. The jays might have had all of 5 aggressive swings (let alone contacts) all game. Rios gets up 3-0 right off the bat and cant work his way on base…that was a harbinger fo’ sho.
Aaron Hill is so frustarting to watch. It seems as though he’s either going 20-30 or 2-25. Come on… i know hitters tend to be streaky, but with Hill its borderline ridiculous, he’s either on a tear or in a slump..how but a few 8-32′s Aaron?
Lastly, I would rather see scutaro, barajas, tilson brito, angel martinez, cliff johnson, jorge orta, or even dick schofield as a righty DH over Shannon “why make one out when you can make two” Stewart. He’s awful, he’s done, and hes a waste of space on a 40 man roster. time for a DFA
MW: Remember who else used to either go 20-30 or 3-40? Some guy named Carter.
- sammy jalalzaiYou know the team is crumbling from the top when Halladay clearly shows up Wells by giving him a glare. Its fair to say clubhouse chemistry has hit the basement.
When is the cut off date for the “too early to tell” excuse for all blue jay problems?
MW: What, that they’re going to keep hitting like a little league team? That’ll never happen. This is not the worst collection of hitters ever assembled in the history of major-league baseball, despite how they have looked for the last two weeks.
- Brett Vpathetic, disgusting, horrid, putrid, awful, gross, unwatchable, nauseating, boring, hideous, frustrating, demoralizing, making-me-realise-I-take-blue-jays-baseball-way-to-seriously…
This offense is the biggest band of wimps I’ve ever come across. 0 runs when Halladay pitches his heart out. And we all know who the leader of this brigade is: Vernon Wells. He is a lazier version of Vince Carter – can’t lead, doesn’t inspire, and isn’t tough.
I think Gibbons has to go now. Not that he had done all that much wrong – except for lining up Eckstein in the 2 spot – but things need more shaking up and a team kick-in-the-arse. Also, I think Vernon needs to sit the next game because of that horrible defensive mistake.
- PaulI can’t believe everyone is saying halladay is so great…he’s a ’333′ Pitcher for crying out loud!
He’s lost it, and anyone that saw him last nite will know that when it came down to it, he just didn’t have it in him to get the W – the only meaninful statistic for judging pitchers.
PS: Bert Blylevin was rubbish.
- AndrewPPS: LOL
mike
Isnt Jonny Mac Halladay’s preferred shortstop anyhow….with the high percentage of ground ball out with Doc hurling it makes sense to start JMac when Roy is pitching.
If this losing and inability to win continues thru this weekend I am sorry to see if happen but Gibby will take the axe.
this team needs something to wake them up and it would be a shame if its Gibby. If not maybe its Dembos fault that no one can hit a lefty or for that matter a watermelon.
Hoping this ship aint sinking but it does feel like it.
- Cary CCoulda, shoulda, woulda. It all adds up to a loss. Maybe Vernon should try loosing some weight, he looks chunky and slow.
- Stephen SmithVernon Wells look like a complete mistake right about now forRicardi.
I blame the Blue Jays mediocrity, however on the GM part largely because it seem like most of his signing were either a bust or the production are never at the expect value he sign them for. Burnet is a flop, Wells looking more and more like a mistake, Reed release was a dumb move believed by many including me.
I was actually horrifed and shock that he was release, and the Jays decided to keep the aging Stewart??.. I have no f**king idea why. The dumping of Frank thomas of $8 million is just sad, and for nothing.. I’m never a fan of John Gibbons and I am not now. There are so many experience and supposely better candidate in Major league.. why hire a coach with no exprience whatsoever? Better, why not fire him now? I feel sorry for Doc, you’re right about one thing Wilmer, he deserve alot alot better than this team gave him.
- PaulHello Mike,
First off, great job picking up the call when the radio feed from Fenway was lost for a bit there, It was good to still hear what was going on.
My question is a simple one. In an interview with Allan Ashby the question to him was ‘what is wrong with Vernon Wells’, and his answer was that he didn’t know, only that Wells has phenomenal talent that has yet to be fully realized. (Allan stating this only for the time frame he’s been calling games) I think it seems apparent to all of us that this version of Vernon Wells is very different than 2006, but why is that, do you think? And what needs to be done about it? Is this something other players do (like Halladay, as you suggested) or is this a management thing, to get him back to practising fundamentals, or is it just a slow start to ride out? What do you think?
MW: I think it’s a slow start – actually a slow two weeks, because he was off to a terrific start. Alan hasn’t seen Vernon play to his potential yet, but he can see that it’s there. When you have a slow start coming off a terrible year, people are going to start doubting your ability and the knee-jerks like the ones higher in this comments section will all come out and say how terrible you are and how they always knew you were awful and you never should have been signed even though they were probably the ones leading the cheers when the contract was actually signed.
- kitaThat was a fantastic game to watch! Just a liitttle bit frustrating with regards to the offence. Bring in Bonds. How long before Doc gets really annoyed at the lack of offence and winning and wants out in some off season?
MW: I don’t think those things will ever happen – bringing in Bonds or Doc asking out.
- Michael KrimmerWell – it’s official. I’ve moved to the dark side. I am (next to you, Mike) the biggest PollyAnna fan this team has, but I am now disgusted and discouraged. Vernon!?!?!?! He doesn’t catch it, then he doesn’t even TRY to throw it. For the love of God, it was David Ortiz! On second base! My grandma would have at least tried to throw him out.
Watching Johnny Mac rot on the bench is breaking my heart. I’d rather see him play somewhere else than not play at all. It’s a sin that a man with that defensive talent is being treated like some third rate bench warmer. FREE JOHNNY MAC! While we’re at it, FREE ROY HALLADAY! How sad is that? 3 complete games in a row, and they can’t come up with a win. Sad, sad, sad.
Sigh…
MW: It would have been nice to see Vernon at least throw the ball after he picked it up. He had no chance, but it would have made people think he has “heart” and “grit”.
- JayjaySadly it seems that the Jays are destined for a 1 and 8 road trip. Good thing they won one in KC. Dustin has been bad on the road plus he is up against one of their best. Not much hope in that game. Next comes Thursday and the Jays have only avoided a sweep once (in KC) and have yet to win on Thursday so a win seems unlikely.
It seems like this team has a big curse on it.
One thing I can’t understand is how the Jays went from beating up on almost all left handed pitchers last year and this year can barely get a hit against them. Was Troy Glaus that much of a factor?
MW: Yeah, they’re probably going to get swept because they haven’t won on a Thursday yet. You do realize how ridiculous that is, right?
- JayHe Mike,
Do you ever think that Rios would be a viable center fielder? I know it is a bit early but would the Jays ever explore a Vernon trade? Based on reports Cincinatti is looking to trade Adam Dunn, would that be an option?
Thanks,
Jon
MW: I wouldn’t trade seven years of Wells for one of Dunn. Rios can play centre, though.
- JonWow Mike,
This team could’nt hit a white whale surrounded by a black background.
If I am Roy Halladay, I would probably be borderline crazy at this point. I don’t think I have ever seen a guy throw 3 straight complete game losses in my lifetime. That seems like it is something that was prominent in the mid-20′s.
Alan Ashby said it best on Primetime that the ‘Jays seem to be digging their hole with spoons’ which means that they really haven’t lost any ground, but C’MON.
Of all the years, THIS year seems like it is the Jays best opportunity to get back into the postseason with everyone save for those ‘red-hot’ ORIOLES and those WORLD-BEATING RAYS stumbling in the AL EAST.
It is now April 30th and urgency needs to be there.
Message to JP: Just sign that 44 year old steroid-infested jerk and lets win some games.
MW: The urgency is there, the hitting just isn’t.
- MarkHi Mike,
I’ll wait until the Jays are out of their funk to ask my manager/GM question (so you don’t think it is just because of this low point).
I’ll admit that I am one of those fans that some would consider a Gibbons hater, however I have been somewhat impressed by him over the past week.
I was really happy to see the batting order change earlier this week (I really hate when a team gets in a slump and the same lineup is put out there every day with the expectation that things will eventually change). I was also happy to see that Gibbons FINALLY put J-Mac out for defense in the 9′th last night. Maybe he will do this on a more regular basis now.
I also have been regularly reading your blog with an open mind and you have started to sway my opinion about him. Just wanted you to know that you are having an effect!
MW: Thanks, but McDonald wasn’t out there for defense in the 9th last night, he was out there because Stairs pinch-hit for Eckstein in the top of the inning.
- Glenn WaddenThis recent losing string has reached a hilarious point, when you think about it. It’s like you said, “Nobody is this bad.” As a fan you almost wonder how they’re going to blow it next. I remember feeling this way last May, as well. This funk will end, just like that one did (well, to a certain extent). You can’t ask any more of the pitching staff, and the hitting will come, but hopefully it won’t come too late for them to make a run at this thing.
- Mike MG’day MW!
One Q which popped into my head last night while listening – where on earth did Kenny Lofton go and why hasn’t anyone signed him yet?
Now that April’s wrapping up, what are your three biggest surprises (+ or -) in the league so far?
