2:05 AM Eastern
I’m not just talking about the brutal error by David Eckstein, but that’s a big part of it. The Blue Jays went and ruined the perfect story with that ugliness in the bottom of the 8th. Here’s Scott Rolen, finally making his Jays’ debut, and we’re all being very careful to say that he’s not here to be the saviour of the struggling offense. Give him time, he’s not the cavalry, can’t do it himself. Then he does.
Rolen did everything his new teammates have had so much trouble doing over the last little while: He got a hit with runners in scoring position. A two-out hit with runners in scoring position! An extra-base hit with two out and runners in scoring position!!! And his ringing 8th-inning double into the left-centre gap broke a 2-2 tie, giving the Jays a 4-2 lead. To go with the HUGE hit by Rolen (did I mention it was his Jays’ debut?), Lyle Overbay finally got off the schneid with his first home run of the season, A.J. Burnett was brilliant through seven innings and Rod Barajas picked the go-ahead run off third base in the bottom of the 7th with some sweet sleight-of-hand.
All the ingredients were there, and all the Jays had to do was finish. Burnett went back out to start the 8th, got into trouble, and here came Scott Downs to bail him out. And bail him out he did - Snakeface got a routine double-play grounder from the first hitter he faced. All he had to do was turn it, and the Jays were in the dugout with a 1-run lead heading into the 9th.
And turn it he did. Downs made a perfect throw to second, where David Eckstein came across the bag…………….and dropped the ball. Everyone was safe, the tying run scored, the air was let out of the Jays’ proverbial tires, and the floodgates opened. The Royals, who hadn’t scored more than six runs in a game all season, wound up scoring six runs in the INNING, and that was that. Five straight losses, eight in ten, and hey, since they lost, let’s point out the Jays were 1-for-7 with runners in scoring position and are now 10 for their last 86 (.116/.136/128).
That was inexcusable #1, Eckstein dropping that ball. That ball has to be caught. I catch that ball. 99,999 times out of 100,000, Eckstein catches that ball. The one time he didn’t was an incredibly crucial moment for his new team. I know the second-base ump cut between him and Snakeface as Downs was getting ready to throw that ball, but it doesn’t matter. Catch the damn ball.
Inexcusable #2 (there are three, by the way) was the fact that Eckstein was even in the game at that point. Up by two, six outs to go, the right choice is to put the best defensive shortstop in the game IN THE GAME. There is no debate on this issue. Sadly, the Blue Jays haven’t caught on to this yet. John Gibbons said in Spring Training that David Eckstein was his shortstop, which meant that David Eckstein was his shortstop from start to finish, that he wouldn’t be using John McDonald (the aforementioned best defensive shortstop in the game, in case you were wondering) for late-inning defense. And so far, he hasn’t. Tonight, it might well have cost him the game.
I don’t know David Eckstein well, but from the couple of months that I’ve been around him, the limited contact I had with him early in his career, and from talking to people who know him better than I do, I have come to the conclusion that David Eckstein is an outstanding human being. He also seems to be pretty bright. This is a good thing, you can’t have too many of those types of people around. He’s also just an OK defensive shortstop, at best. The reason I bring up who he is as a person is because I can’t believe that he would make any kind of stink about being removed for defense late in games in which his team is leading. It’s the right move to make, and it should be made EVERY TIME the Jays have the lead after the 7th - there is, legitimately, no earthly reason not to do it. So far this season, it hasn’t happened once.
The question that bears asking at this point is, why would you have an asset as potentially valuable as McDonald if you’re not going to use him?
Inexcusable #3 - Shannon Stewart was in left field. Stewart is off to a rough start, and the fact that Reed Johnson made what will probably be the best catch of 2008 in the Cubs’ loss to Washington tonight will get more of the haters screaming that the Jays made the wrong choice, but I still believe that they did the right thing at the time. I don’t so much have a problem with Stewart, the problem I have is that Adam Lind spent Friday night sitting on the bench in Pawtucket, watching Syracuse lose 6-1 (Hector Luna hit clean-up! There’s SO much wrong with that). Lind would be the fellow who is hitting .365/.423/.587 for the Chiefs, having recorded an extra-base hit once every seven at-bats on the young season, who the Blue Jays believe is ready for the major leagues. He missed four games a week ago with a stiff neck, but has since returned and gone 5-for-13 (.385/.429/.385) over four games.
I was asked on the pre-pre-game show if Lind was being held down in Syracuse in order to keep him from being a “Super 2″ arbitration player, and I said I didn’t think so, since he had lots of service time already (145 days, I think), and at this point in time, I doubted it would be a factor. But you know what? It might be. With 138 games left in this season, his service time if he was to be called up in the morning would be about a year and 120 days at the end of this season, perhaps avoiding making him a “Super 2″ arbitration-eligible player after the 2009 season. It doesn’t seem like it to me, but Alex Anthopoulos knows the numbers WAY better than I do, and he may well have crunched them to the extent that he’s told J.P. Ricciardi when the right time is for the call-up to keep Lind cheap for an extra year. Please note, this is all conjecture.
The thing is, there doesn’t seem to be any other reason to not have called Lind up on Wednesday, anyway, after he’d come back from the stiff neck and gone 4-for-8 in two games. Maybe the neck has flared up again and that’s why he didn’t start either of the last two games, or maybe the Jays are holding him out because they don’t want him to get hurt in advance of a call-up. I’m usually not a big conspiracy theorist, but if Lind isn’t up here for potential-future-arbitration-eligibility reasons, while he’s swinging a hot bat and this team is MORE than desperate to score runs, that’s the heart of inexcusable #3.
Look, chances are if he winds up being able to hit the way they think he will, they’ll lock him up through arbitration Hill-Rios (Marcum-McGowan?) style before the 2010 season even starts. And Ricciardi’s contract expires after that season anyway, so what does he care how much money Lind makes from 2011 until he becomes a free agent after the 2013 season? If this was a team that wasn’t supposed to do much, like, say, Tampa Bay, and you want to hold a kid back for a couple of weeks to save some money a few years down the road, fine. But I thought it was all about winning now. If this move with Lind was made to save cash, it would seem to put the lie to that notion.
I do believe that he’ll be up to join the club in K.C. for Saturday night’s game, though, unless there’s another show yet to drop. I was told this afternoon that there would be a roster move coming after the game, but so far, not so much.
One thing before I go to bed - with the home run tonight, Overbay now has one homer and two doubles on the season. On April 26, 2006, Overbay woke up having hit two homers and one double on the season. He finished that year with 22 homers and 46 doubles.
I wanted to delve further into the debate I had with a caller about focus/leadership/intensity, but this has gone on too long already. Maybe some other time.
Comments are welcome, as always - let’s keep the JaysTalk going 24/7!
Hey Mike
I couldn’t get through last night to address this, so i’ll do it here.
On Thursday night in the 5th w/ bases loaded and nobody out, Tallet is brought in to stop the bleeding. Firday night in KC in the 8th, Downs is brought in with runners on 1st & 3rd.
Neither were bad choices to bring into the game - I’m not arguing that at all. In fact, Downs got the job done if it weren’t for the Eckstein boner. But..
Why not Jesse Carlson in those situations? Especially in the Tampa Bay game, bases loaded w/ nobody out - I’d say that’s his turf after his performance vs. Texas! Maybe I was swept off my feet by that performace, but I say bring him in!
happy bloggage
MW: There’s something to be said for going with the hot hand, but there’s also something to be said for going with guys who have been getting the job done for a while. I have no problem with Snakeface in that spot tonight, or Tallet Thursday. That time, they were saving Carlson for later in the game, anyway!
- MattMichael of the Ballyard:
Could you please define a Chicken Little, encompassing the reason why it is a proper noun and identifying whatever allusion it is making with your definition?
Also — do you think it’s possible that a couple of well timed wheel plays could save the Jays’ season?
MW: Chicken Little is the guy (the chicken, actually) who ran around screaming that the sky was falling when, in fact, it was not. And a couple of well-time wheel plays? Not especially, though they’re fun to watch and stuff. We haven’t gotten to the point yet where the season needs saving, anyway.
- JCLGrrrrrrrrr. Tonight was hard to take. It’s no fun to make comments on this blog bashing the Jays as they are my favourite team, but sooner or later, something has to give. The fact is, it’s going to take 93 wins at least to have a realistic chance at the AL wild card. This means you can only afford 69 losses at the very most. The Jays are already one-fifth of the way there and would have to go 83-55 the rest of the way to attain that mark. That fact, coupled with the reality that the losses are piling up against the weak sisters of the AL (Rangers, Royals, Rays and A’s) means the Jays will have to play incredibly good baseball against the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Mariners, Indians, Tigers and White Sox to make a playoff run.
This situation is beginning to remind me of 1989 when the Jays went out on a road trip that could only be described as disasterous, culminating with a sweep in Minnesota where they played terrible baseball. Upon returning home, Jimy Williams was fired. I am not advocating firing Gibby or J.P. but accountability has to start somewhere. I live in Ohio where I can listen to the Reds, Indians or Pirates anytime I want to and believe me, the GM or manager of those clubs does not go out of his way to make himself available for radio call-ins like Gibby and J.P. do. I have always found Gibby to be quite likeable when they interview him on the morning show (in the eight o’clock hour no less) and J.P. has always shown tremendous patience in the face of some pretty stupid questions (like “when are we going to get Barry Bonds?” for the one-billionth time.) While the 1989 team fired Jimy and went on to win 89 games and the division, this situation is much different. The ‘89 club had holdovers from the 1985 club who were proven winners. The current edition of the Blue Jays has yet to win anything. For what it’s worth, the 1989 club was 12-24 when Jimy got the axe.
Finally, the jury is still out on the releasing of Frank Thomas and Reed Johnson. Say what you like, but we really will not be able to rate those transactions until the final numbers are in. One thing is for sure, if Johnson and Thomas go on to have big years and the Jays sit at home for another post season, you can be rest assured J.P. and Gibby will both be terminated. This would be especially devestating to J.P.’s career as a GM because it would cast serious problems with his ability to rate talent on the major league level. In that case, the only job he’ll be able to find in baseball will be emptying Gord Ash’s wastebasket in Milwaukee.
MW: If J.P. loses his job, he’ll have no trouble at all getting another one if he wants to. Not as a General Manager, but there will be plenty of positions available for him in lots of big-league front offices. And I’m glad you pointed out that the ‘89 team was 12-24. That’s a lot different than 10-14.
- Jim BranscomeFREE JMAC!
70 points of OBP from Eckstein over McDonald does not make up for the amount of runs JMac would save with his glove. At the very least it should be a platoon with the fan favourite getting every start against lefties. It’s infuriating that this team doesn’t do everything in its power to win, like calling up Lind, signing Bonds, using JMac as a defensive replacement, etc.
BTW, on the show tonight you said “an horrendous”. It’s a little too witty to start using “an”s before Hs, even if you are going to claim horrendous is of Latin origin.
MW: What’s wrong with “an” before a word that starts with “h”? I enjoy that, it’s kinda fun to do, and a lot of people think it’s wrong, which I also enjoy.
- AriIs it possible that the Jays are attempting to make a trade involving Lind, and so they’re sitting him because he could be traded any minute and they don’t want him injured? There are only two reasons I can think of which rationalize (to me) why they would have Lind in AAA and not play him; either he’s hurt or it is especially critical that he doesn’t get hurt any time in the very short term.
MW: It’s a fair guess. Something HAS to be up, unless they’re full of crap when they say it’s “only about winning” this year.
- ColinHi Mike,
My bid for 24/7.
I think you have made a pretty good argument above (although I know it was not your intention) for firing Gibbons and JP.
Let me start with Gibbons. It is my opinion that it is pretty evident that Gibbons makes game decisions based on who he likes and who he doesn’t. Example #1 - Brandon League pitching pretty good in Spring training, then sitting for a week before getting in a game, then getting demoted for not pitching well. Example #2 above in your blog entry (not playing John Macdonald when the Jays have the lead). There is absolutely no reason not to play him.
That is all I have for now on Gibbons examples (seeing as it is late), but there are many more examples of him making decisions with absolutely no basis.
Onto JP. 1’st you example above. There is absolutely no reaason not to bring Lind up earlier in the week. If he is coming off of an injury there is no reason why he couldn’t have played the games up here that he played down there.
Earlier he signs Reed Johnson to a fairly sizable contract. Then picks up a left fielder that he originally wanted before signing Johnson, then can’t deal Johnson because his contract is too big for other teams to pick up (JP overvalued Johnson himself)! Whether you agree or disagree with not wanting Johnson over Stewart doesn’t really matter. Why would you even pick up Stewart if you had already signed Johnson??? Is Stewart so much better than Johnson that you are willing to eat Johnson’s salary + pay Stewart’s? In effect paying the price for two outfielders and only getting one? How retarded is that?
Want another example? The whole Chacin incident last year where he tried to take him off the DL and send him down, only to be stopped by the PA.
Then their is Frank. I believe that the contract he was signed to here forced them to make a move with him. If the at bats incentive was not in the contract, it is my opinion that Frank would still be here. I think they would have had a little more patience with him if they didn’t have that incentive handing over his head.
All the above points to poor management in my opinion.
Time to do something.
MW: To your points - Brandon League’s last two outings in Spring Training were horrible, after he’d been so good the rest of the month. Given his track record, that caused Gibbons to lose confidence in him at the beginning of the season. You can argue about Gibby’s doghouse if you want, but every manager has one. Joe Torre won World Series by going through almost entire seasons only using three relievers in any sort of important situation.
- GlennWith the Lind thing, I’m perplexed, obviously, as I wrote in the blog. As for the Johnson/Stewart thing, Johnson was signed to the non-guaranteed contract in the winter precisely because the Jays thought what might happen would happen. They kept looking for something better to come along, and when it did, they could get out from under Johnson for only $530,000. They’re not paying the price of two outfielders and getting one, they’re paying Stewart + Johnson almost $1.5M less than they would have paid Reed had they just kept him. They had wanted Stewart all along, and had they signed him in December, wouldn’t have even tendered Reed a contract.
The Chacin thing (they did the same thing with League last year, too) stinks, but that’s a business move. Big deal. And with Thomas, the vesting option had something to do with his release, for sure, but the fact that he was killing them in the middle of the line-up and wouldn’t stand for being sat had more to do with it. Without the vesting option, though, maybe he’s never here in the first place.
Mike,
I would like to hear your thoughts on bringing in BJ Ryan in non-save situations, like they did in the final Tampa game.
When you do this, you effectively eliminate any chance of using him the next game in a save situation since he won’t work back to back.
This just adds to Gibby’s everlasting bone-headed logic in managing games. Why bring in your best reliever in game’s you are behind just to handcuff yourself the next day when you have a chance to win. This could very well have happened tonight against KC, and will definitely happen sometime soon.
Cavan
MW: Good point, except that’s not why it happened that way. They’re dealing with a special case with Ryan, in that having him here while he’s not all the way back from Tommy John means that you have to operate under different circumstances. That is, he can’t pitch on consecutive days, and he can’t sit too long without work. Ryan HAD to pitch on Thursday, because he hadn’t pitched since the Saturday before, and you risk losing much of the gains he’s made (a la Victor Z) if he sits too long. So these sorts of things are going to happen if Ryan is on the team. You have to figure out if you’d prefer him here or in Syracuse where they can guarantee he’ll pitch every other day.