MW: Lofton is still a free agent, evidently unwilling to accept a minor-league contract in the spring, and only willing to sign with someone who will make him a starter right now. Three biggest surprises, huh? Positive – Orioles, A’s and Marlins. Negative – Blue Jays, Indians, Padres.
- ShawnSWhen is John Gibbons going to take the fall for this underacheiving group. There is not the injury issue they had last year but still the team has no spark. It is time for a change, someone who can shake things up. I know the team plays hard and I am sure they want to win but I think they lack the killer instinct. What are you hearing about Gibbys status? Is he on the hot seat? When will JP realizie this may not be the guy to get them over the hump?
MW: Someone is going to have to explain to me how this is Gibbons’ fault without using words like “intensity”, “leadership” and “intangibles”. Actual, concrete facts that everyone can see and not just intuit.
- JoeFrustrating. Infuriating. Dumbfounding. This Jays team has ignited a lot of negativity in me.
I have four comment-questions, two focused on (possible scapegoat) Vernon Wells:
1. I assume a healthy Vernon can make those put-outs from CF. But as you’ve noted, we’ve seen already a few times this season where he hasn’t. Is there any concern that he’s not entirely healthy? (But it’s his left shoulder, so maybe that doesn’t make much sense.)
2. Vernon had a great chance in his AB in the 9th. Really, it was a good hit. But Vernon is fast. I would consider fast enough to make a close play at first even with Pedroia’s stop. (Pure speculation warning:) Is there a chance he assumed it was a base hit and didn’t hustle it out completely? And if it was going to be a close play, where’s the slide into first base? In general, where did slides into first go for a close play? (quietly: a certain Jeed Rhonson would have…)
3. You’ve mentioned it time and time again that MacDonald should have played the whole game at SS. I couldn’t agree with you more. Every time Eckstein had a play, I tensed up. I really wish Jays management would listen the eff up. Where’s Mac?
4. I used to be a pitcher, and was frustrated when I felt my team let me down. I’m not saying I have 1% the patience, class, and experience of Doc, but it’s got to get to him. He deserves better. Do you think he’s going to have words with his team soon? It seems he would be the guy to do it. Something along the lines of “Step up, boys” to the offense, or “I give you one job and you didn’t do it” to Vernon.
Gah!
MW: I don’t know if Wells is completely healthy. If he isn’t, we may never know, he did a great job hiding the shoulder thing from the media/fans all last year.
- BrandonNot a chance that lack of hustle had anything to do with Wells getting thrown out in the 9th last night. The ball was hit so hard that it was in Pedroia’s glove before Vernon had even taken two steps out of the batters’ box.
Sliding into first base is about the stupidest thing a baserunner can do, unless it’s to avoid a tag. All it is is a show of “hustle”, misplaced. Sliding slows you down, and I don’t know why you would want to slow down when you’re trying to beat a close play.
Not pinch running for Ortiz there was about as bad as a managing decision can get. It should have cost them the game.
On a side note, Any chance that JP works something out to bring in Jason Botts who was recently DFA’d, he would provide a lot better depth in my opinion if one of our 1B/DH/LF was to get injured. right now with an injury there we are looking at Rod freaking Barajas.
MW: As bad as Botts has looked in his big-league cups of coffee, he’s a guy I’d take a flyer on. He’s been a great Three True Outcomes guy in the minors, and could be one of those late-blooming (for a year anyway) Jack Cust types. Last year in AAA he hit .320/.436/.545 and is a career .293/.399/.484 in the minors. Is he going to be better than Adam Lind? Lind is younger, and has had close to equal in the minors, and Lind is a better defender. Is he going to be better than Shannon Stewart and Rod Barajas from this point forward? I’d take that bet.
- PeeWeeHi, Mike:
I agree with those who are questioning Vernon’s defense this year, but I have a slightly different tack as to the possible reason. Can it be that he has picked up a few extraneous pounds this year? Somehow to me he looks a bit heavier than he used to.
The corollary to that question is that — if the answer is yes — then theoretically at least he could drop a few pounds and get his defensive skill back to where it was in prior years.
MW: Vernon has always been a big guy, fullback size. He doesn’t seem any heavier to me now than he was last year.
- NormMike .. president of the JP fan club, 7 years of this guy running this club, the 25th ranked farm system, no depth if there are injuries and you are still the biggest JP fan. These players are merely an extension of the leadership of this club, however, we are stuck with this leadership for another 2 + years of this incompetence.
MW: Yep, everything J.P. has touched has turned to mould.
- BobMike,
I don’t know where you get your optimism from… saying this team will hit etc. Are you going by historical precedent, projections, PECOTA? Because some of those same projection-based systems estimate the Jays finishing 4th or 5th. I know the games have to be played, and I don’t 0put too much stock in projections, but I see absolutely no reason for optimism here. This team is lame. Please throw a bone to all the depressed hordes, if you can.
MW: OK. Right now, the Blue Jays are hitting at a rate that would make them one of the worst offensive clubs in the history of the universe, major-league baseball or otherwise. It can’t continue. Once it stops, there will be far more opportunity for wins, since they’ve been hittiing at an historic level of awfulitude and still have been in every game they’ve played. How’s that?
- WojtekMike, what’s your favourite Lennon album?
I’ll go with Imagine although I’m sure most people would go with Plastic Ono Band.
MW: Just solo, no Beatles? Because The Beatles were really good and stuff. I like a lot of the music off both those albums, but being the ’80s guy I am, I have to be true to myself and say Double Fantasy.
- Christopher JonesThat is how baseball is meant to be played. Save for the one gaffe (and it’s unfortunate that so well played a game should end with such carelessness), this was perfect – and felt in a lot of ways like October baseball. Speaking of which…
While I still don’t feel like this team is ready to win, and until they start winning that’s obviously so, I don’t think it’s quite time to blow this team up – in fact, I don’t think JP should. The pitching is solid, and that’s a base upon which a winner can be built. With the exception of catcher, and assuming they play the right SS (BRING BACK MAC!!), they’re rock solid up the middle. Throw in excellent corner defense, Lyle Overbay being under appreciated me-thinks and you’ve got a team that can compete – but I don’t think it’ll be this year. Wait until next year (sounding like the Brooklyn Baseball Cantata) when Marcum, McGowan and maybe Litsch should truly realize their potential; spend AJ money on a big scary bat- a la Mark Teixeira; cross your fingers that Adam Lind or Travis Snider can step up, and I see no reason why they can’t win next year. Based upon 25 man rosters today, I’d much rather be a Jays fan going forward than a Yankees fan. Of course, the Yankees are evil AND A-Rod is mean to seniors, children and puppies – so that goes without saying.
Cheers, and a happy hump day to all.
MW: Plus I once saw A-Rod eat a baby. But that next-year refrain is something we’ve heard the last couple of seasons. It’s time for next year to get here already.
- AdamHeartbreaking as it was to lose that game, honestly not all that discouraged. Think about it: The World Series champs were life and death to squeak out a V against the J’s ..at home (and you could tell the way they celebrated it was a significant win for them). Also our ace is still one of the best, and we have good arms behind him. Our situational hitting can’t be much worse, and still 4 games off the lead. You are correct, the team WILL hit in the right situations. Like everyone I do have questions about this team, but when you look at the standings, and how the J’s have played, last night just goes into the “shoulda” or “9 times in 10″ category. Heartbreaking yes. Defining moment for the season, no.
MW: Good way to look at things.
- Paul RyanRight on Mike.
I think you just said what every reasonably smart Jays fan was thinking last night.
How many times out of 10 do you think Pedroia makes that play? This is why the Jays’ BABIP is so low with RISP this season, just plain BAD luck.
The Drunk Jays Fans have been calling Scott Rolen the best blue jay ever since his first game.
MW: I’m hopping on their bandwagon!
- JoelThe problem with Vernon, in my opinion, is that he doesn’t look like he cares. He trots off the field last night with the ‘offending’ ball in his glove with this casual ‘what’s the big deal?’ look.
Remember the first game of the season at Yankee Stadium which was rained out? TV viewers were subjected to the Rogers/Blue Jays propaganda special on the ’08 Jays. Lot’s of guys, like Vernon, telling us how this year was going to be different, that guys in the clubhouse just want it more. Vernon looks like he really doesn’t give a s***.
MW: Would you have preferred Wells to lie prostrate on the grass in centrefield and begin ripping out his own insides with his spikes?
- BenA tough loss, I even got in a fight with my fiance cuz she said it was just a game…but she couldn’t understand how good the game was…. thinking back, it was dumb to fight over it but I hate when people say “it’s just a game” it is, but we as fans have so much invested in this team lose or win….
- Randyso I dunno, I thought Roy deserved a better outcome….4 straight complete games with the last 3 resulting in a loss….
You want a bad time not to run out a grounder? How about Vernon Wells last night, the “would-be-hero.” Did anyone notice that notwithstanding Pedroia’s great play, Wells might have been safe at first if he had been running full speed? That’s two glaring mistakes in my book, mistakes that cost the Jays the game. Those are the kinds of mistakes that perhaps deserve a benching. (Contrast that with Rios, whose mistakes have done zero damage. The dropped ball in Texas, for example, the play people speculate he was benched for, led to zero unearned runs and the Jays won the game).