- CavanThere is no reason John McDonald shouldn’t be playing every night in some shape or form. I’ve been saying this since March. It’s not surprising that this has cost them games so far (by my count, 2), and it will cost them many more if they don’t change their strategy in the late innings. If it’s “time to win now,” they should atleast have the guts to tell Eckstein to sit on bench for a couple of innings every night. Pathetic.
And can anybody else believe they’ve kept Adam Lind under wraps this week to save a bit of money with his arbitration rights? 5 games he’s been down in Syracuse, and 5 times a struggling offense has lost.
Oh wait…this is the Toronto Blue Jays, that isn’t surprising at all.
Mike, it’s beginning to look more and more like the problem here is cheap ownership that doesn’t care enough about winning. This is disappointing to me.
One more thing… Paul Godfrey went on OTR today and spouted off something stupid about how Bonds would be a distraction, and how he wouldn’t bring ticket sales to the team.
A message for Mr. Godfrey:
Bonds=Wins
Wins=Ticket Sales
There is nothing that can’t be solved with winning a few games.
- SteveMike:
Just another loss .. oh well. I’m not sure why this loss has affected you so much. What happened to “it’s early” and “the sky isn’t falling” and “the season isn’t over”? All teams are going to have losses like this in 162 games so WTF.
As you can see, I’m going with your theory now … the season is early; it will all right itself; these are great hitters and can’t be this bad all season; this is a really good team; they’ll be in contention when it matters. I can’t help but notice they’re the same messages as last year (except for the classic “with so many injuries it’s amazing the Jays won as many games as they have” exuse … which was my personal favourite) and we all know how that season ended up.
I got the impression here that you almost think John Gibbons has made an error in not using Johnny Mac late in games when the Jays have a lead. Therefore would this loss be on your list of possible games in a year that a manager can win/lose? As we all know you don’t think a manager has any effect on games but it sounds like you think he may have aided in this loss.
MW: I get the sarcasm, thanks. Yes, I think you can put this one in Gibbons’ column, but if Eckstein ever gets a hit late to bring the Jays back in a game (or break a tie) then you have to put that win in Gibbons’ column as well.
- Peter B.I don’t understand the people who say that the Jays used injuries as an excuse last season. Did you not see the team play last year? Or do you think that expectations of a team’s success should be based on the 25 people they start the season with, regardless of anything else that happens?
Mike,
We’re almost a month into the season and the Giants are in 2nd place in the NL west.
This is over a sample size that is 4 or 5 times as big as a MLB playoff series.
Sorry for being slightly OT, but what is your opinion of playoffs in baseball and in N. American sports in general?
In the EPL (most successful and popular league in the world)there is a balanced schedule and no playoffs. I think that is the most fair way to determine the “best team”
I just find it a bit hypocritical that sites like Baseball Prospectus criticize the main stream media for putting too much stock in small sample size statistics, but then they seem to overlook this when discussing the playoffs.
Having a best of 5 or 7 series between two major league teams is a complete joke IMO.
What do you think?
MW: I have always thought that same thing. Many times, I’ve advocated that you play 162 games, take the best team in each league, and pit them against each other for the month of October. Best-16-of-31, no off-days. Then we’ll see who the best team in the game is. Of course, we all know that’ll never happens. A best-of-5 proves less than nothing about which team is better, a best-of-7 proves slightly more than that, but not much. The most important thing in winning a World Series once the playoffs start? Luck.
- GregJPGreat post! I was actually thinking that something fishy was up with Lind and I started thinking a trade might be in the works (unlikely) or this has something to do with service time. If true, this is totally unacceptable.
My other point is why do you think a coaching change won’t work? Gibbons has no history as a proven winner. This is his first major league job and he has yet to prove anything. After tonight there has be some doubt in the organization that this guy is not the right man for the job. I agree that changing the coach might not do anything, but at this point, it won’t hurt. The culture of the team has to change. I think a players coach like Gibbons, Torre or Gaston is great for a veteran team, however Toronto has a lot of young promising players and they need a coach to help move them along from good players to great players. Gibbons doesn’t appear to be this type of coach. Look at what happened in Gaston’s final years in Toronto, they lost some of their veterans like Alomar, Molitor, Cone, etc. and were left with young guys like Delgado and Green. Gaston was no longer the right coach for the team and was fired. Once he left Green turned into a superstar, although the team didn’t do anything of significance, I blame Ash for that. In the end, this is an easy going team with a core group of young players and maybe it’s time the Jays look to a proven coach instead of a first timer. We have tried Johnson, Tosca, Martinez and Gibbons, and still have yet to sniff the playoffs; maybe it’s time we bring in someone with a track record of success?
MW: I do believe that the next manager will be someone with a track record of major-league success, but I don’t think they need to fire John Gibbons. I’m sorry, I had a hard time getting through your comment because you kept using the word “coach”. In baseball, they call them managers.
- Robwell I have not had any problems with gibbons in the past, until now. I really believe it’s time for him to go for the following reasons, some of which you’ve already mentioned. mac should be in for defense without question. considering eck only has a 1 yeard deal it makes no sense to be giving him any sort of respect to not sub him. eck should not be hitting leadoff. he uses lefies against righties way too much and gets burned for it. frasor has only 7ip? considering he benched ft for not hitting, then everyone else should be fair game, including eck, stewart, overbay, yet no one else was benched. with the team slumping he gives days off to wells and rios, who were hot at the time. since gibby appears unwilling to change his ways, I think it’s time for him to go.
MW: Wells and Rios were sick.
- lesoh mike, I will take that be that “the jays will finish 10 games ahead of oakland” oh and what was the other one, that the oreos will have 100 losses? I think 99% of the stuff you say is wrong. so if the jays finished 81-81 that means oakland would have to go 56-82 or 41% wp. baltimore would have to go 49-91 or 35%. highly unlikely mike, care to revise your prediction?
MW: Ummmm, how do they do math in your world?
- lesyou know what is also inexcusable? allowing frank thomas to play for another team. there’s something not right about this. if ft was released, jp should have put a condition that he can’t play for another team this year or else he revokes his right to the jays contract. what happens if the jays play oakland and he hits a grand slam against the jays, while the jays are paying his salary? that would look quite foolish wouldn’t it? a stipulation should have been added that if he signs with another team then he revokes the rest of his salary this year. if he did not agree then the jays should have let him rot on the bench. you would think there would be a standard clause in contracts to avoid situations like this.
MW: Three comments in a row, huh? Thomas is far from the first person to sign with a team while another is paying his salary, but there’s nothing you can do about that. You can’t release someone from a contract with stipulations.
- lesThis team is hilarious. Big, emotional comeback by Rolen.. AJ pitches a solid game for once.. and they find a way to lose.
Holy god Eckstein is awful. I don’t care if he puts up OK offensive numbers.. I miss Mac already.
- JustinGreat blog, Mike. Lots of good points. But it points out another reason why Gibbons should be let go. He is stubborn and won’t take calculated risks. His worn out platitudes like, “Didn’t get ‘em today, just have to get ‘em tomorrow” won’t light a fire under anyone, including fans. The Bobcat is right about that cat.
MW: I don’t understand. Do you expect a manager to throw his entire team under a bus after a loss? To call out individual players? Think back about all the times that that has happened and the criticism of the manager or coach that has followed. You want the guy in charge to stay on an even keel.
- JohnHi, Mike:
I didn’t hear JaysTalk last night, but I gather from a comment in the earlier blog that there was a discussion along the lines of luck, and how “baseball is a game of inches”. I therefore assume that you probably mentioned those two doubles of Buck’s, but if not, talk about “bad luck” (from Jays’ viewpoint)! Looked to me that in each case, less than an inch made the difference between two doubles (and at least two runs) and just two foul balls.
MW: Didn’t actually mention the game of inches aspect with those ground balls that were, in fact, JUUUUUUUUUUUUST fair. We were talking more about focus and intensity and leadership and how I think that’s mostly a myth.