MW: Just how fast do you think Wells is? I couldn’t believe he got as close to first as he did, given that Pedroia had the ball in his glove less than a second after it left the bat. Ben Johnson at his ultimate ‘roided-up monsterness doesn’t beat that play.
- Shmuel“Raise you hand if, like me, you…”
I’m sure someone’s pointed this out already, but you forgot the “r” on the first your. I think you said you can go back and change it.
I missed this game, and it sounds like a doozy. We all have to take solace that no one is running away with the American League yet. Someone’s going to get hot soon, and there’s no reason it can’t be us–opps I mean the Jays. :)
MW: Nobody pointed it out, good eye. I’ll go fix it. Typos are more bound to happen when I blog from the radio station with its tiny little keyboards. This was the wrong game to miss, but at least you didn’t wind up tearing your hair out or fighting with your girlfriend or some such.
- michaelMike,
I agree wiht you about Vernon. I have been noticing a lack of charging the ball. It seems even some balls in the gap that he would get in the past he is not getting to.
Speaking of which…has any of the jays outfielders even dove for a ball this year? every night I see diving cathes…don’t think I seen that once from Jays out field this year.
I agree with what you said on the radio earlier. Johnny Mac should always play when Roy pitches.
It was nice to see Roy do so well. It was nice to see him p****d at Wells at the end too.
MW: I have seen at least Wells and Rios dive for balls in the outfield this year, not sure about the other guys.
- MathewI’m not sure what the best adjective would be to describe the past couple of weeks of Blue Jays baseball: pathetic? Inept? Impotent? Dismal? Frankly, I find it amazing that you’ve managed to write as many words as you have (over 1000!) about this latest “effort”. This is the worst stretch I’ve ever seen because, given the team we should have, their performance has been unfathomably abysmal. (It makes it worse than other stretches because they have the best team, I think, they’ve had since ’94.) How long do you think this goes on before serious changes are made? If this continues, and good Lord I hope it doesn’t and logically it can’t, I think Gibby’s gone mid-month and J.P. won’t make it to the All-Star break. None of this is either of their faults. On paper, this is a very good team and that’s J.P. job. All a GM can do is create a team on paper. Sure he’s made some mistakes, but what GM hasn’t? As an aside, Vernon sure is streaky. Most batters are, but when Vernon goes cold, he goes cooooooooold. Here’s my line-up suggestion:
1.Eckstein
2. Overbay
3.Rios
4.Rolen
5. Stairs
6. Wells
7. Hill
8. Lind
9. Zaun
I’d release Barajas and play Diaz at least twice a week.
Like always Mike, your thoughts are encouraged, especially in these darkest days.
MW: I like impotent the best as a descriptor of the Jays play over these last two weeks. Line-up wise, I’d go Overbay-Hill – Rios- Stairs-Rolen-Wells-Lind-Zaun-Eckstein/McDonald, but that’s just me. Ideally, it’s Hill-Rios-Bonds-Rolen-Stairs-Wells-Overbay-Zaun-McDonald/Eckstein, though.
- peteMichael of the Ballyard:
You said last night, in defense of keeping Zaun in the lineup long-term, that he’s been one of the Jays’ best hitters. My counterpoint to that would be that that’s more of a reflection on the other hitters than Zaun.
So, if you’ll never advocate firing a manager just for the sake of change (forcing the proverbial buck to stop somewhere) and you feel that, at most, an either terrible or exceptional manager can influence the outcome of 5-10 games per season (a fact you’ve stated several times during my time listening to you), when exactly do you advocate firing a manager?
MW: When he’s making horrible strategic moves, ruining the club’s chances to win on a regular basis, when conflicts with players prevent him from putting out a proper line-up, when the complaints from players grow to the extent that they want him gone, when a team loses 12 in a row, when a much, much better manager is available, stuff like that.
- JCLHoping the hitting comes soon. Do you think Doc is going back to the old days of throwing 20 or so complete games? And as you mentioned, it’s not like his pitch count is ridiculously high. He needs run support. Alan or Jerry made a good point, which harps again on the RISP, but one of them stated that the Red Sox pitching has not been as good as last year, but going into last nights game hitting .302 with RISP which is why they are 16-12. They also mentioned how the Jays are handling right handed pitchers so much better than lefties so far, do think that the difference is Matt Stairs hitting .300 at DH and the combo of Thomas and Stewart so far, which is about .200? Hopefully the offence warms up as the weather does.
MW: Except that before last night, Stewart was killing lefties. If the Jays were hitting .302 with RISP for the season, they’d probably be about 18-8.
- Aaron KerI wonder if Vernon Wells and Andruw Jones are buddies…
- MCHi Mike,
Love the show, love the blog.
Now, I agree completely that Halladay should have come out for the 9th inning last night… BUT… some of the other complete games in this 4 games streak… come on!
Halladay in his career has had only ONE season where he pitched over 250 innings – and guess what happened the next season… not so surprisingly …shoulder problems.
This drives me bananas. Our greatest strength is our starting pitching… let’s not burn them out.
As the only remaining AJ fan in Toronto, I look forward to a great outing tonight – and watching him stay in too long….
MW: Don’t look too forward to a great outing from A.J. tonight, he’s not pitching until tomorrow.
- TCI know the season is still early. Just how many games need to be played until we stop saying, “I know the season is still early”?
However, it seems that there is something amiss with the Jays bats. Their pitching, to me, is great (even if AJ Burnett makes me nervous!).
Mike, you have stated that hitting coaches in the majors are overrated. (If the hitters do well they are geniuses. If they suck, then can them. – The prevailing beleif)
This being said, what is it that the Jays have to do to get past this hurdle?? Is it just clutch hitting that has tanked (making this a “mental” issue) or have the Jays got a rotten batch of sticks from Louisville???
Karim Kanji
MW: They’re in a team-wide (save for Rolen) slump of near-unfathomable proportions with runners in scoring position. The only thing they have to do to get over the hurdle is, sadly, wait it out.
- karim kanjiVernon is a big area of concern, esp. since Thomas is gone. He has a larger responsibility to power the offense. The fielding miscues may be symptomatic of a guy who’s lost it or is in the process of losing it. I’m not writing him off yet, but it’s becoming easier to make the argument that the Jays vastly overpaid for a guy who is now merely “good” instead of the hoped for “terrific ballplayer” label that BP used to describe him after his first 2-3 years.
What does 126 million get you these days? Is a .900 OPS enough? Doesn’t seem like a good deal to me and it’s not certain that Vernon can even make that number over the long haul.
MW: It’s not your money, so it shouldn’t matter how much the Jays are paying him. They gave him a contract as what was market value at the time, and if it was terribly wrong, that will be one of the factors in J.P. Ricciardi losing his job.
- MerlinMike,
I just want to say that i think you and McCown have a pretty solid 1-2 punch going in the sports talk department! I have two questions for you, one about the lineup the other Vernon Wells. First, watching this team at the plate the last couple of weeks and it started for me during the Oakland series at the Rogers Center, a lot of their play reminds me of what their problems were last year and the year before, hitting with RISP and taking advantage of other teams mistakes. Just wondering if their still playing this way into May could it be possible that this is not a problem with coaching, management or injuries but that this is pausibly the makeup of the team/lineup(not lumping pitchers into this)??? Then that leads me to the next question about VW. I watch the Jays baseball program sunday’s on RSN that shows a lot of behind the scenes stuff. Last year midway through the season and even towards the end we saw a lot of goofing off by VW. Playing with nerf guns and throwing pies in people’s faces…..i have no problem with VW he seems like a good guy but i question the thought of putting any leadership responsibilities on him? Wondering what your thoughts are about that and if he’d be your guy to lead a team into the playoffs? Maybe just maybe the quote of Halliday saying their needs to be a “sense of urgency” was not just a “rally the troops” speech for everyone on the team but maybe directed at one or more key individuals? Thanks.
Aaron
MW: I’ve already mentioned above what I think about the concept of leadership, so scroll up and check that out. As far as the make-up of the line-up is concerned, it’s puzzling. They’re all good hitters. Right now, I think it has more to do with bad luck than with anything else, though I know that’s not what people want to hear. And thanks for lumping me in with McCown, he’s the best sports talk radio host there is.
- AaronHi Mike:
I am starting to worry about Vernon Wells. Both Mom and I watch the games regularly and we have seen Vernon miss balls that he would have caught in previous years. I am beginning to wonder if there is some kind of injury that he is playing through and is not telling us about. Remember the shoulder last year? He tried to keep it a secret until the Jays’ hitting coach spilled the beans in September.
MW: He did keep it a secret, and was very upset when the secret got out. If he’s hurt again, we’ll never know unless someone else spills it. But if the Jays know he’s hurt (which I would assume they would), then he should be getting more days off and not hitting in such a prominent spot in the line-up.
- Kevin HuberLast night David Purcey worked 8 shutout innings of a game won by Syracuse 1-0 with a run in the top of the 9th.