- NormOn another subject, normally I enjoy Darren Fletcher’s comments on the TV broadcast, but I could hardly believe my ears last night when, commenting on the horrible Eckstein error in the 8th, he said “there’s no-one else I’d rather have taking that play”. Are you kidding me???
To me, this is “Inexcusable #4″ — maybe it’s just because he hasn’t been on much so far this year and has forgotten we have Johnny Mac on the squad.
- NormHi Mike
Totally agree about bringing J.Mac. in late in games we have the lead , Gibbons seemed happy to bring in Coates as a defensive sub when Stewart and Stairs were in left so why not do the same at short.Johnny Mac has had the least playing time of all the position players so far this season ,has he upset somebody? could he not have played a game at third when Scutoro was struggling with the bat?.
Now on to the outfield !! , all three of them allowed runners to take extra bases last night either by throwing to the wrong bases or not throwing at all , whats that about ? .
On a positive note it was great to see Rolen in the line up and hopefully Lind will be up soon.Hopefully thats the bad run (that all teams have)out of the way and i look forward to lots of long winning streaks.
MW: You’re not the only one who looks forward to that, but I’d take one long winning streak, it’s been years. I talked about the Stewart throw in the post, Wells I don’t think screwed up a throw, there was a time he thought about it but didn’t fire, though.
- BillyI agree with you that Johnny mac definately should have been in the game in the 8th, there is excuse for letting him rot on the bench. He is definately not the team to be a pinch hitter. I hate to jump on Gibbons but i think if the Jays get swept out of KC he will not be on the team flight to Boston. Not only did Eck muff that DP but i also think that McDonald would have at least kept Butler’s single in the infield which would also have prevented the 3rd KC run.
I almost cried when Eck dropped that ball its an inexcusable play.
I would also like to see the outfiled not be so lazy, there were a couple of plays where runners took an extra base on them and that should not happen, it is one of the reasons i don’t like manny and i don’t want to see them fall into the bad habbit of not making good throws to get the ball back in.
- ChadMike - your opinion on the following: who is the better hitter against LHP - Zaun or Barajas? I always figured in my mind that Rod was the better hitter against lefties, but could I possibly be wrong?
MW: Yep. It’s Zaun.
- BrandonHey Mike. Didn’t see the game last night but its good to see that even though your job is with the media, you are a Jays fan at heart and this performance on the field is annoying you just as much as a large majority of us who are loyal fans. I couldn’t agree more with the idea of replacing D-Ex for J-Mac when your leading in the 7th inning. It worked well with a Johnson/Cat platoon in the 2005 season. I’ve had enough of John Gibbons, but I’m only for replacing a manager when there is someone else who upper management honestly believes can get the decision making job done better! JP seems content with him though and it’s starting to annoy me!
- Matt from BCDo you think Gibbons is getting his orders regarding the use of Eckstein from JP? I agree with you 100% that McDonalds needs to be in there with the lead in the late innings. Do you have a hunch as to why they’re not doing this?
MW: I think Gibby might think it’s a sign of disrespect to Eckstein to yank him, that’s the only thing I can think of. If that’s the reason, than someone needs to change Gibby’s mind in a hurry.
- CamMike, you agrued with a caller on jaystalk you don’t believe in team chemistry. Why don’t you believe in that?
MW: Because every team that wins has good team chemistry and every team that loses has poor team chemistry, according to the fans and a lot of the media. I don’t believe that chemistry causes winning, I believe that winning causes chemistry.
- andrewHey Mike. I couldn’t help but notice that 2 out of 3 of your “inexcusables” are the result of one thing and that thing is decision making (or lack thereof) of John Gibbons.
You have been a steadfast defender of this man in his entire tenure with the Blue Jays. Would you now concede that maybe the “shake up” this teams needs is a change of managers?
I know your agruments have been that managers don’t hit, pitch, and run bases but the good ones provide motivation to get these things done sucessfully.
In my opinion, John Gibbons has lost the control and respect of his clubhouse and should be replaced.
Your thoughts please Mike…
MW: How do you jump from “he didn’t use McDonald for defense in the 8th” to “he’s lost control and respect of the clubhouse”? That’s a pretty huge leap.
- BrentMike Who Needs A Reality Check:
It’s the middle of the season early in the season for these pretenders and its getting close to late however. A strong start for these pretenders was VERY IMPORTANT. The bigger the hole they dig themselves 2-10 the bigger the hole they need to climb out of 10-2. It feels like a century the last time we’ve seen them go on a long winning streak. This has never been a team that has been capable to coming back from slow starts. There’s always a first, problem is these pretenders are worse this year than the past few. When you keep defending the on going mistakes by Richardi ie Reed for Shannon it shows your lack of player judgment just like Richardi. Reed should be here plain and simple and as a matter of fact Hinske should of been signed over Scutaro. A left handed bat that can play LF, RF, 3B, 1B. plus cheaper. These 2 home growns would of made a difference in the clubhouse. Richardi 2 yrs ago said having all these right handed bats is not a problem. Trades for another right handed bat in Scutaro with his only trading partner Beane who always takes him for a ride. So please stop defending it you look like a fool or worse you’ll lose baseball respect. This guy is as lousy a GM as Ash. If he fires Gibbons the only noble thing he should do is resign. If not, I would hope people stop listening, watching and going to the games until he is fired. I hope Godfrey gets the message if not I hope Ted fires them all. This is Chicken S…
MW: I’m never going to get that minute of my life back, am I?
- brunoHi Mike,
I turned the game off last night after the Jays went down 1-0 in the 5th, expecting A.J. to implode. Says a lot, I ’spose, about my confidence in our hitters. Glad I did though. I would have driven off the road in the 8th.
But rather than vent spleen at the team or call for someone’s head, I thought I’d ask a question. In the deecade from the mid-80s to the mid-90s, there were a ton of books on or related to the Blue Jays. I particularly liked Gare Joyce’s The Only Ticket Off the Island and Stephen Brunt’s Diamond Dreams. There were lots of lame quickie bios too — I’m sure we all fondly recall Kelly Gruber’s Kelly: At Home On Third — but at least someone was writing about the team.
Lately, nada. Aside from the 25th anniversary coffee table book, and parts of Chasing Steinbrenner, you’d barely know the team existed, judging from the publishing world.
I enjoy the immediacy of blogs, but I also like the broader perspective a book can bring. So … Do you know anyone working on a book about the Jays? Have you considered it? I think the Ricciardi era, whenever it ends, is worthy of a book-length analysis.
MW: I don’t know that there are any Blue Jays books being worked on right now. I don’t think the market exists for it, times are very different than from about 1983-1994, when it was all Jays, all the time. And I’m pretty sure most people wouldn’t want me writing the historical perspective on the J.P. Ricciardi era.
- Jason MMike,
I often hear about how the Jays are doomed to fail for a number of reasons. The one I want to address today is the perceived inability to throw runners out. First off, let me state that I am not a mathematician, so my calculations may, in fact, have no actual value. But, I think that I have calculated the difference in probable runs scored between Gregg Zaun and Ivan Rodriguez, based on career CS%. I used this years LAA as the offensive team. They are on pace to attempt 209 steals. For this exercise, I have made a few assumptions. First, that when stealing second, teams divide their attempts equally with 0, 1, and 2 outs. I know this may not be the case, but I didn’t want to spend hours figuring out the correct ratio. My second assumption is that teams will steal second over third at a 4:1 ratio. Again, this may not be the case, but, like I stated, I’m lazy. Here’s what I found.
Based on his career CS%, Zaun will not catch 159 players attempting to steal (CS% of 24%), and Rodriguez will not catch 110 (CS% of 47%). I then looked at the probable number of runs scored based on having a runner on second vs. first for each of the outs. For steals of third, I only used attempts with 1 out, based on the strategy of “not getting the first or third out at third base.” Using the probable number of runs scored in Jim Albert’s book Teaching Statistics Using Baseball, I figured that when Zaun doesn’t throw out runners, it costs the Jays 37.1 runs over 162 games. I then did the same calculation with Rodriguez, and, by not throwing runners out, costs his team 24.27 runs. Therefore, Zaun’s “weakness” at throwing runners out costs the Jays 12.83 runs more than Rodriguez, arguably one of the best ever at throwing base stealers out. That’s 12.83 runs over 162 games. Or, about 1 extra run every 12.6 games. This is why I really couldn’t care less about runners being caught trying to steal a base. If the Jays give up 700 runs this year, that means that this “weakness” contributes to less than 2% of the Jays total runs allowed.
I understand that this uses league average probable runs, but this just illustrates that what is perceived to be a “major” weakness for the Jays, based on comments in newspapers, blogs, etc…, is nearly insignificant when compared to one of the greatest defensive catchers of all time.
What are your thoughts?
P.S. Baseball-reference.com is such a fantastic site for anyone wanting to play around with baseball stats. They have almost anything you could possibly think of.
MW: I like the work, and I like your admission that you make stuff up and are lazy. Well done! Even after you did all that, you didn’t take into account the OPS difference between Zaun and Rodriguez, which makes the difference in runs lost even smaller. Look, there was only one team worse than the Jays at throwing out basestealers last year, the San Diego Padres, and they finished a half-game out of the playoffs after losing the Wild Card tie-breaker.
- OxyMike, I wasn’t there but from what I’ve read, your ability to make up new words is beginning to rival Dennis Eckersley.
Was he really the first person to use the term walk-off as in walk off home run?
MW: I don’t know. Good question.
- Sam McLeanI just don’t get any of it. From the Thomas thing onward, things have just gone mental. The Lind/eligibility thing is insane given the circumstances: why drop Thomas if you knew that in advance? He got around ok on a couple of fastballs against Boston. They didn’t think he was finished then. I like J.P., but it’s like he’s playing for 2009 already. (Which we look pretty good for by the way.) These games have been thrown away by not fielding our best team. I just really, really don’t get it.
Also, in your list of worst releases, signings and trades, how could you not have put Carpenter on that list. I know he’s currently hurt, but he did win a CY YOUNG (not to mention a World Series)?
MW: Carpenter wasn’t a release. He left as a free agent. The Jays should absolutely not have signed him, given his injury. He was only the 4th pitcher EVER to return from a torn labrum and be even moderately successful.
- peteMike,
I agree with you that everything has been inexcusable thus far.
And you are right, I just don’t get why Gibbons/Ricciardi will refuse to use McDonald in late game situations. I always thought that Gibbons is a bright manager, but these defensive decisions seems to have made him egress as an effective manager in my eyes.
The Jays completely blew the first part of the road trip against beatable opponents. 5 Losses in a row against sub-.500 opponents, coupled with a sweep from the lowly Rangers makes me wonder how the Jays are going to perform once the schedule gets tougher. This is arguably what should have been the easier part of the schedule for them.
- Mark#1 - Free Adam Lind
#2 - Free John McDonald
#3 - Free Barry Bonds
That is all.
- TylerOh, and if we have time, Free Tibet.
- TylerYo Mike, as Yogi said “It got late early” As far as this current bj season is going. When the ACE of the staff can’t hold a 3run lead vrs THE LAST PLACE team,when your G.M. gives you a shortstop who can hit and one who is the best defensive S.S. in the game and GIBBONS chooses to use ONLY ONE ALL THE TIME. As u said Mike INEXCUSABLE…John
MW: So you’re picking on Roy Halladay now?
- John ArtisWHERE IS ADAM LIND?????
Mike, i cannot begin to explain how furious i was last night. You know what? I did’nt even freeking sleep because of those Jays. I was watching the game at my buddies place and i even said when the 8th came around that bringing in AJ was a bad move and BAM!!!!- look what happened. Yes, i do understand that Gibby was left short with options and most likely wanted AJ to pull through but Carlson only pitched one inning the night before so what the hell!!!.
So…my main issue with last night besides Eck and his brutal mistake(WHERE WAS JOHNNY MAC???) was the outfielders and there lack of effort and pure laziness. In particular, Vernon Wells. I think there were 2 or 3 plays where he got to the ball and faked throwing while KC had men running to home base. The throws most likely would not have got the runners out but for F#@$ sakes at least try!!!!! SO LAZY….
This is what finding with this team. There seems to be no effort what so ever and i feel that there is no motivation.
The highlight of the night- Scott Rolen baby!!!! Man it’s good to have him back…
Anyways…sorry if this comes across as messy but i’m kinda frustrated as i’m sure so many others are.
Have a good one!
WO!
MW: There’s no lack of effort, there’s no laziness, there’s plenty of motivation. They’re just not winning.
- Warren OwenBesides that Buck hit that was just fair, was there one hard hit ball all inning? A lot unlucky the Jays were there. Also, I know you will disagree, but Vernon Wells has lost a step in center (okay maybe a half step or even quarter step), he just seems to be letting balls drop in front of him or get by him. I’m concerned to the tune of 7/126. And what was with the no throw to second on Gload’s double and to third later in the game. That’s inexcusable #4
MW: I’m not going to disagree with you. Vernon may indeed have lost half a step, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while. I understood the no-throw to second on the Gload double. It didn’t look like he would have gotten him, so why throw. I’m not sure which no-throw to third you’re talking about - if it was Stewart on the Butler single in the 8th, I’ve already addressed that.
- MarkThere are teams that do things right and teams that do things wrong. The pretenders (jays) are team that do things wrong. That’s why we can only hope JP Richardi gets fired. This guy is behind the times.
MW: Definitely. Of all the criticisms I’ve heard about Ricciardi, “behind the times” is the best.
- brunoHey Mike,
After Gibbons elected to intentionally walk Pena, why was the whole infield brought in when DeJesus came up? If you intentionally walk a batter to load the bases with one out, you are looking for a double play. To me it seems logical that the corners would play in and hill and Eckstein at double-play-depth. As it was, the whole infield was in and DeJesus punched a hit through the right side (not that it was a great double play candidate anyways). Were they more worried about cutting down the run and simply loaded the bases to create the force at home? To me the walk seems pointless if this is the case. Maybe you can shed some light on this.
Also I was amused by the caller who said that Zaun and Overbay were bringing down the offense the last couple of days. And I liked your comment that all of Zaun’s hits have come with two out and nobody on, haha.
MW: Why is the walk pointless if it’s to load the bases and cut down the 6-4 run at the plate?
- ScottFinally you criticize the Jays front office a little bit instead of always defending them. I think if the Jays lose the next two games in KC Gibbons is gone.
- aviHi Mike,
How long do you think the Jays will wait to pull the trigger on John Gibbons? I’m not suggesting that this is the best move, but if part of the reason for letting Frank Thomas go was that management were unwilling to wait for his hitting to come around, it seems that there is little patience for a slow start and changing the manager is really the only big move left. I wonder if JP has a plan. If they make an early move (around 50 games as JP did with Buck Martinez) who is there that might make an immediate positive impact (like Cito)? Is there a coach here now that could take this team to its potential?
It is interesting that in the Jays’ history they have only replaced the manager mid season three times (letting Cito go with 5 games left doesn’t really count) and two of those times it has been JP making the change.
MW: Nobody thought Cito would make an immediate positive impact at the time he was hired. I don’t think what’s going on is Gibby’s fault, but if it goes on for another month, or if heaven forfend it’s an 0-9 road trip, he’ll be fired.
- ShawnThat discussion about leadership/focus/intensity was interesting … Also kind of humourous was your in-depth explanation to the caller about how the Jays don’t ALWAYS lose to first year pitchers.
I never thought Jays Talk would have turned into Psychology Talk, as that’s a topic straight out of an intro psychology class.
MW: I always knew I’d put my psych degree to good use someday.