He gave up only 2 hits, walked one, and K’d 9, dropping his ERA to 1.64.
Looks like a pretty nice “insurance policy” should any of the Jay starters falter or have injury issues.
- NormHey, Mike. Love your show and your blog. One question: I know you say that the team will hit eventually and that their batting average with RISP at the end of the year will be within 5 points of their overall team average. My question is, was it within 5 points last year? Because last year it felt like they were pretty bad offensively all year. Also, what about their slugging with RISP? It’s got to be microscopic!
-Nick in Toronto
MW: Last season, the Jays hit .259 overall, but .276 with RISP. Their slugging with RISP this year is, indeed, horrifying. At .310, it’s the worst in the AL by 55 points!
- nick“Dominant”
A word you used repeatedly last night to describe Halladay’s pitching performance against Boston.
I couldn’t agree more. That said, why in God’s name was
Vernon playing so deep during
Manny’s at bat in the ninth
inning. There was absolutely
no indication throughout the
course of the game that anyone was going to hit a ball 380′+ to straight away
centre field.That fly ball
should have been caught and
inning should have been over.
I would rather have Manny crush the ball into no-mans
land out in centre field and
watch a 250lb behemouth with
a bum knee – who runs even
“less well” – give an all out
effort in rumbling around the bases trying to score. Not loose the game on nubbers
and bobbles. I guarantee Roy
Halladay would agree.
And who’s calling for a
change up on a 3-0 count to Ortiz?
Roy Halladay should go up to
Vernon and say “come on” or
“let’s go”…this is the
winning attitude that a team with goals like winning the
world series should have?
Maybe you should go into the
locker room and say those
words to Vernon. Maybe he’ll
thank you for not getting in his grill by giving you one
of his dad’s paintings.
I think Vernon needs to look
himself in the mirror and see what kind of baller he is
I believe he is a good player, but I think Vernon thinks he’s a great player.
Far from it.
MW: You’re really going to have to work on your margins if you want me to keep posting your comments. It’ snot my place to say those things to Wells, very obviously, and it wouldn’t mean a thing to him coming from me. The count was never 3-0 to Ortiz, and it’s ludicrous to suggest that you shouldn’t play one of the game’s best power hitters deep with two out and the winning run on first, regardless of how well your pitcher is pitching.
- roccoMike,
Once again we fall short and squander yet another impeccable Halladay performance…..I am at a loss for words!!!
2 Suggestions:
1) We can either clone 7 more Scott Rolen’s/ 4 Roy Halladay’s
or
2) Get Barry Bonds
I suggest the latter (only because it’s more realistic)!!!
MW: I might like to try the cloning, but it’d take a lot longer.
- BernardRe: Jed Lowrie. Apparently Pedroia wrenched his shoulder pretty badly on the Wells catch, badly enough that Francona was keeping Lowrie available to play second base in extra innings.
Not that you needed me to tell you that, since it’s on the wire which you’ll have read by now. But redundancy never hurt anyone (except Reed Johnson).
MW: OK, fine. And with Drew already out and Ellsbury limping, there was no one else except a pitcher, and you don’t want to do that in case you need the DH in extra innings.
- PRQHey Mike
Geez Louise, that was incredibly tough and painfull. I had the intent of logging on today stressing what an incredibly good point you made yesterday regarding the starting of Johnny Mac at SS on days that Doc pitches. That point seemed even more rational in the Sixth when Eck had about 10 assists!! The writer who insisted that scoring runs is just as important as stopping them, at least I thought made no good points. You’d expect our lineup to score 2 runs (at minimum) without Eck in the lineup (He’s not exactly another Rollins). Again, like I said, you’d expect. If not for a great play by Pedroia we do just that (at least one run anyway….but enough to win, or tie). On that note, great point. Offence has “got to” break out at some point…just hope its not too late.
Just a couple of questions. What are your thoughts on Stewart? With a struggling offence, stats asside, maybe a little good Canadian Fire in the Line-up would have helped last night (Stairs). How much longer are the Jays going to give this guy?
Question 2 – What do you suppose the record is for most CG losses in a row….Check that, is 8 2/3 innings considered a complete game if it is infact a ‘complete game’ as was the case last night?
And….what’s your stats source. Do you guys have an industry only source, or are you just using the good old fashion MLB.com
Thanks Mike, and don’t worry, Jays talk is alive and well…..just think we’ll be happiest when they finally do win.
MW: Stewart had been outhitting Stairs against lefties by a ton this season, and lifetime as well, so I don’t think having Stairs in there would have made much difference.
- Chris MarinoniI found on a blog called “Vick’s Dogs” (REALLY bad taste, by the way) that the post-1957 record for consecutive complete games with a loss is seven, belonging to Mickey Lolich of the 1975 Detroit Tigers. I’m always happy to let others do research for me.
I have a ton of stats sources, outlined in an answer to a comment on the previous post, I think.
There are four basic verbs that desribe the fundamental aspects of the game of Baseball:
THROW the ball
CATCH the ball
HIT the ball
RUN
To go out on a limb and promise that the Jays will hit…well Wilnerdamus,
you are a seer of many great things.
Of course the Jays will hit.
Hitting makes up 25% of the
basic aspects of Baseball. That is of course you’ve wieghted the four fundamental
evenly.
The phones at night are busy.
I have yet been able to get
through.
Sharing my thoughts via this
format will do just fine.
MW: Once you clean up your margins, it will. Are you commenting on via text message or something?
- roccoI say we release Halladay. He’s killing us!
Doesn’t anybody know that win/loss record defines a pitcher???
MW: I’ll tell you, if he falls to 2-6, they should move him for anything they can get.
- Andrew SorlieMike, I’ve really been watching Vernon Wells very closely the past couple of years, when he’s on the field making defensive plays, or when he’s up to the plate batting. I’ve noticed many times during this period, from his facial expression, from his demeanour, or his mannerism, that he’s not a very intense hitter and he rarely delivers in the clutch. Last night was a great example. Had Vernon played during the 93 and 92, I don’t think the Jays would win the series because he doesn’t deliver in the clutch, unlike Alomar, Sprague, or Carter to name a few. Maybe JP should try to package Vernon with another starter and go for a blockbuster to shake up the team ala McGriff/Fernandez for Carter/Alomar.
MW: Last year, in Wells’ worst season, he hit .278/.360/.431 with runners in scoring position, which was a 33-point increase in batting average and an 85-point increase in OPS over his total numbers. The year before, his batting average was one point lower (.302) but his OPS was 38 points higher (.937 to .899) with RISP.
- JeremyOver his post-season career, Pat Borders’ OPS was .753, which would be 39 points lower than Vernon’s OPS with RISP in the worst season of his career.
Not much to say except it’s a shame that Doc pitched so well and gets the loss, not really fair. Not gonna blame Wells but I know damn well he’s either slowing down a little or not playing as agressive in the field, afraid of getting hurt maybe? However I’m starting to agree with you on Eck, he doesn’t seem to add enough to the team to warrant getting so much playing time ahead of Johnny Mac. Was Eck just brought in so that JP could say there was a world series MVP on the team or what?
MW: I can’t explain why Vernon looks different in the field this year. At 29, it’s tough to imagine to he’s on the wrong side of his career. J.P. had a World Series MVP on the team already when he brought in Eckstein, so I don’t think that was it.
- NickYou say Halladay deserved to finish it, and that it was the right choice to keep him in the game. I’m not so sure about that.
Lester was arguably more untouchable than Doc, and yet he was pulled in the 9th (after throwing only 97 pitches). I don’t see Francona taking heat for that decision.
Why Halladay Should Have Been Pulled:
1. The heart of the order was coming up in the 9th. Clearly, Halladay was pitching an amazing game. But the 100th pitch isn’t going to have the same bite as the 30th pitch. A little fatigue + Boston’s best hitters who have had 3 previous at bats to make adjustments = danger
2. Too much risk for not enough reward. The best outcome, or reward, for Halladay at that point in the game was simply a no decision. The worst outcome, after pitching such a gem, would be to take a loss. That had to be deflating to Doc (and probably Wells, too). With no win on the line, he should have been pulled.
3. In a tie situation, the goal is to make sure you get to extra innings. You can’t worry about saving arms for the 16th before you are assured of even making it to the 10th. You need to give yourselves that best shot at doing that. Especially against the top division rival. Situations like these are why BJ Ryan is on the team. He’s supposed to be Toronto’s shutdown guy. Given that he can only be used for one inning, would you want that inning to be the 9th, or some hypotheical extra inning that you have your fingers crossed about reaching?
MW: Jon Lester is not, nor will he ever be, Roy Halladay. You can’t compare how the two are handled. We’re going to have to agree to disagree, because I don’t think there was any question that Halladay should have come back.
- Kips ThompsonTo your points: 1. The top of the order was coming up, not the heart, and over the first eight innings, the top four hitters in the Boston order were 0-for-12, having hit one ball out of the infield. 2. There’s very little chance that the opportunity to get a win has an effect on how Halladay throws, but it’s incorrect to say that there was no option but a no-decision for Halladay. If he gets out of the ninth and the Jays score in the 10th, he gets the win (assuming the bullpen holds it). 3. Obviously you can’t worry about saving pitchers for the 16th, that was sarcasm, a shot at those who ripped John Gibbons for having to go to A.J. Burnett in the 14th inning of that game against Texas.