- ColeAny wild trade speculation if the jays play like this up until the trade deadline. How horrible would that be if they did, but I thought some rampant trade speculation would take my mind off the teams struggles. Any idea if management would rather trade AJ or see if he walks and take the 2 draft picks? Also saw that Blair speculates that one of Zaun or Barajas could be traded as well with Diaz in the waiting. I was thinking maybe AJ for Chin-Lung Hu of the Dodgers or Clement from Seattle (wishful thinking I’m sure). There’s not really any other trade candidates that stand out to me, any ideas Mike?
It’s been a long time since JP has done anything substantial as far as a mid season trade.
MW: If the Jays keep this up, and they’re 60 games out at the deadline, Burnett will definitely be traded, and so might a bunch of other guys, but it’s too early to try to figure out who the buyers will be selling.
- clintWhile I do agree that a manager doesn’t personally hit .120 with RISP, I think the manger is responsible for the environment in which this occurs.
It’s still early but it might be possible that this team, for whatever reason, just doesn’t respond to Gibby’s reign.
I’m willing to write off the transgressions of the past (Hillebrand, Lilly, etc.) as they weren’t as one-sided as irrational fans believe but if this continues, one has to wonder if Gibbons is the guy who can motivate and inspire a group of talented professionals. I’m beginning to think that he is not.
MW: OR, if this is a group of talented professionals that can’t get the job done.
- ronShort and sweet. Fire Gibbons. Possibly fire Riccardi and if Godfrey doesn’t like that idea, fire him too!
- KevinI don’t want to sound too negative, but Vernon Wells didn’t exactly put in a good effort last night. Nobody is talking about how he (maybe) could have made a catch or two last night or how he decided to hold onto the ball without at least trying to make a throw, a couple of times, in a tight game.
Wells is great when he’s on but last night he looked bored.
Mike, what did you think of Vernon’s play of late?
MW: I think it’s hilarious that people think that when players don’t make plays it’s because they’re not trying or because they’re bored.
- JawnNot gonna lie, this season has been nothing short of frustrating. But when Rolen hit that double…there was hope and so much happiness. That all was soon crushed as we know quite quickly.
I just had a quick question, with such a demoralizing loss, how do you think this team will rebound given the thomas situation and constant scrutiny? Fold or rebound?
MW: I think the offense is bound to come around, sooner than later.
- TSMr. Wilner:
Usually I completely disagree with you, since you toe the company line so often. (after all, your paycheques are signed by the same guy who signs the G.M.’s paycheques).
But it is nice to hear you FINALLY growing some er…parts of genitalia, and stating some truth about MacDonald.
Now, can you take it to the next step and state the obvious: Gibbons should be history, as well as Ricciardi.
BTW, last night that Johnson statement about the “best move at the time” is crap. EVERY GM makes what he considers the best move at that time. The ones that stay employed are correct in the long run. The ones that were wrong, as is our GM so often, are fired.
He was on the hook for 3.3 million for Johnson if he kept him, vs the 1.5 million Stewart gets this year. Any way you cut it. Johnson is worth the 1.8 million more it would have cost to keep him
Considering that he just ate 7 million on the Thomas debacle, it is very clear that money in the short term is no object.
Bottom line: Ricciardi is an awful GM, and should be given his outright release, just like the butcher of pitching staffs, Gibbons.
MW: Not true. And read back in the archives from late March for plenty of ways to cut it as to why Johnson isn’t worth that extra money. It’s very easy to look at the first three weeks of a season and say someone made a mistake. But they play 6 months, not one. And, ummm, I’ve also been pushing the whole “McDonald for defense” thing since the day the Jays signed Eckstein. Glad you’re finally paying attention, though.
- PaulIf David Eckstein is “the shortstop” which clearly is how Gibbons views him, then why on earth do they not release John McDonald who has no function on this team now that Rolen is back? Surely there is a manager somewhere in baseball who knows how to make use of one of the best defensive infielders in the game.
Do you think there is a chance they will do that? I’d really like to see some of those highlight reel plays again. I’m also worried that Johnny Mac’s fielding skills will deteriorate from getting virtually no playing time this year.
MW: I’m no so much worried about that, but you ask a great question. Why is McDonald even here if he’s not going to be used?
- DebbieHey Mike
On your call-in show you called Eckstein a passable defensive shortstop. I have to disagree. Last year in St. Louis his defence was statuesque, and the statistics - rough as they are - bear that out. Baseball Think Factory and Hardball Times had him as the third worst shortstop in the NL; Bill James’ Fielding Bible had him as the fifth worst in baseball. All three metrics had him closer to noted butchers Derek Jeter and Hanley Ramirez than John McDonald.
The team is having problem with offence. However, the Jays are still near the top of the league on base percentage. The problem is in hitting for power, which Eckstein does not provide. In fact, last year McDonald had a higher IsoP than Eckstein. The solution to the Jays hitting woes lies in their hitters who are supposed to be hitting for power beginning to hit for power, Eckstein is largely inconsequential to this problem.
The upshot of this is that I believe there is a legitimate argument for John McDonald to be given the starting shortstop position ahead of Eckstein. At age 33, Eckstein’s current OBP of 330 - which is at most 10 points below where it should be - does not make up the difference in defensive plays made.
MW: I can’t really argue with you.
- DanWells is way too relaxed in the field. His defense has really dropped since his gold glove seasons. Same problem with Rios. They are fast but do not try hard. Wells and Rios nonchalance manner kind of resembles the whole team. If the best and highest paid players on the team lack focus the rest will follow.
MW: Again, there’s no lack of effort, there’s no lack of focus (well, occasionally with Rios). They’re not not trying. They’re just losing.
- aviHi Mike.
I’m wondering if the extra offense Eckstein is supposed to provide this season will more than compensate for his inferior defense vs. John MacDonald? I know Eckstein has been pretty productive offensively in his careeer to date, but of course, the Jays aren’t paying him for what he’s done in the past - it’s what he does from this point forward that counts. Is he going to generate more runs for the Jays than what MacDonald would have prevented had he been in there dazzling everyone with his defense? I also wonder if Roy Halladay wouldn’t rather have MacDonald as the starting SS for EVERY start he makes to gobble up all those ground balls?
James
MW: Roy Halladay would DEFINITELY have McDonald as his starting SS every game.
- Jameshttp://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/04/26/proof-that-the-baseball-gods-do-exist/
MW: It’s a fun read, but here’s the thing. Pena got ahead 2-0 because the Jays pitched out twice, hoping to snuff a suicide squeeze. Once it got to 2-0, the IBB (sad as it was) was a very defensible move for all the reasons the author stated - got the lefty-lefty match-up, set up the force at home, and every hitter is better when they’re ahead in the count 2-0. To illustrate this, I looked back at the numbers, and as pathetic a hitter as Tony Pena, Jr. is (and he is), when he had a plate appearance last season in which the count got to 2-0, he hit .350/.447/.600.
- GregJPLoss might actually be a good thing??
These last 3 years have been nothing but more of the same. Win 2, Lose 2, Win 3 Lose 3, never win more then five, and always lose 8-10 in a row once or twice a season. Apparently, management is complacent with this and feel no change is needed. Maybe this loss brings us to a realization that something has got to be done.
There are different ways to rate a manager. Objectively we can evaluate his decisions and on a more subjective level we can look to the way that he presents himself. Gibbons is failing in both categories.
Simple things matter in good fundamental baseball. Obviously I do not pretend to know anywhere near as much as a guy like Gibby would know about baseball let me get that straight. But even the most modest fan knows that his motivations behind not inserting Johnny Mac in the late innings as a defensive substitute are ill fated. He is the best defensive shortstop in baseball and on top of that, it’s his role. I can’t imagine that JP did not take this into account when he signed Eckstein. He’s not an airhead who signs SS’s to 3 million dollar contracts and then changes his mind a couple of weeks later and signs a replacement. He signed Mac knowing that he wanted to improve his SS position, in terms of batting, and would do so if at all possible. If this happened then the Mac signing would not be a bad one cause after all…. HE IS THE BEST FIELDING SS IN BASEBALL and surely would provide an MLB manager with utility in cases such as last night? What was Gibbons thinking??