I was just looking for favourite solo Lennon album but since you brought it up what is your favourite Beatles’ album? I’ll go with Abbey Road but it changes daily as most of them are mind blowingly good.
My favourite solo McCartney album is Ram BTW although I really like McCartney (1st album). Band on the Run is slightly overrated.
MW: Too many to consider, and not enough time to give the question the reflection it deserves.
- Chris JonesYou wouldn’t trade 1 year of Wells for 1 year of Dunn?
I’d at least think about it, it gets you out of lets say a 100 million dollar commitment and lets you go out and sign Furcal, or the free agent of your choice, to a nice 5 year deal.
Justin Jackson is in Lansing but you can’t be expecting him to even make it to the big league’s let alone have an impact.
MW: I would trade one year of Wells for one year of Dunn.
- PeeWeeHey Mike,
One thing I have always noticed with Vernon is that he has NO Heart.. win or lose it does not seem to bother him!
MW: And I’m sure that opinion is derived from the many conversations you’ve had with Vernon both after wins and after losses. No rational person would come to that sort of a conclusion just from a look on someone’s face or something.
- DaveMike, this stretch is not all Gibby’s fault but it’s getting to the point where something has to be done and firing the manager is something that sometimes sparks teams to go on a winning streak.
Personally I think there are a couple things that Gibby could do better. The line-up needs to be revamped with Eck hitting 9th. Not substituting McDonald for defence is a huge negative on him. The game where he let A.J come out for the eighth was another blunder.
I think it’s time for a change in the clubhouse culture.
MW: Clubhouse culture was changed the minute Scott Rolen walked in the door, and they’re 1-4 since. Whoever the next manager is, if Gibby goes, won’t hit Eckstein ninth because he’s “David Eckstein”, and I had no issue with Burnett coming out for the 8th inning of that game.
- Chris JonesMike,
Its good to know the great start by The Jays this April will help them in the stretch run in September. You know a little about music. You’ve heard of the band called BLIND FAITH.
MW: Hear what you want to hear, Bruno.
- brunoMike,
Tough loss but I think Jon Lester at least deserves some credit for silencing the Jays bats. Yes they are not hitting but Lester was hitting his spots and matched Halladay pitch for pitch.
I’ve also developed a huge man-crush on Scott Rolen. I love the way he plays the game. You rarely see an elite player choke up on the bat with two strikes like Rolen did in the ninth last night against Paplebon. He does this and then drives a Paplebon fastball into the gap in left centre.
Do you think Gary Denbo’s job is on the line if the bats don’t wake up in the next month or so. I see Gibby losing his job first if the team doesn’t turn around in the next week but Denbo may go as well. That being said, a hitting coach can only do so much and they already replaced Brantley after last season.
MW: This team tends to go through hitting coaches with semi-regularity. It’s Gibbons’ 4th full season and Denbo is his 3rd hitting coach. At some point in time that revolving door has to stop spinning, because it’s not the coaches’ fault.
- DerekI totally agree Mike. What a disappointing way to lose.
I’m not sure whether this team is conditioned to lose or if it just doesn’t know how to win.
I find it funny that Playboy Magazine picked this team to win the AL Wild Card at the beginning of the season. Nothing from this current roster of players tells me they expect to win.
Good teams expect to win. On a daily basis. Great teams beat the teams they’re supposed to, and steal a couple of games that they’re not supposed to.
I hope they can turn it around. Ted has too much money into a 5th place divisional team.
MW: I don’t think it has anything to do with conditioning or ability, they’re just losing right now.
- Dale MatchettMike,
Is it possible there is an issue with advanced scounting? This may just be me pulling at straws and talking about something of which I know very little but it does seem like the hitters are clueless against any pitcher that hasn’t been in the league at least a couple of years. If this isn’t the case then I am just calling the whole thing an MLB conspiracy created to simply p*** me off. This team just creates so much rage in me.
MW: I admire the passion. I don’t think there’s an issue with advance scouting, they have good baseball people going out and watching teams ahead of time.
- WeezLet me set some people straight on the whole Adam Dunn thing. I watch him play every single day and he is the second worst defensive outfielder I have ever seen (Kevin Reimer is the worst).
Face it Mike, we all love the Blue Jays, but this team is on a fast track to nowhere. If they get swept in Boston Gibby will not have a job when they return to Toronto. I think the handling of the whole Frank Thomas affair has had a negative impact on the players. What I don’t understand is why Thomas was let go before he ever played a single game with Scott Rolen. The club’s off-season projected lineup never played a single game together before Thomas had his back stabbed, his throat slit and then got tossed overboard.
Yep, John Lennon did say “it can’t get worse than this”. He also sang songs about “Nowhere men” and “Revoloution”.
Here’s to Gillick and Gaston running the ship again next year.
MW: Yeah, let’s go back 15 years! Well, actually, going back 15 years would be a good thing, but I think that bringing back Gillick and Gaston would be a recipe for disaster, as much respect as I have for them both. They’ll never be able to live up to who they were. Lennon actually said, “it can’t get much worse.”
- Jim BranscomeAnd yeah, I can’t argue with you. Dunn is an awful defender. He’s also a tremendous hitter.
Kudos to Karim for having the best line lately:
“However, it seems that there is something amiss with the Jays bats.”
That cracked me up. Great understatement.
In regards to Wells and his attitude: it is no different from when he’s been a top player. My friend and I love laughing while watching him in the field. We joke that he needs to take Valium to calm down as he makes a spectacular catch. He often makes crazy impossible plays look routine. I suspect he’s either injured or just in a fielding slump. I’d still rather have him in CF than most others in MLB.
- michaelWait a second, you think Botts is an upgrade over Stewart. Werent you the guy that suggested they sign Stewart and release Johnson. What would be the use of Stewart if they signed Botts? You think Stewart and the hitting will turn around don’t you? Secondly, what is more likely. Ricciardi and Gibbons both being fired in a month or two if the team is not hitting or Ricciardi making a major trade?
MW: I think Botts is a major improvement over Johnson, too. I figured that went without saying. I do think Stewart and the rest of them will turn it around, but I’d prefer to have someone who, at his best, could be both a better on-base guy and a better power guy, and Botts could be that. For the 23rd spot on the roster or so, it’s worth the gamble. I don’t think Ricciardi gets fired at all. The President of the team loves him.
- aviMike, you stated above that Stewart is a better choice than Stairs to start as DH a
against lefties. My question, if those are your DH choices vs a lefty, hasn’t something gone horribly wrong for a team “built to win”??
MW: They could be trying out Buck Coats.
- sammy jalalzaiHey Mike,
I find it funny that on all the blog sites V.W. has become public enemy #1. I think he needs to step it up but to say he’s a “choker” or a “loser” is ludicrous. People saying they should trade him or, heaven help us, release him is even worse.
I’m sure all the Wells haters would have been the first to berate J.P. if he hadn’t signed him.
The whole universe is out of whack at this stage of the season.
MW: Of that there is little doubt.
- CameronFirst let me preface this question by saying that in no way am I a Vernon basher. I like the guy and think he’s a good player. That said, I noticed above that you said you “wouldn’t trade seven years of Wells for one of Dunn.” Are you kidding me, Mike?
I don’t think there is a team in the league that would trade Vernon Wells for a bag of baseballs right now, let alone a slugger like Adam Dunn. Wells’ contract isn’t looking Zito-like by any means, but it is approaching one of the worst 10 in the league. It pains me to say this, but if a GM were willing to take Vernon off of our hands for nothing, I think the salary relief alone would be worth it. That would free up over 100 million for us in the future.
MW: Wow. Remind me to never get hurt and then have a bad two weeks.
- Matt SWhile it makes no sense in the traditional baseball school of thought – why not flip Wells and Rios in the batting order and have Wells back at the top of the order where he hit so well last year?
MW: Because Vernon Wells is not a guy who gets on base with anywhere near the regularity required in a lead-off man. Because it worked for two weeks doesn’t mean it was a good idea. Remember, in the overall as a leadoff man last year, Wells hit .228/.321/.434, which is pretty craptacular.
- MCHey Mike,
One of your reasons for firing a manager was “when a much, much better manager is available.”
Well, what makes one manager better than the next? Managing a baseball team comes down to making decisions that all managers make in the exact same way. As long as you have managers who understand the game, the choices made by different managers do not differ at all. In fact, I’m sure that one could create a series of flow charts for different situations, and then give them to any idiot who could use them to manage a baseball game.
So, again, baseball decisions are made in the same way by all managers. Then, what makes one manager better than the next?
MW: I don’t believe that everyone manages the same way. I believe that everyone should manage relatively close to the same way, but there’s room for personality and improvisation when running the bench at times.
- JasonMike, I work in a hospital…so I might be able to pull a few strings so we can clone Halladay & Rolen. Let me know if you’re game!!!