I recently posted a pool for my fantasy league to answer. The answers were overwhelming. Jays lead the league in DP (Or near the top) with one out 10th against Texas, Scuttaro @ 1st, Overbay at 3rd, Inglett at the plate. What do you do? Overwhelmingly response was to send Scuttaro and avoid the DP…they’ll probably give you second considering Scooters speed and the threat of Overbay getting home on an errant throw. You still have an out to play with and only Overbay’s run really matters. Just wanted your comment on that…. anything I’m missing or was this just a bonehead move.
One more thing. I realize that I cannot judge Gibbons posture with his players in terms of motivation solely through what I see in the media. But I can certainly make inference. Yesterdays post game news conference was atrociously predictable….”yeah ya know, we’ll start hitting, there’s no motivational problem, this is major league baseball, if ya can’t get up for that ya can’t get up for anything”. Come on…. humans are humans; these guys make millions and play a 162 games a season. Sometimes it’s the simple laws of nature that ask for us to receive some motivation. I am not asking that Gibbons call out his players in a crazy way. Just state the obvious. “We’re in a slump and these guys need to start producing, whoever that may be”. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Gibby has got to go. Plain and simple. And yeah…. it may not be his fault that they are not producing and I genuinely like him, but nonetheless, he should go. We measure statistics all of the time. I have retrospective data that says we don’t win with Gibby, or at least that the chances are small. And yes the chances are unknown with a new manager, but at this point, that seems to me to be the better option. Thanks Mike.
MW: On the Inglett thing, a suicide squeeze was attempted the pitch before the double-play grounder. There was a reasonable chance that the Jays could have tried the squeeze again, and therefore a reasonable chance the Rangers would have pitched out, so you don’t hit-and-run. You hope the pitcher delivers something up in the strike zone, to make getting the bunt down harder, and that Inglett can at least hit a fly ball to win the game.
I don’t like the fact that Gibbons won’t use McDonald for late-inning defense when it’s absolutely necessary, but that’s not enough to get him fired. And he’s right, you have to stay even-keeled, you can’t treat a baseball season like a series of 10- or 16-game sprints, and you can’t let your frustrations boil over in front of the media.
- Christopher MarinoniHi Mike,
I’m a huge Jays fan and I am disgusted with the start to this season. This is a team of individuals. I know this because if this team had chemistry they’d be far more consistent. If you look at the names on this team on paper it is very obvious that the talent is there. You’ve got four great pitchers in the rotation, almost every hitter in the lineup has pop in there bat and has great ability to hit the ball into play. They get all their hits when it doesn’t matter. Their Avg. with runners in scoring position backs up that statement. Getting rid of Frank Thomas and so called “Shaking up the team” hasn’t done us any good. I think we need to bring in Barry Bonds or else it will be another 80-87 win year. However, the season isn’t over and the Jays can stil;l turn it around. They’ve got two more games with Kansas City and these are very critical because the Jays are digging themselves into a hole and are slipping further and further down and soon it will take a miracle to climb back out. Thanks Mike for taking the time to read my email. I listen to your show every night and when I try to phone up I’m told to wait till I’m older to phone up. I did once however get through and I got to talk to you and Casey Janssen. That was an exciting moment for me. Thanks Mike for taking the time to read my email and being The Jays best analyst.
MW: Thanks for listening and reading, I’m really happy that I could provide you with an exciting moment!
- WarrenI am afraid you are right about Adam Lind because it is the only explanation. The club is no longer making baseball decisions. I though that Reed Johnson was a baseball decision (and supported it), not financial. In hindsight, he would be a great fourth outfielder and an upgrade to Buck Coats and Joe Inglett. Frank Thomas clearly was not a baseball decision. I think Frank had a great quote about his production the other night. I value walks almost as much as base hits, and he made great points about his run production this year. The Adam Lind situation needs to be explained, but of course we would never get a straight answer. This is unacceptable. I give my life (and finances) to this team and it seems they are treating me on the cheap. $10 million for Frank Thomas isn’t bad when you consider the Yankees pay $24 for Giambi. At least use that money to sign Bonds! I used to be a big JP fan, but I’ve had it up to here.
MW: I didn’t think Frank made many good points in saying that he was off to a huge start and talking about his 11 RBIs. He neglected to mention that 10 of them came in a four-day span and he hadn’t done a thing at the plate in the two weeks since.
- Jim BQuirky story for you, Michael of the Ballyard:
After seeing you suggest the Spirit of Radio as your hypothetical intro music, I listened to it on YouTube (YouTube is a wonderful source for music) around, I don’t know, 11 pm or so. First time hearing it, that I can think of. Then, in bed around 3 am, I was flipping around on the radio on my old-school CD player (to hell with iPods etc) and I heard it again! Twilight zone, baby.
MW: Spooky. Great song, though, isn’t it?
- JCLThis team isn’t commited to winning and here is a few reasons why:
1) The chose Stewart over Johnson because Johnson was due to make 3.5ish with Stewart making 1.5ish. Money saving move.
2) Cutting Thomas although he has stunk is not designed to make us better it is designed to be a Money saver. Thomas’s number will be there at the end.
3) NOT SIGNING BARRY BONDS!!! Money saver and pathetic in my mind.
4) Not having Lind up the instant Thomas was gone too limit his service time and therefor a money saver.
We have an extremely rich man who owns this team and the stadium but still runs this team like a business. How about we start doing whats right for the team instead of what is right for the bank statement.
MW: Points three and four are correct, except I don’t think not signing Bonds is about money, points one is incorrect, point two is less than half right.
- Maty39Hey Mike,
I think I remember you saying that you’d prefer having someone else lead-off instead of David Eckstein. If so, who would you prefer to see leading off? Also, who do you think is the best lead-off batter in the majors right now?
MW: Right now, I’d prefer to see Lyle Overbay leading off, believe it or not. And right this very second, the best lead-off man in the majors is Desmond DeChone Figgins of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.
- Dan CMy analysis was in direct response to the idea that throwing runners out is important. I can’t think of a skill in baseball that contributes less to a team’s success. I didn’t even want to bring offense to the analysis or my head would explode. I just wanted to show what little impact that throwing runners out actually had over the course of a season.
I have a question:
What is the timetable for BJ Ryan to take one a normal closer’s schedule? (ie not a strict every other day routine)
MW: The last thing I want is for your head to explode. I would say by mid-to-late May, Ryan will be back on a normal schedule.
- OxyYes, definitely a great song.
- JCLHey Mike,
I’m very frustrated with Vernon Wells. It seems that he fails to perform under pressure. He can hit a home run when no one is on but when we have loaded bases and 2 out, he goes missing. Would there be a possibility of him being moved if the season goes down the tank?
MW: Wells has only had two at-bats this year with the bases loaded, but he has gotten out both times. I can understand your frustration, though, after all, how many Jays actually have a higher batting average and OPS with runners in scoring position than when they don’t? Oh, right. Vernon does.
- JonHey Mike,
I wrote on your last blog about Stewart letting a guy go from first to third on a single to left. I then questioned whether Stewart cares about playing the outfield. You promptly ridiculed my question by citing the fact that Stewart didn’t want to let the batter get to second base on the throw to third.
My point is, if Stewart had any passion for his position, he never would have needed to throw to third (i.e. the runner would have stayed at second). On that play, instead of charging a ground ball single, Stewart waited for the ball to get to him, thus giving the runner time to advance to third.
There are numerous other examples of Stewart loafing around in left field. Yesterday, on another ball hit to left field, I fully expected Stewart to come up with it and throw it back in. However, Stewart got nowhere near the play, which forced Vernon to race over from centerfield and get the ball. So, is it that Stewart is just so slow in left that he can’t make plays like he should, or does he just not really care about fielding his position? I’m starting to think that Fatt Stairs could do a better job out there.