MW: Fine by me, but I ain’t getting the cell samples.
- BernardQuote from earlier blogger – “Alan Ashby said it best on Primetime that the ‘Jays seem to be digging their hole with spoons’ which means that they really haven’t lost any ground, but C’MON.
ashby actually went on to say that while the Jays may have been a little lucky in not losing too much ground, it obviously would not last.
Hey Mike, not that I think that your a homer or anything but what was the deal with you and that caller last night who suggested that we would need to definately go to our bullpen as Burnett was getting the start Thursday. I honestly don’t think anyone can fault his comment (Although he did not come accross as convincing). And seriously, your argument that he has a better record than Doc. Come on Mike, Doc has 4 CG’s in a row three of them losses. There cannot be any evidence stronger than this to support the insignificance of Docs record as it pertains to him. Inferences are made based on empiracle stats all of the time. If someone is a 300 hitter over a prolonged period of time, and age is not a slowing factor, then I expect him to get 3 hits for every 10 at bats. This caller just pointed out that AJ is a career .500 pitcher over a prolonged period of time (He’s is not a developing pitcher anymore). Based on that data we expect him to lose every other game. He won the last one….which means….well ya know. And yes I am clearly aware that statistics only allow us the maximum or minimum amounts to being right or wrong and there is a possibility that AJ pitches a no-no on Thursday….but if I’m a betting man…have to agree with the caller.
You said that AJ would command 80 over 7 next year and opt out. I am of the firm belief that we let him go and start with a ‘one year’ older Doc, Dusty, Marcum, Litsch roatation. Spend the money elsewhere. What do you think?
Thanks again Mike
MW: I said A.J. would command 80 over 5 next year, and I’m sure they’ll let him go. But you’re saying that win-loss record is insignificant when discussing Roy Halladay, but with Burnett it means that he’ll lose every other game?
- Christopher MarinoniHey Mike,
I’m really concerned over Roy Halladay and his future with this club. If we continue to have another low season do you think he might want to go somewhere else where his talents are more useful?. We all know that he’s the best pitcher in baseball so surely he would want some kind of success and reward in his career.
I don’t think the Jays will ever be strong enough to support the guy….
Your thoughts?
WO!
MW: I think you’re wrong.
- Warren OwenHey Mike
First, on Sunday you mentioned research that has been done on batting order and how it has been found to be insignificant. I was wondering if you know where I can find that, sounds interesting.
Second, I can understand the frustration people have with the Frank Thomas situation. Although I’m more of a sceptic of JP than an optimist, Jays fans should be grateful about the release, not spiteful. Not paying his 10$ mil option for 2009 frees up salary and under JP’s regime, the philosophy is mo money, no mo problems right? Although there is all this drama about his relationships with management and the team and his notorious slow starts, the move made economically sense no? His ankle, the price tag and his age were a greater concern to me than any of these other factors that I continue to hear about. I understand his productivity frustrated many fans and that some fans’ expectations about the team haven’t been met (although their offence has MUCH to be desired, Jays fans should enjoy the success and excitement of our pitching staff while they last) I’m getting sick of hearing about how the decision to let Frank go was not in the team’s best interests, aren’t you? (unfortunately, the same can’t be said about if the rumours about why Lind wasn’t called up are true and the continued stance against pursuing Bonds)
Lastly, I was just wondering any must-read baseball books that I should add to my list for the summer. I’ve got Feeding the Monster, Between the Numbers, May the Best Team Win and Growing the Game to name a few….
MW: Wow, where do you find the time to do all that pleasure reading? I’ll be lucky to get through one book all season.
- Ryan SI agree the the team will come around and start hitting better than they are right now. But as you have said, right now they are on pace to be one of the worst hitting teams of all time. So how much can we really expect them to improve? “Hey, they’re not historically, all-time bad! Only the worst hitting team of the past decade! Such improvement!” I’m being facetious, of course. But JP himself was quoted as saying he would be happy with the Jays finishing 5th, 6th, or 7th in runs by the end of the year. When Toronto is competing against the power of Boston and New York, isn’t that just another way of saying he’d be happy with finishing in 3rd place in the standings again?
MW: No, because the Jays’ pitching is WAY better than the Yankees’ and Red Sox’, so they shouldn’t need to score as many runs to get as many wins.
- gunglerHi Mike,
I’m not going to suggest that Stairs should DH against lefties, and I do believe that Lind should play every day in LF. However, Stewart is NOT the answer as the right-handed hitting side of the DH platoon. Stewart has had reverse splits since 2003, and he hasn’t had an OPS over .700 against LHP since 2004! This is absolutely not a guy that should be your designated hitter against left-handers.
The Jays aren’t going to sign Bonds. So why not use Scutaro as the 4th outfielder, release Stewart (who doesn’t have a place on this team), and sign a lefty killing platoon partner for Stairs? Craig Wilson doesn’t have a job because he can’t hit righties, but he has a career .917 OPS against lefties and would be a perfect platoon partner for Stairs and pinch-hitter against LHP, and he’d come dirt cheap.
What do you think?
MW: I think Wilson is kinda done, but I’d be happy to bring in a lefty-masher to replace Stewart, especially now that he isn’t here to play the outfield any more.
- TimMike, I just had an idea. What would you think about putting Eckstein at DH and Mac at SS against LHP? I know Eckstein has no pop for a DH but he’s better than Barajas and would give us a competent leadoff hitter still. Mac improves the defense.
vs LHP
1. DH- Eckstein
2. LF- Stewart
3. RF- Rios
4. CF- Wells
5. 3B- Rolen
6. 2B- Hill
7. 1B- Overbay (L)
8. C- Zaun (S)
9. SS- McDonald
MW: If David Eckstein is ever a designated hitter, look for a puff of smoke from the broadcast booth – that’ll be me setting myself on fire.
- Matt SHey Mike,
Three thoughts/questions for you.
1) Don’t you think someone on the team should have called a players only meeting or something like that by now. And i know that if it was players only we might not of heard about it, but usually those things leak out.
2) Your guess on who and when someone signs Bonds.
3) You should be on McCowen’s show more. I swear he says things about baseball just to annoy people and it would be good to have you on there to debate with him. He usually reminds me of the people that call into your show.
Thanks, love the blog.
MW: Players-only meetings can help, can hurt, can have no effect. Often they’re just for show. I’m not sure Bonds ever signs. I’m as happy to go on McCown’s show, but if he’d rather have guys like Dan Shulman, Bob Elliott or Alan Ashby, I can’t quarrel with that. I was asked to go on the show for the roundtable this past Monday, but I said no because it was only my second day off in 2 1/2 months.
- benWilner after reading all of the comments and your response, one thing really sticks out for me. You clearly are not a great baseball mind if you can’t figure out why nobody pinch ran for Ortiz. Let’s review – Drew leaves game – moss in, ellsbury has a slight leg injury – probably don’t want him coming in on a cool rainy night. That means Francona is down to Kevin Cash, back up catcher, and Lowrie. As a manager ou probably don’t want to burn your back up catcher in case of extra innnings, so that means Francona really only had Lowrie. If the game goes into extras and it seems it would have been a drawn out affair because nobody was hitting (yes the pitchers were great, but it just seemed like one of those nights)Francona then has only lowrie to use. So maybe pay attention a little more if you want to be looked upon as an EXPERT.
MW: You can’t manage a game for the JUSTINCASE it goes 14 innings. Had I known that Pedroia separated his shoulder on the diving play to rob Wells, I’d have realized why Francona didn’t use him. But had Pedroia been fine, I still think Lowrie should have been in there.
- BobbyMike – this is hypothetical so please don’t use that as a reason not to answer.
If Barry Bonds was in the Jays lineup last night, do you beleive the Jays would have been blanked by John Lester after 8 innings ?
If the Jays hitting woes continue for the next say, 5 games, how can JP’s bosses not consider allowing him to pick up the phone ?
To me that’s a better “shake up” than firing Gibby or JP.
MW: There’s no way to know whether the Jays would have scored if Bonds had played. When you get one hit against a guy in 8 innings, it’s tough to imagine how much difference one guy could have made. Bonds could have walked three times and been stranded.
- Ian CPost #15: “This is not the worst collection of hitters ever assembled in the history of major-league baseball, despite how they have looked for the last two weeks.”
Blue Jays runs/game the last 2 weeks: 4.0
Season runs/game: 4.26, currently better than 6 others teams in MLB.
We have to go alllll the way back to 2003(2003!!! Freaking ages ago!) to find a team that scored less than 4.0 runs/game, when the Tigers scored 3.65.
You’ve been playing the worst offense in the history of baseball card a little overzealously. Your “If this the Blue Jays continue to play like this they’re going to win 55 games” was especially a little much. Seems like the kind of completely false exaggeration you yourself like to call people out on.
Post #29
Not a big Tigers fan?
Post #30
Not sure how “concrete” you consider this, but I would say the observation of Alex Rios not running hard out of the box on every play is about as factual of an observation as one can make. This fact alone gives validation to every single person who says that leadership or managerial motivation can have an impact on a ball game. I don’t know Alex Rios, and I don’t know what motivates him, but I can guarantee you that he has the physical capability to run hard, and I’m also pretty sure there is some form of motivation or incentive that could be provided that would make him do so. Until we see Rios run hard out of the box every time he makes contact I’m not sure how much of an argument anyone has that extra influence or “intangibles” don’t have the ability to make a direct impact on a ball game. I understand your “winning/losing” argument about leaders and such, but I’m not saying that all these winning clubs have great leaders, nor am I saying the Jays don’t. Talent and ability are the number one factors when it comes to results, but “intangibles” can have an impact. You like to always go back to the “if the team were winning argument”, but that’s really besides the point. When someone attacks the Blue Jays leadership, if you’re going to completely disagree with the statement, you have to tell them exactly why the Jays DO have leadership and how there is not a single effort issue on the team that can be solved with more “leadership”. There isn’t a single team in baseball that can say every player gives 100% on every play, but as fans, are we not allowed to expect people to hustle and criticize them if they don’t?
Post #51
Not the fans money? Ha, good one Mike. Because I’m sure if Ted Rogers didn’t have a single cent of support for the Jays he’d continue to shell out over $75M on salaries. I’ve always hated that argument, or phrase, or saying, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Most of us are going to pay out that money regardless of what the team does, but to dismiss people for even suggesting that we should have a say of how that money is spent? Would you still dismiss people who complained if Ted Rogers decided to wipe his a** with millions of dollars on the middle of the field? At the moment, it wouldn’t be “our” money, but I’m pretty sure we’d have the right to be p****d.
MW: Sorry, I zoned out in the middle of that incredibly long comment. I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest that if the Jays continue playing like they have been for the last two weeks (3-10, .144 with RISP) that they’ll be historically awful. You’re absolutely allowed to expect hustle and criticize when it’s not there, but criticize the one who’s not hustling – he’s a grown-up.
- Dan WI was trying hard to see on the replays if Vernon Wells took a first step back again like he has on virtually every ball hit to centre this year but I was unable to tell from the camera angle. Maybe he needs a trip to the eye doctor. Would the players go through a vision test as part of spring training?
Also I think you should start tracking the hits that Eckstein gives up that are routine plays for Johnny Mac. It seems to be about 1 per game but I could be exagerating. Its definitely better than 1 every 2 games though. Which is more than enough to justify Mcdonald as the every day shortstop.
MW: I don’t know if it’s better than one every two games. I try to write it down every time I see it happen, though.
- MattI think this should shut people up about how your win/loss record defines a pitcher. Did Roy Halladay lose that game because he was bad or his offense didn’t help him out? Also what were your general thoughts when Roy Halladay signed the 3 year deal extention to stay here. How underpaid do you think Roy Halladay is? Cause lesser pitchers like Barry Zito are making way more then him.
MW: Halladay is the best bargain of any post-arb pitcher in baseball.
- andrewWith all due respect, the replay shows that Wells was not running full speed into first base. Are you trying to say that he was so tired out that he needed a breather already? I guess this is one symptom of the baserunning disease: since almost nobody runs out grounders in the Majors, people tend ot think it takes longer to get to first base than it actually does.
In fact, many (not all) of the great defensive plays made by infielders wouldn’t get the hitter out if the hitter actually ran at full speed. Furthermore, a large percentage of singles would be doubles. I could go on…
MW: I don’t think a large percentage of singles would be doubles if more people ran hard. Vernon was not running full speed into first base, because he had done what 100% of big-leaguers do once a throw is on its way – he geared down. It sucks, and because everybody does it doesn’t make it right, but everybody does it. There was still no way Vernon beats that play.
- ShmuelOkay, maybe he was running full speed. But I maintain everything else I said about baserunning in general.
- ShmuelI’m going to refuse to buy an iPhone unless Ted sends word from on high that Barry shall be a Blue Jay.
On a more serious note, I’ve concluded that since I can’t find an explanation for why this team can’t hit lefties and can’t hit with runners in scoring position (in spite of having presumably capable personnel), the Jays’ problem is their uniform. The angry bird just doesn’t do it for me – it doesn’t fit the team’s personality, and angry-ish nicknames and logos never work in baseball. Look at what happened in Tampa Bay when they dropped the “Devil”. If they wore those handsome powder blues all the time, complete with that happy bird logo, then everything would turn around. I’m sure of it.
MW: That’s exactly the problem! I can’t believe no one has mentioned that yet. Seriously – I can’t believe no one has mentioned that yet.
- darrenMike, Love the blog and your show but I have to say that I think you maybe lay it on a bit thick when it comes to David Eckstein. I agree with you that he’s no John McDonald in the field but that’s because McDonald is arguably THE best defensive shortstop in the game which makes it pretty much impossible to find anyone as good or better than him.
Your response after last night’s game was another classic example of this. You made a special point last night to mention that fans shouldn’t be focusing on Vernon’s play in the bottom of the ninth as the reason for the game being lost because it’s not just about one play. That was a fair point. However, last week when Eckstein bobbled the double play that resulted in the tying (not winning) run scoring you had no problem devoting time on JaysTalk and your blog to talk about just how critical that mistake was.
I also found it strange that you would make mention of the imaginary no-hitter Eckstein ruined last night because of a play you’re convinced McDonald would have made. Sure it’s likely that McDonald would have made that play but it’s not a foregone conclusion since the ghost of John McDonald wasn’t on the field at the time. Plus, I thought you liked to deal in facts and not supposition? I guess my point is that I think we can all agree about where Eckstein’s defensive skills rate compared to McDonald but nobody was expecting otherwise and piling it on at every last opportunity (both real and imaginary) is getting a bit tiresome.
MW: I apologize for becoming tiresome, but it has long since become equally tiresome for me to watch a team that has one of the best defensive weapons in the game steadfastly refuse to use said weapon. I think the Eckstein play in the KC game was more galling, but you’re right about that. I dwelled on it a lot longer than I dwelled on the Vernon bobble. Probably had something to do with the fact that McDonald was on the bench.
- HeatherMike,
I haven’t been thrilled by the lineup all year, but this latest move by Gibbons to slot Eckstein at #2 doesn’t make much sense to me. Why would you put one of your lesser hitters in a position to get 5 PA per game? He also hits a ton of ground balls, and although he has enough speed to occasionally avoid the DP, getting a fielder’s choice would often decrease the speed at first with Rios out.
What would be the logic behind not putting a line drive hitter with a good OBP like Overbay at #2 (I know he didn’t do well there last year, but he had a bad year overall) and putting Eckstein at #8 or #9? That would give Rios more chances to drive in runs as well, later in the game.
MW: I agree, Eckstein shouldn’t be hitting higher than 9th. But I have a problem with a contradiction you seem to have made. If Eckstein is one of your lesser hitters, how does having him at the bottom at the line-up give Rios more chances to drive in runs later in the game?
- XiaoNever said that W-L records for Halliday are insignificant. Was simply an inference based on expected values and expectations. These expectations are based on the empirable data, and there strength is based on a good enough sample size. Halliday has proven over a long period of time to be an exceptionally above .500 pitcher. Burnett has proven to be a .500 pitcher. Based on that I have my idea of what to expect. Halliday’s record 2-4 is not insignificant. It just doesn’t tell us the reality. Anyone who has watched him pitched knows that he has pitched great. I guess a better word would be that his record is not indicative of his performance. I think at this point everyone knows what to expect from Burnett. Here’s hoping that the trend changes. Cheers Mike
MW: It really is amazing how much personality, and not ability and performance, has dictated expectations with those two pitchers.
- Christopher MarinoniHi Mike,
Well the Jays are o for 5 innings at 8:20 PM. Do you know how to pray? I’m sure looking forward to what JP’s spin will be tonight. Actually he is my next favorite GM, behind only PAT GILLICK (the real MVP of 1992 and 1993,) not Gaston or Carter. BTW, by far the JAYS greatest Manager was the guy that is still down in Atlanta. I don’t understand how you can call(Gaston) him the Jays greatest all time Jays MGR? Pat Gillick built a all-star team, and wanted to get rid of Gaston, but Mr. BEESTON said no, so PAT said “I’m out of here” THIS IN MY OPINION IS THE JAYS BIGGEST ALL TIME MISTAKE. JP did put a good team on the field, but like you said, we really don’t know what is going on in the dug out. What else? Gibbons is too nice. I couldn’t believe that caller two weeks ago that called him a mean sh-
- disturber etc. (I’m paraphasing of course.) But a MGR change for MAY NEEDS to happen “at least” to see, was MR Gibbons just too nice??? Jays now are 0 for 6 innings tonight. Sorry about the play by play, but if they were winning—– BTW, can you do play by play better than the guys presently doing it? (ON TV) Why is Rogers so cheap when it comes to Blue Jays TV broadcasting? These guys kinda represent the Blue Jays. You can read the rest of this if you buy my book, “the 2008 Blue Jays
Miracle comeback” McGovern just retired the potent Red Sox line up again. Wells seems to want to dig his front knee in the dirt. HEY!!!