MW: I ridiculed your idea because the thought that a player in the major leagues doesn’t care about what he’s doing is ridiculous.
- JasonFirstly, I love Jaystalk… And I love this blog… But some fans really need to get out more… I mean some of these replies are more like essays….
Secondly, Mike I have always wondered if you could make the transition into general sports talk radio and have your own show one day… After the comment about football coaches being overrated, I dont know about anymore haha… Please indulge me on this?
MW: I have done plenty of other sports, but baseball is the true love. I think football coaches are overrated. They’re very important, moreso than coaches in any other sport, probably, but they’re treated as though the entirety of the sport revolves around the critical decisions that they must make. And most of them seem not to have a clue about clock management late in close games.
- SteveHey, we had the Johnny Mac discusasion not too long ago as this is pretty much the 2nd game he cost us by not playing JM type defence in the last 2 innings. Aside from that time continuum thing the Jays would be and should be 12-12. It’s F’ing frusterating.
MW: The space-time continuum holds a lot of sway, though.
- Nicky ZI think with Rolen back the 3-4-5 should be some combination of Wells, Stairs, and Rolen. That leaves Rios for the first spot, and he certainly seems to be taking enough walks for the job, and his base stealing abilities is the cherry on top. If Gibby was concerned with stacking righties he could go Rios-Overbay-Rolen-Stairs-Wells-Lind-Hill-Zaun-McDonald, and if not I’d go Rios-Hill-Rolen-Stairs-Wells-Overbay-Lind-Zaun-McDonald. What ya think of my orders, or mainly, moving Rios up in the order?
MW: I don’t mind Rios leading off, because it gets Eckstein out of the top spot, but I don’t know if Rolen has shown enough to be a 3-hitter.
- AriPS. I called Jays talk after I think 10 games and said I wasn’t impressed with Eck. I stand by it. Your response was, He tries 110 %, etc. SOOOOOO? Desn’t every major league player give 110%. Bring in a hitting coach who actually had played in the majors, maybe hit a few hr’s of his own. Dembo hasn’t even hit more than 5 hrs in the minors. WTF? Blame the avg. with risp on him.
MW: Yeah, he’s the guy who is 10 for his last 86. Damnit, why can’t he pick up his game?
- Nicky ZIs there a law that states if your name is Buck, you are granted two doubles a game vs the Jays?
MW: Not that I’m aware of, but there are some old statutes that are still on the books.
- sammyHi Mike,
Always enjoy listening to JaysTalk and reading your blogs.
Just wanted to comment on the inexcusable move keeping Eckstein in the game. I agree that McDonald should have been in the game defensively in the 8th. The only (somewhat?) logical(?) reason I can think of is that Eckstein was due to bat in the 9th inning and Gibbons might have wanted Eckstein’s bat in the top of the 9th to possibly stretch the lead and then use McDonald defensively in the bottom of the 9th. I don’t think Gibby or anyone could have forecasted the meltdown in the bottom of the 8th, especially after the clutch hitting by Rolen in the top of the inning. I think it’s possible Gibbons was looking ahead to the 9th inning instead of managing the 8th.
Keep up the great work with the JaysTalk and bloggage!
MW: You have to make sure there’s a lead to take with you to the 9th. If it had been the 7th, with Eck coming up third in the 8th, then that’s easier to understand.
- DarcyWell Lind wasn’t the answer, send him down and free, ahh, oh I don’t know, Russ Adams. Seriously though this can’t keep going can it? That was a terrible first call strike to Lind in the eigth. Wells needs to be taken out of the 4th spot, maybe Stairs clean up followed by Rolen and then Wells. I have a feeling the homestand is going to have a ton of empty seats. There are my random thoughts on the jays.
MW: There are still four games left on the trip before you have to worry about the homestand, but if this keeps up, I’m sure we’ll see a couple of 11,000s. And no, this can’t keep going on. It never has before. Ever. I mean, this is Cleveland Spiders bad.
- clintAnother poor showing tonight, going 1 for 14 with RISP, and the 1 didn’t even drive in the run–it was a fielding error by the shortstop on what could have been (but might not have been) an inning ending double play.
MW: Wouldn’t have been a double play, but the point is taken. When you say “poor showing”, by the way, you’re being kind.
- TorgenFirst of all, the guy who said this isn’t the special Olympics, results and not effort matters obviously hasn’t met a Special Olympian, and has no respect for them in general. I think he should be ashamed.
I have a bone to pick with Jerry and I wanted your comment on this. Last night you were waxing eloquent on the need to put Johnny Mac in. Today on the pre-game show, Jerry was interviewing Gibby, and I was waiting for him to ask why Gibby didn’t put in Johnny Mac. However, Jerry didn’t ask the question. Why won’t Jerry or Alan ask those sorts of questions? I think they are the ones that need to be asked the most, especially by the media which is very close to the team.
If you had the opportunity to interview Gibby, would you ask the hard questions?
MW: That’s a question you’ll have to ask Jerry, I can’t comment on his interviews. The Special Olympics reference was in poor taste, and has been removed. Sorry I missed it before.
- Sam McLeanDo you at all think all of the recent fat contracts handed out to the likes of Hill, Rios, Wells and so on is having any type of negative affect on their performance. As in, I’ve arrived, now I don’t have to produce?
MW: Nope.
- CamMr Wilner,
The offense was fine tonight (but not awesome) but most of the time, but when we have a runner(s) in scoring position, it’s so frustrating to not see him score. Also, I don’t think Mr Brantley should’ve been fired because this is just like last year. A struggling offense with decent-awesome pitching. I think the JP/Gibbons watch is on, even though it’s not just to fire them yet.
MW: The offense wasn’t fine, because it’s not just about getting people on base. If you load the bases every inning but don’t score, you haven’t had a fine night at the plate. I agree with you, Mickey Brantley shouldn’t have been fired. Every other member of the coaching staff got a mulligan because of all the injuries.
- gregMr. Wilner,
You’ve said on a few occasions that you think that “something HAS to be up”* with the Blue Jays not bringing Lind up before today’s game. Some people have hinted that it had to do with a potential trade brewing, and others have claimed that the Blue Jays were playing with the numbers in order to avoid Lind from becoming a super-2 player and save some cash in the upcoming years, instead of allowing Lind to become arbitration eligible, and since they are already paying Thomas to play in Oakland, this seems like a dumb thing to do.
I’ve got a possible theory as to why they would hold him back in AAA so as to avoid him being a super-2 player and would like your comments..
Although we have not heard any rumblings of a trade for Lind (or anyone else) right now, it doesn’t mean that the Blue Jays will try and pursue possible trades near the deadline.
With Travis Snider working his way up through the minors, and Wells and Rios signed to long term deals, it seems as if there is one extra player for all 3 spots.
This suggests (at least to me) that one of the trading chips that the Blue Jays have is Adam Lind (unfortunately). With any potential trade partner, it seems as if Adam Lind would have a higher value if he would still have one more year left before he became arbitration eligible.
So, if in fact the Blue Jays brass were paying around with numbers it could possibly be that they did so in order to keep Adam Lind’s potential trade value higher so that if it comes to it they can try to get more for him, or not trade away as many players in order to get what they want, instead of trying to save a few bucks down the road for themselves. In which case, I might not like that it took a few days extra for Lind to be called up, but in the long run, it might be beneficial if those bats start to turn around like everyone expects
I look forward to your comments, keep up the good work on Jays Talk,
*Comments from post 5
MW: It’s an interesting thought, and there’s some merit to it, but it makes no difference. A team that’s trying to win now must use its best players to its best effect without worrying about things like arb eligiblity. Of course, if they trade Lind for Adam Dunn tomorrow, then it was the right move.
- Tersigni