Now I know what is wrong with the Jays hitters, they can’t take the juice anymore, so what they did (batters) before this year is irrellevant. Many times in my life people have called me Sherlocke Holmes, among other things.
MW: I’ll just call you wordy. Also, that’s the first time I have heard that Gillick resigned over not being able to fire Cito less than a year after winning two straight World Series.
- Larry MurrDo you think JP Ricciardi deserves to shoulder the blame for his team if let’s say, the blue jays are in the same position by the all star break?
MW: Yup.
- andrewAgreed, it sucks. Just trying to take some of the heat off Rios, since almost everyone does it. But just to clarify, I didn’t say most singles would be doubles, just many of them. You know, those balls sort of hit in the gap but not really, or plays when the outfielder plays the ball as if he has all day, and even plays where a guy practically walks because he thinks he has a homer and ends up with a single off the wall instead of a stand up triple or an inside the park homer.
MW: That last one is pretty rare, only Manny really does that on a regular basis.
- ShmuelMr. Wilner, Sir.
If you have any suggestions on how to correct my apparent
margin problem, I would be more than happy to read them.
Unfortunately, all I do is
write the text in the box provided at the bottom of the
page. As the I get closer to
the right margin, my cursor
somehow seems to auto-
matically continue onto the
next line.(I had to break up
automatically because the whole word would have been pushed onto the next line)
Suggesting that I not respond to your blog is a bad suggestion.
It is absolutely not ludicrous to suggest that Vernon shouldn’t be playing as deep as he was on Manny’s at bat in the ninth. When you have the “best pitcher in the A.L.”(your words) pitching his best game of the
season, then why pitch to him
at all if you’re worried he’s going to send a fly ball
deep into cetre field. Walk him. But that would be crazy. Putting on the winning run at second base to
avoid pitching to “one of the
best power hitters.”
I wouldn’t make that move. Especially the way Halladay
was pitching.
MW: I have no idea how to fix the margin problem, but it’s strange that you’re the only one affected. Anyone have any thoughts? And just because Roy Halladay is pitching doesn’t mean that Manny Ramirez is going to get into one. It is ludicrous to think that. I mean, confidence is nice, but reality often intrudes, and to say “we don’t need to defend against an extra-base hit because there’s no way a Hall of Famer is going to get one here” is just stupid.
- roccoMike,
I listend to Jays Talk tonight. If Gibbons goes the man responsible must go.
- brunoDo you know where that research you mentioned that has been done on batting order, finding it to be insignificant, can be found?
MW: I don’t remember, but I’ll bet somebody out there reading does. Chances are it was Baseball Prospectus.
- Ryan SInteresting jay’s talk tonight, (finally able to listen on the internet after a game; while living in BC by the way), JP seemed quite defensive and irrational at times. Not really open to any type of discussion on tactics, such as Mac in for 8th and 9th inning leads. I got a weird vibe from him during the show; I feel something is going to give soon.
I have a hard time hearing the morality talk from JP on Bonds when he has a record of lying to fans (See BJ Ryan).
Still don’t like Gibby’s managing lately despite the fact that the team simply won’t hit. Downs was clearly getting hit hard and had just sat out from an injury the day before. Why have a 7 man bullpen when you’re going to ride one guy so hard? I think Gibby is always fighting for his job and it has led to injuries with pitchers. Janssen was overused, AJ had some insanely high pitch counts last year, and now I think were seeing the results of over using Downs.
MW: I don’t think that’s the case with Downs. But did you want to see Accardo against Ortiz, or Camp or Frasor against Manny and Lowell? That was the choice there, unless you go to Ryan in the 9th, which wouldn’t have been altogether horrible, either, but would have left you with one of those other guys (or Carlson) for extras. I agree with you on J.P. and there’ll be more in tonight’s post soon – I got a weird vibe, too.
- clintI remember reading last year that the Jays had the highest percentage of outs recorded in play. Has that also extended into this year? If it has, that is really bad luck. The players still have to perform better regardless. Id say Gibbons is gone within 2-3 days if they keep performing like this. Someone has to take the blame for this gross under achieving.
- aviBJ Ryan had thrown 9 pitches since April 24th. David Ortiz had hit Scott Downs extremely well in 19 PA. The heart of the order was coming up. You have to go to BJ there for the same reason you went to him in the 8th vs KC, to make sure you get him an inning and have it high leverage at that. To hold him around and hope to get a save chance out of him is silly in my opinion. And even if you aren’t going to go to Ryan (a mistake), you don’t go to Downs there who is apparently a little injured and has had no success vs. Papi who is followed by 2 (grit your teeth) clutch RHB.
It’s obvious that these small managerial decisions would not weigh so heavily if the Jays offense was not absolute crap. But it is what it is, and minor mistakes like this and not subbing Eckstein in for defense have cost the Jays already 2 games in the last week, 2 games the Jays obviously cannot afford to be giving away.
Eventually something somewhere has to give. I wonder how much longer Gibbons has to fix this sinking ship.
- Arian argument called by any other name… would indeed infuriate Mike WIlner
I agree with you Mr. Wilner. I also find it strange that it’s just me that seems to have this margin problem. Oh well, just my luck. I hope you decide to focus in on the content of my responses rather than the defeciencies in its layout.
I didn’t say there’s no way Manny wouldn’t get into one here. That isn’t what I’m saying at all. Manny is a hall of famer and he can lay into one at any time. But it’s clear that you factor in Manny’s reputation and obvious awesome career offensive production stats into your rebuttle to my statement about the positioning of Vernon Wells during that at bat. Not to mention you think I have no idea what I’m talking about, and that you know more about Baseball than I do.(that last sentence is
mere speculation on my part) You’re entitled to your opinion. As am I.
That being said… Within the context of that game Manny did nothing against Roy Halladay in three previous at bats to suggest he would hit the ball remotely hard to straight away cente field. If he hits it into the gaps, well we all
know how far into the left field gap the green monster goes across and if Rios can make up the coverage in the right field gap, he has the strongest arm in the outfield to then relay the ball back in when he does track the ball down.
If you want me to add some history into the equation…eight extra base hits in 86 at bats. Manny has 8 extra base hits in 86 at bats against Halladay. Less than10% .266 avg .314 oba 443 slg% Not to good for a hall of famer. But of course those
numbers are against one of the best pitchers in the A.L. You see, there was no real reason Vernon needed to defend against the big extra base hit. Evidence clearly shows that Manny Ramirez’s chances of getting an extra base hit were less than 10%.
I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t defend against the big extra base. What I’m saying is you didn’t need to in this case. The numbers are there to support this argument. With regards to the use of the word “stupid” which you wrote as a descriptive word in your response to my response… that’s cool. I don’t take it personally.
A little trash talk never hurt anyone. I just hope you can take it as well as you can give it.
Be prepared for a long season
P.S. about the spelling mistake that a blogger pointed out…don’t blame the the small keyboard at the studio. I’m sure you
proof read all your stuff. You missed it. I don’t think your a bad speller. Nor does anyone else. Just fess up and move on.
MW: I fixed your margins this time, because that was an incredibly-long post and would have taken up way too much space. Please try to be much more brief in the future. I didn’t say you were stupid, but it remains stupid not to defend an extra-base hit with Manny Ramirez at the plate, regardless of who is pitching and what their history is. How many of the outs that Manny has made against Halladay were fly balls to the warning track? It would be insane to lose a game because you’re playing a great power hitter to not hit for power.
- roccoMARGIN HELP!!!
Not for you Mike
can anyone out there make
any suggestion on how I can
correct and obvious layout
problem.
Wilner gives me as much grief
about this margin issue as
he does about the content of
my responses.
I do agree with Wilner. It is
a little annoying to read. But I have no answers to solve this problem. I write
until the right margin ends
and forces me to the next line. Occasionally I enter
into the next line w/Enter.
Obviously not computer savvy.
Anyone? Bueller?
- roccoRocco, I try to view your uniquely margin’ed posts as poems. It gives them a nice beatnik type quality to them
- Kipps ThompsonI don’t think I’m contradicting myself because, even though Eckstein isn’t a great hitter, he tends to get on base more than the average hitter, and certainly more than the average #9 hitter.
MW: He doesn’t get on base much more than the average hitter (.351 career obp, average is about .335), and he has no power to speak of, so he’s not well suited to hit anywhere but ninth, in my mind.
- XiaoHi Mike: You have to be breathing a little easier after the shutout tonight. I know I am. Rios finally got ahold of one, and A.J.managed to get back-to-back wins. Does that mean that he will lose the next two? (.500pitcher). The TV guys never did explain to us what happened in the last of the ninth…looked like a called balk…Gibby was vexed/tossed.
I hope they bring that momentum back home. Nice to possibly put 2 wins together. April was the pits!! Before I forget…J.P. said that Johnny Mac couldn’t handle the fulltime job. Is Mac prone to injuries or what?
Stay well….Go Jays !!
MW: It was called a balk, and if I was Gibby I’d have flipped. McDonald isn’t prone to injuries, but he wore down quite a bit in late ’06 after he’d taken the full-time job from Russ Adams.
- Jack